I don't think there is a "bottom" anymore....
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Phoenix, Arizona
Posts: 23
I don't think there is a "bottom" anymore....
:hello2
I have completely lost the belief that an alcoholic will "hit bottom" and then seek help. I think "the bottom" is a bunch of hooey that was made up to give hope to those who love addicts.
History on me is alcoholic father that has been a pretty big screwup all my life. Went to AA, all kinds of drug rehabs...pretty much done it all. My dad is a binge alcoholic, meaning he only drinks when he falls off the wagon. But, he drinks to the extent that he ends up holding a sign for money on a freeway, or in the hospital, or in prison, or hit by a car, or joining the bums sleeping in the park.......he's done all of those. He walks the streets and beats on doors at night, beligerant. I have no good memories of childhood, only bad. I can still smell the alcohol and filth on him when he would climb through my window at night to get in the house. My mom stayed with him, fighting for her life, screaming at him to change, for 25 years. Two years ago she went to another man for a way out (slept with someone else). Parents were long since divorced (they stayed together), so no biggie. Well, that threw my dad into a tailspin and he went on an alcoholic binge that landed him two years in prison. My mom finding someone else devastated my family. Now, there was no one to "take care" of my dad, which wasn't a problem yet since he was incarcerated. Fast forward 2 years and he is out, living now with my addict brother (who is going down fast as well, by the way), has $800, no clothes, is now a convicted felon, and has no car. Dad hasn't had a REAL job in I don't know how long, so we have no clue what he is going to do. He thinks he is too good to work at remedial jobs (those grandiose notions). Brother works all the time but never seems to have money....borrows money from mom and anyone else. He is too blitzed the rest of the time on weed and painkillers to be worth anything.
My dad is 60 years old and he has nothing. He has been out of prison (no, there was NO rehabilitation) for not even a week yet and while he has attended a few meetings, he does not believe in them. He is a dry drunk going through the motions, eating large amounts of sugars and fidgeting around or sleeping for hours on end, a ticking time bomb. He is extremely demanding of my sister and I and the guilt is horrendous.
I am successful in life. I want to live my life, pay my bills, worry about ME and my husband and the family we want to start. What do I do if my dad falls off the wagon and has no one to take care of him? How do you deal with those "sober" alchoholics that never quite rehabilitate? My dad is also manic depressive....takes no meds. Won't do it. Probably has some alchoholic dementia as well. I am angry at my mom for "dumping" him off on us after so many years. Why did she stay with him??!! I don't blame her really....she deserves happiness too......but there is alot of anger there that I don't know how to make go away.
I have to say my father is unlike any alcoholic I have ever heard of or know. While they say that you can find people that are going through the same thing here, sometimes I wonder. My father seems totally dependant on other people to even live and he seems to me to be so absolutely unable to function in society that I give him six months max before he drinks again and possibly goes to prison for a LONG time. Or, he'll kill my mother and kill himself. When she started dating this other man (who now lives in their house) there were some threats and a restraining order. My mother and father can never see each other again and all of a sudden, just like that, because my mom decided she was too good for this, I must bear the entire burden that is my father.
Furthermore, while he loves me, deep down, he doesn't know HOW to love me. He doesn't listen to me or care about my life. I unplug the phone at night to avoid phone calls from family. I get this tearing feeling in my gut when I answer and he is on the other line. I think "what do you want from me now?" and deep down, I just want my dad to love me like all other dads love their daughters. I don't think he ever will though. I think he is pretty much insane...so troubled..and so poor....that there is no help for him.
I am at a point now where I think, if I can't help him without hurting me, what do I do? Do I get sucked into his manipulation and my overwhelming misplaced guilt and ruin my life, or do I "cut the line" and let him sink and save myself?? I dream of changing my name and moving away without telling anyone. Being alone with no family seems like it would be healthier for me. Most of my family sucks off me and gives nothing in return. Living in the same state as they do sometimes seems like it is the most unhealthy thing I could be doing!!
I wonder how it is that some people are so difficult to love while others make it so easy. What gene did my husband get that my dad did not???
I think I need to talk to someone face to face about all this before I completely break down. I am looking into ACOA or Al-anon meetings. I need some advice.
Sorry so long, but this isn't even a tenth of what would have come out of my mouth in person!! HA!!
J
I have completely lost the belief that an alcoholic will "hit bottom" and then seek help. I think "the bottom" is a bunch of hooey that was made up to give hope to those who love addicts.
