Abject misery, sorry for the negativity
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 298
Abject misery, sorry for the negativity
Skip this if you can’t deal with it, I won’t be offended. Over this “vacation” (HA!) I’ve come to realize that I am blamed from all sides for everything. AH thinks I’m abusive for distancing myself, kids think I’m a liar for not dumping AH yet, I’m a fricken dumping ground. No winning. Even if/when I dump him, they’ll just leave anyway, so what’s the point? Of anything?
sage
Join Date: Jul 2021
Posts: 704
Originally Posted by pizza67 
Skip this if you can’t deal with it, I won’t be offended. Over this “vacation” (HA!) I’ve come to realize that I am blamed from all sides for everything. AH thinks I’m abusive for distancing myself, kids think I’m a liar for not dumping AH yet, I’m a fricken dumping ground. No winning. Even if/when I dump him, they’ll just leave anyway, so what’s the point? Of anything?
My comments are from the viewpoint that I have lived with two spouses with addictions (I divorced the first and the second died). I have children, one young adult, and three teenagers, one of whom is in a residential treatment program. Both spouses were angry, abusive people. The young adult is self - sufficient, responsible, and a nice person to be around. The son in treatment is still angry, aggressive, and abusive.
Decide how you want to live, and live that life. Work the steps. Find your best routines to live and do what you find meaningful. If you can do that around AH, do it. If you can't, separate or divorce, but this is your business, no one else's. Your children sound as if they are grown and responsible for themselves. They can let you make your decisions. If they have words to say, let it run off you like water. It's their opinion, their side of the street.
I will say that your AH sounds verbally abusive and manipulative. Your situation is waving multiple red flags. Whatever decisions you make, be safe. Get out if you need to.
Today might be one of those days to let it all go and cherish yourself with some self - care, dinner, hot bath, quiet evening with a book, however self - care looks like to you.
Community Greeter
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 16,246
pizza.....first thing---what is the point?----the point is that you are a human being who is just as deserving of happiness as any other Creature of God/ You have inherent value just because you exist. You don't have to please husband to have value.
Secondly, I don't think kids are going to leave you----they haven't so far--even though they say they are. Even so, they are of an age that little ones begin to separate and launch into their own lives. In fact, they must do this----otherwise, they would really be messed up...lol.
HOWEVER---this does not mean that they leave you in their heart---and that they are going to desert you in the real sense of desertion!
You are not alone, even though you feel like it and describe it as such, I hear you saying that you are scared of the unknown. That is o.k.----because we all get scared a lot---especially at times of change.
This is what I want you to hear----If you have had enough strength to live with an alcoholic/unreasonable husband and raise kids to adulthood/near adulthood---then you have more than enough strength, inside you, to face living without tending to them. You are so much stronger than you realize---and it will come forth at the exact moment that you need it. When you need it, it comes. I have experienced this sooo many times in my life. What a surprise.
You need a lot of support, right now. Lots of support is the key.
You have us.
Secondly, I don't think kids are going to leave you----they haven't so far--even though they say they are. Even so, they are of an age that little ones begin to separate and launch into their own lives. In fact, they must do this----otherwise, they would really be messed up...lol.
HOWEVER---this does not mean that they leave you in their heart---and that they are going to desert you in the real sense of desertion!
You are not alone, even though you feel like it and describe it as such, I hear you saying that you are scared of the unknown. That is o.k.----because we all get scared a lot---especially at times of change.
This is what I want you to hear----If you have had enough strength to live with an alcoholic/unreasonable husband and raise kids to adulthood/near adulthood---then you have more than enough strength, inside you, to face living without tending to them. You are so much stronger than you realize---and it will come forth at the exact moment that you need it. When you need it, it comes. I have experienced this sooo many times in my life. What a surprise.
You need a lot of support, right now. Lots of support is the key.
You have us.
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Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Chicago
Posts: 5,450
We just can’t live our whole lives trying to make other people happy. Not only is it not healthy, it’s not even possible. We will always find ourselves at the mercy of what other people want, and caught between people who only see us for the things we can fulfill for them.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 298
Even worse. Warning you. I know it’s pathetic and twisted.
