The continuum of “sobriety”
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The continuum of “sobriety”
I have been involved with two individuals this year who lead me to believe that sobriety means different things to different people. I define sobriety as total abstinence from mind altering substances.
The first individual was a former roommate who claimed years of sobriety and led AA meetings. I threw him out after a DUI in April, where he admitted that he had never quit drinking. A second DUI followed within 2 weeks.
The second individual is a supervisor in a position I currently hold. Although he claims 7 years sobriety, I am observing behavior patterns that lead me to believe otherwise.
My reason for posting about this, is perhaps it can help those of us who are muddying through a relationship in our attempts to get to the truth about someone else’s alcohol use.
I feel good about my ability at this stage to spot trouble and take appropriate action. A lot of this is “going with my gut,” paying attention to red flags, and believing what someone does more than what they say.
The first individual was a former roommate who claimed years of sobriety and led AA meetings. I threw him out after a DUI in April, where he admitted that he had never quit drinking. A second DUI followed within 2 weeks.
The second individual is a supervisor in a position I currently hold. Although he claims 7 years sobriety, I am observing behavior patterns that lead me to believe otherwise.
My reason for posting about this, is perhaps it can help those of us who are muddying through a relationship in our attempts to get to the truth about someone else’s alcohol use.
I feel good about my ability at this stage to spot trouble and take appropriate action. A lot of this is “going with my gut,” paying attention to red flags, and believing what someone does more than what they say.
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I don’t pay much attention to others’ claims of sobriety.
Have encountered supposedly “old timers”, claiming long time sobriety (and indeed, they may not have touched an ounce in years) who are TOTAL JERKS. (😆 Keeping this post PG in this group)
IMO, it’s the authentic, real-life (not in meetings) behavior that counts.
Not the talk/claims/coins accumulated.
Have encountered supposedly “old timers”, claiming long time sobriety (and indeed, they may not have touched an ounce in years) who are TOTAL JERKS. (😆 Keeping this post PG in this group)
IMO, it’s the authentic, real-life (not in meetings) behavior that counts.
Not the talk/claims/coins accumulated.
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Originally Posted by Eauchiche 
I define sobriety as total abstinence from mind altering substances.
I am 11 years sober and as part of my program I have sponsees sometimes. You can spot a relapse building from a mile away. Also you can spot someone who has fallen off the wagon but who is lying about it. I had a sponsee drink about three days ago, I saw it in him about a week before. A sort of tension builds, he gave excuses not to use the usual techniques we would use to stop a relapse.
Always watch and feel gut reaction to behaviours not words. Words mean nothing in the world of addiction.
I have seen people use weed as a substitute for alcohol and claim they are sober! Er, no!
Have a good evening all.
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Originally Posted by AlcSis
I don’t pay much attention to others’ claims of sobriety.
Have encountered supposedly “old timers”, claiming long time sobriety (and indeed, they may not have touched an ounce in years) who are TOTAL JERKS. (😆 Keeping this post PG in this group)
IMO, it’s the authentic, real-life (not in meetings) behavior that counts.
Not the talk/claims/coins accumulated.
Have encountered supposedly “old timers”, claiming long time sobriety (and indeed, they may not have touched an ounce in years) who are TOTAL JERKS. (😆 Keeping this post PG in this group)
IMO, it’s the authentic, real-life (not in meetings) behavior that counts.
Not the talk/claims/coins accumulated.
You know, got roped into stuff. Couldn’t say no then got resentful. Typical codie
Things are different now.
One reason I suspect active addiction in others is how I respond to them. I can sense the fight or flight ramping up
The position I currently occupy is, that I am number 4 in 5 years. The ones who left were some of the more excellent in the field in our area. Masters degrees in some of them.
Of course, the suspected alky has wild stories about why they left. Number 3, the quietest of the group, just never returned after a maternity leave.
I informed the alky an hour ago about a boundary I am sticking to. He wasn’t happy, but I am in a good place this way.
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Originally Posted by PeacefulWater12
So do I. You normally tell simply by watching behaviour. It stands out like a sore thumb. Erratic etc.
