pizza67

He’s on the “you’ve done NOTHING to help” (make the kids interact with him) kick again. I just blocked him. I’m sure I’m in for an evening of being told I’m abandoning my role as their mother.

He got mad that I refused to lobby for him while I am in the car with one of our young adults. “You know I really think you should make a point of saying hi to your dad”. I said no that would make them resent us both more. And only he and they can fix anything. He just won’t let it go.

Hawkeye13

How long can you put up with this? Do you think gradually building a Plan B might at least give you some peace of mind, even if you don't act on it right away? This seems like death by a thousand cuts living with this man. Such a toxic environment not just for you but for your kids--hope you can find some peace.

SmallButMighty

His manipulation tactics just never end do they? I don't think it's your job as their mother, or his wife, to try and fix what is broken between he and the kids. That has nothing to do with what kind of a mother you are. You certainly have not abandoned your roll as mother, although you have cast off the role of "fixer" for him and he does not like that. Too bad for him. He doesn't want to mend fences with the kids, he wants to boss everybody around into doing things the way he wants them too. What teenager, heck, what person of any age, responds well to that kind of treatment? To heck with that nonsense! I'd keep him blocked and enjoy the peace and quiet.

Like Hawkeye said, I hope you are getting your ducks in a row so that you can make some changes. It's such a dysfunctional dynamic he is subjecting you all to. I'm sorry all of you have to deal with this chaos.

pizza67

yes I know it’s not my place.
Yes I am working on it

SparkleKitty

He is obviously (still) not able to let it go, but you can. If he really gave a crap about his relationship with the kids, he'd see to it himself. But it isn't about that. It's about inventing a reason to blame something on you. If you counter this reason, he will just find another one. There is no winning any argument with him. Ever.

trailmix

There is absolutely no way in the world (none, nada, zilch) that you can fix this, can't fix him, can't fix the relationship between him and the kids.

This is the point where you shrug and say to yourself, "not my problem".

pizza67

My phone is screwy and sometimes when I think I’ve blocked someone their texts still come through. I have to go on the Apple website to find out why. As such, in the past hour I’ve received texts to this effect: ​​​​​Unless I think it’s good for an X and an X yo to cut their father out of their lives, I’d be helping them, too.
(By pushing them to talk to him)

And that I think that trying to do anything to help will just make things worse. And I should Think about that.

And that he doesn’t want me to get defensive but he is “growing concerned about the increasing frequency of Starbucks purchases.” Because they “show up at what used to be dinner time” and they have caffeine. And calories. And because X has been buying herself fast food lately. (X is thin and exercises)

and he’s “ made it clear that I will eat whatever you put in front of me,” but my menus make it clear that I have no concerns about his sodium intake.

pizza67

And I REALLYwant to understand what kind of pathology these texts represent.

trailmix

Maybe think of it as receiving messages from a person who is mentally disabled, because he is. I don't mean that in a derogatory way. Mental illness is not funny. However, as he is not treated, you can't expect more from him, you really can't. So accept it, he will text you things that make no sense (like all of the above). This is how he thinks.

You will never understand it.

suki44883

There is absolutely no point in trying to understand why he says the things he does. He is a manipulator and is trying to gaslight you. Every time you get into a conversation with him, or even reply to his texts, it just encourages him. Perhaps you should stop encouraging him and start figuring out how you can get out of that nightmare. It isn't going to stop.

pizza67

I know. But he keeps hounding me in the interim. There is no deterring him. He just won’t stop. I keep trying grey rock. Maybe I’m doing it wrong.

trailmix

I personally wouldn't have answered any of those texts because they are statements, not questions true? He told you what he thinks, he didn't ask for your opinion. So no reply required.

However if there were an actual question at some point, good answers are - uh huh or you may be right or I'll think about that (of course you don't actually have to).

Ariesagain

So? Look, I get it, it’s hard not to get caught up in his crap, but you’re giving it way too much time and analysis. You’re caught in the sick cycle of who’s right and who’s wrong and all that’s doing is reinforcing both of your roles in this,

He’s going to keep tweeting you until you respond because eventually you always take the bait, right? So what if Apple or whatever isn’t blocking his garbage... you have the choice, ALWAYS, not to respond.

Take back your power. Your kids aren’t a bargaining chip and it sounds like they’re well aware of it.

