pizza67

So...narc dry drunk texted (from the same house) that he won’t attend our teen’s birthday unless
specifically invited by said teen who is not currently speaking to dad. Claimed he didn’t want to be present when unwanted. Then added that he wasn’t going to accept a conditional invite because he was done apologizing when he isn’t told what he did wrong, didn’t do anything to be ostracized, and has been told he isn’t forgiven. (Kids angry about drinking and emotional abuse, tried to explain, doesn’t work)

My take is that this is manipulative. Thoughts about if/how to respond? Thoughts about what to say to kid?

Ariesagain

Yes, it’s manipulative. If you react, it encourages the behavior.

Can you just ignore it? As for whether you tell your teen, you know him best. It might be good if you’re on the same page regarding not responding, but if it’s just going to make your son feel guilty, maybe not mention it?

The only way to win this game is to refuse to play.

SparkleKitty

Maybe your son’s birthday can actually be centered around your son and not his father.

SmallButMighty

Straight up, ridiculous manipulation. Attempting to emotionally blackmail you, but as Aries said, that only works if you play along. I'd suggest you do not.

Like SK said, focus on your son. He probably doesn't want the awkwardness of his dad being part of the celebration anyways considering he isn't speaking to him. I hope your son has a happy and joyous birthday filled with fun and laughter, far removed from a sulking, self centered father.

I would advise ignoring the weird texts from your NH. He can feel as left out and dishonored as he darn well wants. He is the one that is putting himself in that position. He can sit there and fume all to himself while the rest of you enjoy the day disengaged from his chaos.

silentrun

How would you respond to your son being upset with you? Not by making a drama episode to air your grievances I'm sure. Would it even matter if you thought he had a valid reason? Is all a parent knows is that the child is in pain. He doesn't see any other perspective but his own.

pizza67

Thanks guys. I’ve encouraged ignoring but they think I'm ”being a doormat”. They aren’t there yet. Since we are stuck in quarantine for now, I don’t know how to get them to just walk away.

Ariesagain

The only behavior you can control is your own, right? So ignore him. If your husband wants to talk to your son, he knows where he lives. As for your children calling you a “doormat”? Did I understand that correctly? They’re welcome to communicate with their father without your involvement.

“I’m staying out of this” is a statement that works for both sides. It sounds like they’re fighting through you and you can quit that job at any time.

dandylion

pizza......that was my same thought, also---as Aires said----that those two sides are "fighting" through you. sort of a form of triangulation. A way to stop that is to drop the rope on your part of the triangle.

pizza67

Yes. I have tried to disengage. I get rants from AH about how I’m not “being a parenting team” and how I am allowing kids to “abuse him”, and fuming and escalation from kids to the point where if I don’t intervene someone is going to the ER for 24 hour hold. (Mostly an exaggeration). I keep trying to but as of now they are holding me to choose him or them and that makes me feel hopeless and hogtied.

Ariesagain

What would “choosing them” look like, in their minds, do you know?

Are they referring to you leaving with them and divorcing your husband?

Or does it mean continuing to wade in between them and him in endless arguments?

FWIW, they’re teens, but they’re plenty old enough to know making threats is not acceptable, not from anyone. I am not sure what they mean about “someone is going to the ER”?

You seem to be caught between him bullying you and them bullying you. You can’t control his behavior and you can’t control theirs. Something needs to change that dynamic. Do you have access to counseling for yourself?

trailmix

I actually did this once, as a teen, stopped talking to my father that is. For about a month I think. He would say something to me occasionally and I would ignore it and he would smirk. It was great (not). He had hit me (the only time in my life he ever did for the record).

So you know, I know this kind of situation (except my Mother never got involved) and what I am seeing in your posts is that you are trying to play both sides (and there are two sides here, that is very, very clear). Your AH is dragging you around by his rope and they are dragging you around by their ropes and you are trying to keep the peace. I'm sorry to say, you are everyone's punching bag.

How's that going? Terrible. It will never get better until you drop the ropes. You are living in a lake of dysfunction, something has to give here eventually. How much more of this do you honestly think you can take?

There is no "parenting team", this is just him rambling. May as well drop that rope right now.

Personally? I wouldn't reply to the text at all, I would proceed with whatever the birthday plans are and he can join if he wants and not if he doesn't want to. Nothing to do with you at all.

pizza67

Yes they mean I leave him or else I lose them. Yes I am bullied on both sides.

The ER thing is if I don’t intervene in fights, someone ends up suicidal.

