JTLor3

I was in a relationship with an alcoholic woman. Initially I had a few drinks with her now-and-then, but when her drinking started to become excessive, I ditched alcohol and went 5 years sober. Despite this, her drinking only got worse. (Self-esteem issues and anxiety.) She didn't have a driving licence, and became very aggravated and difficult when I refused to go buy her alcohol, and every day I bought her beer and wine. This was not only to avoid fighting, but I sincerely believed that decisions have to come from a person's free will. Although she totally ruined her health, and later had a fall and violently hurt herself, I still believe I had done the right thing by furnishing her. And here's fact: the psychologists all agree with me. I've been watching lots of youtube presentations on addiction, and every one of those psychologists say the same thing - that stopping has to come from the person's own free will. Regulation and repression are unanimously condemned by psychologists. I hope people here would stop using the word 'enabling', as it mostly just demonstrates ignorance of psychologic research.

Male, 40

Dee74

Well you're entitled to your opinion.

I get that it might seem more loving to supply them with what they want, but stopping by free will is very unlikely to happen when an alcoholic has booze 'on tap' and someone to clean up the messes they make,courtesy of a well meaning but misguided friend (source: my own 20year alcoholic career)

D

JTLor3

My opinion doesn't matter much. What matters is professional psychologistss, who all say that's how it is. They condemn controlling the person by repression/regulation.

Dee74

Not buying someone booze is not repression or regulation.
Have a good day JTLor

D

Bernadette

I'm quite up to date on psychological research. You are correct that an addict will only stop when they engage their own desire to stop. But enabling is definitely a real thing especially in the life of an addict and their friends and family. I think the concept of enabling should be well understood as meaning doing something for someone that they can do for themselves, and/or doing something for someone that continues or contributes to a harmful behavior or situation.

Fo me as the sister and daughter of alcoholics I chose to stop enabling their drinking by providing alcohol or money for alcohol to them. Doesn't matter that they didn't stop drinking when I stopped enabling them, it mattered to ME that I stopped participating in a process that was seriously harming them. I don't want to score points for Team Alcohol that is killing them. It was important for MY mental health to stop enabling (or use the word "helping" or "serving") them.

It's not my fault that they choose to drink. Never was, never will be. But I stopped buying alcohol for them just like I would think twice before tossing gasoline on a blazing-out-of-control fire. Does that make sense?

"What matters is professional psychologistss, who all say that's how it is. They condemn controlling the person by repression/regulation."

Right. I felt very controlled by my A brothers insisting I buy them booze or drive them somewhere or pay their overdue bills. They were trying to control me by making me feel bad for "not helping" them. I don't have to buy ANYONE booze! No is a complete sentence. I am not repressing or controlling any living person by saying NO!

Peace,
B

Macyc

She doesn’t drive. Door dash delivers alcohol. She could get it herself. Whether it’s enabling or not, I wouldn’t use my time to go to the store regularly, to buy something for someone that harms them. If my son, daughter, sister, brother or friend engaged in using drugs, I wouldn’t drive them to the drug dealer. I’d be scared to do so. How’s it any different with alcohol if someone is an alcoholic? Because it’s legal? I don’t know, I don’t think I ever “enabled” my ah. His drinking left a path of destruction for our family. Broken promises, lies, repeated disappointments, and so on. I didn’t enable him to do that. He just did it. I asked him to stop. I begged him to stop. I’d barter, compromise, tried to explain, hope, on and on. Nothing worked. I didn’t enable him though. Unless not leaving long ago is enabling but I don’t see how so. Doubt he cared if I left. Or stayed. Nothing mattered.

PeacefulWater12

Maybe the word bothers you because in some way you feel criticised or condemned by it. Inside you feel guilty and the word touches this pain.

Interestingly lots of drinker strongly object to the word "alcoholic" for these similar reasons.

I know I only react to things if that touch some pain within me.

Sorry for what you have been through. Being around a drinker is so very painful and damaging. Great job on managing to get and stay sober.

Bute

Not buying alcohol for another person, I would not agree that this is an attempt to regulate or repress their want to drink. You're not stopping them from obtaining alcohol, nor consuming it - you are just not allowing yourself to be used to buy it.
Would one buy a bag of heroin for a drug addict, as not to, would be attempting to regulate and repress them?
I cannot prevent anyone, doing anything - however, I do not have to involve myself in it, nor purchase the very thing, that is killing them.
Much Love
Bute x

Eauchiche

Dear JTL
I think the "psychological research" you point to is suspect. It isn't the word of God.
Since you mention regulation, I would like to point out that I am a member of the WCTU. We believe the only good use for alcohol is as a disinfectant or solvent. I think Prohibition was one of the best things to ever happen to this country. If it hadn't been repealed, think about how many families would have been spared the pain of losing a loved one to alcohol.

