Be Careful What You Wish For???

Old 12-31-2004, 12:22 PM
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Be Careful What You Wish For???

First of all, my husband is NOT sober. I do not expect he ever will be. But I've had a revelation, of sorts...

In the beginning (a long, long time ago), I carried around the belief that I could change my alcoholic -- that he would stop drinking if I cried enough, yelled enough, threatened enough... Of course, I was wrong. I didn't know any better.

So the years have come and gone, and I have worked on myself. I worked on ways to deal with the situation and to find peace in "my world." For the most part, I have succeeded. I have managed to accept that this is the way it is. No if's, and's or but's... this is it. Life with an A in a nutshell. It really is that simple.

For more than 15 years, I have prayed and hoped for his sobriety. Just when I thought I had it all figured out... after reading many posts, I have come to the conclusion that I STILL don't know any better. It appears that, with sobriety, comes a whole host of new problems that I would have to face and learn to accept. I've read stories of AA infidelities, the alcoholic asking for a divorce, alcoholics moving out, broken marriages, broken hearts, the alcoholic never being home because of daily and nightly meetings, the alcoholic shutting out his family, the alcoholic trading in one addiction for another... and I have to ask myself... is his sobriety what I really want???? Is it accurate to say that AA saves souls -- not marriages?

Perhaps I feel more comfortable with the way things are now. I always know what to expect. I've learned to deal with it -- the "tricks of the trade," so to speak. I'm 52 years old. I have shared my life with him through his disease for more than 15 years. Yet, if I finally get what I've wished for, he may walk out of my life? What a slap in the face. What a cruel turn of events. Here, on the doorstep of my "golden" years and retirement, I have to face the possibility that I could enter these years alone? This is what my life could amount to? This is the choice that I made when I said "I do" at age 37? What a revelation.

Are those of you out there reading this, going to respond to this post saying, "You should rejoice in the possibility of his sobriety... for the sake of his health... his salvation... you should love him enough to want this for him... it's selfish for you to want anything less for him...?" Of course I want sobriety for him -- but at what price to ME? What would his sobriety cost ME? Is this a fair question? Is this what they mean whey they say, "Be careful what you wish for"?
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Old 12-31-2004, 12:35 PM
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I understand and hear you- my worst fear is that I will leave my AH then he will get sober and live a happy "normal" life with someone other than me. So would I rather him be drunk and stay with me than sober without me??? I really don't know- that's part of my sickness. My AH is sober almost a month now- things have been wonderful (for the most part), I know all about paying "the price"for your AH- at what point does it stop becoming all about them. I don't have answers and I suspect I never will. i am just trying to survive- be somewhat happy- and live a life
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Old 12-31-2004, 05:45 PM
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Hi there, hope :-)

Originally Posted by hope2bhappy
... It appears that, with sobriety, comes a whole host of new problems that I would have to face and learn to accept. I've read stories of AA infidelities, the alcoholic asking for a divorce...
I've been active in AA for 24 years, and I've witnessed many of those stories you have read about. However, I have witnessed those _outside_ of AA just as much as inside. In my experience, it's not that with _sobriety_ you get a whole host of new problems. It's that _life_ brings those problems whether people are in the program or not.

Originally Posted by hope2bhappy
... Is it accurate to say that AA saves souls -- not marriages?
Neither of those are correct. AA does _not_ save souls, nor does it save marriages. What AA does is provide the tools with which an individual can save their own soul, and save their own marriage. Or not. It's up to the individual what they want to do with their life.

Originally Posted by hope2bhappy
... I have shared my life with him through his disease for more than 15 years. Yet, if I finally get what I've wished for, he may walk out of my life?
Life offers no gurantees. There's any number of misfortunes that can happen completely independent of his drinking, or his sobriety.

