hitting "middle" (or less)--LONG
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: massachusetts
Posts: 103
hitting "middle" (or less)--LONG
Hi,
You guys are great. I read the posts here often and some of you know my story. My AH has caused me much pain during our marriage and I have been detaching (sometimes with love, sometimes unsuccessfully altogether), particularly the last six months. I have also caused myself much pain by being codependent and losing myself in the alcoholism. Detaching is no way to live in a marriage, that's for sure, but for some of us it's all we have at the moment. I often wish I were married to someone who was sober and the rest is secondary.
My AH is in deep denial and has told me he will never stop. A few months ago he stopped for a few days and I was absolutely thrilled at first--of course it didn't last and I have learned from that, and it actually increased my detachment and anger. He angrily staed he'd never give it up when I got hopeful. Well, he hasn't stopped drinking and maybe never will. But, in the last week he has given up the demon scotch and drinks wine and beer occasionally. This is clearly not sobriety or cause for celebration. But a couple of things have changed, maybe only for now, but am looking for some thoughts. Last Sunday we watched the Superbowl (yes, I am from NE) so it was a big deal with many people at his brother's house, his primary drinking buddy. I knew it would be miserable watching him get drunk as this is where he always drinks a lot.
He did, and got very sloppy and obnoxious, making stupid comments. I snapped back once, hated myself for it, but it was obvious he was making a fool of himself and for the first time I almost felt that his family was on my side. A family friend who is very blunt yelled at him twice. He was mortified--this is unusual for anyone to say anything to him. Then he wanted to drive home and argued with me and I iwas furious and insisted. His son watched us-- who I have spoken with about the drinking and driving recently-- and got very aggressive (unusual) with my AH and asked him not to drive for him, as his son. AH was mad but also mortified and barely spoke all the way home. We were going on vacation the next day to a place in the Caribbean that we love. (I wanted to go for my own pleasure more than anything else). Also, he has been nervous lately about my detaching and doing a lot on my own.
He didn't drink scotch the whole trip and we really had a nice time. He was like my old husband but I still felt on my toes and knew he could start anytime. I was calm and told him several times how much I was enjoying his company and our vacation, and we even had some romance which he really wanted in a good way. He did drink the wine and beer but not much at all, which just made the trip pleasant. I also said he seemed happier when he's not drinking scotch. (yes, he was drinking anyway! ) I was afraid to overdo it in a beautiful, romantic setting! He said again that he wasn't going to give up scotch. but this time there was no anger and he said, well, maybe not never. He was as gentle and wonderful as I've seen him in years. To those of you with A's in sobriety or near it this may be nothing, but my AH is 57 years old and is liberal in every way but admitting his problem. So, last night his son picks us up at the airport, AH announces he's had no scotch since Superbowl and son says good for you. In the past this would have met with teasing, like oh you're kidding...this was a big deal to me. We then pick up the dog at his brother's, who pours him a scotch. Also told brother he didn't drink on vacation,, I gave brother a hopeful look (stupid), but brother was useless. AH drank it, I knew it would happen at brother's. Why hope??? Well now today no scotch, one glass of wine, and he says he doesn't want the scotch. (today, I know) Why hope, again???? This is a man who drinks 5-10 scotches every day. The longest he's ever gone. How can I possibly encourage him not to let brother get to him if this continues? Keep my mouth shut? Too premature?
So I have read many posts here about codie behavior and how to act "properly". Tonight I said well, I think it affects you physically and maybe makes you feel sick. He is looking for approval. I don't know what to say!!!!! I know I can't make him stop!! I don't want to overdo it. No defensive, angry responses yet. So tomorrow he may drink 10 scotches, maybe 20 to make up, I know. In the meantime this is the most hope I've ever had and I want to handle it well. If he goes back maybe it is at least a step...and he may get to the point again someday??. I am continuing my own stuff, not focusing on him but not detaching as much. Can't win I guess. He is still drinking--that would be another issue if he stops scotch. We have many problems in the marriage related to the alcoholism. Any hope of sobriety would not make them go away. I am not kidding myself. Yet I see this as MAYBE a fraction of the first Step.????
If I post again that he is back to square one, at least I'll have some good info to store away. I am reading my Alanon and Toby Rice Drews books.
Sorry this is so long! Patience is much appreciated!
You guys are great. I read the posts here often and some of you know my story. My AH has caused me much pain during our marriage and I have been detaching (sometimes with love, sometimes unsuccessfully altogether), particularly the last six months. I have also caused myself much pain by being codependent and losing myself in the alcoholism. Detaching is no way to live in a marriage, that's for sure, but for some of us it's all we have at the moment. I often wish I were married to someone who was sober and the rest is secondary.
