Forevertoolong

Now that our decision has been made and we are splitting up for good, I am having a variety of thoughts and emotions.

- It is my fault for choosing someone so mixed up, how did I not notice the extent of it when we met? What was happening with me that I fell for that?
- I could have avoided putting my chldren through this, but then they wouldn't be here. So I have to remember that without him I would not have them. I have a lot of guilt.
- I didn't realise until around 2-3 years ago that addiction was the crux of our issues. All that time I wasted SO much energy, time and headspace trying to control and fix, all for nothing. I was never going to be able to compete with addiction.
- Why didn't I just distance/let go with love? I feel ashamed about some of my toxic behaviour.
- Given he is sick, shouldn't I be there for him and honour my vows by standing by in sickness and health (really DONT want to stay though).
- What if he now spirals because he has 'permission' to live how he wants to live? How will this impact him, our kids our finances etc.
- What if he invites the dodgy friends over when he has the kids? I hate the thought of this. Can I ask him not to as a condition of the separation?
- Why is he hardly talking about how he feels or asking me how I feel? Are addicts not capable of that? Does he not care?

Arrggghh, so much on my mind.

DesertEyes

Hello Forevertoolong, and pleased to "meet" you.

I will try to answer your questions based on my experience with my ex-wife and her pill addiction.

Why would you? Even shrinks with years of experience get tangled up in the mess of addiction. Unless you have a crystal ball I don't think you can blame yourself.

I do that too. I judge the person I was many years ago based on the knowledge I acquired in Al-Anon and a good shrink. It's not realistic, and not fair to me.

That is exactly what I wondered when I first separated from my ex. My sponsor pointed out that marriage is a two way deal, with both partners giving 100%. My ex stopped being my wife long before I accepted it. The vows I took only applied to the person I married, not to the person she became in addiction.

There is no "because" in addiction. Whatever he does with his life has nothing to do with you. Whenever I find myself doing the "what ifs" it's just a bit of denial trying to give me some illusion of control.

That's something you need to ask your attorney.

I do that too. I try to figure out the reasoning behind her actions. If I can do that then I can present a reasonable discussion and, once again, try to control her. Even if I could read her mind there is nothing I can say or do that will force her to change.

Of course. Addiction of any kind is a mind-twister on the peeps that love the addict. That is why there's huge international organizations like Al-Anon, and hundreds of books on the subject, and a whole industry of family therapists. If this stuff were easy we wouldn't need any of that.

Mike

dandylion

forevertoolong-----I left you a post on your other thread. I hope you will read it.

trailmix

Just a suggestion with regard to visitation and the dodgy friends, I assume they are drinking buddies? I would strongly recommend talking to your attorney about sobriety testing before/during visitation. Something like Soberlink.

Although, since he doesn't really want to be mr. family guy, he may require less visitation than you anticipate, but always wise to ask for what you require at the start.

As for choosing him, I have thought about this in reading so many stories here. The first time I married I was quite young and my (now ex) husband was in the army and drank a lot. I did too, well on the weekends, we had a lot of fun. It never occurred to me that he might have a drinking problem. After a couple of years we got married and a year later we had a child. I just kind of assumed we would settle down a bit, we have responsibilities now etc etc (which I think is what a lot of people probably think). In fact that is what happened. Sure we still went out once in a while, but it wasn't frequent, the focus was our child and our responsibilities.

Now, that could have absolutely not gone that way! He drank often, I never thought to question it. His friends all drank and in fact his best friend was an alcoholic I think. Unless you really knew about alcoholism and could see in to the future that he would want to be party man and unless he told you his feelings about children and domestic-type life, how would you know.

Some people think that is what they want, the wife/husband, nice yard, few children, good job and it turns out that isn't actually compatible with what they want at all. They want to continue going out and partying and drinking or it could even be other things. They could have a passion for motorcycles and decide to go on a trip with the guys every weekend. Their intent may have been good but it just doesn't work for them.

You know, you will need a little bit of time away from this to get clarity, it's very hard to deal with all these feelings, sadness, guilt etc when you are right there. Give it time, perhaps put it aside for the moment until you are out and can see things a bit better, you may get a completely different perspective.

SparkleKitty

Mike did a pretty terrific job sharing his experience on a lot of your questions. Sometimes I think our guilt and confusion comes from the dawning realization that we don't have as much control over things as we have always believed we have, or that we should. The truth is we do the best we can with what we know and understand at the time, and there is no point flogging ourselves for things we did or decided before we understood.

