The insanity of it all

Old 04-21-2021, 08:25 AM
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The insanity of it all

Things really can't get much more crazy, can they? Yes, oh yes, they can. I hate alcohol anymore and I think I'm gradually becoming a teetotaler because I just hate how it's destroyed my AH and our marriage, along with everything else in the path of destruction.

I know my marriage has been over for quite some time now, I just can't quite make the move to change the living situation. I feel like I'm getting forced out of the house, and I hate him for that. The rare moments of his lucidity sometimes gives me hope that perhaps "this time" he'll get it. He'll see the light and know what needs to be done, and will do it. It's so laughable anymore because he's proven to me time and time again that he's not capable of change. He doesn't want to, truly, even though he talks about how miserable he is. It's so frustrating.

I left the home back in late Jan/early Feb. I went back to see how things would change. They didn't, at least for long. He's not a good husband and not a good friend. So, why am I still here?!
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Old 04-21-2021, 08:37 AM
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Flower959, I'm sorry you are going through this and I understand. I read something a long time ago that has hit home recently (Based on your post I'm making a pronoun assumption but I apologize if you don't identify as female): Research has indicated that women stay in relationships two years longer than they should. You love him, you have been hopeful that the relationship could improve, but it hasn't. Another thing I just realized, is that in the throes of addiction, most addicts cannot see the continual harm they've caused, so when they start coming down and you're an emotional and physical mess, they're just ready to move onto the better parts, because they don't remember/ weren't really "there" for the bad stuff,so no real healing can take place. Hang in there, allow yourself to feel whatever you need to feel, and know at the end of the day, when you are ready, you are strong enough to move on to a healthier place.
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Old 04-21-2021, 09:10 AM
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flower.......you ask us "why am I still here?"......Well. flower, you tell US why you are still there....lol. After all, you know yourself better than we will ever be able to. I mean, while we know certain things that you have shared, we have never met you and cannot possibly know you completely and know all of your life experiences. You have been in your own skin from the beginning!

I am going to do some spitballing, here and go out on a limb-----I am guessing that it might have something to do with fear---something that you are afraid of if you leave your current zone of comfort---or, more properly terms as your "zone of familiarity". We humans seem to want familiarity and certainty very, very much----and, so the unknown can really shut many of us down.
I am wondering if I am even warm on this.....for you....?
If so....what are your biggest fears? Can you even say them or know what they are? I know, that, sometimes, for my self, it is even scary to say my fears to my self, because it makes me think about them.
Can you list your three biggest fears of what would happen if you were to stay gone from this relationship?
If you can list them, then, it is possible that we could help you to examine them and help you to begin to really face them....
I am wondering if you have enough support from some real life others....because this is simply too hard for anyone to go alone. We do need other people.....
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Old 04-21-2021, 09:58 AM
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Originally Posted by flower959 View Post
I hate alcohol anymore and I think I'm gradually becoming a teetotaler because I just hate how it's destroyed my AH and our marriage, along with everything else in the path of destruction.
Me too! In the early days of my relationship I had secret (youthful) hopes that he would recover so “well” that someday I could just have a drink at dinner or smoke a little weed with my husband. I thought that was something to look forward to in a “grownup” relationship. I’m very cautious in general, and never really partied as a kid, so I looked forward to a “safe place” to try some things in moderation. Well, I’ve learned two things: 1) the side effects and price of weed and alcohol outweigh any mildly pleasant effects just for myself, and 2) my AH and I are fundamentally different in that moderation isn’t actually possible for him the way it is for me. (For the record, I never pressured my husband to reintroduce substances ever! I just naively didn’t stop him when he assured me he was ready to reintroduce. In hindsight, I don’t think I could have stopped him even if I had tried).


