Setting limits? (long)
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Northern California
Posts: 2
Setting limits? (long)
Hi folks. I'm brand new here, although I've lurked a bit. I would like some advice on setting limits with my alcoholic parents - and how you do that when they are never sober. Although I'm an extremely assertive 46 year old woman in every other aspect of my life - for some reason this scares me.
Back story:
My parents have been alcoholics all my life. My mom has the "cute" pictures of her 9 months pregnant with me, with a martini glass in one hand and a cigarette in the other. I'm sure you are familiar with that. Because my father was very successful in business, they never believed they had a problem. I was making Manhattens for them by the time I was 7, they thought it was cute to buy me drinks at restaurants when I was 10, our family nights out were spent at bars, etc. They drank every night starting at 5:30 and mornings on the weekends. My mother was an abusive drunk so I was hit a lot and told I was worthless. I fought her back though, even as a little kid. It was not a nice childhood, and I dreamed of moving out early on. When other kids dreamed of marriage or college - all I wanted was out of that house.
The very day I graduated high school I packed my things and left. But, I became a bartender, of course. I did lot of self-destructive things to myself - heavy drinking, drugging, etc, because I grew up thinking that was normal. I'd never met anybody who didn't drink and I grew up hearing bad things about "teetotelers" which was a word my dad spit out about anybody he didn't like.
(I'm proud to say he called me that recently, and he meant it as an insult, but I took it as a compliment.)
I became pregnant (unmarried) at 28 and that straighted my life out. I began to realize that the way I had grown up was far from normal, and I didn't want to create that life for my own son.
And, I didn't. I quit drinking then, got a "normal" job and raised my son with values - something I was lacking. (He's wonderful, 18, and a great kid.)
I'm now 46, married 10 years ago, and have another child and a real family life not based on alcoholism.
The problem is dealing with my parents. Since the day I moved out, I knew not to call them past 5:00 because they'll be drunk, so all my calls were in the morning. Now, though, since my dad was kicked out of his company, they start drinking from the time they get up until they pass out, and it's impossible to talk to them.
Fortunately, they don't live in my city, but I do have to go visit them once a year. And, I don't speak to them often anymore because they are always drunk, but sometimes they call me, and it bothers me.
I should add that my parents were very helpful during the years I was a single mother, and did help pay for things when I struggled to get on my feet, so I do feel obligated to them a bit.
I called my dad on the 24th, in the morning- his birthday. They weren't home, and I left a message. My dad called me back - dead drunk. The next morning, at Christmas, my mom called too - it was 11:00 a.m. and she was sloshed. Fortunately, they didn't ask to speak to the kids (they pretty much ignore their grandchildren, which is fine by me.) My dad has DUIs, by the way, which he thinks is other people's fault. He is also suffering from alcoholism related stomach problems and nerve damage.
I don't want to talk to them on holidays. But, I have to talk to them on holidays. They are my parents, and I'm already down speaking to them only 3 or 4 times a year, and seeing them every other year. I would like to tell them to not call if they've been drinking - but that would be never! I mostly communcate with my dad via email, but now I'm getting all these garbled emails too.
It's hard to see them drink themselves to death, although I'm not sad about it - they are getting what they wanted and deserve. (They are 74 and 73) But, I really don't want it in my life - that simple drunken phone call on Christmas is still bothering me a lot days later. When I do force myself to go see them - I'm upset for weeks.
As I've grown into my 40s, I find that these behaviors that I brushed off years ago are lasting with me, and disturbing me quite a bit. Perhaps it's because I know they won't live long and this relationship is all it will ever be, or maybe I'm just fed up!
Any advice on setting limits? Have any of you done this successfully? I would like to cut them out of my life in a way, but that is impossible - and as bad as they are I'm not sure they deserve that - but there has to be a way to keep this from disturbing me so much.
Thanks for letting me vent. Nobody else understands the confusing emotions these things bring on. My husband loved his parents and they were nice to him, and sober, so he doesn't quite get it (although he's disgusted by my mom). It's nice to have an anonymous place to get it off my chest.