History on me is alcoholic father that has been a pretty big screwup all my life. Went to AA, all kinds of drug rehabs...pretty much done it all. My dad is a binge alcoholic, meaning he only drinks when he falls off the wagon. But, he drinks to the extent that he ends up holding a sign for money on a freeway, or in the hospital, or in prison, or hit by a car, or joining the bums sleeping in the park.......he's done all of those. He walks the streets and beats on doors at night, beligerant. I have no good memories of childhood, only bad. I can still smell the alcohol and filth on him when he would climb through my window at night to get in the house. My mom stayed with him, fighting for her life, screaming at him to change, for 25 years. Two years ago she went to another man for a way out (slept with someone else). Parents were long since divorced (they stayed together), so no biggie. Well, that threw my dad into a tailspin and he went on an alcoholic binge that landed him two years in prison. My mom finding someone else devastated my family. Now, there was no one to "take care" of my dad, which wasn't a problem yet since he was incarcerated. Fast forward 2 years and he is out, living now with my addict brother (who is going down fast as well, by the way), has $800, no clothes, is now a convicted felon, and has no car. Dad hasn't had a REAL job in I don't know how long, so we have no clue what he is going to do. He thinks he is too good to work at remedial jobs (those grandiose notions). Brother works all the time but never seems to have money....borrows money from mom and anyone else. He is too blitzed the rest of the time on weed and painkillers to be worth anything.
My dad is 60 years old and he has nothing. He has been out of prison (no, there was NO rehabilitation) for not even a week yet and while he has attended a few meetings, he does not believe in them. He is a dry drunk going through the motions, eating large amounts of sugars and fidgeting around or sleeping for hours on end, a ticking time bomb. He is extremely demanding of my sister and I and the guilt is horrendous.
I am successful in life. I want to live my life, pay my bills, worry about ME and my husband and the family we want to start. What do I do if my dad falls off the wagon and has no one to take care of him? How do you deal with those "sober" alchoholics that never quite rehabilitate? My dad is also manic depressive....takes no meds. Won't do it. Probably has some alchoholic dementia as well. I am angry at my mom for "dumping" him off on us after so many years. Why did she stay with him??!! I don't blame her really....she deserves happiness too......but there is alot of anger there that I don't know how to make go away.
I have to say my father is unlike any alcoholic I have ever heard of or know. While they say that you can find people that are going through the same thing here, sometimes I wonder. My father seems totally dependant on other people to even live and he seems to me to be so absolutely unable to function in society that I give him six months max before he drinks again and possibly goes to prison for a LONG time. Or, he'll kill my mother and kill himself. When she started dating this other man (who now lives in their house) there were some threats and a restraining order. My mother and father can never see each other again and all of a sudden, just like that, because my mom decided she was too good for this, I must bear the entire burden that is my father.
Furthermore, while he loves me, deep down, he doesn't know HOW to love me. He doesn't listen to me or care about my life. I unplug the phone at night to avoid phone calls from family. I get this tearing feeling in my gut when I answer and he is on the other line. I think "what do you want from me now?" and deep down, I just want my dad to love me like all other dads love their daughters. I don't think he ever will though. I think he is pretty much insane...so troubled..and so poor....that there is no help for him.
I am at a point now where I think, if I can't help him without hurting me, what do I do? Do I get sucked into his manipulation and my overwhelming misplaced guilt and ruin my life, or do I "cut the line" and let him sink and save myself?? I dream of changing my name and moving away without telling anyone. Being alone with no family seems like it would be healthier for me. Most of my family sucks off me and gives nothing in return. Living in the same state as they do sometimes seems like it is the most unhealthy thing I could be doing!!
I wonder how it is that some people are so difficult to love while others make it so easy. What gene did my husband get that my dad did not???
I think I need to talk to someone face to face about all this before I completely break down. I am looking into ACOA or Al-anon meetings. I need some advice.
Sorry so long, but this isn't even a tenth of what would have come out of my mouth in person!! HA!!
J
Member
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: bowling green ky
Posts: 201
I wonder if my AH will ever hit rock bottom- by the grace of God he has been sober 3 weeks now- but who knows? It's not like we haven't done this before. I guess some never will hit bottom- but I have met a few that did. One of my friends father has been sober 25 years now- so there is always hope- but it is up to them and them alone.
Caring for the 3 little bears
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Oz
Posts: 509
Yes, there is always hope, but it is up to HIM. There is absolutely NOTHING you can do. Addicts are an unusual lot. They are selfish manipulaters. I think your mom was very brave and did the right thing to get out. I hope you will be brave and do the right thing too.
Regarding hitting bottom, I agree. I don't know if some A's have a bottom. I don't think mine does. He has been through the ringer, mentally and physically and for 30 years is still using.