Originally Posted by flower959 View Post
I feel like I'm getting forced out of the house, and I hate him for that.
Ugh, I FEEL this. I am a homebody, worked hard to find our apartment, make it cozy, and build a home there together. And now, it was like I was kicked out overnight. As much as it’s breaking my heart, taking really active control over moving out as quickly as possible has helped me feel like I have some power in the situation. I am doing what I can handle to get out on my terms, rather than be left ‘holding the bag’ for him.

Would it help to find a new place you’re excited about building a future in? Or telling him that you’re keeping the house and he needs to leave if that’s possible? Obviously, I have so little knowledge of your situation and complicating factors, and I deeply HATE that one person can destroy a life built by two over so many years. It just doesn’t seem fair or right. But if there are any boundaries you have with regards to your home that are important to you, I hope you get to stand by them, and I just wanted to say I am rooting for you!
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Old 04-21-2021, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by dandylion View Post
flower.......you ask us "why am I still here?"......Well. flower, you tell US why you are still there....lol. After all, you know yourself better than we will ever be able to. I mean, while we know certain things that you have shared, we have never met you and cannot possibly know you completely and know all of your life experiences. You have been in your own skin from the beginning!

I am going to do some spitballing, here and go out on a limb-----I am guessing that it might have something to do with fear---something that you are afraid of if you leave your current zone of comfort---or, more properly terms as your "zone of familiarity". We humans seem to want familiarity and certainty very, very much----and, so the unknown can really shut many of us down.
I am wondering if I am even warm on this.....for you....?
If so....what are your biggest fears? Can you even say them or know what they are? I know, that, sometimes, for my self, it is even scary to say my fears to my self, because it makes me think about them.
Can you list your three biggest fears of what would happen if you were to stay gone from this relationship?
If you can list them, then, it is possible that we could help you to examine them and help you to begin to really face them....
I am wondering if you have enough support from some real life others....because this is simply too hard for anyone to go alone. We do need other people.....
I guess it was really just thinking out loud sort of thing. I don't really expect anyone to be able to tell me really why I'm still here. I'm frustrated with myself because I KNOW that I deserve better yet I'm paralyzed. I've done some things to prepare to leave but I'm still here.

Yes, I have fears of course but there are quite a few things that run through my mind. Let me see if I can pinpoint my top 3.
1. Fear of being lonely. Not alone, but lonely. I don't think that I have a very strong support system, and I've gradually lost friends over the years whether it's because I'm embarrassed by him and have isolated myself from others to avoid that or whether it's because others have steered clear because of his behaviors. If I felt lonely, I think that'll lead to depression.
2. I love the house and I don't want to deal with the stress of selling the house and everything that goes with that. He won't leave the house, so I'll have to and I just don't think it'll make any sense for either of us to be the sole person living in this house. It's too much for 1 person. However, I'm basically doing 90% of the work already & maybe even more than that. I actually think that if I were the only one at the house, it would be less work for me. But he won't leave and I can't force him.
3. I don't want to hurt him by leaving and I think it'll devastate him. Yet, he's hurt me by his addiction and continuing to do nothing about it.

These were the top 3 that popped into my head as I was thinking about it. Not necessarily in that order though.
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Old 04-21-2021, 10:48 AM
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Originally Posted by edoering View Post
Me too! In the early days of my relationship I had secret (youthful) hopes that he would recover so “well” that someday I could just have a drink at dinner or smoke a little weed with my husband. I thought that was something to look forward to in a “grownup” relationship. I’m very cautious in general, and never really partied as a kid, so I looked forward to a “safe place” to try some things in moderation. Well, I’ve learned two things: 1) the side effects and price of weed and alcohol outweigh any mildly pleasant effects just for myself, and 2) my AH and I are fundamentally different in that moderation isn’t actually possible for him the way it is for me. (For the record, I never pressured my husband to reintroduce substances ever! I just naively didn’t stop him when he assured me he was ready to reintroduce. In hindsight, I don’t think I could have stopped him even if I had tried).



