I finally left, but I feel awful.
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I finally left, but I feel awful.
I left the home yesterday after an argument that seems to be never ending. It always seems to be the same fight over and over. I'm so tired. After telling me that I wasn't helping him and that I was contributing to his problem because I "beat him down", I just wanted out. He completely blamed me, yet I know that he's going to do what he's going to do regardless if I'm there or not (most likely). Yet he also told me that if I left, that it would be a downward spiral for him. Does that make any sense to you? If I was at fault, wouldn't he get better if I left?!! ARRRGGG! It's a crazy train.
Why do I feel so awful? I'm just randomly breaking down, wondering if I did the right thing. It's so hard.
Why do I feel so awful? I'm just randomly breaking down, wondering if I did the right thing. It's so hard.
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The gaslighting can be overwhelming, flower--the closer you get to leaving, the harder they fight to maintain the status quo.
If it helps, I believe you did the right thing.
Now is the time to let him worry about himself and for you to take care of YOU.
If it helps, I believe you did the right thing.
Now is the time to let him worry about himself and for you to take care of YOU.
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Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 8,637
Hi flower. Yes, a tough day for you for sure. I'm sorry about that.
I'm also glad that you took that leap and it's natural to question yourself. How inhuman would we be if we didn't?
That said, you have done the right thing. There are many reasons but for no other reason than you need time to clear that FOG (fear, obligation, guilt), how can you possibly see all this clearly when you are always in the storm.
Deep breaths! You are going to be ok.
As for what he said, let me translate:
Translation: It is your fault that I drink!
Translation: It is your fault that I drink!
So no, it doesn't make sense to us, except in knowing that he doesn't want to take responsibility for his drinking. That kind of makes sense. If you have had this "discussion" a thousand times, know that it's not going to change until he decides it is.
I'm also glad that you took that leap and it's natural to question yourself. How inhuman would we be if we didn't?
That said, you have done the right thing. There are many reasons but for no other reason than you need time to clear that FOG (fear, obligation, guilt), how can you possibly see all this clearly when you are always in the storm.
Deep breaths! You are going to be ok.
As for what he said, let me translate:
After telling me that I wasn't helping him and that I was contributing to his problem because I "beat him down". He completely blamed me
Yet he also told me that if I left, that it would be a downward spiral for him. Does that make any sense to you?
So no, it doesn't make sense to us, except in knowing that he doesn't want to take responsibility for his drinking. That kind of makes sense. If you have had this "discussion" a thousand times, know that it's not going to change until he decides it is.
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I don't know if you have seen these articles, but they are very good:
"First the addict lies to himself about his addiction, then he begins to lie to others. Lying, evasion, deception, manipulation, spinning and other techniques for avoiding or distorting the truth are necessary parts of the addictive process. They precede the main body of the addiction like military sappers and shock troops, mapping and clearing the way for its advance and protecting it from hostile counterattacks.
Because addiction by definition is an irrational, unbalanced and unhealthy behavior pattern resulting from an abnormal obsession, it simply cannot continue to exist under normal circumstances without the progressive attack upon and distortion of reality resulting from the operation of its propaganda and psychological warfare brigades. The fundamentally insane and unsupportable thinking and behavior of the addict must be justified and rationalized so that the addiction can continue and progress".
Addiction, Lies and Relationships
I'd be OK if it weren't for you!
"The addict blames his addictive behavior on his significant other, usually his spouse. He feels resentful and self-pitying about the way he considers himself to be treated and uses this to justify his addiction. Since one of the commonest causes of resentment and self-pity in addicts is criticism by others of their addictive behavior, and since the characteristic response of the addict to such criticism is to escalate addictive behavior, this process tends to be self-perpetuating. The addict is often quite cruel in highlighting, exaggerating and exploiting any and every defect or flaw the significant other may have, or even in fabricating them out of his own mind in order to justify and rationalize his own behavior".
Excuses Alcoholics Make
"First the addict lies to himself about his addiction, then he begins to lie to others. Lying, evasion, deception, manipulation, spinning and other techniques for avoiding or distorting the truth are necessary parts of the addictive process. They precede the main body of the addiction like military sappers and shock troops, mapping and clearing the way for its advance and protecting it from hostile counterattacks.
