Narcissist?

Old 02-02-2021, 07:45 AM
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Narcissist?

I’ve been recently reading about NPD and abuse, and a lot of things seemed to click, especially about covert narcissist and some types of abusers from the book “why does he do this?”. I’m confused though about just an abuser and a person with NPD, what’s the difference? And do you think my X might have NPD? Cuz the disorder they diagnosed him with was Dependant personality disorder, which I don’t know if it’s correct, but well.

Trying to educate myself better on those topics.
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Old 02-02-2021, 09:00 AM
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I wouldn't diagnose someone without having professional experience. For me, I had to learn to accept people as they were whether I had an accurate label for them or not. How they treat me is more important than naming their specific issues.

The temptation to figure it all out, for me, was rooted in a desire to try to control or manage another person's behavior. Letting go of that desire is what freed me to embark on my own recovery.
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Old 02-02-2021, 09:39 AM
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I have to agree that letting it go would serve you far better.

Letting go would allow you peace of mind and you can put the focus on yourself and building the life you want.

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Old 02-02-2021, 09:51 AM
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Even if you diagnose someone else, what then? I attempt to spend most of my time on trying to figure myself out because that is where I have my best chance at implementing change if deemed necessary.
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Old 02-02-2021, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by SparkleKitty View Post

The temptation to figure it all out, for me, was rooted in a desire to try to control or manage another person's behavior. Letting go of that desire is what freed me to embark on my own recovery.
Mashabo, this ^^^^^ many times over. It is super understandable to want to figure the addict out; however, every moment you spend thinking about their problems is energy wasted that could be effectively spent on your side of the street.

Keep posting. We have all done some sort of activity where we tried to control the alcoholic. It is natural to do this however it isn't helpful in the long run
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Old 02-02-2021, 10:36 AM
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I think it's normal to want to figure out what's going on. Everything that I've read about Narcissistic Personality Disorder, there's pretty much no way to know for sure whether or not an addict in active addiction has underlying NPD, or if they're simply the way they are due to the alcoholism. And the cure for those involved with people with NPD is the same as the cure for those involved with alcoholics -- focus on yourself and (re)building your own life, seek help, minimize or cut off exposure the person demonstrating the toxicity, etc.
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Old 02-02-2021, 10:38 AM
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Totally agree with everyone else on this. I completely understand your desire to understand his behaviours (I looked into NPD too) because in some way for me, at least, it was comfort on some level. I spent a lot of wasted energy on that topic and it took me further from what I had to do to JUST scratch the surface on healing from my dysfunctional relationship.

I sent out a link to the break the cycle free course, because to me it looks like a helpful tool to do a self-study and to work towards healing. We didn't cause anyone to use alcohol...but we were in that mix and it hurt and now some of us (me especially) are standing in the abyss wondering...what now, who am I and what do I do now?

I put off this work for MANY YEARS, I am middle age and I want the real me to take charge of my life.

Do what is right for you in this moment, wind down the path and you will find what you are looking for, it is inevitable and it can't be ignored.
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Old 02-02-2021, 11:51 AM
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I once dated someone high up on the narcissism scale, if not a full blown narcissist (I think he was). He was not an alcoholic.

I researched it a lot at the time because, not having dealt with someone with NDP before, I really didn't understand what the heck his behaviour was about, I do now. I, personally, had to do this research because the whole thing caused a great deal of cognitive dissonance for me and that wouldn't rest until I figured it out.

We all have narcissistic qualities, there is a scale and everyone falls somewhere on it. There is healthy narcissism and unhealthy. So getting to a point where you could say, "he was/is a narcissist" is pretty much impossible, unless you have that training.

I don't know if that is helpful to you because, as mentioned, that could just be the alcoholism and the personality disorder and who knows what else.

