pizza67

I have received a text from NADDH (Narc Alcoholic Dry Drunk Husband) saying that as I haven’t lost weight fast enough and things haven’t improved around here like I said they would if he quit drinking, he is going to “return to moderate drinking at a time of his choosing.” Things wrong with this include him basing his abstinence on me, him not buying into his alcoholism and need for help at all but simply resentfully abstaining to avoid divorce, him ignoring his ongoing narcissistic emotional abuse as the main reason why things haven’t improved, and him thinking that he ever drank moderately. Not to mention that it is no mere coincidence that this is happening right before St. Patrick’s Day, a big nasty mean drunk holiday for him.

I have two reasons for sharing this incident :
1) to vent
2) to ask those of you who have NA exes, and dreaded the inevitable prolonged 💩storm in and out of court—to please please share with me what gave you the wisdom and strength to finally file. Please.

Please don’t respond with guilting me about what I am putting the kids through with him here. I know too well. I need strength, bravery, and wisdom.

trailmix

Hey Pizza, well, I have never been married to an alcoholic narc (thankfully).

I do have something to share though, for what it's worth, which might be just a different perspective.

When we leave a relationship, there is the big question, what am I leaving, can this be fixed (in your situation - no), what am I going to. That's really the bottom line, kind of a pros/cons outlook.

First of all, you are already strong enough. When you need that strength when you go to file or ask him to leave or however you manage it, that strength will be there. After years of abuse I'm sure your self esteem has taken a battering and perhaps, in your mind, you think, wow I can't do that! That's just a thought you know, a feeling, it's not the truth.

Secondly, as dandylion often mentions, if you can live with an alcoholic you absolutely can live on your own (with all that means).

It's not just should you stay or go (or have him go) it's, should you have him leave and cause a fuss (which he may) or should you stay and nothing will change, nothing. You will have years in front of you, day in and out of this same scenario. So worse case scenario, you live in a peaceful "normal" household, without him and he either leaves you alone or you battle him in court. Better to battle in court than in your own house, at the very least you will have support.

As you probably know, when I dated someone with major narcissistic traits, when it all ended it was him who started backing out, because I would not go along with his plans. Narcs don't think they are ever wrong, they believe they are all-knowing. Having that squashed, having someone remove themselves away from them is a huge narcissistic injury. It can go two ways, they can try to retaliate and prove themselves "right" or they will just - go away to tend to their wounds which means getting validation elsewhere, friends (I use that term loosely) family, another relationship (also use that term loosely) - or all of these things.

Far better to battle him in court I would say. You can do this, you just need to set this in motion, that's all, what will happen will happen but you are prepared, you have been preparing for years.

Caramel

Agree.
It was not easy, but it was simple, and once the first step had been taken the rest followed.

Surround yourself with all the advocates and support you can get. There is a lot out there.

Best wishes.

HopeUnending

Hi Pizza, I'm sorry you are dealing with this. I see narc traits in my AH induced by alcohol but he's not this way when sober fortunately. I think that's what makes me struggle with leaving my home. But the high highs and low lows are taking a toll.

I too have been accused of not holding my end of the "deal" which became his reason he "gave up" too. I'm glad you are able to see how it isn't your fault.

You are doing the best you can. Hope things can get better for you and your children.

SmallButMighty

Hi Pizza. I'm sorry your NADDH continues to be a jerk and is doing just exactly as predicted...getting revved up to start drinking again. Things are about to jump right out of the pan and into the fire. I know you know this, which is why you are preparing to take the next steps. I remember all too well how that felt. I'm sorry you are going through it. sorry any of us have. It sucks.

I agree with everything Trailmix said.

I don't have any wisdom to share. Leaving my AXH was the hardest thing I ever did. For me, I just knew when enough was enough. I think I waited too long because I could truly feel myself losing my sanity. It terrified me... but it did propel me to act. I did not want to feel like a crazy lady and I really was starting to feel that way, I knew he wasn't going to change or leave so I did. That was also terrifying, but when I needed the strength to do it, when I thought I was at my very weakest, I somehow managed to dig deeper and find it with in myself to do what had to be done. You will too.