Because addiction by definition is an irrational, unbalanced and unhealthy behavior pattern resulting from an abnormal obsession, it simply cannot continue to exist under normal circumstances without the progressive attack upon and distortion of reality resulting from the operation of its propaganda and psychological warfare brigades. The fundamentally insane and unsupportable thinking and behavior of the addict must be justified and rationalized so that the addiction can continue and progress".
Addiction, Lies and Relationships
I'd be OK if it weren't for you!
"The addict blames his addictive behavior on his significant other, usually his spouse. He feels resentful and self-pitying about the way he considers himself to be treated and uses this to justify his addiction. Since one of the commonest causes of resentment and self-pity in addicts is criticism by others of their addictive behavior, and since the characteristic response of the addict to such criticism is to escalate addictive behavior, this process tends to be self-perpetuating. The addict is often quite cruel in highlighting, exaggerating and exploiting any and every defect or flaw the significant other may have, or even in fabricating them out of his own mind in order to justify and rationalize his own behavior".
Excuses Alcoholics Make
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Flower,
Wow, that is a big step. And ya, you did the right thing. Why hang around for that?
Being blamed is so normal. I got blamed all the time, for "beating her down", not being supportive, always bringing things up....
Do you have a plan? A place to be, a strategy for communication with him?
Wow, that is a big step. And ya, you did the right thing. Why hang around for that?
Being blamed is so normal. I got blamed all the time, for "beating her down", not being supportive, always bringing things up....
Do you have a plan? A place to be, a strategy for communication with him?
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flower......I think that you did the right thing for YOU. And, possibly for him, too---but, who knows about that. At any rate, him and his drinking are nothing that you can ever have any control over.
I hear you when you say that you feel "bad". That is not unusual for someone who has co-dependent tendencies. Co-dependents usually do struggle with a lot of guilt when they do something for themselves or when they make another person angry. It is like they don't feel entitled to put themselves and their own welfare as a top priority.
If you are willing to stick to your guns, you will eventually begin to feel better. It is the short-term pain for the long-term gain.
It would be good if you sought the support of alanon and other people who also have your welfare at heart. Now is the time that you really, really, need support,
You said that you went to a therapist or counselor for a while, but quit. Maybe, start that up again?
I hear you when you say that you feel "bad". That is not unusual for someone who has co-dependent tendencies. Co-dependents usually do struggle with a lot of guilt when they do something for themselves or when they make another person angry. It is like they don't feel entitled to put themselves and their own welfare as a top priority.
If you are willing to stick to your guns, you will eventually begin to feel better. It is the short-term pain for the long-term gain.
It would be good if you sought the support of alanon and other people who also have your welfare at heart. Now is the time that you really, really, need support,
You said that you went to a therapist or counselor for a while, but quit. Maybe, start that up again?
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Join Date: Jan 2021
Posts: 36
Hello. I have read through a few threads on here as yesterday was a horrible day for me too. Things ended between me and a recovering alcoholic that I have been dating. It's so hard. I can't imagine how hard is has been for you. Walking away must feel like half relief and half miserable. Why is it always that way? You know they are bad. You know you would be happier and alot less stressed without them. But the good parts and the fact you care and love them battles you.
I hope you continue to get away. I have only had a small experience of it and it's been a really awful time. One that's made me Ill. I've spent so many nights wide awake anxious because he is like a broken thermostat.
Sending you lots of support. My reply isn't very useful but sometimes you just need to know you are not alone
I hope you continue to get away. I have only had a small experience of it and it's been a really awful time. One that's made me Ill. I've spent so many nights wide awake anxious because he is like a broken thermostat.
Sending you lots of support. My reply isn't very useful but sometimes you just need to know you are not alone
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Originally Posted by woodlandlost 
Flower,
Wow, that is a big step. And ya, you did the right thing. Why hang around for that?
Being blamed is so normal. I got blamed all the time, for "beating her down", not being supportive, always bringing things up....
Do you have a plan? A place to be, a strategy for communication with him?
Wow, that is a big step. And ya, you did the right thing. Why hang around for that?
Being blamed is so normal. I got blamed all the time, for "beating her down", not being supportive, always bringing things up....