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Old 02-02-2021, 01:39 PM
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Maybe, this is just my own way of thinking, but, I think that sometimes we can feel driven to know a definite diagnosis, when dealing with a toxic person----because we want to be reassured that it is "them" and not us, at fault.
With a toxic person as well as addicts/alcoholics we are often blamed for the conflict in or the demise of the relationship. If we can be assured that the other has a diagnosis for their behavior, this can be validating for US. We can let go of a lot of the "guilt" and weight of the blame for the problems in the relationship.
Especially, if we are not sold in our own self esteem and personal boundaries----if we have s strong need External Validation----having the diagnosis/label can give us more confidence and a "right" to our own thoughts, feelings, emotions.
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Old 02-02-2021, 02:07 PM
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If we're not psychologists, we can't diagnose anyone. But I think it's possible to learn about a disorder and figure out if the traits or behavior patterns apply. We have brains for a reason, and problems are meant to be solved. What I think is useful in learning about something like NPD is that the behavior is identified clearly as abuse.
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Old 02-02-2021, 02:31 PM
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I completely understand the impulse to research, to try to find answers, to put things in categories that might actually make sense. The problem with this situation is that it’s a pretty classic chicken/egg situation...what came first? The addiction or the personality disorder? And which personality disorder? You can end up in an endless mental spiral trying to understand what can’t be understood.
I do think that addiction mimics many of the symptoms of several types of mental illness...and the more deeply addiction sinks in, the more those similar attributes appear.
If you truly think it helps you to try to research all of this, that’s one thing...but if you know in your heart that what you’re really trying to do is come up with the magical “answer” as to how he ended up like this and how you didn’t see it coming, maybe try to let it go. Some things just happen to us without explanation and many of those things suck.
Be as gentle with yourself as you can, yes?
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Old 02-02-2021, 05:25 PM
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Guy, thank you for your replies. Of course I know, I know what you are talking about, I understand what you are saying and believe me I really try my best. One day I’m very focused on myself, the other boom and I need to read something to feel better.

I guess it is the fact that I still can’t accept and let go of what he did, it just doesn’t fit in my head how someone can be so cruel and have no empathy whatsoever for someone they have history with and said they loved one day. I guess it’s hard to get because I do have empathy. I can’t even do that with people I feel nothing for.

Another thing is that, I think, I do it because I still try to wrap around my head the fact that he might be sober, but doing all this. (I know, I know you think he isn’t. And sober doesn’t mean recovery.)

I think I also want to feel myself better and think that I’m not the only one he did, do or will do that to.
To help myself understand the This freaking “psychologist” didn’t get a better version of him, the version I thought I’ll be with after the struggle and after the proper recovery.

Tomorrow we are going to sign the divorce papers. I feel pretty bad. I know I’m still young, 25 is not too far yet, but it does feel pretty sh*tty and like a “mini end of the world”.
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Old 02-02-2021, 05:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Mashabo View Post
I do it because I still try to wrap around my head the fact that he might be sober, but doing all this.
So for something like that, you might try looking at both sides of it. I don't know if he's sober or not.

So, let's say he is sober. Has he become a great guy! Full of fun and laughter, kindness and loveable qualities? No.
Now say he isn't sober, does he fit the description above? No.

So really part you are struggling with is, where did the nice guy you knew go? What was he like before. I know he said he loved you and you are the one for him and all nice romantic things, but what was he actually like?

Well, you moved to his country, after 4 months he proposed, he was sober (apparently) for at least a year, after that he was using.

So what was it like between November 2017 and when he went to rehab? From your first post it was horrible. He was texting some woman telling her he was divorcing, he tried to patch things up with you when you said you were leaving for another country. Then while you were away, things improved for a few months then fell apart again. You returned and he wasn't even very good at keeping in contact.

What I'm saying really is, he actually never was a "nice" guy. He has treated you horribly, over and over. He is a cheater and a liar, he probably always was.

Perhaps he wanted to try the straight and narrow with someone. Find a nice girl, get married, make plans, but then it all fizzles when he goes back to his drug of choice.




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Old 02-04-2021, 08:35 AM
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Of course, trailmix, you are absolutely right. Man, he can show to be a victim...

Yesterday we went to sign one part of the papers, at first we were just standing without speaking, then he asked how the dog was doing. Talked for a while then again we’re just standing. Then when the procedure was over we started walking towards the direction his rehab is in (since he lives there) I said I’d be going to a cafeteria to buy some coffee, he asked if it was okay to join me, I said - ok.

We spend in that cafeteria like 1 hour and a half, talking, mainly him. Complaining about his family, how he doesn’t talk to them, how they don’t understand him, how he thought his father understood something but didn’t, how his sister acting like a b*tch, how she is super unhappy, crying every day (that’s not true btw) and how it’s the fault of his father. How he told his father that he (his father) is screwing up with them (his kids) and blah blah blah. Then he said “they are all sick, at least I’m getting a treatment”. I swear I started laughing, I just couldn’t hold it, it sounded so crazy. He started laughing too. It’s like he gets he is ridiculous, but also doesn’t.

