Macyc

I found a local meeting. It confused me more. The meeting was around the topic of control. Discussions revolves around not playing a victim or a martyr.


I don’t know how to give up control over something I’ve never had a shred of control over. I can identify one behavior I tried to engage in repeatedly. Trying to tell AH how I felt. I don’t know I did that to try and control anything. I did it to try and resolve something.

I don’t relate to being a martyr. Or victim.

I feel sad. I feel hurt. I don’t think I’m perfect. In fact I believe I am as flawed as anyone else.

so I feel more confused and worse by this meeting tonight. I don’t want to control anything.

so I don’t get it. Am I in denial?

Ariesagain

I think there may be a broad continuum among codependents, just as there is among addicts. I will let those with experience in AlAnon speak to the specifics, but the one thing that might resonate with you addresses the dysfunctional belief that you’re responsible for his behavior, yes? That if you just say the right things, or bail him out enough times, or ignore your own needs, or cover up for his actions, or put up with enough abuse, or acquiesce to enough of his demands, that might change his behavior. In other words, the belief that you’re responsible for his choices.
Again, I don’t know that much about it, but I believe a fundamental Al-anon tenet is the requirement to stop taking responsibility for his choices and leave him to it... and stay on your side of the street, as the saying goes.
It’s my belief that you’re dealing with a broader issue than “just” addiction with your husband. So AlAnon may not address your situation in a way you can relate to. But it’s certainly worth a try, yes?

edoering

For myself, I often have to ask if I want to tell my AH how he’s affecting me for myself or to try to change him. I only set myself up for misery if I secretly hope that saying “the right thing” will magically change my AH. And in a way, that is me trying to control the situation, and my AH. But if I’m saying it because in someway it helps or even heals me to get it out, if it’s meaningful in to me in some way, then it’s absolutely in my power to make that choice! I think the meetings just want to challenge us to be really honest with ourselves about what we hope to accomplish.

Also, sometimes you have to find the right group! Nar-Anon suited me and my situation the best, for instance.

PeacefulWater12

Hey Macy

I saw in another thread mention that your husband may well have a Personality Disorder. I think this was true for my late AH too. found the website "Out of the Fog" an excellent help. There is loads of information and also a forum.

I think I have seen that other members of this group also belong to the "Out of the Fog" site too. I found using both this site and Out of the Fog an enormous help.

It seems the two issues quite often go hand in hand.

dandylion

Macy......I have seen it written by domestic violence groups that for those who are experiencing out and out abuse, that alanon may not be the best choice---that seeking the support and help of those trained in abuse counseling is the safest route to take---at least, at first. The reasoning is, that some of the techniques or suggestions may place the person in greater danger.
I am not a member of alanon---so I want to be clear that I am not speaking for alanon, nor am I speaking against alanon.
I am concerned that you are in an abusive situation that there is more pathology than just addiction going on, in your particular situation.

I think that you are having a lot of material thrown your way at one time. It can be a lot to try to absorb and understand everything so rapidly, I think.
I think it is good that you are asking for explanations for what you are seeking to understand. I don't think that anyone should jut swallow, whole, everything that is said to them without contemplation and evaluation.
One thing that has helped me, in such situations, is this---"if the shoe fit's, wear it"....in other words, take what works for you, and leave the rest.

velma929

Truthfully, I never cared for AlAnon *meetings* but I managed to work on the ideas on my own.
I gradually realized Late AH wasn't drinking *at* me. He was just drinking. He wasn't so much abusive as dismissive. So, he was out of work (fired from three jobs the last six years of his life). I didn't ask what he did all day, which only would have started a fight. He did pretty much nothing, but starting a conversation about that would have been >me< starting a fight, wouldn't it?

It took a while to learn to stay on my side of the street. The one time I strayed big time: I got to a hobby group, and someone came to me and said, "You need to talk to Bob about calling Doris all the time, it's freaking her out." Come to find out, when I wasn't home, AH was calling 18-year-old Doris, whom he had a crush on. Last couple times he called, he was really, really drunk and she didn't know what to do, and I guess she handed the phone over to her father. I got home loaded for bear, and asked WTH was going on. He got real quiet and said that wasn't going to happen any more. I guess Doris' father gave him H--- . Anyway, I probably couldn't have stopped him, no matter what I did. I have no idea what Doris' dad said, but I guess it did the trick. In spite of this Doris liked AH, the way 18-year-olds are sometimes kind to old people they feel sorry for. She came to his funeral.

The last couple years before he died, I gave mostly non-committal answers when he spoke to me, and even less often started a conversation with my qualifier. There was no point to it. Even when I agreed with him, he'd change his mind mid-way through the conversation and we'd still end up disagreeing. I guess the fighting may have been the point for him; he just didn't want to interact with me at all. Making every interaction unpleasant advanced that goal. Does this sound like anyone you know?

Perhaps your version of control is thinking you can force him to hear and understand you, and acknowledge his behavior. Sadly, that's not possible until HE wants to do that. I understand how frustrating that is - trust me. When I was cleaning up AH's vomit from his chemo treatment, it DID occur to me that Doris, (or Tammy, or Amber, or Lori) wouldn't do this for him, and he had treated them with a great deal more consideration than he had me, the last few years. He had a lot of crushes he wasn't very discreet about. The resolution (when there is any) comes from within ourselves.