Ugh, I FEEL this. I am a homebody, worked hard to find our apartment, make it cozy, and build a home there together. And now, it was like I was kicked out overnight. As much as it’s breaking my heart, taking really active control over moving out as quickly as possible has helped me feel like I have some power in the situation. I am doing what I can handle to get out on my terms, rather than be left ‘holding the bag’ for him.

Would it help to find a new place you’re excited about building a future in? Or telling him that you’re keeping the house and he needs to leave if that’s possible? Obviously, I have so little knowledge of your situation and complicating factors, and I deeply HATE that one person can destroy a life built by two over so many years. It just doesn’t seem fair or right. But if there are any boundaries you have with regards to your home that are important to you, I hope you get to stand by them, and I just wanted to say I am rooting for you!
I'm a bit worried about him losing his job. I don't really see how he actually still has it. I would love for him to go back to work in the office because working from home isn't helping the situation. He won't leave the house and I can't force him, so it'd be me getting an apartment. Then what if he loses his job while we have the house and an apartment? Yet, I kinda think I need to get out before that happens. I think if he weren't working, I'd feel more trapped than I already do. I've told him multiple times, especially over the last few months, that he's going to lose everything if he continues this path. It'll be gradually one by one, but he'll lose everything.

I've also come to think that I'm just enabling him by staying. And that puts weight on my shoulders.

Btw, your AH would just reintroduce whatever substances regardless of you or your actions. It's just the way it works. So don't feel like you were responsible and should have "stopped" him.
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Old 04-21-2021, 11:01 AM
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I hear you, sorry you have this to deal with. I hope you find the strength to do what is best for you.
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Old 04-21-2021, 11:21 AM
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Yeah, being concerned about him losing his job and that putting you at financial risk is very stressful! I used to work for a bank, and saw a lot of terrible situations where one spouse’s credit and financial history was tanked due to the other spouse. Or one spouse suddenly harangued by creditors for the other spouse’s debt. I think a great first step is financially protecting yourself, just in case things get worse before they get better.
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Old 04-21-2021, 02:35 PM
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flower.....of the things that you have listed as your fears.....it doesn't look to me like they are in the future....it looks like they are happening, now, or are going to come whether you want them or not.
You have already told him that he is going to loose everything. You are already lonely---having isolated yourself a lot from others. You say that he is not a good husband or a good friend. You stayed and he didn't seek recovery....yu left and he didn't choose recovery....you came back and he didn't choose recovery.
He wants you to stay, and let him continue to spiral into his alcoholism. Because you feel that he will feel hurt if you leave---this means that you will have a front row seat to his alcoholism and all that it entails. This means that you will, by default, martyr yourself for his alcoholism. Does this look like the life that you want for yourself?

As he contnues to drink---loosing his job is very likely (you have said as much)...which means that the house may be lost, anyway.

You have said that the marriage is over.

Perhaps it is time to begin the baby steps of gathering information so that you can face your future as the crap hits the fan. Like talking to lawyers and checking the real estate market...and, making plans to file for divorce or legal separation-----that way you will be ahead of the game...which is going to come......
baby steps...baby steps....that is what gets the ball rolling. A ball in motion tends to stay in motion.
You can sweep a lot under the rug for a while....and, you can bury your head in the sand, for a while....but, it won't stop reality from showing up on your doorstep. Alcoholism is progressive, and this is probably as good as it is going to be.....and, he shows no signs of reaching for genuine recovery---other than some words. Words don't count---only action counts. Not short-term action and not half measures. Lifelong sustained actions are what counts, in the end.
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Old 04-21-2021, 06:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Westgirl View Post
Flower959, I'm sorry you are going through this and I understand. I read something a long time ago that has hit home recently (Based on your post I'm making a pronoun assumption but I apologize if you don't identify as female): Research has indicated that women stay in relationships two years longer than they should. You love him, you have been hopeful that the relationship could improve, but it hasn't. Another thing I just realized, is that in the throes of addiction, most addicts cannot see the continual harm they've caused, so when they start coming down and you're an emotional and physical mess, they're just ready to move onto the better parts, because they don't remember/ weren't really "there" for the bad stuff,so no real healing can take place. Hang in there, allow yourself to feel whatever you need to feel, and know at the end of the day, when you are ready, you are strong enough to move on to a healthier place.
TWO
YEARS?