I will say that I know you are scared of how he will retaliate...but the thing is, you already live with his insane behavior as it is. If you file, at least you will be doing something towards getting relief from the insanity as you deal with his B.S. It will be steps in the right direction... leading away from his crap. True Narcs won't change, drunk or sober, they are just wired wrong and there isn't anything that will change that. There is a website called Out Of The Fog for friends and family of people with personality disorders, they have a message board similar to this one. I highly recommend it.

I imagine you are exhausted in every way possible. I hope you do find a few moments to take care of yourself, a walk, a bubble bath, a good book.. something.. anything that gives you a bit of a break from the chaos.

Ariesagain

Back the truck up...he was demanding you lose weight at a certain rate in return for him not drinking?

There are so many things wrong with that I don’t even know where to start. You named three...let me provide a few more?

1) It’s cruel.
2) It’s designed to crush your self-confidence.
3) Did I mention it’s cruel? And vicious? Especially as I doubt he’s exactly causing George Clooney to lose sleep.
4) He TEXTED this?

How much worse could it really be to divorce him? Yes, the house...but houses are really just boxes we live our lives in...there are always other boxes. He’s going to have to buy you out to keep it, no matter what he thinks or is telling you, so it might not happen anyway.

At some point, the status quo becomes more intolerable than the unknown. Only you can decide when that is.

Wishing you strength and clarity.

pizza67

Yes I agree, of course it’s f’ed up, as I said in my original post. Yes it’s just as bad living with him, other than threats and financial bullying that will result from him being served papers. But I will say this; in the past i’ve freaked out when he threatens to resume drinking. This time I didn’t. Because I stopped caring what he does to himself. And I think it will be the impetus I need to help me yeet myself and my kids out of this hell.


So I ask again, anyone who’s left a drunk narc—how you finally overcame your fears or whatever kept you in that prison of your own creation. How you finally ended it.

ladyscribbler

I was terrified when I left, so it wasn't a matter of overcoming my fears, though leaving actually helped put my fears in perspective. Yes, my ex did try to continue his abuse via the legal system, but his ability to inflict misery was limited by the constraints of family/custody law and also him being a lazy tightwad. At first he bragged about his pricey lawyer, trying to intimidate me. Then, once he saw it was going to literally cost money to fight with me the way he used to, he largely gave up trying to provoke me with direct communication.
This process is a marathon, not a sprint. I borrowed a lot of trouble worrying about what he "could" or "might" do, but the reality was never as bad as my fears. Sending you strength and serenity on your journey.

SparkleKitty

• If you have not already, shore up your real life support system: family, friends, clergy, DV counselor, therapist--whoever you've got. Lean on them. Don't worry about your burdens being too heavy for them--they are lighter to those who care for you and those who are committed to being on your side. If your intent is to make a change but your willpower is flagging--these people on your side will shore it up for you when you are feeling fragile
• Talk to a lawyer to make sure you are dealing with facts and not guesses about your options moving forward. This is crucial, and takes up energy and spent that might otherwise be spent worrying.
• Get very real with yourself -- when you are feeling strong, and perhaps with a trusted friend or counselor for support and to talk things through -- about what you are and are not willing to give up and why. I understand the instinct not to want to give up the house. Only you can decide whether the house is really a dealbreaker or not (and a lawyer can tell you what your options are about leaving but then possibly getting the house back again later). I can only tell you from my experience growing up that when my mother passed two years ago and we sold the family home (that my father, an architect & codependent extraordinaire) had built himself, I have never been more satisfied to release something from my life. As a kid growing up there, I admit that it would have seemed like the worst thing in the world to have had to leave it, but by the time I actually did, it was like unshackling myself from the Titanic.
• Take a moment. Let yourself dream about the life you might have when you are not living with him. What might that look like? Don't worry about practicalities of HOW. Just think about what it might feel like. Smell like. Sound like. What will it be like to really be able to block his number and not be bombarded with text messages for hours on end? What will it feel like to put your needs, and your wants, ahead of his expectations and demands? (I know this exercise might be painful at first. But you have to have something to look forward to. It can be small--in fact, the smaller the better because it is achievable)

In the end, there will be a time when you just have to move through your fear and into something unknown and unfamiliar. Acclimate yourself to that idea now, understand that you don't have to face that right this second. You can PREPARE for this step, mitigate as much risk as possible, and have support behind you when you take it.

