equus

We ended up in the same loop last night - the same loop that leaves me feeling like there is no right answer.

He wanted a drink, he asked why I looked sad, pointed out it was only the second drink in a month..... and round and round we go!

Away from that conversation I've been trying to face my own fears about losing him because they are extreme and it had crossed my mind that I'd have done anything to make the sober times a day or a week longer. I'm grieving for the life I thought we might have when he said he'd stop in October.

All that did, all stopping has done is made him think he can drink. The only way I can let go is to let go completely. He wants me to behave the same when he drinks as I behave when one of my non-alcoholic friends drink and in a way he's right because trying to get everything right is impossible, I know he'll drink anyway.

Last night I wanted a glass of wine so as he isn't stopped, as he isn't asking for help or a dry house I bought a bottle and did what I would do with anyone - offered him a glass, which of course he took!

In between trying not to control, and trying not to enable I've tied myself into a small tight knot. I can't have a glass of wine because I know he'll drink if I do, but then he drinks anyway on another day and that he hasn't had a drink the day/week/month before is the reason, the excuse.

I'm not a big drinker, I wanted a t-total life, but not a t-total life with a drinker, not tying myself tighter into my small tight knot.

I've told him I'm scared, I've told him I'm grieving what I thought we had a chance of, I've told him I can't keep having the same conversation and in a sense get blamed for it as well. I told him if he wants to be treated the same as a non-alcoholic than I'll do my best to do that but I warned him that means he won't have me as his brakes. I also said if it impacts on our lives then I will say something and I asked if there was a level of drinking that he would want me to warn him again - he said only if it got to everynight.

I've also said I'm going to get help, I'm going to see the counsellor in or out of work hours.

He's said it won't get out of hand, he's said he'll control it, he's said he doesn't want to drink that often - just sometimes when he wants to. He's heartbroken that I don't believe he can but determined - VERY determined.

So teach me, and teach me well and quickly. Where are all the lines between control and enabling?

While I learn I will treat him like one of my friends - it's as near to letting go as I can get. I'll set boundaries as and when they are needed but until there's a need I won't do things like refusing to buy a bottle of wine or two when I shop - it's pointless we live five minutes walk from an offlicence!

I'm very frightened but I have been trying to hold this and it isn't mine. I've given it back to him. I love him so much, he's my partner, the left to my right, the up to my down, my sunrise and sunset. The hold I have wouldn't last a lifetime I can either let go now or in ten years time and part of ME needs to see what happens not wait knowing it's round the corner.

I'm so scared because when it takes him it takes him so fast, he loses his sanity, he's nearly lost his life so many times. I don't want to lose him.

minnie

I see the line as being between careing and caretaking. Being there whilst they are trying for themselves v. doing things for others that they can do for themselves (or that professionals can do for/with them).

It is a fine line and took me ages to understand. I always thought that I knew best in terms of what my ex needs to get healthy. I still do, to a certain extent, but I keep those thoughts to myself.

Here's a quote from March 9th in "Language of Letting Go":

"We cannot simultaneously set a boundary and take care of another person's feelings. It's impossible; the two acts contradict. What a tremendous asset to have compassion for others! How difficult that same quality can make it to set boundaries!"

I'm sure I have more input into your questions, but my head is full of jobs I need to do before I move tomorrow. But I'll be back when I get my head together!

Love

Minnie
xxx

equus

Thanks Minnie,

I've told him straight that I'm going to get help with this - I'm not doing this alone or in isolation! I rang the UK drinkline this morning and they gave me the number of the Alcohol Problem Advisory Service that's based in our town. I'm going to ring them at lunch and see what they can offer without a referal, they are supposed to offer counselling to individuals and families but I'm not sure if it costs.

I feel like I'm doing something insane, like I've just decided to let a blind man diffuse a bomb!!

I looked at the Al-Anon 12 steps again through the link here, I know that isn't the answer for me. I spent far too many years as a kid praying, I have no trust left and NO desire to go back to that way of life. I'm not just an aithiest, I want to be an aitheist, when I realised things are the way they are and there's nothing 'out there' I grew and got on with life. The biggest reason I think it would be wrong to join al-anon is that I don't want to work those steps or hold those beliefs. I don't ever intend to trust a higher power, if there is one, based on life's experience I wouldn't trust it with my dog never mind myself or my husband!

siren

Equus-

I could have written your post. My abf also suffers greatly from depression, so for years now it has been a matter of which came first, the chicken (depression) or the egg (alcohol problems). It used to be easy to say that drinking was a just a way of self-medicating for his deep suicidal periods (though all it did was make everything worse-so there's a lot of irony there), or for periods of the blues, or his rages. But now all the lines are blurred.

We go through cycles, where when things are all going well for a while he says the alcohol is a result of the depression, and now that he is feeling better, he should be able to have a glass of wine here and there. And I agree, mostly at first because I believed him, but also because then I could have an occasional glass of wine and not resent him for not being able to have it my own house. Then he manages to get drunk every time he starts with just a glass or two-ends in 15. Then his depression comes back double time.