Do you have a plan? A place to be, a strategy for communication with him?
Originally Posted by dandylion
flower......I think that you did the right thing for YOU. And, possibly for him, too---but, who knows about that. At any rate, him and his drinking are nothing that you can ever have any control over.
I hear you when you say that you feel "bad". That is not unusual for someone who has co-dependent tendencies. Co-dependents usually do struggle with a lot of guilt when they do something for themselves or when they make another person angry. It is like they don't feel entitled to put themselves and their own welfare as a top priority.
If you are willing to stick to your guns, you will eventually begin to feel better. It is the short-term pain for the long-term gain.
It would be good if you sought the support of alanon and other people who also have your welfare at heart. Now is the time that you really, really, need support,
You said that you went to a therapist or counselor for a while, but quit. Maybe, start that up again?
I hear you when you say that you feel "bad". That is not unusual for someone who has co-dependent tendencies. Co-dependents usually do struggle with a lot of guilt when they do something for themselves or when they make another person angry. It is like they don't feel entitled to put themselves and their own welfare as a top priority.
If you are willing to stick to your guns, you will eventually begin to feel better. It is the short-term pain for the long-term gain.
It would be good if you sought the support of alanon and other people who also have your welfare at heart. Now is the time that you really, really, need support,
You said that you went to a therapist or counselor for a while, but quit. Maybe, start that up again?
Last edited by flower959; 01-26-2021 at 06:09 AM. Reason: forgot to reply to Dandylion!
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This really hit home for me Flower. Good for you for doing what is best for you. When I left, I could already see that as long as I stayed, I would be blamed. When I left, there was no one left to blame but himself. Enjoy the peace. I know I did...
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Join Date: Dec 2015
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Is your counselor addiction educated? Maybe she's on leave because you
need a different counselor. Something to consider.
Alanon groups can be so different, each meeting seems to have its own
energy. That's why you may hear them say to try at least 6 meetings.
Had I committed to attending meetings decades ago and sought to get all I could
from them in terms of learning about alcoholism, dealing with life,
and helping myself out of the tornado of addiction I was living in, I
would saved myself a lot of grief. I believed I didn't really need it.
I was so wrong.
Please get all the good support you can right now, from people who
really really understand addiction/alcoholism.
need a different counselor. Something to consider.
Alanon groups can be so different, each meeting seems to have its own
energy. That's why you may hear them say to try at least 6 meetings.
Had I committed to attending meetings decades ago and sought to get all I could
from them in terms of learning about alcoholism, dealing with life,
and helping myself out of the tornado of addiction I was living in, I
would saved myself a lot of grief. I believed I didn't really need it.
I was so wrong.
Please get all the good support you can right now, from people who
really really understand addiction/alcoholism.
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Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 8,637
Originally Posted by flower959
I'm leaving it to just 1 phone call a day. No texting. That's it for my "plan". It's not much of one really, but it's what I'm comfortable with.
I completely understand your plan so far being one phone call a day, that is what you are comfortable with for now. This is the time, while you are away, to start thinking about what you want.
For instance, even with the one call, is that what you are comfortable with really, or are you giving him that because that is all you can stand right now? Just something to think about, to start thinking about what you need and what you want and not always about what works best for him. Perhaps setting a maximum time for the call is helpful, say half an hour rather than 3 hour talks that wear you down?
He was rational and lucid, but for how long. He could be great for a few days or a week. When will the first phone call or text at midnight come, when he's drunk? When will the first hung-over and angry call come.
I'm not saying that to cause you more worry, those things are completely out of your control. Sometimes when we are hurt and upset we just want some relief. When he is being rational and maybe kind, it would be oh so easy to just say, ok I've had enough of being scared and hurt (and maybe camping out on someone's sofa), going back can fix that right away, but the person who is hurting you can't be the one to fix that, only you can.
No matter what he says, if you decide to go back, prepare for more of the same, he hasn't changed.
What will probably help you actually feel better? Post here a lot, go to an online Al-anon meeting, the people you meet this time or next might be "your" group. Talk to friends and family, vent! Tell your story.