Thanks for your advice. Here’s a typical exchange: I put a plate of food on the table in front of AH. Kid texts me on chat that doesn’t have AH in it, “why are you serving him food?” Other kid says “she’ll just make up an excuse.” Another kid chimes in agreeing. I text that I’m civil to him, and I can feed who I want where I want when I want. Kid 2 calls me a liar because they feel I’m too talkative with AH to be really leaving him. I leave group chat. A few minutes later, they’re chatty with me. I usually accept the chattiness out of desperation for keeping contact with them. I’m sick of being a target so this time I scowled and walked away. They have zero respect for me. I’ve been a complete failure as a parent.
Community Greeter
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 16,246
pizza.....yes, the tone and content of what they say to you certainly does sound very disrespectful. I am glad that you did answer in the manner that you did.
From some of your other threads, it seems that there has been a great deal of disrespect going on between everyone in the family---except for you (I assume that you have been civil to the other members).
I must say that it is not surprising that the boys have become verbally disrespectful to you---because they have observed your husband modeling this behavior for them. When the father is disrespectful, it sends the message that it is o.k. for the kids to do, also. They are just copying the adult. He has taught them well, hasn't he.
They, also, have observed him getting by with it for some time.
From where I sit---looking from the outside---it appears that there are a lot of fragmented and inconsistent boundaries between family members. Confusing and damaging to relationships. Like, all tangled up.....boundaries hanging all about, in tatters and shreds......
This is the way I look at it---based on what you have shared with us.
The boys are of an age that they can and are entitled to make their own decisions about whether to still live with their father or not. But, they are not entitled to disrespect you.
You are entitled to make your own decisions in regard to living with him or not. He doesn't have a right to disrespect you---and, if he does--you have the right and responsibility to defend your own boundaries. f course, the boys have no right to disrespect you, either, and it is also your right and responsibility to defend your own boundaries when/if they disrespect you.
Keeping in mind that they are still young---still learning---as their brains are not, yet fully matured. You can't expect them to behave like fully matured adults---even if they are at the age of majority.
You and your husband ARE fully mature adults--by chronological age---and should be role modeling mature behaviors for the boys. Teaching and preparing them to function in the world as independent individuals.
Even though they have a horribly awful and disrespectful way of expressing it (modeled from their Dad, no doubt)....it looks to me that they have been trying to be protective of you from your husband's treatment. I imagine that they feel as torn and conflicted as you do, pleanty of times.
I think it would be great if you and the boys could be in family therapy sessions as a group, together.
From some of your other threads, it seems that there has been a great deal of disrespect going on between everyone in the family---except for you (I assume that you have been civil to the other members).
I must say that it is not surprising that the boys have become verbally disrespectful to you---because they have observed your husband modeling this behavior for them. When the father is disrespectful, it sends the message that it is o.k. for the kids to do, also. They are just copying the adult. He has taught them well, hasn't he.
They, also, have observed him getting by with it for some time.
From where I sit---looking from the outside---it appears that there are a lot of fragmented and inconsistent boundaries between family members. Confusing and damaging to relationships. Like, all tangled up.....boundaries hanging all about, in tatters and shreds......
This is the way I look at it---based on what you have shared with us.
The boys are of an age that they can and are entitled to make their own decisions about whether to still live with their father or not. But, they are not entitled to disrespect you.
You are entitled to make your own decisions in regard to living with him or not. He doesn't have a right to disrespect you---and, if he does--you have the right and responsibility to defend your own boundaries. f course, the boys have no right to disrespect you, either, and it is also your right and responsibility to defend your own boundaries when/if they disrespect you.
Keeping in mind that they are still young---still learning---as their brains are not, yet fully matured. You can't expect them to behave like fully matured adults---even if they are at the age of majority.
You and your husband ARE fully mature adults--by chronological age---and should be role modeling mature behaviors for the boys. Teaching and preparing them to function in the world as independent individuals.
Even though they have a horribly awful and disrespectful way of expressing it (modeled from their Dad, no doubt)....it looks to me that they have been trying to be protective of you from your husband's treatment. I imagine that they feel as torn and conflicted as you do, pleanty of times.