Right now we are in an up phase. He's going to meeting due to his last blowout ( I don't even have the energy to discuss it), seeing his therapist, etc. But the cycle is still there and I know it's just a matter of time these days before things suck again. I tried a few meetings of al-anon and I wasn't completely comfortable (higher power issues as well), and I may look into counseling-though his is already costing us plenty.

Sorry to hijack your thread, I just wanted to let you know that I identify completely with the trying to watch this person whom you have seen be so destructive with alcohol take a drink and claim it's no big deal and that this time they are in control. For both our sakes, I hope that is true.

Good luck, hang in there.

escape artist

equus-not to get into a debate or anything, but you say you don't believe in a Higher Power than yourself. But you do believe in Love don't you? Wouldn't you say that is a way higher power than You or any of us? the higher power is of your understanding.
i don't want to sound trite but i ran into a passage just last nite-may have been your morning- that definitely rang true to what you are saying. here goes
Courage to Change pg 211

Al-Anon is a spiritual program based on no particular religion, and no religious belief is required. To those of us who have had less than wonderful experiences with religion in the past, this freedom is important. Spirituality doesn't have to imply a particular philosophy or moral code; it simply means that there is a Power greater than ourselves upon which we can come to rely. Whether we call this a Higher Power, God, good orderly direction, Allah, the universe, or another name, it is vital to our recovery that we come to believe in a Power greater than ourselves (Step Two). Until we do, the rest of the Steps will not make much sense.

This Higher Power might be likened to the electricity that operates the lights and machinery of our recovery. It's not necessary to understand what electricity actually is to enjoy its use-all we need to do is turn on the switch!
Today's reminder
I may be seeking a more loving God in whom I can place my trust, or facing a challenge that puts my long-established beliefs to a test, or struggling with the very idea of a Higher Power. Whatever I believe, I can pray for greater faith today. Just that little act of willingness can work miracles.

"When I have at least realized that my problems are too big to solve by myself... I need not be alone with them if I am willing to accept help from a Higher Power"

hope this helps.
p.s. God is Love

equus

Sorry but saying that these don't relate to god is a bit too much like my hubby saying having been a drunk he's now more skilled than anyone at controlling booze!!

I believe in love as a verb and an emotion - not as a mythical being who is capable of protecting anyone.

I've worked with children pimped by their own family at 8 - I guess if I believe there was any entity that could and yet chose not to stop it, I still wouldn't be overwhelmed with trust or praise.


However - The counselling went great!! I have a whole info pack filled with science, facts, and stats which they use to confront and empower drinkers to evaluate their own situation.

D wants to talk about the session tonight so he'll be free to look at them if he wants. I think I've found a great resource that won't entail me getting in the way of the recovery of others - I think at Al-anon the temptation would be to get sidetracked (as demonstrated here), which would serve no-one.

I have great respect for al-anon members, they are looking after themselves and doing something which works for them. I'm on the same side just doing something more likely to work for me!

JessicaNAJ

The only one capable of protecting anyone is us. Think of, as you said, as giving it back to him.

Caring and Caretaking.....

Caretaking:
When I know my AH is capable of doing something but I do it for him b/c I feel it may be too stressful for him to handle.
If AH is sick, I run out to get cold medicine - even if he don't ask for it and then giving it to him b/c I know he'll feel better if he takes it.
He get's his DUI and the first thing I do is call the attorney. Then I call everyone who was involved in this mess to make sure I've covered all his bases.

Caring.
Allowing him the option of how to handle a situation instead of taking over and doing it for him b/c I know the best way to do it.
Allowing him to get his own medicine /or, if he's too sick, wait until he askes me to get it for him instead of "forcing" him to take it.
Allowing him to call his own attorney / so he can directly deal with the consequences of his actions and learn how much of a mess he's made.

I believe that when we care about someone we allow them room to grow on their own without interferring.

On another note.... After a year of working on me, I am noticing I can finally talk to my AH like a human being and not analyzing or condemning everything that comes out of his mouth. For me, treating him like "everyone" else, has taken time and I'm still working on it.

equus

The analyzing bit made me giggle!! I'm a watcher and when words don't match actions I'm always looking for which is really being said!! But then I'm a psych grad and someone in this house has to fit a stereotype!!

He's the one doing the pulling now - his curiosity about where I've been is enflamed!! If he wants to look at the stuff he can - if not he can get on with cooking dinner 'cos I have the mother of all colds!!

jojo

equus -

"Get sidetracked" from what? I don't follow. Could you please explain?

Hugs, Jo

escape artist

love as a verb and emotion- great start. and as a psyc grad would you say that a verb is an action and an emotion- is something generated inside of you? so rather than dismissing a higher power as some mythical creature outside of yourself designed to protect everyone- how about your verb replacing every spot where it says god. now that's called love in action.
or you could look at it like this - your best efforts got you here.
hell try leprechauns- anything- other than trying to carry the world on yourself. (just my opinion)

equus

I'm after knowledge not leprechauns!! I think knowledge defeats fear and I'm working on it!