Originally Posted by hope2bhappy
... Of course I want sobriety for him -- but at what price to ME? What would his sobriety cost ME? Is this a fair question?
Absolutely a fair question. The answer to that question can not be known in advance. What you _can_ do is protect yourself from the worst, and prepare yourself for whatever life may throw your way. The best way to do that is to join a program of recovery for _you_. Whether it be Al-Anon, or CODA, or whatever. That way, no matter what he does, sober or not, you will be able to survive and overcome.

Whadya think?

Mike :-)
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Old 12-31-2004, 07:27 PM
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What you have done is accept what is and that is so important. The "why" doesn't really matter because I am betting you will cycle through this and on to another kind of acceptance. Our own recovery is a journey not a destination. Just like the alcoholic we are not unique either. You are seeing things...parts of the disease...that you never encountered before and yes, that can be unsettling. You are learning that sobriety may not be the quick fix that you thought it would be. That is part of the process in your own growth.

My husband also still drinks but I don't fear the change that his sobriety could cause. I have gained the faith to know that whatever happens I will not die from it. I no longer hang my hat on what he does or does not do. Even if he got sober and left, found someone else or left me alone while attending nightly meetings, I have a life of my own and I will be ok.

You will be ok, too.
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Old 12-31-2004, 09:09 PM
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I'm wondering why you're fretting over something that is yet to be or may never be. No one can predict the future so it's futile to waste engery projecting what the future may hold. The only thing you can do is focus on what's happening in your life today.

I've seen many of the posts you've described above and based on those posts, it's fair to say that the outcome of sobriety depends on the individual. There's no telling which direction your AH may take when or if he reaches sobriety. You can try to hypothesize how he may behave based on his current behavior, but since he's still an active alcoholic it would be impossible to project what choices he might make once he's no longer under the influence of alcohol and can think clearly and behave responsibly.

The best thing we can do for ourselves is to live for today and continue to work towards our recovery so that whatever life throws us in the future we're healthy enough to make the right choices.
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Old 01-01-2005, 06:03 AM
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Hope2BHappy -- My husband is currently living with another woman who he met in rehab two months ago, and i have filed for divorce. This follows years of dealing with his infidelity and lies. This is not what i had in mind in terms of us when he became sober. It's been very painful for me, but with the help of this website and Al-Anon meetings, I have come to grips with the fact that I am a much better person right now, and my life will be better without him. We have been together for 16 years but that doesn't seem to matter at all to him. He gave all that up for somebody younger than him, who he's only known for a couple months. What can i do? I can't change his way of thinking. He needs to work this out on his own and if he feels he needs to be with somebody else who understands his disease better than i do, so be it. It's his loss. I didn't realize the problems sobriety could bring to me, but knowing that his disease has caused him to live in a clouded world all this time, he was never really himself. Now he is (i think?). I'd love for things to go back to the way they were, meaning the happy wonderful times (and there were many). But i could never trust him again after the way he left me like this. He calls me occasionally and we chat. He still calls me honey and sweetie, which confuses the heck out of me. He seems to be happier, but it's hard to tell with him.

hang in there, i will be thinking of you and others who have experienced the painful side of sobriety.
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Old 01-01-2005, 06:19 AM
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It is so hard for me to understand... to deal with. My husband is 67 days sober and we are "temporarily" separated. Why? All the time and energy I put into dealing with our family and the issues his alcoholism created. And now that he's sober, he leaves. I almost wish he were still drinking, at least I knew how to deal with that. Ten years are going down the drain because he was "clouded" during that time and now he says he doesn't know if he meant any of it. I said to him... what about our marriage vows? Do they not mean anything? He said I was drinking and/or drunk at the wedding!!! Who says things like that? That is so selfish.
I am so confused by the situation. I do not feel that AA has any consideration of the family unit - it is be sober that's it. You sobriety is what matters - that's it. What about the rest of the world? Don't we matter? He told me I was a trigger and that he thinks that being around me will in time cause him to drink. So he has to be away from me... It's just not right. What do you do? What do you say? I know I have healing to do.... but do we need to be separated or get a divorce for us to heal? Why is AA and his AA friends the only thing that matters to him? And why can't he see it?
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Old 01-01-2005, 08:02 AM
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Hello sandi,

I'm sorry to hear you're in the same boat with the rest of us. My AW of 19yrs is bailing, and very busy with several younger guys.