I am 11 years sober and as part of my program I have sponsees sometimes. You can spot a relapse building from a mile away. Also you can spot someone who has fallen off the wagon but who is lying about it. I had a sponsee drink about three days ago, I saw it in him about a week before. A sort of tension builds, he gave excuses not to use the usual techniques we would use to stop a relapse.
Always watch and feel gut reaction to behaviours not words. Words mean nothing in the world of addiction.
I have seen people use weed as a substitute for alcohol and claim they are sober! Er, no!
Have a good evening all.
I am 11 years sober and as part of my program I have sponsees sometimes. You can spot a relapse building from a mile away. Also you can spot someone who has fallen off the wagon but who is lying about it. I had a sponsee drink about three days ago, I saw it in him about a week before. A sort of tension builds, he gave excuses not to use the usual techniques we would use to stop a relapse.
Always watch and feel gut reaction to behaviours not words. Words mean nothing in the world of addiction.
I have seen people use weed as a substitute for alcohol and claim they are sober! Er, no!
Have a good evening all.
someone like you could be giving us lessons. I would pay for the privilege.
You are right about the words meaning nothing. Definitely true with the character I’m dealing with.
Another marker is the guys wife. Like Attila the Hun. He came to work with red eyes one day after they had a “discussion.”
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I came to see that it's never about the drinking, it's always about how I am experiencing the relationship. Drinking (or smoking or meeting attendance or, or, or...) is really rather beside the point. What's happening in the relationship is how I evaluate things now.
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Originally Posted by PeacefulWater12
I have seen people use weed as a substitute for alcohol and claim they are sober! Er, no!
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Originally Posted by velma929
Before it's decriminalization - I read a coherent article from someone who opined: "if you're breaking the law to get and use a drug, you have a problem." The advocates for legalization in my area launched a campaign to "treat it like alcohol." It has been decriminalized/legalized: immediately the proponents back-peddled on drug tests for intoxicated drivers. It stays in the system so long you see...but the claim is no one dies from pot. Uhh, okay: if Daddy's getting stoned and doesn't hear his two-year-old get out of bed, wander over to the door, leave the house and freezes to death on a winter night, does that count? And yes, it happened. I can hear them now: "It's not the pot, it was cold out that night"
In my drinking career, I always felt I was far more likely to die from the utterly idiotic and dangerous things I would do whilst drunk than the actual alcohol. So I suppose my Death Certificate would state the particular incident but reality would be it would be alcohol that killed me. Most likely would have been fire in my case.
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Originally Posted by PeacefulWater12
Interesting, Yeah I could hear that sort of statement too.
In my drinking career, I always felt I was far more likely to die from the utterly idiotic and dangerous things I would do whilst drunk than the actual alcohol. So I suppose my Death Certificate would state the particular incident but reality would be it would be alcohol that killed me. Most likely would have been fire in my case.
In my drinking career, I always felt I was far more likely to die from the utterly idiotic and dangerous things I would do whilst drunk than the actual alcohol. So I suppose my Death Certificate would state the particular incident but reality would be it would be alcohol that killed me. Most likely would have been fire in my case.
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Even though the “why” shouldn’t matter. Even though we simply observe behaviors, I think I was given a gift this morning.
on another thread I posted about a position I currently hold.
This morning, the thought that my supervisor acts like a pothead morphed into the idea that he IS a pot head. Whether he’s blowing joints or ingesting the THC some other way is immaterial. All the signs are there.
I believe this whole cannabis craze in our culture will prove to be a lot more insidious than alcohol.
on another thread I posted about a position I currently hold.
This morning, the thought that my supervisor acts like a pothead morphed into the idea that he IS a pot head. Whether he’s blowing joints or ingesting the THC some other way is immaterial. All the signs are there.
I believe this whole cannabis craze in our culture will prove to be a lot more insidious than alcohol.
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My husband used to call it “addict brain” when you were abstaining from all substances but still thinking/walking/talking like an addict.