Jojo,

Off me no longer trying to help and on to god. I thought if I just stated my case - just for me it would avoid that but you know how it is....

escape artist

maybe it was a freudian slip, or a subliminal message that you can't see becoz you're in it. thought that was the advantage of communicating with others.

equus

I'm sorry - I wasn't trying to tread all over everyone's toe's. I just wanted to save anyone the time of replying re al-anon.

I'm not trying to go it alone, it isn't like I'm not getting help. I dunno I just wanted to discuss stuff.

I am sorry

jojo

Equus-

Knowledge of what we are dealing with is so important. It is hard to make good decisions without knowing what we are dealing with. I have always felt that way. Once we are armed with that knowledge we can then move forward in a positive direction.

It is so hard dealing with a loved one with addictions and the mental/emotional issues that seem to go hand in hand. I have never been one that is comfortable with attending Alanon either. This site has been my support group and I am so grateful for the people here. I have learned alot - it helped to save my sanity as my husband's alcoholism progressed to total loss of control.

The biggest thing that I learned was that no matter what I did or tried to do for him, it would never be enough to make him better. NOTHING. Once that fact sunk in I realized that the only thing that I could work on was trying to make my life better. Before that I tried everything I knew to do. I always ended up feeling like I had failed. If I had done this or not done that then he would be better. I thought that since I was a strong capable woman not used to failure that I had to keep trying until I got it right. I accepted responsibility for his actions. Think about that. We are not responsible for another's thoughts or actions and yet we continue to beat our heads against the wall looking for the right thing to do or say. No such actions or words exist.

Terrible things occur in this world. Anyone has to wonder at times if there is a God, how could he let these things happen. We have all prayed for certain things and not gotten an answer. Many of us go through things that no human being should have to endure. The lucky ones are those with strong enduring faith. I envy them.

I guess the point I am trying to make here is that you have placed yourself in a position of trying to control the outcome of your husband's disease and as long as you continue to do that the burden on you will continue to grow and your sense of failure can weigh so heavy on you that you can't see any light in the world. If we can let go of the need to make them better and place it in their hands it gives us some breathing room.

What do you enjoy doing? What makes you happy? Before reuniting with D what was your life like? It is heartbreaking to see someone that we love struggling so hard but this disease, like no other, requires that the person with the disease fight their own battle. Love and support for them can be crucial but ultimately, it is their battle to win or lose.

I hope and, yes, pray, that you find some peace. Your struggle touches all of us. We have all been where you are or are there now and know how you feel. I hope the knowledge of that is a comfort to you.

Big hugs,

Jo

dreamcatcher

Equus,
I can totally relate to what you are saying. For me Alanon was a transitional stepping stone to my way out. It could not be a way of life for me. In the end my higher power had to be me. Alanon helped in the the detaching, stop conrolling part of it, but in the end someone had to be there for me and it was me. I don't have to go it alone but when my AH want to prison for a felony DUI the higher power wasn't going to make my house payment. I couldn't sit back and wait for my higher power to hire an attorney because the women he hit is going to sue. I now treat him like a normal person should be treated and he must suffer his consequences, because what has happened is devastating and I wish it on no one. I had to stop posting because I felt my posts were to harsh as it was difficult for me to watch others ponder and suffer to the inevitable. Listening to the same pain over and over and over. I dealt with it for 23 years and it is time for a change. Don't be sorry, some of us are just silent listeners.

JessicaNAJ

While Al-Anon has worked wonders for many...for some, it's not the program of choice.

YES - we ALL have a choice. Including you Equus. If your choice is to not attend Al-Anon because of your belief's then that is yours.

May I ask you to try something.... because of others opinions (you are obviously aware that many here have sought comfort in the 12 steps) is this / when the mention of Al-Anon comes up, don't take it as a personal option. I think it is just the person responding telling of their situation. Maybe you can choose to "skip over" that word when you read someone's response. Maybe you will get a different message out of that response. (just a thought)

Everyone is different and everyone has different beliefs. You have no reason to be sorry for yours.

equus

I'm much more at peace with this now. His actions haven't been to test it and suggest a drink, I think for a while he did want some help holding the reins (and asked for it) but now it's time for him to take them back.

What will be will be. This is a frightening disease but I know his heart and I know his will is set to fighting it. That doesn't garauntee success but it's a good start.

Funnily enough I think he's more not less nervous to drink - I know he will but he doesn't seem keen. Maybe only having himself to rely on will be the tightest rein of all.

Who knows? But this has prompted me to seek out specific support for alcoholism, not hide that and discuss it - for me that's healthier and important to have in place for the future.

What I wouldn't give for a crystal ball though!!!!!!

gelfling

((((((((((((((((((equus))))))))))))))))