My AH is in deep denial and has told me he will never stop. A few months ago he stopped for a few days and I was absolutely thrilled at first--of course it didn't last and I have learned from that, and it actually increased my detachment and anger. He angrily staed he'd never give it up when I got hopeful. Well, he hasn't stopped drinking and maybe never will. But, in the last week he has given up the demon scotch and drinks wine and beer occasionally. This is clearly not sobriety or cause for celebration. But a couple of things have changed, maybe only for now, but am looking for some thoughts. Last Sunday we watched the Superbowl (yes, I am from NE) so it was a big deal with many people at his brother's house, his primary drinking buddy. I knew it would be miserable watching him get drunk as this is where he always drinks a lot.
He did, and got very sloppy and obnoxious, making stupid comments. I snapped back once, hated myself for it, but it was obvious he was making a fool of himself and for the first time I almost felt that his family was on my side. A family friend who is very blunt yelled at him twice. He was mortified--this is unusual for anyone to say anything to him. Then he wanted to drive home and argued with me and I iwas furious and insisted. His son watched us-- who I have spoken with about the drinking and driving recently-- and got very aggressive (unusual) with my AH and asked him not to drive for him, as his son. AH was mad but also mortified and barely spoke all the way home. We were going on vacation the next day to a place in the Caribbean that we love. (I wanted to go for my own pleasure more than anything else). Also, he has been nervous lately about my detaching and doing a lot on my own.
He didn't drink scotch the whole trip and we really had a nice time. He was like my old husband but I still felt on my toes and knew he could start anytime. I was calm and told him several times how much I was enjoying his company and our vacation, and we even had some romance which he really wanted in a good way. He did drink the wine and beer but not much at all, which just made the trip pleasant. I also said he seemed happier when he's not drinking scotch. (yes, he was drinking anyway! ) I was afraid to overdo it in a beautiful, romantic setting! He said again that he wasn't going to give up scotch. but this time there was no anger and he said, well, maybe not never. He was as gentle and wonderful as I've seen him in years. To those of you with A's in sobriety or near it this may be nothing, but my AH is 57 years old and is liberal in every way but admitting his problem. So, last night his son picks us up at the airport, AH announces he's had no scotch since Superbowl and son says good for you. In the past this would have met with teasing, like oh you're kidding...this was a big deal to me. We then pick up the dog at his brother's, who pours him a scotch. Also told brother he didn't drink on vacation,, I gave brother a hopeful look (stupid), but brother was useless. AH drank it, I knew it would happen at brother's. Why hope??? Well now today no scotch, one glass of wine, and he says he doesn't want the scotch. (today, I know) Why hope, again???? This is a man who drinks 5-10 scotches every day. The longest he's ever gone. How can I possibly encourage him not to let brother get to him if this continues? Keep my mouth shut? Too premature?
So I have read many posts here about codie behavior and how to act "properly". Tonight I said well, I think it affects you physically and maybe makes you feel sick. He is looking for approval. I don't know what to say!!!!! I know I can't make him stop!! I don't want to overdo it. No defensive, angry responses yet. So tomorrow he may drink 10 scotches, maybe 20 to make up, I know. In the meantime this is the most hope I've ever had and I want to handle it well. If he goes back maybe it is at least a step...and he may get to the point again someday??. I am continuing my own stuff, not focusing on him but not detaching as much. Can't win I guess. He is still drinking--that would be another issue if he stops scotch. We have many problems in the marriage related to the alcoholism. Any hope of sobriety would not make them go away. I am not kidding myself. Yet I see this as MAYBE a fraction of the first Step.????
If I post again that he is back to square one, at least I'll have some good info to store away. I am reading my Alanon and Toby Rice Drews books.
Sorry this is so long! Patience is much appreciated!
Ugh!
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Enchanted Elmoland
Posts: 180
Hey Rara,
It's wonderful that you had a nice romantic vacation and in the Caribbean! I loved visiting the parts there that I have had the opportunity to see, and when I was there my AH didn't stop for a second the drinking to enjoy my company. For me it was beautiful but I felt very alone there. I did learn however, the lesson that wherever ya go, there ya are. I suppose I should have learned that a long time ago.
I believe all of us have had these glimpses of what could be, or why would we hang on? Of course you want better for him, and it's wonderful that his son and family (except the brother) are backing you on letting him know when he cannot drive etc. Sounds to me like you understand that even without the drinking there are still issues, yup you are not kidding yourself and a lot of us, myself included, like to think that ONLY IF they would stop the drinking all would be fine.
I'm not sure I understand the detachment thing yet, I don't understand how you can completely detach from someone you love when you see them hurting themselves. I guess the issue is that you don't let it effect you, and when you get to the place where you know you have no control over them, you know and are numbed to the fact that they will continue to drink regardless of your actions. You have to detach from the outcomes of what they are doing. I guess?! Anyway, you sound like you are taking this in the most healthy way possible.