Try 20
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Old 04-21-2021, 07:28 PM
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Originally Posted by flower959 View Post
Things really can't get much more crazy, can they? Yes, oh yes, they can. I hate alcohol anymore and I think I'm gradually becoming a teetotaler because I just hate how it's destroyed my AH and our marriage, along with everything else in the path of destruction.

I know my marriage has been over for quite some time now, I just can't quite make the move to change the living situation. I feel like I'm getting forced out of the house, and I hate him for that. The rare moments of his lucidity sometimes gives me hope that perhaps "this time" he'll get it. He'll see the light and know what needs to be done, and will do it. It's so laughable anymore because he's proven to me time and time again that he's not capable of change. He doesn't want to, truly, even though he talks about how miserable he is. It's so frustrating.

I left the home back in late Jan/early Feb. I went back to see how things would change. They didn't, at least for long. He's not a good husband and not a good friend. So, why am I still here?!
So sorry Flower959 for your pain but only you can answer the question, 'why are you still here.' It is called hope, hope that he will see the light, hope that he will make a decision to give up drinking, hope that your absense will make a difference to him, hope that if he really loved you, he would see the damage. I am sorry to say but this type of hope will not help you. We stay because we are bogged in the mire of 'hopium.'
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Old 04-22-2021, 06:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Givenup2018 View Post
So sorry Flower959 for your pain but only you can answer the question, 'why are you still here.' It is called hope, hope that he will see the light, hope that he will make a decision to give up drinking, hope that your absense will make a difference to him, hope that if he really loved you, he would see the damage. I am sorry to say but this type of hope will not help you. We stay because we are bogged in the mire of 'hopium.'
Yes, it is hope every so often! Just enough to keep me here.
Sometimes I often think that I need to either stop complaining or actually leave this marriage. Put up or shut up, I guess. Y'all have got to be sick of the complaining yet not taking action. That goes through my mind quite often when I post on here or when I start talking about it to my sister or mom.
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Old 04-22-2021, 07:06 AM
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Originally Posted by dandylion View Post
flower.....of the things that you have listed as your fears.....it doesn't look to me like they are in the future....it looks like they are happening, now, or are going to come whether you want them or not.
You have already told him that he is going to loose everything. You are already lonely---having isolated yourself a lot from others. You say that he is not a good husband or a good friend. You stayed and he didn't seek recovery....yu left and he didn't choose recovery....you came back and he didn't choose recovery.
He wants you to stay, and let him continue to spiral into his alcoholism. Because you feel that he will feel hurt if you leave---this means that you will have a front row seat to his alcoholism and all that it entails. This means that you will, by default, martyr yourself for his alcoholism. Does this look like the life that you want for yourself?

As he contnues to drink---loosing his job is very likely (you have said as much)...which means that the house may be lost, anyway.

You have said that the marriage is over.

Perhaps it is time to begin the baby steps of gathering information so that you can face your future as the crap hits the fan. Like talking to lawyers and checking the real estate market...and, making plans to file for divorce or legal separation-----that way you will be ahead of the game...which is going to come......
baby steps...baby steps....that is what gets the ball rolling. A ball in motion tends to stay in motion.
You can sweep a lot under the rug for a while....and, you can bury your head in the sand, for a while....but, it won't stop reality from showing up on your doorstep. Alcoholism is progressive, and this is probably as good as it is going to be.....and, he shows no signs of reaching for genuine recovery---other than some words. Words don't count---only action counts. Not short-term action and not half measures. Lifelong sustained actions are what counts, in the end.
Yes, I have done things to begin the process but it's just stuck right now. I've talked to a lawyer, but that's been 2 years ago now so the fees have likely changed. I have most of the paperwork filled out for the divorce filing (did that in Dec 2020, so it's outdated already). I didn't pay a retainer so I don't technically have an attorney. I have a savings account set up and am making deposits in it. I've got important paperwork together in 1 spot so it's easily accessible. I have some sentimental things in a box for easy grab; I could work on boxing up remaining items. I have an overnight bag ready, which I've had to use before. I have a place to stay if I need somewhere immediately, which I've also had to use before.