Back story:
My parents have been alcoholics all my life. My mom has the "cute" pictures of her 9 months pregnant with me, with a martini glass in one hand and a cigarette in the other. I'm sure you are familiar with that. Because my father was very successful in business, they never believed they had a problem. I was making Manhattens for them by the time I was 7, they thought it was cute to buy me drinks at restaurants when I was 10, our family nights out were spent at bars, etc. They drank every night starting at 5:30 and mornings on the weekends. My mother was an abusive drunk so I was hit a lot and told I was worthless. I fought her back though, even as a little kid. It was not a nice childhood, and I dreamed of moving out early on. When other kids dreamed of marriage or college - all I wanted was out of that house.
The very day I graduated high school I packed my things and left. But, I became a bartender, of course. I did lot of self-destructive things to myself - heavy drinking, drugging, etc, because I grew up thinking that was normal. I'd never met anybody who didn't drink and I grew up hearing bad things about "teetotelers" which was a word my dad spit out about anybody he didn't like.
(I'm proud to say he called me that recently, and he meant it as an insult, but I took it as a compliment.)
I became pregnant (unmarried) at 28 and that straighted my life out. I began to realize that the way I had grown up was far from normal, and I didn't want to create that life for my own son.
And, I didn't. I quit drinking then, got a "normal" job and raised my son with values - something I was lacking. (He's wonderful, 18, and a great kid.)
I'm now 46, married 10 years ago, and have another child and a real family life not based on alcoholism.
The problem is dealing with my parents. Since the day I moved out, I knew not to call them past 5:00 because they'll be drunk, so all my calls were in the morning. Now, though, since my dad was kicked out of his company, they start drinking from the time they get up until they pass out, and it's impossible to talk to them.
Fortunately, they don't live in my city, but I do have to go visit them once a year. And, I don't speak to them often anymore because they are always drunk, but sometimes they call me, and it bothers me.
I should add that my parents were very helpful during the years I was a single mother, and did help pay for things when I struggled to get on my feet, so I do feel obligated to them a bit.
I called my dad on the 24th, in the morning- his birthday. They weren't home, and I left a message. My dad called me back - dead drunk. The next morning, at Christmas, my mom called too - it was 11:00 a.m. and she was sloshed. Fortunately, they didn't ask to speak to the kids (they pretty much ignore their grandchildren, which is fine by me.) My dad has DUIs, by the way, which he thinks is other people's fault. He is also suffering from alcoholism related stomach problems and nerve damage.
I don't want to talk to them on holidays. But, I have to talk to them on holidays. They are my parents, and I'm already down speaking to them only 3 or 4 times a year, and seeing them every other year. I would like to tell them to not call if they've been drinking - but that would be never! I mostly communcate with my dad via email, but now I'm getting all these garbled emails too.
It's hard to see them drink themselves to death, although I'm not sad about it - they are getting what they wanted and deserve. (They are 74 and 73) But, I really don't want it in my life - that simple drunken phone call on Christmas is still bothering me a lot days later. When I do force myself to go see them - I'm upset for weeks.
As I've grown into my 40s, I find that these behaviors that I brushed off years ago are lasting with me, and disturbing me quite a bit. Perhaps it's because I know they won't live long and this relationship is all it will ever be, or maybe I'm just fed up!
Any advice on setting limits? Have any of you done this successfully? I would like to cut them out of my life in a way, but that is impossible - and as bad as they are I'm not sure they deserve that - but there has to be a way to keep this from disturbing me so much.
Thanks for letting me vent. Nobody else understands the confusing emotions these things bring on. My husband loved his parents and they were nice to him, and sober, so he doesn't quite get it (although he's disgusted by my mom). It's nice to have an anonymous place to get it off my chest.
Survivor
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Proud Upstate New Yorker
Posts: 869
Trust me I know how you feel. I just posted in the other thread about going back for more.
Like you, I feel obligated to my family but I dont even have a reason. I just do. Because they are family, I feel like I have to go back and call them and treat them nice and everything. I am hoping to break away from that. I hope you can too. Just because someone does something for you, doesn't mean you have sold your soul to them.
I think it is okay for you to tell them not to call when they are drunk. It is not easy especially since they drink so much but you can do it. Dont worry about whether or not you will talk to them again...you will. Just my opinion though.