I used to wonder (not growing up with addicts or knowing much about it until I started dating him), if it was possible if the true, core issues were dealt with and “addict brain” replaced with healthy, adult think patterns, if it would be possible for people to reintroduce some substances (namely, the common and legal ones). There are some studies or systems of rehabilitation that suggest maybe yes. However, I’m not sure I think that likely anymore with some of more recent experiences.
I used to wonder (not growing up with addicts or knowing much about it until I started dating him), if it was possible if the true, core issues were dealt with and “addict brain” replaced with healthy, adult think patterns, if it would be possible for people to reintroduce some substances (namely, the common and legal ones). There are some studies or systems of rehabilitation that suggest maybe yes. However, I’m not sure I think that likely anymore with some of more recent experiences.
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Originally Posted by edoering
My husband used to call it “addict brain” when you were abstaining from all substances but still thinking/walking/talking like an addict.
I used to wonder (not growing up with addicts or knowing much about it until I started dating him), if it was possible if the true, core issues were dealt with and “addict brain” replaced with healthy, adult think patterns, if it would be possible for people to reintroduce some substances (namely, the common and legal ones). There are some studies or systems of rehabilitation that suggest maybe yes. However, I’m not sure I think that likely anymore with some of more recent experiences.
I used to wonder (not growing up with addicts or knowing much about it until I started dating him), if it was possible if the true, core issues were dealt with and “addict brain” replaced with healthy, adult think patterns, if it would be possible for people to reintroduce some substances (namely, the common and legal ones). There are some studies or systems of rehabilitation that suggest maybe yes. However, I’m not sure I think that likely anymore with some of more recent experiences.
They do no good for anybody.
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Originally Posted by Eauchiche
My question to re-introducing substances would be “why?”
They do no good for anybody.
They do no good for anybody.
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Sobriety and the brain battle
I started a new thread because the addict's brain is where the true challenge of whether the cA will choose sobriety, authentic recovery or attempt to continue the status quo of drinking alcoholically.
What we now know about the brain and addiction explains the why of their behaviors that we have all found to be so baffling and that set the us crstage make us crazy without alcohol!
As an adult child of an abusive A (9 on an ACE) who buried 3 qualifiers in their disease I have studied this subject ingensely for years and it helps put the puzzle together.
In the other thread a recovered A commented that he always believed he would die by fire passed out drunk. The tragic stories of destruction by alcohol...
So..here's a crazy story about an A....a man who I am doing a documentary about who scorched his butt to third degree burns and had to be hospitalized and debrided and treated. He was also run over by a semi and dragged 6 blocks, his legs crushed, in coma for 6 months and still kept drinking! Got run over by an Asplund truck and then a car...he has 1200 pages of hospital records and over 90 emergency visits at one hospital!
Over 15 Baker Acts and over 100 arrests for homelessness... He has spent almost 12 years in jail for homelessness, open container, disorderly intox....etc.
How do you burn your butt drunk? You black out and your campfire sets the tent on fire and you get a burnt butt!
40 years of homelessness and blackout drinking...well known to cops, judges, jailers, psych units and soup kitchens....
Today. He's sober and has his disability check each month and is buying his own RV.....
What happened to his brain? How did he change his brain ( I call it broke brain syndrome)?....
His story is tragic from conception to today as he still has challenges and consequences he is facing sober....
Unraveling what happened to the A that is the core of why they drink is very often rooted in trauma, abuse, attachment disorder, chaos and dysfunction in embryo and early childhood....why we often attracted to these broken men and women is rooted in our own broke brain syndrome!
Deep down in my unconscious I am still the one who dreams of being the fixed of the family! Years of study and therapy have gotten me to a healthy place of creating healthy commu ities of healing for those who want it....not need it....want it and are willing to work...
Book recommendations are What happened to you by Dr Bruce Perry and Oprah and any books on addiction and the brain by Dr Amen or Dr Carolin Leaf
What we now know about the brain and addiction explains the why of their behaviors that we have all found to be so baffling and that set the us crstage make us crazy without alcohol!
As an adult child of an abusive A (9 on an ACE) who buried 3 qualifiers in their disease I have studied this subject ingensely for years and it helps put the puzzle together.
