Conversation with an addict

Old 01-08-2005, 10:28 AM
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Caring for the 3 little bears
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Conversation with an addict

Why did I even get involved in a conversation?

AH was released from two days in a rehab unit for detoxing from methadone and alcohol withdrawal. This conversation happened on his first day back out...

AH - "I'm calling to let you know what I accomplished today. I went to the methadone clinic and they are going to start me on ___ mg. daily. I will go there every day, except Sunday. There is a $10 copay every time"

ME - "So, are you going to keep your appointment with the Physiologist (phiz-ee-awl-oh-gist - a physical rehab doctor)"

AH - "Yes, i need all the help I can get, but I am not seeing him to get on methadone"

ME - "You told me three weeks ago after meeting with primary care physician that she would not give you methadone and recommended a physiolgist - so, isn't it true that you are seeing him to get methadone?"

AH - "His card says he is a pain doctor, let me get his card and I will read it to you"

ME - "I thought you weren't in pain - You told me since they removed your artificial hip, several months ago, you weren't in pain anymore"

AH - "I'm not in pain"

ME - "then why are you going to a doctor for pain"

AH - "Well, i could save $10 copays"

ME - "so, then you ARE going to see him about getting on methadone"

AH - "I DON't KNOW WHAT I AM SEEING HIM FOR! I HAVE THE APPOINTMENT, SO I AM GOING TO GO SEE WHAT HE SAYS"

This conversaton went on for about 30 minutes. There was crying on his part, he just wants to be drug and alcohol free, that is his goal, he told the methadone clinic that and he has an appointment on Monday with a counselor at the methadone clinic, and he will tell the physiologist on the 11th, and "you don't understand that alcohol is nothing compared to methadone, its like you fall in love with it....I can handle staying off alcohol, but this stuff is BAD" (WHAT???) quack quack quack - let's see, he has had three 5-10 days alcohol binges in the past 14 weeks. When I say binge, I mean non-stop drinking - drinking where you are vomiting for days. drinking where you have bags of vomit laying around your dingy hotel/apt.

This is a guy who has had a hip infection for two years. And he continues to abuse his body with drugs and alcohol. I know, that was a silly comment, he is an addict and this is what addicts do.

Now, do I call the physiolgists office and tell them he has started a program with the methadone clinic? Or do I just stay out of it, and if this addict dies, there is nothing I can/could/should/would do about it?

So, back to my original question...

Why did I even get involved in a conversation?
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Old 01-08-2005, 11:29 AM
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Why? Because you still care. You care because it is still another human being. And you don't want him to die, because you are afraid that he will die. And it hurts. And you aren't sure what you should/could/can/would do about it.

That is what I see when I read your posts. But that's just my opinion which has been known to be wrong sometimes.

What should you do? Step back a min. and take a deep breath and then another. Then think about the whole thing. Think about what you are feeling. Think about what do you WANT to do. Not what you are expected to do or you think you should do. But what do YOU want to do about it?

Hugs and Prayers
B
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Old 01-08-2005, 02:27 PM
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Wraybear, I agree with frankly. All of those reasons is why. And to add to it ~ possibly because you have a connection with this man due to marriage (dont know how religious you are but the vows can be pretty binding to someone who takes them to heart) and children. It's probably the hardest thing to do to turn your back on someone in need. But remember that is why we got where we were before recovery. I wouldn't get in between him and the doctor. Chances are he will have bloodwork done, and they will find out, or at least be in touch with his primary physician who will reveal that info. I do not for one second say I understand your situation, because I haven't been in this one. But I do say that I think you are wasting your energy worrying about what you can do for him. As painful as it is, (and easier said than done) I think you need to let him suffer his own consequences. He sees you breaking and thinks you are going to come to his rescue. You have to stand strong for you and your children. If I could come there and hug you I would! My thoughts and prayers are with you.

Blessings,
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Old 01-08-2005, 04:42 PM
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He's playing you. Stand back and stay the course. If he needs emergency help, he can call an ambulance for the emergency room.
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Old 01-08-2005, 07:54 PM
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Now, do I call the physiolgists office and tell them he has started a program with the methadone clinic? Or do I just stay out of it, and if this addict dies, there is nothing I can/could/should/would do about it?
Oh my goodness, what mess. I can see why you're so torn and why you just can't figure out the right way to handle this situation. On the one hand, you would be an enabler to help him through this latest crisis, but on the other hand, due to his active addiction, he's in no shape mentally, emotionally, or physically to handle the situation himself and make sound decisions on his own.