It is good that you live away and that your home life sounds so stable. I would love to live in that environment. I dont have a home to go to anymore and I am just a 20 year old college student working hard so that someday I may create a home for myself. You know?
Like you, I am having trouble setting boundaries because they would be so extreme. My mother will never ever stop drinking. I know that. I dont want to visit her or the rest of the family anymore. I dont want to call either. It all just hurts to badly, so does that mean I erase them from my life? I dont know.
I hope I have been of some sort of assistance. I want you to know that I feel the same to some extent.
((((big hug)))))
~Def
Like you, I feel obligated to my family but I dont even have a reason. I just do. Because they are family, I feel like I have to go back and call them and treat them nice and everything. I am hoping to break away from that. I hope you can too. Just because someone does something for you, doesn't mean you have sold your soul to them.
I think it is okay for you to tell them not to call when they are drunk. It is not easy especially since they drink so much but you can do it. Dont worry about whether or not you will talk to them again...you will. Just my opinion though.
It is good that you live away and that your home life sounds so stable. I would love to live in that environment. I dont have a home to go to anymore and I am just a 20 year old college student working hard so that someday I may create a home for myself. You know?
Like you, I am having trouble setting boundaries because they would be so extreme. My mother will never ever stop drinking. I know that. I dont want to visit her or the rest of the family anymore. I dont want to call either. It all just hurts to badly, so does that mean I erase them from my life? I dont know.
I hope I have been of some sort of assistance. I want you to know that I feel the same to some extent.
((((big hug)))))
~Def
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Northern California
Posts: 2
Thanks Def,
You are so young, and you are much further along than I am. By the time you are my age, all of these emotions will be settled for you.
I never really even thought about this until I was 28. I hated my parents as a kid, but I don't even think I related the reasons why to their drinking until I had my own child. Drinking and being drunk was so normalized for me, that I simply didn't understand that it wasn't the only way to live your life. They gave me alcohol all the time - at restaurants, if I had a cold, etc. So to me it was fun, and like medicine.
And, that's the way they still think of it. I really don't think they understand how abusive it was.
As an adult, I was able to separate myself from them physically and mentally, and it just wasn't an issue. Now that they are elderly, and probably going to need help at some point, I guess I'm thinking about it more.
Thanks for your kind response. I am sure you'll be a wise person by the time you are my age, since you are thinking about this so young....
You are so young, and you are much further along than I am. By the time you are my age, all of these emotions will be settled for you.
I never really even thought about this until I was 28. I hated my parents as a kid, but I don't even think I related the reasons why to their drinking until I had my own child. Drinking and being drunk was so normalized for me, that I simply didn't understand that it wasn't the only way to live your life. They gave me alcohol all the time - at restaurants, if I had a cold, etc. So to me it was fun, and like medicine.
And, that's the way they still think of it. I really don't think they understand how abusive it was.
As an adult, I was able to separate myself from them physically and mentally, and it just wasn't an issue. Now that they are elderly, and probably going to need help at some point, I guess I'm thinking about it more.
Thanks for your kind response. I am sure you'll be a wise person by the time you are my age, since you are thinking about this so young....
Survivor
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Proud Upstate New Yorker
Posts: 869
Hello again,I think it is wonderful that you were able to create a more positive and healthy life for yourself and your kid(s). It must be rough having to deal with them now that they are older.
I feel callous about this but my parents will be in a nursing home so fast it will make their heads spin. The way I see things, if they were good, nurturing parents, then I wouldn't feel the way I do about them. They have not done their part and will not deserve my nurturing and care when they get older and need someone to take care of them. Dont get me wrong, I will visit them and make sure they are okay but they will not capitalize on my house, my feelings, and my lifestyle.
Thank you so much for the compliments. I thank God for making me the way I am, my family certainly didn't. ((((hugs))))
~Def
{tap}{tap}...Is this thing on?
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Getting There
Posts: 276
Jiggle,
I hope that today is offering some peace for you. I have a relationship with my family which is strained to say the least. I am a child of a "Dry Drunk" Father and a co-dependent Mother. My F has all the attributes of an alcoholic but doesn't drink to excess. My S is an active alcoholic/user. All of this is my perspective - which is all that is important as it is MY view, history, memory that I live with day in and day out.