Sending you strength and clarity, always.

trailmix

I think the general theme is, you don't actually necessarily overcome the fear beforehand - you just do anyway. You steel yourself, you shut off your emotions (temporarily) to the best of your ability and you move forward with your plan.

Amaranth

So I ask again, anyone who’s left a drunk narc—how you finally overcame your fears or whatever kept you in that prison of your own creation. How you finally ended it.

I got up on New Year's day after a particulary painful night out with husband the night before and knew that the time had come. And I just went. I had no plan. I thought I would be home in a couple of weeks, that he would finally understand that I was serious and that he would address his issues. He didn't so I couldn't go back. It was sort of a stalemate because I didn't really want to leave, I wanted him to change. He didn't want to change and in hindsight, I think he wanted me to leave.
So there I was.....left. It was the end of something but also the beginning of something. I had to get my affairs in order so I threw all my energy into that. I had to arrange healthcare and legality for me and my kids. I started there and spent the next three years trying to unravel our lives which were so entwined. It has been a very long journey and I was not prepared at all for leaving. Life threw so many other complications my way at the same that I never could have been prepared for. You just never know what's coming and you never know the strength you hold within until you need it.
Things certainly got easier for me when the kids turned 18. I think your kids are older? It's definately easier without custody battles.

My ex husband made many threats. They turned out to be as empty as his promises. I try to focus on his actions rather than his words. I have learned to ignore his threats but he did manage to frighten me 6 months ago when he said he had been thinking about killing me. I managed to get through the divorce alive and if I look at his actions I see he is in the bar every time I pass. He really doesn't have the capacity to follow through on anything he threatens to do, whether it be burning the house down or getting a job..

It's a gradual process with many new skills to be learned along the way. Fear......it's a big one and you will have to face your fears slowly, one at a time. I got stronger with every one that I confronted. Getting away from the situation I was in gave me a new clarity. I didn't have someone telling me how I felt and what I thought anymore. I was making my own decisions and that was empowering. I made some very good decisions and am in a much better position financially at least.

I don't know if any of this is helpful. No one knows what will happen in the future. It's hard to plan for it because things happen that you would never have imagined, good and bad. I know all the things I worried that could happen or might happen, they never happened but some much worse things did!! In the end I stopped trying to work out who was going to do what and dealt with what was there on that day. I was in crisis management mode for a long time.

Fear and worry are exhausting and prevent constructive thoughts. The only way out is through I'm afraid.
Seek help wherever you can......12 step groups, counsellors, lawyers, women's groups, this forum......I have had so much support from so many places and for that I am so very grateful. It has really helped me to find the strength to keep going and prevented me from going down too many dead ends in my head.

dandylion

pizza.....remember that fears are not facts. A fear is a fear. A fact is a fact. A fear does not automatically become a fact just because we assume it will.

Flutterby12

We have 3 young kids. I worked and he was a stay at home dad. I had been going to my own personal counseling for 18 months, he drank in cycles for years, I went along with the cycles craving the good parts of the cycles. He treated me poorly, even in front of the kids. The kids were starting to take up his disdain for me. Things were getting so bad that I secretly had a consultation with a lawyer, just to learn my rights. I had another consultation with a different lawyer a couple weeks later to get a different perspective. I explained all that was happening to me, but I wasn’t ready to file bc I didn’t know what would happen to our kids. I could already see how he was turning them against me, and I feared/ knew he would continue that.

The weekend after I saw the 2nd lawyer, he became so drunk that he ‘dropped’ my son on his head, hitting my son’s head hard. My son was not seriously hurt but I finally realized if I don’t stand up for my kids, who will? After NAEH passed out for the night, I called the police and reported NAEH. I had to drag NAEX out of bed to talk to the police, and they saw that he was plastered. He couldn’t even. explain himself. Then, police interviewed my son alone, who told them his dad hits him about once a month. The police still wouldn’t charge NAEX, so I begged them to please help me and get NAEH out of the house for the night, bc I was scared for what he would do when they leave. They did, and they took NAEX to a hotel for the night.

in the morning, NAEX walked home from the hotel and tried to get in the house. I had it all locked up and did not let him back inside. He was furious. I was able to convince him enroll in an alcohol program that week, but still did not let him back into the house. I did all of this while consulting on the phone with the 2nd lawyer over the phone, who was able to guide me some. NAEX agreed to live separately from us while he went to alcohol treatment ; we used the fact that if he wanted to continue to see his kids, he would have to. I got the kids in counseling.

