Cookie314

Hey everyone, I thought I'd pose this question here after it came up in the weekly family of addicts support group I've joined. They were talking about searching the house while the addict is on detox, to find and throw out all of the alcohol, or other intoxicants/paraphernalia, etc so they can return to a "clean house."

We had differing views on this, though I don't think either is wrong. The counselor (who is a recovered addict of 30 years) and a couple other members believed that cleaning the house out so the addict turns to a fresh slate was important. The counselor in particular stated that if her parents hadn't emptied the house out before her return, she would definitely have used whatever was available once a trigger presented itself.

My view was essentially opposite of this. I used to try throwing away alcohol and emptying the house, but that just improved my AH's hiding abilities. It wasn't worth the time or emotional effort. It also tied into those feelings of control, or being controlled. Ultimately I do feel that unless asked directly, throwing the alcohol or empties, etc out is a type of attempting to control the drinking. It also removes the chance for my AH to experience a victory in throwing away the alcohol on his own.

My AH agreed more with my view when I posed the question to him, though in our case the point was moot, he had finished off everything in the house before going to detox. That being said, he could see the benefit of removing the triggers.

So what do you guys think? What have you done in the past? For those of you in recovery, what would have worked for you?

dandylion

I agree with the idea of getting rid of the substances and paraphernalia before their return. I would tell him that I had done it, of course. I see this as more of a way of being supportive and compassionate toward him and his recovery than being about you and your control issues. The way I see it, is, that this is not the same as looking for evidence of drinking while they are still in the active drinking phase.

Remember that alcoholics are still very fragile when they return from rehabilitation. I know that if I were struggling to lose weight and if I stumbled across a chocolate cake in my closet, I would be sorely tempted to eat it. I don't think that triggers are helpful.

lol....I would listen to the long recovering alcoholics more than anyone else. There is a reason that they are long recovering. They just might know things that "we" don't.

Cookie314

True, I would struggle not to eat ice cream that was right in front of me no matter how well a diet had been going. I guess the issue didn't arise for us because what brought on the withdrawl that led to detox was the fact he had finished entities he had stashed in the house, and I refused to get him more.

I guess it seems I've heard conflicting advice on this, or perhaps detox is the element that changes the dynamic.

dandylion

Cookie.....well yes, some people will take o ne view and others will take another. lol---in a group of people, one will rarely find that all of them view one issue i n exactly one way. Sometimes, we just have to choose what works best for us and our own best interest,
Like I said....over the years I have worked with hundreds of alcoholics...and have detoxed as many, in my professional work. As well, I have my own qualifiers and friends who have struggled with alcohoolism.
I learned soo much from the long time recovering alcoholics---the ones who were sober for 5--10--15--25 years (so far). This is why I say to listen most closely to the long recovering alcoholics, because they know where the rocks in the water, are.

Yes, I do think,, that, in this case, I do think that rehab makes a difference---because, one will assume that he is trying to stay sober, at that point.

OKRunner

"I know that if I were struggling to lose weight and if I stumbled across a chocolate cake in my closet, I would be sorely tempted to eat it. I don't think that triggers are helpful."

Welcome to my world. Except I actually would eat it.

HopeUnending

On one of AH's detox stints he specifically asked me to remove all bottles before he was to come home. His rehab stint he didn't ask but I did do so as he was gone 2 months. He was ok with it.
I think cleaning house is not crossing any lines and is an honest way to create a clean slate when they come home.
If they truly want recovery I wouldn't think they would be upset by this.

SparkleKitty

Only you can decide the intent behind whether or not to clean the house in that way. If you cannot do it without it raising the expectation that you are somehow in control of whether or not he drinks when he gets out of rehab, then it is not a healthy activity for you.

Amaranth

I think it's very helpful to create new associations. As he will be coming back to a place that he has previously used I would go a step further and try to create a new atmosphere - one of healing and recovery.
I'm not suggesting you burn all the furniture but a good deep clean of the house to blow away the cobwebs, maybe some new bed linen and possibly a lick of paint somewhere. Or a couple of new houseplants.
Where I come from we have to clean the house and settle our debts on the last day of the year so we start the new year as we mean to go on.

Cookie314

It does help that we just moved into the new house in January, so it actually doesn't have those deep associations and built in dirt yet. Hopefully he won't need soothe round of detox, but relapse is a part of recovery. I think the best course of action (for us at least) would be to just ask him directly if he'd like me to clean everything out.

trailmix

Relapse can happen, but I wouldn't say it is "part" of recovery. I don't mean to be picky about wording but truly, recovery is recovery, it looks like it and sounds like it?

HopeUnending

I agree with trailmix about relapse. I get what is meant in your post though.

I wonder if a mindset that relapse is a part of recovery, might could be rephrased with the recovering person may loose focus and relapse?
To me it takes away the "excuse" that everyone relapses and replaces it with a knowledge it can happen and how it can be avoided.

Sueby

I agree with this. My AH completed a program last fall and he has been drunk for the most part since he came out. He keeps parroting that phrase, but he never actually practiced his sober living plan or attended meetings. Like some how saying he 'relapsed' makes what he's doing better.