So, basically you're torn between deciding what's the right thing to do for your husband and what's the best thing to do for yourself. My alcoholic boyfriend has been drinking for 40 years. Before he joined AA a month ago, his disease had progressed to a point where he was almost never sober. It took a terrible toll on his health and a terrible toll on my family.

If you recall, we had been dating for 22 years but until the last 2 years, we maintained separate homes. Well, about 2 months after moving in with me he began to lose weight rapidly--85 pounds in about 3 months to be exact. He is 6' tall and his normal weight is 225. Now he was weighing in at around 140. I suspected diabetes, but he refused to go to the doctor. After urging him to get help for months, one day he became so weak that he couldn't walk up the two steps from the garage into our house.

I felt like I was watching him kill himself. I knew I shouldn't interfere and I should let him fall, but I also couldn't step back and watch someone who was now incapable of taking care of himself die. So I made him a doctor's appointment and stopped at the doctor's office on the way to work the next morning and said, "Get out. You have a doctor's appointment and I'm not taking you to work until you go." Just as I suspected, he was diagnosed with diabetes--diabetes brought on by his alcoholism I later learned. Alcohol inhibits the pancreas' ability to produce insulin, so the combination of alcoholism and diabetes is a nasty one. He began to take insulin and was warned to stop drinking. Of course, he couldn't do that. So, because he was still actively drinking his doctor was unable to stabilize his sugar. He also refused to change his diet and his health continued to decline.

Then one morning when I got up for work I found him sleeping on the couch. He was sweating profusely, so I took the blanket off of him, only to find that he had urinated all over himself and the couch. I tried to wake him up, but he was unresponsive. I called 911 and told them I thought he was in diabetic shock. Paramedics arrived and found his sugar way too low. They administered a dose of glucacon and he quickly came around. You'd think this would be wake-up call, but he didn't change his behavior.

A few weeks later his ankles began to swell. I warned him that this is a sign of congestive heart failure (also caused by long-term alcoholism) and he should make an appointment with his doctor. Again, he refused. Without medical help, he began to retain so much fluid that he could no longer bend his legs. Excess fluid was building up around his heart and he was constantly out of breath and becoming increasingly weak. When it got to the point where he could hardly walk without assistance, once again, I made him a doctor's appointment and stoped in front of the building and said, "Get out. I've made you an appointment."

The doctor sent him immediately to a cardiologist, who sent us immediately to the emergency room. He was treated, given medications for congestive heart failure and fluid retention, and released. Another close call.

Think that was enough? No way. He continued to drink, so his diabetes continued to take a toll on him. He was urinating constantly, drinking huge amounts of water, and he was becoming very weak and unsteady. I begged him to go back to the doctor but he refused. So, you know the drill. I made a doctor's appointment for him and said, "Get out. I've made you a doctor's appointment." The doctor took his blood sugar. It was 800!!! Once again, we rushed to the ER, they were able to stabilize him.

Now, the question is was I being an enabler and should I have let him fall on his own? Or was I helping someone who was so lost in his addiction that he could no longer take care of himself? This weighed very heavy on my mind, as it is now weighing heavy on your mind. I did alot of soul-searching. Was I doing the right thing by getting him medical attention or would it be better to let him handle the situation, even if his way of handling it was not to handle it at all?

One evening when I was at my wits end, I tearfully prayed for guidance. And the strangest thing happened. I felt an amazing feeling of warmth come over me and I had the strangest feeling that I was being hugged. And then I received my answer: "Do whatever you feel is necessary, so that if your boyfriend were to succumb to his addiction, that you will feel certain that you did everything in your power to help him." Is that codie behavior? Could be. But is it really codie behavior to help someone who's addiction has made him mentally, physically, and emotionally unable to help himself? That's what you have to decide.