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Join Date: Jan 2021
Posts: 259
When I broke up with my boyfriend (the relationship before my husband), I remember needing to do it over steam because every time I tried in person, he somehow twisted things into one more try. It wasn't because of the mean jokes he'd made about private things in front of friends, or the names he called me, etc; we both had things we could work on. Ofc the things I needed to work on were just my inability to understand a joke and such. It felt like being a mouse trying to stand up to a cat. He never just killed me and got it over with, he'd wait till I recovered enough to swat some more.
When I finally broke it off with him, I had to write on a paper the things he'd said to me that hurt so, that I was strong and could do it, and to hang up when things were done. I succeeded, but the next day, I felt so guilty and upset, I texted him saying I still wanted to be friends. It took months before I finally bright myself to go no contact, and during that time his "jokes" got meaner, and he'd love pulling me aside and away from friends to berate me.
Eventually the hurt was enough that I cut ties completely. It was the best thing I could have done. Describing how you're feeling as the FOG is very apt. Often impossible to see while you're in it.
Please be careful during this time. I don't know if your ex was ever physically abusive, but the times when someone leaves an abusive relationship are often the most dangerous. Even if he isn't, his history of gaslighting you shows how skilled he is at manipulating you. I know how hard it is, but from my own experiences I would definitely suggest cutting ties with him completely. Calling him every day after you've broken up isn't really much of a separation, even if it feels like one. It might hurt more in the present, but going no contact will likely help in the long run.
When I finally broke it off with him, I had to write on a paper the things he'd said to me that hurt so, that I was strong and could do it, and to hang up when things were done. I succeeded, but the next day, I felt so guilty and upset, I texted him saying I still wanted to be friends. It took months before I finally bright myself to go no contact, and during that time his "jokes" got meaner, and he'd love pulling me aside and away from friends to berate me.
Eventually the hurt was enough that I cut ties completely. It was the best thing I could have done. Describing how you're feeling as the FOG is very apt. Often impossible to see while you're in it.
Please be careful during this time. I don't know if your ex was ever physically abusive, but the times when someone leaves an abusive relationship are often the most dangerous. Even if he isn't, his history of gaslighting you shows how skilled he is at manipulating you. I know how hard it is, but from my own experiences I would definitely suggest cutting ties with him completely. Calling him every day after you've broken up isn't really much of a separation, even if it feels like one. It might hurt more in the present, but going no contact will likely help in the long run.
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Originally Posted by trailmix
Yes I was thinking the same thing. I hope your counselor has a specific speciality in addictions, if not then perhaps seek a new one, then you won't need to start from absolute scratch.
I completely understand your plan so far being one phone call a day, that is what you are comfortable with for now. This is the time, while you are away, to start thinking about what you want.
For instance, even with the one call, is that what you are comfortable with really, or are you giving him that because that is all you can stand right now? Just something to think about, to start thinking about what you need and what you want and not always about what works best for him. Perhaps setting a maximum time for the call is helpful, say half an hour rather than 3 hour talks that wear you down?
He was rational and lucid, but for how long. He could be great for a few days or a week. When will the first phone call or text at midnight come, when he's drunk? When will the first hung-over and angry call come.
I'm not saying that to cause you more worry, those things are completely out of your control. Sometimes when we are hurt and upset we just want some relief. When he is being rational and maybe kind, it would be oh so easy to just say, ok I've had enough of being scared and hurt (and maybe camping out on someone's sofa), going back can fix that right away, but the person who is hurting you can't be the one to fix that, only you can.
No matter what he says, if you decide to go back, prepare for more of the same, he hasn't changed.
What will probably help you actually feel better? Post here a lot, go to an online Al-anon meeting, the people you meet this time or next might be "your" group. Talk to friends and family, vent! Tell your story.
I completely understand your plan so far being one phone call a day, that is what you are comfortable with for now. This is the time, while you are away, to start thinking about what you want.
For instance, even with the one call, is that what you are comfortable with really, or are you giving him that because that is all you can stand right now? Just something to think about, to start thinking about what you need and what you want and not always about what works best for him. Perhaps setting a maximum time for the call is helpful, say half an hour rather than 3 hour talks that wear you down?