Read some codependent books, find a meeting.
We know we are supposed to help others in need, and we are supposed to have compassion. But, we need to remember, the way to help addicts is to leave them alone. That is the only way to help an addict. It sounds harsh, but we all know deep down this is true. He is a grown man, it's time he took care of himself. THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING YOU CAN DO! Enjoy your "new" family... keep taking your phone off the hook at night! And enjoy YOUR life!
If you feel guilty, volunteer somewhere a couple times a month. Help others who may really appreciate your help.
Take care!
Regarding hitting bottom, I agree. I don't know if some A's have a bottom. I don't think mine does. He has been through the ringer, mentally and physically and for 30 years is still using.
Read some codependent books, find a meeting.
We know we are supposed to help others in need, and we are supposed to have compassion. But, we need to remember, the way to help addicts is to leave them alone. That is the only way to help an addict. It sounds harsh, but we all know deep down this is true. He is a grown man, it's time he took care of himself. THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING YOU CAN DO! Enjoy your "new" family... keep taking your phone off the hook at night! And enjoy YOUR life!
If you feel guilty, volunteer somewhere a couple times a month. Help others who may really appreciate your help.
Take care!
Member
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 407
thrashej -
I'm giving you a huge hug! You need it. You also need to know that there is absolutely nothing you can do for your dad. If he wants help, he has to do it himself. It seems that he has made no effort at all to do so. To think that you need to sacrifice your life to try and save his is wrong, wrong, wrong.
Is there some reason that you need to live where you do? Could you and your "normal" husband find jobs in a new location? I know that seems like you are running away from the problems but it seems to me that you would be running towards a brand new life which you both deserve. You didn't cause his alcoholism and you are never going to cure him. Think about your future and leave the guilt where it belongs - with your father.
Hugs, Jo
PS: Try not to take out your feelings on your mom for finally leaving him. She too deserves some happiness. It is just a shame that she wasn't able to do it alot sooner - when you and your brother were small children. The responsibility you are feeling for your dad now was an even bigger problem for your mom as the the wife of an alcoholic. TAKE CARE OF YOU.
I'm giving you a huge hug! You need it. You also need to know that there is absolutely nothing you can do for your dad. If he wants help, he has to do it himself. It seems that he has made no effort at all to do so. To think that you need to sacrifice your life to try and save his is wrong, wrong, wrong.
Is there some reason that you need to live where you do? Could you and your "normal" husband find jobs in a new location? I know that seems like you are running away from the problems but it seems to me that you would be running towards a brand new life which you both deserve. You didn't cause his alcoholism and you are never going to cure him. Think about your future and leave the guilt where it belongs - with your father.
Hugs, Jo
PS: Try not to take out your feelings on your mom for finally leaving him. She too deserves some happiness. It is just a shame that she wasn't able to do it alot sooner - when you and your brother were small children. The responsibility you are feeling for your dad now was an even bigger problem for your mom as the the wife of an alcoholic. TAKE CARE OF YOU.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Phoenix, Arizona
Posts: 23
Thank YOU!
Thanks all for the advice. Not like it isn't anything I didn't already know, but I tell you, it is so hard when it is your Dad and literally, he has no one else in the world.
Moving away would be a solution of sorts, but if my dad had no one else to turn to something tells me he would find me and try to extract his prices there. Hubby wants to move to the midwest with his family (who is much more normal, by the way) but we are trying to pay off some bills before we do that. I am also trying to attend nursing school here before we leave. There are so many things that I want to accomplish and I cannot do it with somebody sucking off me. My family seems to do nothing by emotionally and physically drain me.
Anyway, thanks again everyone. This is really something that I have to deal with. We'll see how it goes.
J
Moving away would be a solution of sorts, but if my dad had no one else to turn to something tells me he would find me and try to extract his prices there. Hubby wants to move to the midwest with his family (who is much more normal, by the way) but we are trying to pay off some bills before we do that. I am also trying to attend nursing school here before we leave. There are so many things that I want to accomplish and I cannot do it with somebody sucking off me. My family seems to do nothing by emotionally and physically drain me.
Anyway, thanks again everyone. This is really something that I have to deal with. We'll see how it goes.
J
Cruelty-Free
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Body: South Florida Heart: Yosemite National Park
Posts: 914
I've heard people say that "every bottom has a basement"...
Personally, I've hit more than one emotional "bottom". The two most memorable were the one (pre-recovery) that brought me to the point of making a commitment to a 12-Step way of life and the one (post-recovery) that helped me make the decision to actually work those 12 Steps.