Ignore him and figure out how to get out of this situation permanently. Oh, and quit feeding him. He’s an adult...he can make a sandwich.

pizza67

I didn’t respond to any of those texts. And food, I just cook for everyone anyway.

trailmix

So that's good then, you didn't respond, now the next step is to let go of it, basically it has nothing to do with you, those are his ramblings or you could call them opinions. I guess he is entitled to express his opinions if he likes, doesn't mean anyone has to actually listen to them.

This is not possible without your buying in to it. You have to be there for him to speak to you and even if you were sitting right across from him (which, do you really want to?) doesn't mean you have to respond.

How about just walking away. It's not a school, you are not a child and he is not your teacher. Detach.

PeacefulWater12

Or you could focus on you and your kids.

When I was growing up, my mum and dad were so busy with their insane battles that it was very damaging to myself and my siblings.

And here I am all these years later trying to recover and make myself whole. You could maybe save your kids from this.

dandylion

Pizza......I, respectfully, propose that it is a fools errand---amounting to a wild goose chase to try to understand the origins and nature of his particular pathologies. The factors that influence a persons personality and character development are extremely complex and span a long time...beginning at birth (or even before birth---including genetic factors).
Even if you COULD---what good would it do for you. Are you thinking you can "fix" it? You can't. Do you, perhaps, want to give it a lable so that others will understand that he is wrong in his treatment of you and valdate your desire to be away from it. It is external validation from others that you need?
I think it is far more important and constructive to recognize and accept that it IS pathological.and that it is abusive and that you do not cause it and you don't deserve it. Like everyone else, you are entitled to resect and kindness.
What he is doing is wrong and very twisted. He has no right.

mylifeismine

I don't recall if you ever mentioned it, but do you work outside the home Pizza?
Or with covid do you work at home?

Have you read "codependent no more" by Melodie Beattie?
The worst thing about covid is how it hinders people's ability to get in person
help. Are you and your kids getting any therapy or able to do zoom alanon or
alateen meetings?

Although it is important to read and learn about alcoholism and educate yourself
about it, at the same time it is so important to get outside support from
people who understand and can truly help. They won't need a diagnosis of
your husband's mental illness to help you and your children. Whats most
important is that you and your kids can verbalize how it has harmed you.

Is it possible for you and the kids to go and stay with family for a week or
two? Some distance will give you all a break and you will see things more
clearly. It could really help.

SmallButMighty

Pizza, there is a website called "Out of the FOG" It is a support forum, somewhat like this one, but for friends and family of people with personality disorders. There is a bit of a checklist for the different behaviors/disorders, but that is NOT a diagnosis tool. I learned a lot there when dealing with my ex mother in law's Borderline Personality Disorder. My understanding WHY she behaved the way she did, didn't change anything between us, but I felt some small relief knowing WHY she acted so bizarrely. Just like with alcoholism, or codependence or any other affliction, knowledge is power... but it does NOT change anything with the other person. The sick person is still sick and still behaves in a sick manner. Knowing doesn't change the fact that we can still only control ourselves. All that being said, I myself did feel better being able to say . "OK, that's what is wrong with her". At the very least it was one less frustration whirling around in my head.

Pizza, I know you are trying hard to get a grip on all this crap. I know you are trying to find a balance that will work for your entire family. The problem is, I don't think that can be done, it most certainly can't be done when YOU are the only person in the house who wants that. I am very glad you keep talking to us while you are gaining your strength. I do see progress as you keep pushing through.

For what it's worth, I don't think you are doing "grey rock" wrong, maybe just expecting different results? Grey rock is to relieve you of the burden of engaging in his crap, it isn't really about how he will behave. There is always the hope that they will stop saying stupid stuff when they don't get the reactions they want, but that doesn't always ( or even usually) happen.

Hang in there.

pizza67

Believe me I know he won’t and can’t change. I have to get away. No there’s no one we can go to in this area and we aren’t flying anywhere.

This morning :

AH : I was hurt when X wouldn’t say hi to me but said hi to you

me: mm

AH Ignoring someone when they talk is a whole other level. I remember when (anecdote about how he was wronged at work by being ignored)

me: mm

AH: is that ok with you?

me: I’m not going to engage.

AH: But what can I do about it? It’s not like I can say X you should really say hi to your father. Oh wait X says I’m not her father!

me: (headphones go on)

I think I did it right.