FallenAngelina

Macy, I encourage you to try different meeting places and times, either in person or on Zoom. The general recommendation is to give AlAnon six tries in six different groups before deciding whether the program is for you. Going to one meeting really won't be enough to give you a sense of the program. There's a lot to take in and so very much more to it than the one topic of control and there's lot more to the program than just going meetings. Anyone who has or had a problem drinker in their life can benefit greatly from this community.

Myself, I was never one to try and control my ABF's drinking and I never got involved in enabling or rescuing, either. What brought me to AlAnon (because I was desperate and nothing else was working for me) was my anxiety and worry. My anxiety was through the roof. I never went to AlAnon because I was a classic codependent. I did not feel like a victim or martyr. I was not a control freak and like you, I certainly had no illusions that I could control anyone's drinking. I went because I had terrible anxiety in my relationship. I've since immersed myself in the program (which again, is so very much more than just going to meetings) because the community is a fruitful, nourishing and healthy place for me to grow and learn how to live a happier life. AlAnon is not a crisis clinic, it's a lifetime program - meant to be taken slowly but surely.

honeypig

I'd like to echo FA here. Different meetings can indeed feel VERY different. Yes, all Alanon meetings use the same 12 Steps and 12 Traditions, but depending on the format of the meeting and the different personalities present, any given meeting might be more useful or less useful, more comfortable or less comfortable, to me. I don't know if you have this available to you where you are, but in my area, there were at least 2 "beginner's meetings", where there were several Alanon "old hands" who dedicated small meetings specifically to newcomers, so they could get their bearings, ask questions, and start to feel at home. My first meeting, in fact, was one of these beginner's meetings.

Another thing that I found helpful was doing a lot of reading of Alanon literature, to sort of supercharge my understanding of what was being said at meetings. Your local Alanon central office almost certainly has books for sale. If that's too pricey for you (it was for me!), you can find tons of used Alanon books on Amazon for very, very reasonable prices (plus I kind of liked the idea that someone else, in my same situation, had held that book before me).

Some of the ones I'd recommend are "How Alanon Works For Families and Friends of Alcoholics" and "Paths to Recovery." There are also several different daily readers that use a "page a day" format, offering a different concept each day--these would be "One Day at a Time in Alanon", "Courage to Change" and "Hope for Today."

I see that some of those books are available for Kindle, so that's a possible route too. There are also podcasts and other audio available. Here are links to a couple of podcasts:

https://al-anon.org/newcomers/first-...anon-recovery/

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcas...ry/id591460709

I applaud you for making it to your first Alanon meeting. When you're new, it certainly CAN seem like the group is all made up of insiders, and there's a lot of jargon and shorthand that you don't really understand. One of the Alanon slogans is "Take what you like and leave the rest." I'd reword that slightly to say "Take what you understand and what you feel applies and leave the rest." I really do hope you try a few more meetings, and that you're able to spend some time reading or listening to the books and podcasts I mentioned. I really think those things will help you understand what's going on at the meetings.

macyc, you seem to be really willing to do the work, and that isn't all that common. Pat yourself on the back and know that b/c of your willingness to think, to work, to look inside and to ask for help when you need it, you will come through this as a better, stronger, far happier person than you've ever been!

Macyc

Here’s what I think:

I think I’ve been deeply effected by AH and his way, abuse. Character defects.

I think I’ve continued to try to resolve something in a way I would with a healthy person. I think that has continued to damage me because of the result was destructive and harmful.
It’s as if I’ve grown to want him to take accountability for the awful baggage he places on me like I want oxygen if I’m under water too long. Why? Because if he’d do that, my life would be safe. I wouldn’t be faced with what I’m faced with. He isn’t going to so I am faced with what I’m faced with.

now, since I’ve done that, combined with the effects of all he’s done and put on me, I feel ill equipped to deal with it. Is that a cop out? I’d prefer the above way. That would be my choice if I had one in regard to that aspect. But I don’t. That sucks.

so here I am......... maybe it’s me. Maybe he’s right. If he is, that’s awful. I wouldn’t want to treat anyone the way he says I do. I’d want to correct that. In myself and show that person I care about that I’m sorry and would never do it again. I can’t quite do that because I don’t do the things he says I do. But maybe I do and I’m like him and deny it and lie about it like he says. If I’m that way would I know?

round and round that goes.

my daughter telling me “mom it isn’t you, look.... listen to this, I promise it isn’t.”

are you sure? Maybe she doesn’t like him because of me like he says.

he says. He says. He says.


im embarrassed of how I feel this way.