I think it would be great if you and the boys could be in family therapy sessions as a group, together.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 8,618
I agree with dandylion, this is what they have been shown and taught, to expect differently from them would be unreasonable at this point.
As you know my Father was an alcoholic. I would never has spoken to my Mother like that, you know why, because first of all I never doubted she put us first (children), she always protected us and she was not a doormat. So I never thought the relationship was ok and I didn't like the way he treated her (which on many occasions was disrespectful). It was none of my business and I knew that.
Secondly, we never "pretended" that we were a family unit, which kind of seems to be what your expectations are as in, can't we all just get along? Well no, they can't and they are telling you that loud and clear.
The truth is, you will probably keep doing just as you have been and they will will probably leave. If you have no intention of leaving your AH, please don't string them along, that's just damaging, tell them the truth.
If you are not making a decision, that is a decision and this will all work out the way they want it to - they will make their own decisions. Stop juggling, you are just making yourself more miserable, you can't make this be the way you want it to be.
As you know my Father was an alcoholic. I would never has spoken to my Mother like that, you know why, because first of all I never doubted she put us first (children), she always protected us and she was not a doormat. So I never thought the relationship was ok and I didn't like the way he treated her (which on many occasions was disrespectful). It was none of my business and I knew that.
Secondly, we never "pretended" that we were a family unit, which kind of seems to be what your expectations are as in, can't we all just get along? Well no, they can't and they are telling you that loud and clear.
The truth is, you will probably keep doing just as you have been and they will will probably leave. If you have no intention of leaving your AH, please don't string them along, that's just damaging, tell them the truth.
If you are not making a decision, that is a decision and this will all work out the way they want it to - they will make their own decisions. Stop juggling, you are just making yourself more miserable, you can't make this be the way you want it to be.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 298
Originally Posted by trailmix
I agree with dandylion, this is what they have been shown and taught, to expect differently from them would be unreasonable at this point.
As you know my Father was an alcoholic. I would never has spoken to my Mother like that, you know why, because first of all I never doubted she put us first (children), she always protected us and she was not a doormat. So I never thought the relationship was ok and I didn't like the way he treated her (which on many occasions was disrespectful). It was none of my business and I knew that.
Secondly, we never "pretended" that we were a family unit, which kind of seems to be what your expectations are as in, can't we all just get along? Well no, they can't and they are telling you that loud and clear.
The truth is, you will probably keep doing just as you have been and they will will probably leave. If you have no intention of leaving your AH, please don't string them along, that's just damaging, tell them the truth.
If you are not making a decision, that is a decision and this will all work out the way they want it to - they will make their own decisions. Stop juggling, you are just making yourself more miserable, you can't make this be the way you want it to be.
As you know my Father was an alcoholic. I would never has spoken to my Mother like that, you know why, because first of all I never doubted she put us first (children), she always protected us and she was not a doormat. So I never thought the relationship was ok and I didn't like the way he treated her (which on many occasions was disrespectful). It was none of my business and I knew that.
Secondly, we never "pretended" that we were a family unit, which kind of seems to be what your expectations are as in, can't we all just get along? Well no, they can't and they are telling you that loud and clear.
The truth is, you will probably keep doing just as you have been and they will will probably leave. If you have no intention of leaving your AH, please don't string them along, that's just damaging, tell them the truth.
If you are not making a decision, that is a decision and this will all work out the way they want it to - they will make their own decisions. Stop juggling, you are just making yourself more miserable, you can't make this be the way you want it to be.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 298
Originally Posted by dandylion
pizza.....yes, the tone and content of what they say to you certainly does sound very disrespectful. I am glad that you did answer in the manner that you did.
From some of your other threads, it seems that there has been a great deal of disrespect going on between everyone in the family---except for you (I assume that you have been civil to the other members).
I must say that it is not surprising that the boys have become verbally disrespectful to you---because they have observed your husband modeling this behavior for them. When the father is disrespectful, it sends the message that it is o.k. for the kids to do, also. They are just copying the adult. He has taught them well, hasn't he.