We kept in contact and set up a schedule for him to see the kids supervised while he was going through the outpatient treatment. He continued with the demanding, demeaning behavior towards me and as much I was hoping he would change due to all that had happened, he did not. After 2 months,
I realized he was not going to truly change, and I filed for divorce.

Through the divorce and 2years after, NAEH has continued his abusive treatment of me, tries to alienate the kids, and abuses the court system. It has not. been smooth sailing. I also lost my job bc of the emotionally strain I was under. But I know I did the right thing, and as far as the kids, they are not alienated from me bc of the energy and empathy I have shared with them. They no longer see the conflict daily, and it is so much better for them. There is much more that could be said.

There is a good podcast ’Love and Abuse’. A recent episode deals with guilt from not leaving an abusive relationship sooner. The podcaster points out that leaving is possible when a bunch of different things and timing finally come together - inner strength/ motivation/outside support. It might feel overwhelming to do it, but for me, all those things did came together 3years ago because I had prepared by being in counseling, seeing the lawyers, getting outside help. NAEX hurting our child, and his subsequent quitting drinking but still being an ass, was the final straw that led to my filing.

This isn’t meant to induce guilt but to illustrate the multiple things coming together made everything happen. It hasn’t been easy and I would not wish this one anyone, but getting things together for when you are finally ready, or something happens that you just know you can’t live with any longer, you will at least be somewhat prepare and have people lined up to help. I certainly encourage leaving before something worse happens.
.

pizza67

Well I will have to find the strength somewhere. The latest stream of text garbage is that my emotions have dominated the relationship and left me incapable of empathizing with him, and that no amount of empathy he gives me will ever be enough.

[img]blob:https://www.soberrecovery.com/35289152-5826-4881-8f34-9d1023f74ca6[/img]


Flip all of that around. The truth is i kept hammering to try to get him to validate me and he never would.

LLLisa

YES! Learning this is what stopped me from being afraid of his threats. He never managed to follow through on anything he threatened or claimed he wanted to achieve. Never.
When he left, he jollied the children up by telling them about all the fantastic times they would be having with him in his new, fancy apartment. They'd be going bowling, to the movies and the pool was right across the road. He was going to "get the band back together" and finally achieve his career dreams, which I had stopped by being so controlling and making him drink (I was a really terrible wife you know! ) His life was only on the up and up and up! He was WINNING!

Since then, he lost his job, his apartment, spent time couch surfing and homeless and is now dependant on a charity for housing. And, it's amazing how powerful I am because it's still ALL MY FAULT!

pizza67

He literally just said, with absolutely no insight at all, that I “killed the marriage.”

-he is emotionally abusive
-he is an alcoholic (dry drunk for past year but about to end that)

I realize that everything he accuses me of: hating him, holding him in contempt, lack of empathy for him, etc: is how he fees towards me.

Ariesagain

Pizza...his words are just shaped hot air. Like Charlie Brown’s math teacher, but much more annoying, right?

At this point, his addiction has taken over...it’s the hand inside the sock puppet. It tells him he’s the victim and that’s why he drinks, so as long as he’s being victimized in his mind, he’ll never have to contemplate addressing his drinking. So everything he says, no matter how nonsensical, is merely justification to keep drinking. He doesn’t even know what he really thinks or feels anymore because he’s let himself be

Try not to take what he says to heart?

Ariesagain

*he’s let himself be taken over.

Missing words there, sorry!

pizza67

Those of you who talk about your AH not following through seem to have AHs that are much lower functioning. Mine is very high functioning. He would not be in the position of losing his job. He’s a follow -through expert and likes to rub that in my face. I wish he were just wandering the streets it would be easier for me in court.

LLLisa

You see, here's the thing pizza, my XAH was very "high functioning" until he wasn't. He wasn't wandering the streets when we met.