dandylion

Macy.......the way you describe that you are feeling is not unusual or uncommon in those who have been subjected to chronic abuse over a period of time. That kind of treatment can and does wear down your self esteem, self confidence and crumbles your normal ego boundaries. It results in the kind of self doubt that you describe. It causes confusion and even the ability to even think clearly, sometimes. It feels like a loss of self----but, it wont stay that way if one is allowed a nourishing environment with support from healthy and caring others----in the Absence of the ongoing abuse.
There are professionals who are specially trained in abuse and experienced in dealing with the consequences and damage that are the consequences from abuse. There are counselors and therapists and psychologists and social workers whose main work is in this field. I really, really hope that you will avail yourself of this specialized type of support. It does not mean that you can't pursue any other kinds of support that you would like. It will not conflict. In fact, you can use all of the support that you can get.
This journey is just to hard for anyone to go alone.
I
It is great that you have such an insightful and compassionate daughter. How fortunate. You wouldn't want her to have to be your only support system----because that would be too much on th shoulder of a young woman.....and, remember that she has been impacted by all of this herself and she will be needing some independent support for herself, also. I know that you wouldn't want to inadvertently lead her into a lifetime of being a co/-dependent care taker person. That can and does happen to some young people who have been raised in an alcoholic/dysfunctional home.
I hope that you will share with her the resources that you are learning about and encourage her to do her own self care. Prevention is the best cure, isn't it?

trailmix

I hope you can get rid of some of that embarrassment. At least I hope you aren't embarrassed around us!

You know, this dance you are in (nightmare dance) was not created in a vacuum. You have been at this a long time, your ways are also learned over time.

Sometimes someone here will say - you already have your answer, you just don't like it. That is what you are describing above and yes it does suck!

You know yourself deep down (even though at this point it's probably a bit confusing). The fact that you are questioning yourself is good. I was married once to a physically abusive husband. The physical abuse took place early on in the relationship and marriage (and yes I married him anyway lol). That stopped after a while, but the threat was always there. When we would argue (which was so very often) he would eventually get enraged and there came a point in that exchange where I would stop, because I knew what the next point was.

Now, am I am arguer, yelling person by nature? I'm not a push over but no, I'm not aggressive, I don't like to argue but I did for years. After we divorced I didn't have to anymore. No one was picking a fight, no one was being so hugely unreasonable I felt I had to defend my ground. I have barely raised my voice since, maybe twice?

Point being, did he "make" me a certain way? No, I was still who I am but I did have to defend myself, had to. Generally when these fights were over, he would come back and say, you were right, not helpful, but makes the point.

You seem to have taken a more passive stance (neither stance is right or wrong, it just is), but are you those things or are you just trying to cope in a wholly dysfunctional situation.

Now for the blunt part. From what you have said about him, he is a complete ass. I cannot imagine under any circumstance why anyone (he) would be "forced" to react that way to another person (you).

You are certainly not the first person to bring up this kind of situation and be questioning yourself. Really it's what healthy people do. We are always learning about ourselves and when we think we might have done something wrong or said something wrong, we review it, that's normal. So your reaction I see as normal, your review of your actions and words is normal.

The relationship is not normal, he is not normal.

Steely

https://thestellaprize.com.au/prize/...ou-made-me-do/

I don't know what this is like but am going to buy. Thought might help someone.

Macyc

Thanks everyone. Especially for saying I’m doing something “healthy.” Questioning myself and so on, doesn’t feel healthy. To hear that it is does being me some comfort that the healthy parts of me are still in tact.

I was fighting, fighting to be healthy.

in doing that, it made me feel weak because who has to fight for that? I guess those of us living in dysfunction.

blah. I will most definitely get support for my daughter. No, I wouldn’t want to rely on her and very much am, her mother. That is one thing I’ve kept stable. I’m honest with her when she asks and am careful to ask her questions back. Long ago a therapist gave me this guide...... if she says something about her dad, like “I heard dad say......” I should respond like “how did that make you feel?” And listen. And reply like “yes, if I heard that I think I would feel the same way. I may also feel.......” and add anything else. Followed up with “you do know nothing I do or you do can prevent how he behaves. Or cause it. You know that don’t you.” And so on.

she told me this because ah always told me when she says things I should tell her “he doesn’t mean it, he loves you. He would never....” and that didn’t feel right. It felt like a lie.

she thinks I’m the strongest person she knows. Maybe it does take a strong person to be able to live in that, not a weak one. Perhaps that’s the trick, ah doesn’t want me to know how strong I am. So he likes to make me feel weak.

My daughter has also been in counseling before, last time we separated. Her counselor said she was remarkable. Had no bond to her dad and that in this case, that was a saving grace. Maybe it is, sad as that sounds.

she’s free to tell me anything as well. I know she knows that. I listen. I can’t always solve but I believe her. I don’t scold or correct her on matters of the heart. And somehow, she knows her worth. For that I am so grateful and proud.

she said she doesn’t anything her dad. She said she wouldn’t waste her time. I believe her, it shows in her actions. Isn’t just her words. Still, I will get her a safe place to speak to someone besides me and be validated and held up in who she is. It’s important no doubt.

I will also find someone for me to talk to. It’ll be first on my list Monday morning.

thanks everyone!

nikegoddess112

I'm years into recovery through Al-Anon now, supplemented by these forums, domestic abuse recovery help, etc. My first Al-Anon year was very confusing. I'm extremely satisfied with the work I did simply by continuing to show up