Originally Posted by sandiphoto
... I do not feel that AA has any consideration of the family unit ...
The foundation of AA, and all the other 12 step programs that derive from it, is the book "Alcoholics Anonymous" published by A.A. World Services Inc. Chapter 8 of this book addresses the spouse of the alcoholic, and Chapter 9 addresses the family. The program of recovery of AA spends a great deal of time on correcting the harm that alcoholics do to those who love them.

Most private recovery centers have extensive family treatment programs, led by certified marriage counselors or therapists. Running around with some young thing and _increasing_ the wreckage of our lives is very much against AA principles.

Originally Posted by sandiphoto
... It's just not right. What do you do? What do you say? I know I have healing to do.... but do we need to be separated or get a divorce for us to heal?
That is exactly how I feel about my AW and her decision to end our marriage.

Originally Posted by sandiphoto
... Why is AA and his AA friends the only thing that matters to him? And why can't he see it?
Pardon me if I sound blunt. In my opinion, he is _not_ working the program of recovery. He is just using it as "cover" to continue using and abusing people, places and things. Just because a drunk quits drinking doesn't immediately turn them into a saint.

What I'm doing is attending _my_ Al-Anon meetings, taking care of _my_ needs and making _my_ life better. If my AW chooses to join me in my life she can do so, but she will have to do so while respecting my boundaries and my needs.

Whadya think?

Mike :-)
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Old 01-01-2005, 02:03 PM
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Clarification and to DesertEyes...

These were my points, exactly, when I first posted this thread. After reading so many stories about how things (for some people) got worse after sobriety, it suddenly dawned on me that perhaps sobriety was not as attractive as I once thought. I had deluded myself into believing how much better my marriage could be if only my husband was sober. Evidently, not so. I wasn't trying to project about my own situation (though I did write my post in the first person). I'd had a revelation (or an awakening), so I wrote about it.

Mike - you said "it's up to the individual what they want to do with their life." I'm thinking about this, but I'm not sure I completely agree. I'm thinking that each of us, to some extent, should also accept responsibility for those we have emotionally or physically involved in our lives. For example, if you married someone, isn't there a responsibility to respect the vows? If you father a child, isn't there a responsibility toward that life you helped create? Aren't these responsibilities just consequences to our choices? No man/woman stands alone. When you throw the rock into a pond, each ripple represents a life which is affected. To say that we are only responsible for our individual selves seems a little too simplistic to me, as well as a cop out to the rest of the people who are in our lives. Just MY opinion. You are much farther along in your recovery than I am, and I bow to your experience and wisdom.

Myself, personally... I am far, far away from that stage of the alcoholic journey. My husband is no where near recovery.
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Old 01-01-2005, 03:00 PM
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Originally Posted by hope2bhappy
For example, if you married someone, isn't there a responsibility to respect the vows?
I can related and respect what you said there.

For 14 years, I did everything I could to respect my vows. I thought I was causing a major sin b/c i asked him to move out. Over time, though, I've come to accept that my HP would not want me to be in a situation that was unhealthy for me.

I too "accepted" that he was not going to change, and was living the last few years just going through the motions. Doing everything I had to to hold on to him and our marriage? What I got back in return was a lot of pain and loneliness.

Through counseling and Al-Anon, I gained the strength I needed to start moving forward again - and make myself healthy.

I don't think AA or Al-Anon or any other 12 step groups have "family" in mind. These were programs set up for the individual person who is seeking help and serenity. They help the person to become emotionally stronger. It is then up to that individual to decide which path their life will take.