He was rational and lucid, but for how long. He could be great for a few days or a week. When will the first phone call or text at midnight come, when he's drunk? When will the first hung-over and angry call come.
I'm not saying that to cause you more worry, those things are completely out of your control. Sometimes when we are hurt and upset we just want some relief. When he is being rational and maybe kind, it would be oh so easy to just say, ok I've had enough of being scared and hurt (and maybe camping out on someone's sofa), going back can fix that right away, but the person who is hurting you can't be the one to fix that, only you can.
No matter what he says, if you decide to go back, prepare for more of the same, he hasn't changed.
What will probably help you actually feel better? Post here a lot, go to an online Al-anon meeting, the people you meet this time or next might be "your" group. Talk to friends and family, vent! Tell your story.
Unless he did something spiteful or violent, this separation wasn't permanent. I know that he won't stop drinking but I do want to be able to say that I've done everything I could if/when this marriage ends. I want him to know that I'm capable of leaving and while I talked about it, I needed him to actually experience it because I truly believe he thought that I'd never step foot out the door. I want to know what he does with this. Many folks talk about multiple separations before actually doing a final separation; I think this is just part of the process and I'm okay with it being part of the process.
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Well, Flower.....at least you will know what you are in for. when you go back. If this is the first time that you have left the house, he will also know that you are not serious about the separations....he will know that they are just "threats' or manipulations to scare him into not drinking and treating you better. He will know that your words are hollow. He will come to realize that these leavings are just a way of letting the pressure off. via a sort of release valve.
In the Cycle, I imagine that there is a period of being nicer and behaving better or not drinking. This sweet period can become the "honeymooon" period that actually reinforces the staying in the relationship. They are like the crumbs that one lives for, emotionally.
Since the alcoholism is always progressive, over time (and, the alcoholic thinking, too)....his ability to sweeten the pot, will become harder for him to maintain, and each round of leaving will become harder for you, as well. This takes a lot out of a person in the long haul.
I imagine that this explains why you didn't feel any relief upon leaving to your safe place. Usually, it seems the people will feel a "relief" just to be away from the toxic behaviors (even if they are lonely or second guessing, at first). I am wondering if you just "felt awful" because you were wishing for a turn around from him and haven't gotten it in the way you have wished. Maybe, you felt awful because you can feel that this leaving hasn't made much of a difference? I am just asking.
In the Cycle, I imagine that there is a period of being nicer and behaving better or not drinking. This sweet period can become the "honeymooon" period that actually reinforces the staying in the relationship. They are like the crumbs that one lives for, emotionally.
Since the alcoholism is always progressive, over time (and, the alcoholic thinking, too)....his ability to sweeten the pot, will become harder for him to maintain, and each round of leaving will become harder for you, as well. This takes a lot out of a person in the long haul.
I imagine that this explains why you didn't feel any relief upon leaving to your safe place. Usually, it seems the people will feel a "relief" just to be away from the toxic behaviors (even if they are lonely or second guessing, at first). I am wondering if you just "felt awful" because you were wishing for a turn around from him and haven't gotten it in the way you have wished. Maybe, you felt awful because you can feel that this leaving hasn't made much of a difference? I am just asking.
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Originally Posted by trailmix
Yes, I totally understand what you mean. How are you holding up?
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Originally Posted by dandylion
Well, Flower.....at least you will know what you are in for. when you go back. If this is the first time that you have left the house, he will also know that you are not serious about the separations....he will know that they are just "threats' or manipulations to scare him into not drinking and treating you better. He will know that your words are hollow. He will come to realize that these leavings are just a way of letting the pressure off. via a sort of release valve.
In the Cycle, I imagine that there is a period of being nicer and behaving better or not drinking. This sweet period can become the "honeymooon" period that actually reinforces the staying in the relationship. They are like the crumbs that one lives for, emotionally.
Since the alcoholism is always progressive, over time (and, the alcoholic thinking, too)....his ability to sweeten the pot, will become harder for him to maintain, and each round of leaving will become harder for you, as well. This takes a lot out of a person in the long haul.