All that being said, both you AND your friend have "free will," although I believe it becomes compromised when someone is enslaved to alcohol or hooked into the alcoholic's perverted worldview.

You can be friends with whomever you want. She can drink as much as she wants. If you want to blow your money on her drinks, you are free to do so.

This is a website for people recovering from the stuff I described above. If you are just here to start an argument, well, that makes you a troll.

velma929

I'd be intrigued to see 'all the psychologists' that agree on something like this, and in particular the context in which such a statement was presented.

Of course, pouring booze down the drain and counting drinks / giving the addict permission to have a set amount doesn't work. All that is written here, almost daily. So is the that the concept that addict will only quit when he or she wishes to. Helping someone get more drugs or protecting him/her from the consequences of addiction isn't the same thing at all. It's acknowledging a person's sovereignty over his/her own life. Doing for someone something he or she should and can do for himself isn't helping or respectful. It's infantilizing.

BlownOne

I smell troll. There isn't a psychologist on earth who is going to tell a person who is living with an active alcoholic that furnishing that person with alcohol is a good idea. Also, regulation and repression presupposes no alternative for the addict to get that they want other than thru the "enabler". And to that end, repression? Seriously? How does the definition of repression even apply in this context? I think there's a gross misunderstanding on the OP's part.

HopeUnending

With all due respect, and I thought like you while deep in my own sickness, but enabling IS quite real and quite destructive to an addict AND the one enabling. Since we cannot Cure, Control, or Cause an alcoholic to drink or not- yes I agree enabling does not change whether or not an alcoholic will drink. But to disregard the destruction (psychologically speaking included) enabling can cause to an alcoholic and those enabling them especially, is grossly and negligently ignorant!
I'll stick with the 86 years, and 70 years of actual evidence not opinion from AA and Al-anon respectively, that show/say otherwise. I will continue to give the term "enabling" it's rightful, substantial place in addiction, insanity and recovery thereof.
I can tell you this from what happened to me and my alcoholic husband. I'm an Al-anon member in recovery, he in AA working recovery. I stopped enabling my husband in every way I had been- he too has no license. Guess what initially it didn't stop him from drinking, he found a way to get booze as any alcoholic will😜. BUT, it did help ME not feel so insane, among other feelings from always begrudgingly buying alcohol, fixing his mistakes, defending or explaining his way out of situations, lying or keeping his behavior secrets etc. Me enabling him didn't do not one positive thing for me or him, but sure did create a plethora of negative things.
What enabling does is it prevents an alcoholic/addict from experiencing their natural course of consequences from drinking. It creates a safety net to prevent the harsh, yet typically life-changing, plunge to rock bottom. This is where if ever possible the alcoholic may choose to attain recovery.

honeypig

Yep.

JTLor3

Basically this would have been stopping them from obtaining alcohol, since after she ruined her health, she could not manage stairs or go shopping independently. The psychology videos on youtube (they're not in english) strongly advise against saying to someone: "Stop drinking!" The correct way given is to persuade them, by certain questions etc. I acknowledge that I have my own agency, but in refusing to furnish a partner who is unable to get alcohol himself/herself, one should probably remove themselves from his/her life. Otherwise refusing is tantamount to saying "Stop drinking!"


No. Ordering alcohol from abroad is possible (I've done so myself), but there is no supplier who can legally deliver alcohol within the country where I live.

See above why the right way is not to ask or tell to someone to stop. Maybe this sounds gutless, but I was scared what would happen if I failed to comply. (She would get mad at me, leave me, etc.)

I don't like the idea that there should be a Big Brother to nanny adult human beings, especially not concerning their own health. Such a police state has no right to exist IMO. (And the money I blew on her drinks was her own.)

I'm here because I suffer from guilt, and from having been unjustly shamed (by relatives). But in light of the psychological presentations, I believe that guilt is misplaced.

Cookie314

JT, I know YouTube is a great resource for learning, but it is not the end all for perfect knowledge. I don't know what videos you're watching, but I do know that if you searched for videos about the psychology behind enabling, you will find those as well. I'm not saying the ones you're citing are entirely wrong or bad, especially not without seeing them, but I would try expanding your sources.