My advice to you is forget whether it's codie behavior or not, ask your HP for guidance and then do whatever you feel is right. Great big hugs to you, Wraybear.
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Old 01-08-2005, 08:26 PM
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FormerDoormat: Wow! What a wonderful story. And these are my feelings exactly. Thanks so much for sharing this. I hope Wraybear finds guidance in your wisdom and experience.
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Old 01-08-2005, 08:32 PM
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Caring for the 3 little bears
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WOW! thanks you guys. I really did start to jump in the other day when the hospital was going to release him after less than 48 hours. But, when he makes comments that make me realize he is just "playing" another game, that reinforces the fact that I need to stay out. Now of course, if I thought he was on his death bed, I would call an ambulance, but he won't kill himself in my house or around my children. That is one boundary I will not break.

I have thought about calling him sometime in the next few days, and saying, very matter of factly, "since you have had two close calls with death recently, we need to talk about where you want to be buried, and what are your thoughts on what I should tell the children?" Just wondering if he has REALLY TRULY REALIZED he is going to die if he doesn't do something. Maybe he has, and he doesn't care.

I do feel I have done everything I can. I have spent the last 8 years, helping him find Christian AA, encouraging him to teach AA meetings, seek therapists, seek new doctors when old doctors aren't working (like having a hip infection for 1 1/2 years before they decide to remove artificial hip!) But, now I just have to stay in the background and if the need arises, call an ambulance, I guess, that really is all I can do anymore. (Although, I did pay his car insurance today! Which, I do need to get that changed!)

I don't mean to make light of this, i do believe it was a very serious situation, and I believe if he doesn't stop, there will be another very serious situation again. But, there truly is nothing I can do. I wish I could drop him off at a rehab clinic and kick him out of the car and say I made a 30-day appointment for you, but no one will take him because of this infection. That is probably part of God's plan anyway, maybe he needs to get the infection taken care of first, but, if he is abusing his body with drugs and alcohol, blah blah blah blah.

FD, oh my gosh! That is a horrible story, but a great ending! You are happy with the final result! But geez, how can someone truly not care at all about their health? Do you think they really don't care if they live or die? what the heck is wrong with these people? Has the alcohol just given them so much brain damage, they just don't think at all? What is the deal?
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Old 01-08-2005, 08:36 PM
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I think Former Doormat has the nail on the head. You don't have to have perfect answers, all you can do is what you 'feel' you should. You need to be healthy for all the years to come in the knowledge that you made the decsions 'to the best of YOUR wisdom' - no-one manages perfect.
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Old 01-08-2005, 08:38 PM
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I think their addiction is just so great that there comes a point where they can't even help themselves. I think this kind of deep addiction is much more than just being in denial.
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Old 01-09-2005, 11:10 AM
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First a little background, my dad was alcoholic, my brother is a heroin addict (currently on a legal methadone program, his addict wife committed suicide because of her addiction), my brother in law is an alcoholic and my 20 something year old son is an alcoholic/addict (currently in recovery).

I don't wish to be argumentative, but I do have another point of view. If you, as a non-addict, but co-dependent, trust for one minute your "feelings" in these situations you are making a grave, grave mistake. They will get you and the addict/alcoholic in trouble and/or delay the recovery process for you and the addict every time.

The instinct for survival that God planted in each one of us is very, very strong. You have to be willing to trust in it and trust in Him.

The facts are these and here is reality: the vast majority of addicts, if the disease is not arrested, end up in one of three places -- jail, an institution, or dead. Until the addict/alcoholic hits their rock botton, they can be prepared for sobriety, but they will not change and the instinct to survive will not be triggered. Once triggered, the individual has a very, very significant and personal choice to make -- do I want to live or do I want to die.

We can worry ourselves silly and let our lives be ruined and wasted, or we can chose another route -- for ourselves and others that depend upon us.