I don't know if he's taken a fraction of the first step or not, but to me it sounds like you have taken that first step for yourself to heart for sure. I kind of skipped that one and went right on to the second step. Thanks for making me look at that.
HUGS!
~FaithChaser
It's wonderful that you had a nice romantic vacation and in the Caribbean! I loved visiting the parts there that I have had the opportunity to see, and when I was there my AH didn't stop for a second the drinking to enjoy my company. For me it was beautiful but I felt very alone there. I did learn however, the lesson that wherever ya go, there ya are. I suppose I should have learned that a long time ago.
I believe all of us have had these glimpses of what could be, or why would we hang on? Of course you want better for him, and it's wonderful that his son and family (except the brother) are backing you on letting him know when he cannot drive etc. Sounds to me like you understand that even without the drinking there are still issues, yup you are not kidding yourself and a lot of us, myself included, like to think that ONLY IF they would stop the drinking all would be fine.
I'm not sure I understand the detachment thing yet, I don't understand how you can completely detach from someone you love when you see them hurting themselves. I guess the issue is that you don't let it effect you, and when you get to the place where you know you have no control over them, you know and are numbed to the fact that they will continue to drink regardless of your actions. You have to detach from the outcomes of what they are doing. I guess?! Anyway, you sound like you are taking this in the most healthy way possible.
I don't know if he's taken a fraction of the first step or not, but to me it sounds like you have taken that first step for yourself to heart for sure. I kind of skipped that one and went right on to the second step. Thanks for making me look at that.
HUGS!
~FaithChaser
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: massachusetts
Posts: 103
Faithchaser,
I appreciate your reply. In the light of day I feel sort of foolish writing that long post about what is probably a short, temporary respite. It is amazing and sad how such a small thing to others seems like such a big deal to me.
I expected my vacation to involve plenty of drinking, so it was wonderful to have a break in such a lovely place!! I know what you mean about enjoying it but also being alone, this has happened to me plenty. It also reinforces how much his family (some) encourages his drinking, like an automatic button. Just found out AH is going to Florida in March with family members, for Spring training (yes, Red Sox
, it has been quite a year for us!). I am a big fan but can't bear the thought of 5 days of drinking with his brother---and my miserable SD is coming, that is another awful issue altogether). My parents are in Florida for the winter so that is my out for most of it, if I go at all. They love my AH but are a great support to me about the problem and always treat him with respect, which is hard for them. BTW, he never gets drunk around my family so they only see his good side.
Detachment is something I can't do well. I usually end up withdrawing quite a bit to get away from the drinking. AH knows this and it bothers him but doesn't stop him!! Anyway, I like what you said about detachment. It is accepting it but detaching from the outcome...I have been doing that but it is so lonely. You do feel so alone when they choose the bottle even when you know it is a given. Numbness is all you can do. Hope is dangerous...I know that. Yet I want to handle this respite well...not be controlling or gleeful! It's like a job with no benefits!
I am still on the first Step myself. Can't get to the second for long. I'm glad you can, which also makes me think! I wish I could get there! Thanks!
For Valentines day we are going out to dinner--maybe I'll get one more night without scotch!
Happy V day, a peaceful day to all.
I appreciate your reply. In the light of day I feel sort of foolish writing that long post about what is probably a short, temporary respite. It is amazing and sad how such a small thing to others seems like such a big deal to me.
I expected my vacation to involve plenty of drinking, so it was wonderful to have a break in such a lovely place!! I know what you mean about enjoying it but also being alone, this has happened to me plenty. It also reinforces how much his family (some) encourages his drinking, like an automatic button. Just found out AH is going to Florida in March with family members, for Spring training (yes, Red Sox
, it has been quite a year for us!). I am a big fan but can't bear the thought of 5 days of drinking with his brother---and my miserable SD is coming, that is another awful issue altogether). My parents are in Florida for the winter so that is my out for most of it, if I go at all. They love my AH but are a great support to me about the problem and always treat him with respect, which is hard for them. BTW, he never gets drunk around my family so they only see his good side.Detachment is something I can't do well. I usually end up withdrawing quite a bit to get away from the drinking. AH knows this and it bothers him but doesn't stop him!! Anyway, I like what you said about detachment. It is accepting it but detaching from the outcome...I have been doing that but it is so lonely. You do feel so alone when they choose the bottle even when you know it is a given. Numbness is all you can do. Hope is dangerous...I know that. Yet I want to handle this respite well...not be controlling or gleeful! It's like a job with no benefits!
I am still on the first Step myself. Can't get to the second for long. I'm glad you can, which also makes me think! I wish I could get there! Thanks!
For Valentines day we are going out to dinner--maybe I'll get one more night without scotch!
Happy V day, a peaceful day to all.
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