Al-Anon is the best thing I could have done for myself. I wish, everyday, my AH would go to AA. I believe AA could make him emotionally stronger and able to deal with lifes crisis a lot easier. Maybe then, we can work on us. But, for now, it's "One Day at a Time".
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Old 01-01-2005, 06:15 PM
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This is such a good thread.
Over the last year I have found myself wishing many times that my AH would go back to drinking and drugging - because that was a rollercoaster I knew how to handle! And each time I felt like a horrible sick person. Who would want that madness back? But sobriety is an equally rough ride.

Maybe what I was really doing is wishing for a "reason" to end the marriage. After his infidelity with a prostitute in Mexico I insisted that we both get HIV tested, and I secretly hoped that they came back positive. That is how addicted to drama I was. ?!?!?! (they didn't thank god)

But I'm getting healthier every day. I know now that even though I feel helpless to "fix" our marriage, I'm not helpless to fix me. He and I do have a responsibility to each other, esp. because of our son, but that doesn't mean clinging to a sinking ship. Most importantly - whether or not we stay married, I will be okay!!!
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Old 01-01-2005, 06:50 PM
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Originally Posted by smilo
I secretly hoped that they came back positive. That is how addicted to drama I was.
We truly are sick when we are stuck in codependency. I have had similar thoughts, where I hoped this or that would happen, and then maybe, either my AH or myself would have the courage to seek divorce. But, many times, I would prefer HIM to make the first move. I don't know why. I don't know if it's because I THINK then I won't have to live with guilt or what? Or possibly, if HE made the first move, then he may not get suicidal - like I have the power to "make" him suicidal anyway. It is craziness. I want out of being addicted to the drama!
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Old 01-01-2005, 07:08 PM
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Hi there hope :-)

Originally Posted by hope2bhappy
... I'm thinking that each of us, to some extent, should also accept responsibility for those we have emotionally or physically involved in our lives....
I agree completely. A fundamental part of recovery is to follow thru on all our responsibilities, as well as make ammends for all the damage we did in our past. The word "sobriety" implies worlds more than just not drinking. Those who are simply not drinking but continue do behave irresponsibly are refered to as "dry drunks".

When I say that it is up to the individual what they want to do with their lives I mean that everybody is responsible for their own lives and the consequences of that life. If an alcoholic chooses to have an affair then that alcoholic is responsible for that choice and should face the consequences.

Originally Posted by hope2bhappy
... I had deluded myself into believing how much better my marriage could be if only my husband was sober.
I understand. We all do that. With all due respect to your husband, his behavior is not what we call "sober" over here. That's a "dry drunk".

Originally Posted by hope2bhappy
... I'd had a revelation (or an awakening), so I wrote about it...
An important one, to be sure. I too have fantasies of what my life would be like if my wife were to quit having affairs, quit her irresponsible behavior. It is those fantasies that kept me in this marriage far longer than I should have.

I don't know about your husband, but you sound to me like you're doing just fine in _your_ recovery :-)

Whadya think?

Mike :-)
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Old 01-02-2005, 02:58 AM
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Wow. What a thought provoking thread.

I can only agree that sobriety does not of itself bring an end to all problems. I have been going to AA since early October. I thought this was great and that I had found a way out of my alcoholism. No way! I didn't originally grasp what it takes to actually work the programme. So I've only really been working my recovery for a month now.

In this time, my ex fiancee asked me to leave our home. I've rented my own flat and we have spent the entire holiday season apart. I have used this time to read AA literature, get to meetings, speak to others in AA. I can truly now say that I'm learning what spiritual growth is. Without this discovery my life while having been unmanageable would also have become unbearable.

However, today I looked in the mirror and really liked what I saw. There sure have been some changes in me. So just for today, I WILL be happy.

The desire to stay sober and continue my recovery burns inside me with a passion. I will keep my side of the street scrupulously clean. I will become stronger. Tonight I will share my ESH with others in the hope that somebody can draw from it.

Who knows what tomorrow will bring, but working the programme you can be sure that there will be hope.

Rich
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