I imagine that this explains why you didn't feel any relief upon leaving to your safe place. Usually, it seems the people will feel a "relief" just to be away from the toxic behaviors (even if they are lonely or second guessing, at first). I am wondering if you just "felt awful" because you were wishing for a turn around from him and haven't gotten it in the way you have wished. Maybe, you felt awful because you can feel that this leaving hasn't made much of a difference? I am just asking.
In the Cycle, I imagine that there is a period of being nicer and behaving better or not drinking. This sweet period can become the "honeymooon" period that actually reinforces the staying in the relationship. They are like the crumbs that one lives for, emotionally.
Since the alcoholism is always progressive, over time (and, the alcoholic thinking, too)....his ability to sweeten the pot, will become harder for him to maintain, and each round of leaving will become harder for you, as well. This takes a lot out of a person in the long haul.
I imagine that this explains why you didn't feel any relief upon leaving to your safe place. Usually, it seems the people will feel a "relief" just to be away from the toxic behaviors (even if they are lonely or second guessing, at first). I am wondering if you just "felt awful" because you were wishing for a turn around from him and haven't gotten it in the way you have wished. Maybe, you felt awful because you can feel that this leaving hasn't made much of a difference? I am just asking.
I think I felt awful for several reasons, but yes, I understand what you're saying. I didn't sleep at all the first night away. I never sleep very well in a place that's not my usual bed. Even when I go on vacation, I don't sleep good the first night. Usually the 2nd night, I'm so exhausted that I sleep good. Then my sleeping habits just get better each night from there. And because I was exhausted, I didn't feel good physically either. My appetite was gone-it's come back a bit though now. I also like routine and consistency, so anything out of the ordinary has a tendency to stress me out. I always try to remember that change is good (usually), but it is difficult to deal with change as that creates an unknown sometimes. And the unknown is stressful for me.
I didn't feel good about how I left. I could have done it better. I'm just not proud of it.
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Flower, I am curious as to what is on your list of "doing everything I could"......what more is left?
I have read some interesting things that professional marrriage therapists have revealed. they say that whenever a couple comes in for marriage counseling---that most of the time, one person already has a foot out of the door, but, wants the marriage counseling so that they can say---"I did everything that I could".
Lol...so, I am asking what is till on your list of things you could have done---but, didn;t?
I have read some interesting things that professional marrriage therapists have revealed. they say that whenever a couple comes in for marriage counseling---that most of the time, one person already has a foot out of the door, but, wants the marriage counseling so that they can say---"I did everything that I could".
Lol...so, I am asking what is till on your list of things you could have done---but, didn;t?
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Originally Posted by dandylion
Flower, I am curious as to what is on your list of "doing everything I could"......what more is left?
I have read some interesting things that professional marrriage therapists have revealed. they say that whenever a couple comes in for marriage counseling---that most of the time, one person already has a foot out of the door, but, wants the marriage counseling so that they can say---"I did everything that I could".
Lol...so, I am asking what is till on your list of things you could have done---but, didn;t?
I have read some interesting things that professional marrriage therapists have revealed. they say that whenever a couple comes in for marriage counseling---that most of the time, one person already has a foot out of the door, but, wants the marriage counseling so that they can say---"I did everything that I could".
Lol...so, I am asking what is till on your list of things you could have done---but, didn;t?
I'm waiting for that feeling "I did everything that I could". And, I haven't experienced it yet. I certainly think it's getting there though because I've taken steps for permanent separation.
At least now, I KNOW that I can walk out. I'm capable of it. I wasn't sure that I could do it.
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Flower.....that puts a different color on the situation....in what I understood what you were saying. Puts a different fold on it.
I got the impression that you were not considering this separation to be permanent.....but, one in a series of many, many separations to come. You implied that you would be cool with that---at least, I thought that is what you were saying.
It has been my experience that anyone who can live with a practicing alcoholic for years and put up with all that comes with it---is MORE than capable of living without the alcoholic.
lol...if you stay gone long enough, I think you might realize this!
I got the impression that you were not considering this separation to be permanent.....but, one in a series of many, many separations to come. You implied that you would be cool with that---at least, I thought that is what you were saying.
It has been my experience that anyone who can live with a practicing alcoholic for years and put up with all that comes with it---is MORE than capable of living without the alcoholic.
lol...if you stay gone long enough, I think you might realize this!
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