Playing the "softy" in these matters does not work, or at least it never, ever worked for me.
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Old 01-09-2005, 01:54 PM
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Hi Wray--Some really good advice here--Dormat said it well and everyone has very useful information. I'd like to tell you one more story. I worked with a gal I'll call Li.
I did not realize how bad here drinking was untill her husband was diagnosed with
lung cancer. I became involved helping her and her AH with Dr.s hospitol etc. Before
he died he ask me to please take care of Li. Silly me I should have run for the hills.
Withen days her eyes turned yellow and her skin was yellow and in general looked
dead. Took her to a Gastronologist--He said you will die if you continue to drink. She
went to the bar told everyone how funny the whole thing was and proceded to get
drunk. A few days later she called me to sick to get up (needed vodka) when I got
there I loaded her in my car and took straight to ER. The DR. was like you should be dead her heart rate was so high he couldn't believe it. After 7-8 days in the hospital
I took her home (her home that I had cleaned and emptied of vodka) she stayed dry
for maybe 3 days. Silly girl thought I was stupid. She would go to the bar and after
a few she would run her mouth about how if she wanted to drink herself to death it
was her decision. Of course the bar buddies felt it was important to tell me what she
had to say. I ask her once and she fessed up and begged for forgiveness. Few days
later same story. I gave up--that was 5 years ago and she is still drinking and crying
on someone elses shoulder. The whole point is I think that As think they are invinceable they don't want to die but they don't realize how close they are. You
should only do what you have to do for yourself. In other words weigh your decisions
based on how you will feel about yourself if the worst happens. To me this is not about being cody it's about being a caring human being. Trust your HP and all of
us who are praying for you. Love and Smiles--Dee
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Old 01-09-2005, 02:20 PM
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Everyone, thanks for your replies. I do believe I have done EVERYTHING and ANYTHING possible for this guy.

I do believe there is a problem with our medical system though, and the wall between mental health and physical health needs to be broken down a bit.

Bobb,
Are you saying my AH's instinct for survival is very very strong? I don't know if it is. I think the drugs and alcohol have made this instinct defective, just like FormerDoormat's and Dee's post above. He almost died 3 years ago in a car accident. Was intubated in helicopter, was on ventilator for 4 weeks and in hospital for 2 1/2 months. Yet, he continues to drink and now has a narcotics addiction as well. So, i wonder if death IS HIS BOTTOM.

I spoke to him today and asked him where he wanted to be buried. Without hesitation, he said, I've been thinking about that... I'd like to buried next to you, so where do you want to be buried? But don't spend a lot of money, I don't need anything fancy.

By the way, my instincts tell me to run, run as fast as I can. I have considered calling old co-workers who are in different states now to see if they have job openings in my field of expertise, one is in Phoenix, which sounds pretty darn good, after being in this 5 degree weather and ice storm!

I do have instincts telling me to call these doctors to let them know HE IS AN ADDICT... don't give him anymore pain medication!

I do have motherly instincts wanting a father for my children, therefore I think I keep hanging on to my faith and trust in God, to heal this man. But, God knows best, and if he dies, I must trust that it is all part of God's plan. It is very hard for me to think that God would want me to raise these children without their father. I think that is probably the main reason I feel stuck. And, I have seen a counselor at our church who among others at church, highly disagree with divorce. One person suggested we just live apart for the rest of our lives and not get divorced. I refuse to do that one!

I am starting to ramble, so I will close for now. Thank you so much for your time, prayers, concerns, posts. It has helped me so much. I feel so much stronger today than yesterday!

Last edited by wraybear; 01-09-2005 at 08:17 PM.
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Old 01-09-2005, 04:04 PM
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Live apart but don't get a divorce--that's what I'm doing right now. My AH doesn't
want a divorce and I'm not sure I care one way or the other. Divorce is probably the best plan though since I do not intend to stay out here in the bushes much longer.
In fact I plan to put this place on the market in 4-6 weeks. Maybe that's why the AH is pulling out all the stops. Obviously I'm to mentally impaired to make a dicision about
where I live.LOL-Lets talk soon--Love Dee
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Old 01-09-2005, 04:17 PM
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Rest peacefully Sonny Boy
 
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wraybear - It sounds like you really have a handle on this. Let go and let God.

Love and Hugs to you.

B
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Old 01-09-2005, 08:24 PM
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Dee, I have always thought you sounded a little crazy! lol

My post and your earlier post must have been posted right at the same time, because I just saw your story about your co-worker. Surprised she is still alive 5 years later. But that gets me to thinking... For some reason I have convinced myself that if my AH doesn't stop, he will die soon. It hasn't crossed my mind that this could go on for another year, or two or five or ten! I guess because he, in my mind, was so close to death last week.

I appreciate all your sharing! Isn't it amazing how I always get something out of each and every post. Somebody is looking out for me!!! You guys are awesome.
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