They, also, have observed him getting by with it for some time.
From where I sit---looking from the outside---it appears that there are a lot of fragmented and inconsistent boundaries between family members. Confusing and damaging to relationships. Like, all tangled up.....boundaries hanging all about, in tatters and shreds......
This is the way I look at it---based on what you have shared with us.
The boys are of an age that they can and are entitled to make their own decisions about whether to still live with their father or not. But, they are not entitled to disrespect you.
You are entitled to make your own decisions in regard to living with him or not. He doesn't have a right to disrespect you---and, if he does--you have the right and responsibility to defend your own boundaries. f course, the boys have no right to disrespect you, either, and it is also your right and responsibility to defend your own boundaries when/if they disrespect you.
Keeping in mind that they are still young---still learning---as their brains are not, yet fully matured. You can't expect them to behave like fully matured adults---even if they are at the age of majority.
You and your husband ARE fully mature adults--by chronological age---and should be role modeling mature behaviors for the boys. Teaching and preparing them to function in the world as independent individuals.
Even though they have a horribly awful and disrespectful way of expressing it (modeled from their Dad, no doubt)....it looks to me that they have been trying to be protective of you from your husband's treatment. I imagine that they feel as torn and conflicted as you do, pleanty of times.
I think it would be great if you and the boys could be in family therapy sessions as a group, together.
From some of your other threads, it seems that there has been a great deal of disrespect going on between everyone in the family---except for you (I assume that you have been civil to the other members).
I must say that it is not surprising that the boys have become verbally disrespectful to you---because they have observed your husband modeling this behavior for them. When the father is disrespectful, it sends the message that it is o.k. for the kids to do, also. They are just copying the adult. He has taught them well, hasn't he.
They, also, have observed him getting by with it for some time.
From where I sit---looking from the outside---it appears that there are a lot of fragmented and inconsistent boundaries between family members. Confusing and damaging to relationships. Like, all tangled up.....boundaries hanging all about, in tatters and shreds......
This is the way I look at it---based on what you have shared with us.
The boys are of an age that they can and are entitled to make their own decisions about whether to still live with their father or not. But, they are not entitled to disrespect you.
You are entitled to make your own decisions in regard to living with him or not. He doesn't have a right to disrespect you---and, if he does--you have the right and responsibility to defend your own boundaries. f course, the boys have no right to disrespect you, either, and it is also your right and responsibility to defend your own boundaries when/if they disrespect you.
Keeping in mind that they are still young---still learning---as their brains are not, yet fully matured. You can't expect them to behave like fully matured adults---even if they are at the age of majority.
You and your husband ARE fully mature adults--by chronological age---and should be role modeling mature behaviors for the boys. Teaching and preparing them to function in the world as independent individuals.
Even though they have a horribly awful and disrespectful way of expressing it (modeled from their Dad, no doubt)....it looks to me that they have been trying to be protective of you from your husband's treatment. I imagine that they feel as torn and conflicted as you do, pleanty of times.
I think it would be great if you and the boys could be in family therapy sessions as a group, together.
You are correct, I don’t dis people. I would plan on therapy for us. We all have individual therapists already.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Blue Ridge Mountains
Posts: 816
Family therapy, especially with you and your children, would be a smart move
toward you having a close and long term relationship with your children. It is
a common dynamic for kids to distance or estrange themselves from both
the abuser and codependent as they grow older and have the freedom to choose,
especially males. I saw some of this with my son, and I think family therapy would
have helped so much. We are close now, but in hindsight, he could have worked
through a lot of emotions and beliefs in a more straightforward & safe way.
Its the least we can give our children who we have raised in a dysfunctional
home.
toward you having a close and long term relationship with your children. It is
a common dynamic for kids to distance or estrange themselves from both
the abuser and codependent as they grow older and have the freedom to choose,
especially males. I saw some of this with my son, and I think family therapy would
have helped so much. We are close now, but in hindsight, he could have worked
through a lot of emotions and beliefs in a more straightforward & safe way.
Its the least we can give our children who we have raised in a dysfunctional
home.
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