He said now he has 3 personality disorders they diagnosed him with 🤦🏽‍♀️ Was explaining his sickness and all that kind of stuff. Then at one point he started crying, I got a bit lost, asked him why is he crying. Didn’t know what to do, felt kinda bad for him, tapped his shoulder, put my hand in his and said “I can imagine it’s probably hard for you, but it will be okay. You soon Have one year sober, it’s a positive thing.” Even though I think he is working badly his program. And right there I was thinking “This ass. Did what he did and now crying here in front of me and I am giving him support.” He kept crying, said that no one will come to his one year, that his family won’t come, he can’t even buy cake because he has no money and blah blah. I felt bad, but what can I say. I just said it doesn’t matter because it’s for him first of all, not for his family , and he can cook the cake.

Anyways, all of that time he just talked and talked and not even once asked me how I was 🤦🏽‍♀️ I just listened to him and thought in my head “Man, you are crazy.”

Then we went to wait for the taxi, he showed me the belt his mother gave him and then added “I showed you the belt, okay? Nothing else.” Referring to his private part. I was like what? Didn’t even get his joke at first.

Then he hugged me and said “Call me if you need anything.” I was thinking “Right”. Came home and he texted “did you arrive?” I said “yes” and that was it.

My softness kills me, but at the same time I’m proud of myself not to start any fight with him, not saying anything to him and just letting myself see how crazy he is right now and how far from genuine recovery.

Btw, he said also that he is stuck in his step 6 and 7 because later it will be about repairing and he feels so bad that he doesn’t want to repair sht.
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Old 02-04-2021, 08:56 AM
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Mashabo.....I am so glad that you got such a good look at the reality that is him.
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Old 02-04-2021, 09:39 AM
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I am too, this can be really helpful to you I think.

That "high up on the narcissist scale" guy I dated (ugh). I also got to really see how he was - it was all bad.

It would have been nice to be able to do it over a cup of coffee instead!!

If you look at what he said, everyone else is completely wrong, wrong, wrong. They do everything wrong they say everything wrong they live their lives wrong. He, is doing the best he can! Right. But that's ok, that is his life.

Now you, you are doing just fine. There is nothing wrong with having compassion for someone, I think you handled that whole encounter really well.

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Old 02-04-2021, 10:23 AM
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It seems very obvious from your report that other people just aren't real to him. I am glad you got the opportunity to see it for yourself.
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Old 02-04-2021, 10:28 AM
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A suggestion? Print out that last post and make multiple copies and tape them up around your house.

Be very, very careful, sweetie. What you heard was an hour’s worth of self-pity, lies, and rationalization. What he heard was you listening to his poor-me crap nonstop for an hour and then validating it by sympathizing. That’s something narcissists (whether intrinsic or addiction-caused) just love. He’s going to try to come back for more. I would bet an appendage on it. He’s already texted you afterwards. And he’s whining about having no money...that’s a red flag right there. And I’d bet another appendage he hasn’t been clean all the time he’s claiming, not that it really matters for you. Just don’t get sucked into to praising him for what is probably another lie.

Be very, very careful. (Did I say that enough?)
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Old 02-04-2021, 11:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Ariesagain View Post
A suggestion? Print out that last post and make multiple copies and tape them up around your house.

Be very, very careful, sweetie. What you heard was an hour’s worth of self-pity, lies, and rationalization. What he heard was you listening to his poor-me crap nonstop for an hour and then validating it by sympathizing. That’s something narcissists (whether intrinsic or addiction-caused) just love. He’s going to try to come back for more. I would bet an appendage on it. He’s already texted you afterwards. And he’s whining about having no money...that’s a red flag right there. And I’d bet another appendage he hasn’t been clean all the time he’s claiming, not that it really matters for you. Just don’t get sucked into to praising him for what is probably another lie.

Be very, very careful. (Did I say that enough?)

Sure, Aries. You are definitely right!

I see where I need to be careful and though i saw and could identify my co-dependant traits I’m glad some logic actually made it through all this mess and I can see how messed up he is right now.
With all the love I might have I clearly see I just can’t be with this person for my own sanity and self-respect, I wouldn’t stand this BS all the time. All this unhappiness, selfishness, self-centerdness, anger, self-pitty etc etc.
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Old 02-05-2021, 12:56 AM
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Hi,

Sorry for what you've been through and are going through. The most helpful info I've found so far have been from...

Dr Ramani (on youtube)
Melanie Tonia Evans (she has lots of stuff on FB but if you subscribe to see it then others can see this so its better to go via her website - if this person has narc tendencies then they will likely be checking your social media in detail, so protect yourself in that regard)
A book called Out of the Fog (fear obligation and guilt) by Dana Morningstar

Good luck.
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