I do know his therapist (when he goes) says that to him, and the program has it in their literature, but it's definitely taken out of context. Probably because he doesn't tell the therapist just how much he's been drinking. The program literature is fairly clear, but most alcoholics can twist wording around to suit their needs at will.

ETA:
My son and I did clean the house before he came back from this program, at his request. When he attended a program 20 years ago, I didn't as he said he wanted to clean things out himself. That program he came out of and was sober for 16 years, this one he was sober for 3 days. When he stopped following his sober lifestyle a few years ago, he drank. When he never bothered pursuing his sober plan this time, he drank.

Cookie314

I agree with a lot of you that much of the wording in recovery literature feels like it removes responsibility from the addict for their actions. It can be used in a positive way to give knowledge of incoming triggers and bumps in the road, or in a negative way to excuse... bad behavior i guess. My words fail me some times.

SparkleKitty

I tend to fall on the side of relapse not being part of recovery, but rather being part of addiction.

That mostly comes of my own experience as a codependent/relationship addict, who was forever relapsing in an effort to get what I believed I needed from other people. However, once I was truly in recovery, those relapses disappeared, because they were no longer necessary. I wasn't the person anymore whose self-worth was wrapped up in my relationships to others.

Cookie314

I guess I don't really know how to tell if he's in "true recovery" then. He's been able to stop drinking for a few months at a time, but slowly started back up again. He seems dedicated right now, and has been attending his group meetings and private counseling, something he hasn't done before, but I can't see the future ofc. I feel like this is getting a bit caught up in the exact phrasing though.

trailmix

Yes, you're right and I didn't mean to side-track your thread. You are obviously already aware that there are no excuses really.

What does "real" recovery look like, it looks like someone being sober and not making excuses and pursuing a plan that works. There is a lot of healing that needs to take place in recovery and that should be obvious from the outside.

This is just taking a break from drinking.

It sounds like he is on the right path though, with his meetings, so that's a very good thing. I also didn't mean to sound negative and I really do hope this time it sticks.

Cookie314

No worries, threads go where they will, it keeps it interesting. I do think this time feels different. When he stopped drinking before, that's really all it was: just not drinking. It does feel different this time with him attending group and counseling, even if he often feels they don't help him personally. The fact that he's going seems to be a good sign.

I think part of the difference in opinion with my support group is an age gap. I am to be the youngest person there by at least a decade. A lot of my input is disagreed with, though I don't mean that in a negative way necessarily. I think the difference in generations just shows itself a lot in general conversation. We talked quite a while yesterday about Marijuana use, and how one of the members was worried about her son using it. He insisted he smokes to relax and help him sleep. She was worried he was trading one habit for another.

One member talked about how he's a recovering alcoholic himself, and used to drink and smoke both. He felt like our sneaks up on you, and both can be addictive. I tried to make the point that it depends on the use. I couldn't comment on the physically addictive side, because i don't know enough about chemistry and biology to say whether or not it's addictive in that way. I think it can be used in a helpful way, just like mushrooms have been found to help with depression. That being said, it depends on the person. I certainly agree it can be someone's drug of choice, and she should talk to him about why he smoked pot and not say, low dose edibles, melatonin, healthy sleep habits, or going to a doctor. (Also the fact she smells it in his car speaks more to using it when he's driving, or out there to hide it from others, but that came up later). If he really isn't willing to try other methods, or uses it a lot, etc, it's probably more for getting high with than sleeping.

Idk. I mainly wanted to point out she should really talk to him more in depth about it, and that I was more talking about pot in general, since I don't know her situation. But I think the fact I try to give a more neutral answer is interpreted as disagreeing. It can be a bit frustrating, since I often struggle to get my point across in spoken conversations, and feeling like part of what I say is taken out and used as the opposing opinion makes me wonder if I'm just saying things wrong.

trailmix

Well I certainly get what you are saying about weed, I think of it like alcohol. Some people see it as a recreational drug, like alcohol and use it as such. Like many of us who are not alcoholics are able to drink.

I also believe (from what I have seen) that weed is addictive, if not in the same way physically as alcohol (although I do believe there is a physical component) then absolutely mentally.

I think what you may be coming across is perspective. If someone is living with or dealing with someone who has a drug problem, an addiction and they see them getting high on a drug, alarm bells would be ringing.

I'm not sure what your support group is but have you looked at al anon at all? There isn't cross-talk in al anon and so many different groups to choose from. So while you will have the support and people you can talk to after the meeting if you like, there isn't that same variation of opinion you might find elsewhere that is cross talked. Defending your point of view isn't always necessarily helpful? Anyway, just some thoughts.

Cookie314

I've tried one al anon group, but they weren't the right fit. They were very formal with rules and how they addressed one another, and very focused on religion. It felt more like being stuck in church than in a support group.

SparkleKitty

I think sometimes, people just want to be heard, and they aren't seeking answers to their problems. I often have to check myself before leaping in with my opinion or advice -- is this welcome? is it helpful? -- until someone has specifically asked for it. I have to do that on this site all the time!!