I can understand the point you're making here, and I agree that you cannot simply tell an addict to stop drinking, or give advice and expect it to be heeded. That said, there is a difference between trying to persuade them to stop, and being so afraid of conflict that you go the other direction, and encourage their drinking. To be honest, you sound like you are struggling with coming to terms with being in an abusive relationship. Your next quotes in particular show this:


I don't know your familial or cultural differences, but I can tell you that the feelings you're experiencing right now are very normal for someone suffering from abuse. Abuse thrives in a vacuum, and you really need to take a step back and look at your support network. You describe being shamed by your relatives, isolated in caring and providing for your partner, and suffering from guilt and fear of punishment for taking wrong actions. This is the textbook scenario for abusers to flourish in. You need to branch out to a support network that will not shame or hurt you, and cut ties with the people who are hurting you. It sucks to do, especially if they're family, but ask yourself: what is staying in this situation actually doing for you?

I understand being afraid of confrontation, being hurt or yelled at, and shamed by family (well, my mother in law specifically, but she counts as family in a technical sense). The thought of leaving is so scary, and you feel guilty for abandoning this person, and relationship, but if you look at things clearly, staying had only caused pain for both of you. You need to take back control of your life, and focus on yourself.

You say that the videos say not to try to convince someone to stop, but also not encourage them to drink right? Then the best way to ensure you do both is to remove yourself from the relationship entirely. You need to get yourself to somewhere safe, and free yourself from the toxic people you are currently surrounded by.

velma929

With post like the OP's I'm reminded of a work experience I had, decades ago. "Joe" was supposed to be a manager, or assistant manager for the business where I was employed. He was rude, abusive and we found out later, sort of pilfering from the business. Every time someone called him out to the owner, the owner would lecture him, tell him he had to fix the problem or XYZ would happen, and Joe would be a little better - for a little while. Then it was back to the usual routine. XYZ never occurred.

After several years of this, Owner had enough and finally fired Joe. Joe went downhill fast, ended up homeless for a while, eventually got electroshock therapy for depression, but never got back on track. I've often wondered what would have happened if Joe had experienced the consequence of getting fired - before he was so out of control. Maybe - just maybe he'd have gotten help sooner and turned things around. Maybe not, but the owner enabling his behavior didn't help Joe, and only made the rest of us miserable. The lectures did absolutely nothing, but consequences might have.

Bekindalways

Heya Jtlor3, It sounds like you have been through it and then some. Ugh.

I'm a bit confused. Are you still living with your alcoholic wife?

trailmix

I personally don't think it is tantamount to saying stop drinking, but can be perceived that way if you like. But maybe it's not a good idea to twist what they say to get rid of some of your guilt.

I remember your original posts and the situation. She can't get alcohol, you got it for her, it all blew up and the family blamed you. Well their blame is useless and should be ignored. You may have obtained the alcohol but you didn't force her to drink it.

The word enable means "give (someone or something) the authority or means to do something." Well you did give her the means to do something so yes, you did enable her to drink.

The fact that you were worried she would leave you if you didn't comply is beside the point. Another fact is, it doesn't matter what anyone calls it. She wanted to drink, you bought her drinks so she wouldn't leave you. That's that. That happened. It really would probably be in your best interests to just accept that. What her family thinks of you, well you can't change that really can you. That's out of your control.

No judgement here by the way.

JTLor3

No, I blew up when she requested alcohol, the very same day after she nearly killed herself and got back from the hospital with a two inch scar on her head, after she seemingly had expressed regret. (With that context, her expression of regret made no sense to me.) She left me when I called her out.

Anyway, I want to say I appreciate all the constructive posts.

Cookie314

Ah, I had misunderstood as well, and thought you were still living with her. I'm sorry things came to such a head, I definitely understand being stressed out from things blowing up around you.

That said, I think you should still seek out help and support for abuse. Living in fear of repercussions for every action is so damaging. There are multiple kinds of abuse as well, not just physical. The lies and manipulations addicts use on us are often types of mental and emotional abuse. It's normal to feel hurt and confused when someone's actions cause you pain, and your reactions to that cause others to take it out on you. It sounds like your family really needs education on addiction.

If you really are separated from her, I would take the time to cement that separation and cut what ties you can. Clearly your influence there wasn't enough to stop her from drinking, so if she's going to drink anyways, why not focus on yourself instead?