In the other thread a recovered A commented that he always believed he would die by fire passed out drunk. The tragic stories of destruction by alcohol...
So..here's a crazy story about an A....a man who I am doing a documentary about who scorched his butt to third degree burns and had to be hospitalized and debrided and treated. He was also run over by a semi and dragged 6 blocks, his legs crushed, in coma for 6 months and still kept drinking! Got run over by an Asplund truck and then a car...he has 1200 pages of hospital records and over 90 emergency visits at one hospital!
Over 15 Baker Acts and over 100 arrests for homelessness... He has spent almost 12 years in jail for homelessness, open container, disorderly intox....etc.
How do you burn your butt drunk? You black out and your campfire sets the tent on fire and you get a burnt butt!
40 years of homelessness and blackout drinking...well known to cops, judges, jailers, psych units and soup kitchens....
Today. He's sober and has his disability check each month and is buying his own RV.....
What happened to his brain? How did he change his brain ( I call it broke brain syndrome)?....
His story is tragic from conception to today as he still has challenges and consequences he is facing sober....
Unraveling what happened to the A that is the core of why they drink is very often rooted in trauma, abuse, attachment disorder, chaos and dysfunction in embryo and early childhood....why we often attracted to these broken men and women is rooted in our own broke brain syndrome!
Deep down in my unconscious I am still the one who dreams of being the fixed of the family! Years of study and therapy have gotten me to a healthy place of creating healthy commu ities of healing for those who want it....not need it....want it and are willing to work...
Book recommendations are What happened to you by Dr Bruce Perry and Oprah and any books on addiction and the brain by Dr Amen or Dr Carolin Leaf
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Originally Posted by Hopeworks
At the beach being chill and on a phone texting... I can spell and am sober! Not going to fix misspellings...going to walk the beach and watch the sun rising!
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Originally Posted by Eauchiche
My question to re-introducing substances would be “why?”
They do no good for anybody.
They do no good for anybody.
It’s a good question! At the time, I think my husband was beginning to think complete abstinence still gave substance this hold on him mentally—the hold of fear. He wanted to get to a place where he could truly be indifferent to substances. It sounded like a plausible theory to me, and I found some research that maybe-kinda-sorta supported the idea! 😂
In hindsight, I think there was a lot of denial, and a lot of “reasons” that sounded good but weren’t real. Now, from my own experience and those of close friends with ALOs, I think the reintroduction of any substances usually only leaves about a year (max) until some really bad situations/behavior begin again.
To be fair: I’m sure there are some people who inappropriately lean on substances in hard times, but don’t necessarily create a full addiction response, who are able to be sober for a while, heal the underlying psychological and emotional issues, and then resume non-addict levels of alcohol consumption.
But I think it’s probably not the same for people whose genetics and brain chemistry are truly different and wired for addiction. I think getting over “that fear” can absolutely be internal, and doesn’t require drinking or smoking again to get over.
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How do you burn your butt drunk?
Or you can pass out on a heating pad for your back night after night, I know someone who did that. Third degree burns, as well.
There is a continuum of recovery from codependence as well. I love my current partner dearly, but he's a hoarder. Maybe not TV-worthy, but on the spectrum. The controlling part of me wants to scream, "You never even look at this stuff! Throw it away!" The mature recovering me says, "This room needs to be ------ and ------ so I'm not ashamed to have people over." Mature recovering me realizes one day his things - and he - will be gone forever, and accepting him as he is part of having a successful relationship.
Still bugs the heck outta me.
Or you can pass out on a heating pad for your back night after night, I know someone who did that. Third degree burns, as well.
There is a continuum of recovery from codependence as well. I love my current partner dearly, but he's a hoarder. Maybe not TV-worthy, but on the spectrum. The controlling part of me wants to scream, "You never even look at this stuff! Throw it away!" The mature recovering me says, "This room needs to be ------ and ------ so I'm not ashamed to have people over." Mature recovering me realizes one day his things - and he - will be gone forever, and accepting him as he is part of having a successful relationship.
Still bugs the heck outta me.
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