I have struggled with what relationship I want to have with my family as a whole. I have been able to get to the point of using the words "have to" less and focusing on "want to" much more.
I do not owe my parents anything. Having a child is about sacrifices and giving, without expectation. This is the healthy approach to parenting but not the one my parents hold. They associate gift giving with certain expected behavior. I now subscribe to the belief that if something is given with an expectation of an outcome (behavior, action, phone call, etc.) it is not a gift is is a BRIBE.
When I started attending Al-Anon I was struggling with how to manage the unacceptable behavior from my family. The rages, sulking, yelling, silent treatment, tantrums, pretending that nothing is wrong - that are all childlike behavior - behavior that is not acceptable from a child but for some reason has been accepted by my M and my S and me from my F for 30+ years.
Just this year I said enough, I will not accept this behavior and I sent letters to both my parents this past Sept. after another "episode" with my F. It was terrifying and exhilirating at the same time. And when I mailed out the letters that I wrote I felt the weight of a world of shame and frustration lift from my shoulders. I will no longer be part of their craziness - and I WILL NOT allow their craziness into my house.
I have had to write things down so I won't forget what I want to say because I get flustered and feel like a 9 year old at time, especially when dealing with my F. Writing my thoughts down made/makes it easier to keep the focus on what I want to discuss. (Want not need...still working on this one).
I deserve to have a peaceful home life. And if that means not speaking to my family but 2-3 times per year than that is what must be.
If you can imagine a peaceful life, it is possible. There may be moments of pain, but they are just moments not days (like what you are feeling now) of dread, anger, frustration. Al-Anon helped me to give it up and let it go.
I hope this makes sense as I too find this a wonderful place to unload thoughts that rattle around very nosily in my head, sometimes for hours/days/weeks.
Please keep coming back there is much to be shared here.
Peace,
Petunia
I hope that today is offering some peace for you. I have a relationship with my family which is strained to say the least. I am a child of a "Dry Drunk" Father and a co-dependent Mother. My F has all the attributes of an alcoholic but doesn't drink to excess. My S is an active alcoholic/user. All of this is my perspective - which is all that is important as it is MY view, history, memory that I live with day in and day out.
I have struggled with what relationship I want to have with my family as a whole. I have been able to get to the point of using the words "have to" less and focusing on "want to" much more.
I do not owe my parents anything. Having a child is about sacrifices and giving, without expectation. This is the healthy approach to parenting but not the one my parents hold. They associate gift giving with certain expected behavior. I now subscribe to the belief that if something is given with an expectation of an outcome (behavior, action, phone call, etc.) it is not a gift is is a BRIBE.
When I started attending Al-Anon I was struggling with how to manage the unacceptable behavior from my family. The rages, sulking, yelling, silent treatment, tantrums, pretending that nothing is wrong - that are all childlike behavior - behavior that is not acceptable from a child but for some reason has been accepted by my M and my S and me from my F for 30+ years.
Just this year I said enough, I will not accept this behavior and I sent letters to both my parents this past Sept. after another "episode" with my F. It was terrifying and exhilirating at the same time. And when I mailed out the letters that I wrote I felt the weight of a world of shame and frustration lift from my shoulders. I will no longer be part of their craziness - and I WILL NOT allow their craziness into my house.
I have had to write things down so I won't forget what I want to say because I get flustered and feel like a 9 year old at time, especially when dealing with my F. Writing my thoughts down made/makes it easier to keep the focus on what I want to discuss. (Want not need...still working on this one).
I deserve to have a peaceful home life. And if that means not speaking to my family but 2-3 times per year than that is what must be.
If you can imagine a peaceful life, it is possible. There may be moments of pain, but they are just moments not days (like what you are feeling now) of dread, anger, frustration. Al-Anon helped me to give it up and let it go.
I hope this makes sense as I too find this a wonderful place to unload thoughts that rattle around very nosily in my head, sometimes for hours/days/weeks.
Please keep coming back there is much to be shared here.
Peace,
Petunia
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