I hope that I never have to feel that depth of self-induced pain again, but I'm aware that that may be part of my further healing and growth.
I've heard alcoholics and addicts talk about having a "built-in forgetter" when it comes to the pain they've put themselves through. I consider myself blessed that I am able to remember the emotional pain of my "bottoms". The memory helps me to resist engaging in the behaviors that will inevitably lead me to more unnecessary pain.
Personally, I've hit more than one emotional "bottom". The two most memorable were the one (pre-recovery) that brought me to the point of making a commitment to a 12-Step way of life and the one (post-recovery) that helped me make the decision to actually work those 12 Steps.
I hope that I never have to feel that depth of self-induced pain again, but I'm aware that that may be part of my further healing and growth.
I've heard alcoholics and addicts talk about having a "built-in forgetter" when it comes to the pain they've put themselves through. I consider myself blessed that I am able to remember the emotional pain of my "bottoms". The memory helps me to resist engaging in the behaviors that will inevitably lead me to more unnecessary pain.
Searching and tripping
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Back in my head
Posts: 1,194
Hey t,
It's so hard to turn your back on someone you love. But when they're destroying your life and taking you down with them, it's a matter of survival.
I hope you are able to find alanon meetings. If it would help, get a sponsor too. Please don't let this effect your life with your husband and your future kiddies. It can you know.
It's time for you to think of yourself and your mental health. What your pop does is totally up to him. You're not his mother. Nor his guardian. Sobriety is something he has to choose to do. And if he prefers intoxication to sobriety....
Don't feel you're responsible for him. No matter what you say or tell him, it's like talking to a wall. He won't listen. But, the day may come he makes the decision to get sober. I pray that he does. But in the meantime, get on with your life, enjoy it to the fullest and make yourself and your husband happy.
Blessings, Kathy
It's so hard to turn your back on someone you love. But when they're destroying your life and taking you down with them, it's a matter of survival.
I hope you are able to find alanon meetings. If it would help, get a sponsor too. Please don't let this effect your life with your husband and your future kiddies. It can you know.
It's time for you to think of yourself and your mental health. What your pop does is totally up to him. You're not his mother. Nor his guardian. Sobriety is something he has to choose to do. And if he prefers intoxication to sobriety....
Don't feel you're responsible for him. No matter what you say or tell him, it's like talking to a wall. He won't listen. But, the day may come he makes the decision to get sober. I pray that he does. But in the meantime, get on with your life, enjoy it to the fullest and make yourself and your husband happy.
Blessings, Kathy
Supply Manager
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Cleaverville
Posts: 2,898
First Welcome!
No one can "suck off you" unless you allow it. My 30 year old son is just out of prison, an alcoholic who is not being a father to his child, a felon and a manipulator. I simply say "No". Not easy I know, and it took me a long time to get there. Talk about misplaced guilt? Try being the mother...that is all about caring for them and wondering what I did wrong.
Acting out of guilt is a huge mistake and not easy to set aside. One thing I did was make a list of all the things I had done for him. Trust me...it was a long list. Seeing it on paper, for me, had a profound effect. Now when he he digs deep for his "lines" I remember that list.
You deserve a life that is free from the chaos and so do I. One "No" at a time...one day at a time and you can get there.
Hugs,
JT
No one can "suck off you" unless you allow it. My 30 year old son is just out of prison, an alcoholic who is not being a father to his child, a felon and a manipulator. I simply say "No". Not easy I know, and it took me a long time to get there. Talk about misplaced guilt? Try being the mother...that is all about caring for them and wondering what I did wrong.
Acting out of guilt is a huge mistake and not easy to set aside. One thing I did was make a list of all the things I had done for him. Trust me...it was a long list. Seeing it on paper, for me, had a profound effect. Now when he he digs deep for his "lines" I remember that list.
You deserve a life that is free from the chaos and so do I. One "No" at a time...one day at a time and you can get there.
Hugs,
JT
Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: nowheresville
Posts: 872
Your Dad might have nothing and no one but remember he did that to himself, all by himself. You are not responsible for him and his choices. He has his higher power and so do you.
And yes you answered your own question, you cut the ties and let him sink and save yourself that's his only way of hitting a bottom if he ever does. And it's the only way you'll have power over your own life.
By coming to this site and going to Alanon meetings you will be able to do it.
Ngaire
And yes you answered your own question, you cut the ties and let him sink and save yourself that's his only way of hitting a bottom if he ever does. And it's the only way you'll have power over your own life.
By coming to this site and going to Alanon meetings you will be able to do it.
Ngaire
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