I have been in counseling for many years. A good therapist.

pizza67

So how does that translate to my response to my kids’ “it’s him or us” ultimatum?

SparkleKitty

So, the status quo isn't working for anyone--not your AH, not the kids, and not you. Waiting for any of them to see reason or to think about your feelings at all hasn't produced any results, and isn't likely to in the future. If you want your situation to change, you have to change. You have to figure out how to do things differently. If you are not able to leave at this time, what would happen if let your husband and your kids work out their issues without any intervention from you?

I am not saying this will be comfortable, or easy, and obviously everyone's physcial safety is paramount. Sometimes we have to practice prioritizing our own needs even when that feels wrong or selfish. It isn't wrong or selfish, it's just unfamiliar.

As for how to respond to the "it's him or us" ultimatum--that depends on what your choice actually is. If you want to leave but can't right now, or if you have no intention of leaving ever and continuing to just hope he changes enough to tolerate--you can choose to be honest and let them deal with their own reaction. Or you can tell them that you won't be given an ultimatum and let them know you will not be bullied by ANYONE any longer--not him and not them. You have more power here than you give yourself credit for--if you are willing to give over trying to please everyone else, which has been long proven to be impossible, and the effort itself, destructive.

This ongoing dynamic has already caused damage to your family unit. I don't believe that damage has to be permanent, but I can tell you now, pizza, living with alcoholism and codependence as a child WAS a permanent barrier between myself and my parents when I became an adult. My relationship with the codependent parent was just as irreparable as with the alcoholic. It wasn't because they were bad people, or because the things they did and the choices they made growing up were unforgivable, it was because they were people so mired in their own dysfunction that they were simply unhealthy for me to continue to be around. They would not change. They would say they "couldn't" change, but I know now that that was just a narrative they created for themselves to believe because they were AFRAID to change. You don't want to look back years from now and wish you had tried something different.

pizza67

Yes I know. But the consequences of losing the kids are unbearable to me. This is where I feel frozen. I know it’s not their decision whether I stay. But if I do then I lose them? Who could bear that? And the narc rage of leaving, the consequences of that, while I have been working on recognizing his blathering threats (not physical, but financial, etc) as just that, are terrifying.

In more immediate concerns: since kid and I ignored the text, NH repeated it verbally and told kid to say yea or no to his attendance. I told NH to not make this about him and he just went back to “I’m not, I don’t want to be where I’m not welcome”, which is really just him forcing kid to invite him. I don’t know what to advise kid to do. Or if to advise him. I’d also like a good response to the “you don’t have my
back, you are refusing to parent the kids,
you are not acting as a parenting team” quacking. I don’t want to J. A. D. E.

dandylion

pizza........A response to his critical statement, might be "You have your opinion and I have mine, and, never the twain shall meet". Then, don't say ANOTHER word--and/or change the subject or leave the room.

Just curious---is the party to be held in the home or in some other place? As I recall, the kids are somewhere between 16 and 18 years of age?

dandylion

pizza......dont forget about quacking......A technique that is often spoken about on this forum.
When stupid, or manipulative, twisted or hurtful things are coming out of their mouth----mentally, visualize them as a small quacking duck----quacking insignificant nothings in a loud noise.
This can help you from having an intense compulsion to react back. reacting back gives the quacker undeserved importance and credence.

pizza67

yea. We are adhering to Dr Fauci’s recommendations. It is only our nuclear family in our house.

dandylion

pizza......I think you misunderstood me----I was not referring to That at all---lol. I was wondering if your husband would be under the same roof when the party is going on. In other words---will the party be held in your private home or at some other place?

Ariesagain

Let me try another approach...your kids are going to be adults soon, regardless, yes? That leaves you in a house with your husband, alone, which doesn’t sound like that’s what you want? And yes, if you “choose” the kids, you’re ultimately going to “lose” them anyway, because they will have their own lives. So...given these realities...what do YOU want for your life?

Your therapist should be helping you develop more strategies for coping with all of them, even role playing for practice. And he/she should be encouraging you to make a plan for what happens when the vaccine is distributed and life can resume. So that gives you a good 8 months to a year to figure out alternatives, yes? If your therapist isn’t versed in helping people in abuse situations or with codependency, you might want to want another resource.

In the meantime, practice your best shrug. It’s a nonverbal way to say, “it is what it is.” As for the “party,” (it’s just your household, correct?), in 2020 it was never going to be a blowout Mardi Gras. Do what you were going to do and if the husband shows up, he shows up and if your son is pissed, your son is pissed. Everyone is asking you to control the impossible and continuing to try is just making it worse for yourself.