I do think that the divorce lawyer paperwork/retainer paralyzes me; it's just too much of a step forward. I think focusing on just separating would come first. Every so often, I get online & research apartments in the area I want to be (did it yesterday too). I don't want to do it behind his back because I'd done a few things behind his back and I just don't feel good about it. I would like for us to be able to sit down and have a rational conversation about the marriage not working and doing a separation. I'd rather it be a decision that was made TOGETHER. But sober & rational conversations are rare these days. And during those times, I don't want to "ruin" it.
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Old 04-22-2021, 09:24 AM
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He won't leave the house and I can't force him, so it'd be me getting an apartment. Then what if he loses his job while we have the house and an apartment? Yet, I kinda think I need to get out before that happens. I think if he weren't working, I'd feel more trapped than I already do.
He’s going to lose his job, it’s just a question of when, right? And then you’ll be even more trapped. Your words.

I would like for us to be able to sit down and have a rational conversation about the marriage not working and doing a separation. I'd rather it be a decision that was made TOGETHER.
As gently as I can, the days when you had a relationship where you could have rational, cooperative conversations and make adult decisions as a team and then abide by them are pretty much gone, from what you’ve posted. It’s completely understandable that you want this, but it is now a fantasy borne of nostalgia and wishful thinking.

There’s another consideration here, I’m not sure if it’s been mentioned*. As long as you’re married, your credit will be affected by his decisions. And if he hurts someone while he’s drunk (driving, for instance), you could lose everything you have in a lawsuit or defending against one.

You are a smart person. You need to assess the risks with a clear mind, the best you can. At some point, you have to save yourself, yes?



* Oops, I see it was already brought up! But it’s worth saying twice...your options will only continue to narrow as time moves on. I’m sorry you’re going through this.


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Old 04-22-2021, 09:45 AM
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flower......I do understand that you would like to have an amiable, cooperative and rational conversation with him about this---I can imagine that you are the type of person who operates in this way in all of your affairs. And. I also understand your sense of loyalty to him and wanting full transparency---as I imagine that comes from your ability to empathize with other people, I think that anyone who has taken their marriage seriously does feel a sense of loyalty. I consider all of these to be good qualities.
This is why I think that alcoholism is such a Monster to those of us who have loved an alcoholic or addict. In fact, there are two situations that are said to defy the usual "rules" that work in healthy relationships. Those are Addictions and Abuse. These two situations turn the regular relationship rules all topsy turvy.

He will not be able to participate like you want, due to his disease---and he will not be able to prioritize Your welfare. You are going to have to be the one to look after your welfare and ultimate well being (and sanity).
You want to hang on to the periods of "good times". Who among us have not experienced this.!? Actually, this is the critical link that keeps so many people in the cycle of abuse---in abusive relationships. This form of intermittent reinforcement can be very powerful.
As you describe it, for you---it means that you are basically "living on crumbs"---emotional crumbs.
The problem is that, with alcoholism. those crumbs will, over time, become smaller and less frequent.
As it is, the way I understand it, is that you have been drinking your emotional sustenance from a smaller and smaller cup---as you have become more isolated from others and have too few people who have your back to guide you and give practical help as you go through this. Real llfe, face to face persons to help hold your hand. I think you need more helping peeps around you. It makes all the difference.

Yiou are entitled to do whatever you need to do to take care of your own welfare. It is your right.
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