On this question, though, I think it's worth pointing out:

Well...no. I mean, it's not that he doesn't care. Whether he does or doesn't, I couldn't say, but it's irrelevant. Even if he does care, his primary tool for dealing with uncomfortable emotions is drinking, which has led to his addiction. It really isn't reasonable for anyone to expect an alcoholic to deal with their emotions, or others' emotions, in any other way, like talking about them or even acknowledging them.

This is one area where focusing on whatever he is doing/thinking/feeling is just going to frustrate and confuse you, because you are not an addict. That time and energy is far better spent taking care of yourself and your kids.

woodlandlost

Forever,

I think your thoughts are pretty darn natural to have at the stage you are at. A lot of questions you bring up sound like the awesome stage of bargaining. I too am at a similar stage in the end of my marriage, and I can tell you those questions filled my mind 24/7. Al-Anon and my sponsor has really helped me. There is a poem by Rumi (and I will poorly paraphrase this), that with each though/question, which Rumi refers to as "guests", let them in, welcome them and figure out what they are here to tell us. I have been trying that for a few weeks now and slowly, it helps to gain perspective...but guess what? It still hurts.

I wish you an awesome day.

salt740

Wow, Mike you just dropped some seriously golden knowledge, and you said it in the simplest, best way possible. Even a few months separated from my ex A, I still have deep pangs of missing them and wondering what the heck all of their crazy, often contradicting behavior all meant. What does it mean when someone says they want to marry you and offer to make sacrifices in their life for you and then the next moment tell you that they're not interested in committing to you? Why does he have a completely backwards perception of our dynamic? Why doesn't he want help? Why doesn't he want to put the slightest bit of effort into having a healthy relationship? These burning questions are just the kindling for a roaring desire to control. It's not actually productive to sit and wonder about a person who sabotages themselves on a minute to minute basis. Accepting that I can't crack the mystery of an alcoholic being is MY biggest hurdle. But what you said is perfect: "Even if I could read her mind there is nothing I can say or do that will force her to change." Thank you <3

DesertEyes

salt740 - Thank you for the compliment.

Mike

Forevertoolong

It’s so hard because he can be so great, great with the kids, hands on around house, supportive of my pursuits, funny etc.

is it normal to doubt your decision at this point in the process? I felt such clarity a few days ago.

No one is perfect. Am I expecting life to be perfect?! He likes to go drinking with the boys, big deal so do a lot of guys?

he finds parenthood too hard, so do a lot of dads?

he’s let me down 100s of times, yes and I’ve been awful to him in response?

why am I doubting when I’ve been so clear until now!

this is so hard!

SparkleKitty

First of all it is normal to have doubts on the verge of any major life changing decision.

Secondly, it isn’t really about what a lot of other dads also do and whether that is okay. It is about what you want in a partner and whether you can reasonably expect to get it from him.

It is about knowing in your heart that you deserve the life you want, and you do not have to settle for scraps of that. It is about making room in your life for what you deserve.

It is not unreasonable to expect an attentive, present partner who enjoys all aspects of being a parent (or at least, most aspects). But it may be too much to expect it from him.

dandylion

forever----it is Totally normal to have doubts and start second guessing. As Sparklekitty points out---every big life decision has second guessing involved---especially in the planning and early part, for most people. As one gains back their self confidence and self esteem, the fears about change fade away.

trailmix

I think it's normal. I have been divorced twice. Certainly the first time I had almost immediate regret. What have I done! etc etc. In hindsight it was the best thing for me but at the time it was just, scary.

This is 100 percent true (and I imagine you have heard it a thousand times). Thing is, it's ok (good) with him, certainly ok with the guys, but is it ok for you and your family?

I absolutely could not be in a relationship with someone who was "out with the boys" on any kind of regular basis. I know this for a fact. I don't even care how perfect he might be in other aspects of our lives, this would make me miserable. I am a big proponent of live and let live. You want to drink? Drink! But not at my expense.

You've also mentioned he may not be an alcoholic technically, that he may not be truly addicted in a medical sense. That could also be true. However that's not really the point. The point is his lifestyle and yours are not in sync.

You being awful to him in response? Ok, you can take ownership of that, they may not have been your finest moments, but you didn't know then what you know now. Going forward it's something you can work on. All these things are things where we learn about ourselves as well. When people talk here about doing your own work, this is one of those things, you can't control what you can't control.

He has told you he thinks he didn't really want children at all (he is telling you the truth here) and you railroaded him in to it. He called your boys "f-ing idiots" for letting the bath overflow a bit. He shunned your Son that didn't want to go for a walk originally then went anyway. You are right to be concerned about all this. This is really damaging for kids. Kids are basically powerless, they have you and your Husband to protect them. He is not protective in all ways. You mentioned, well what if you just let things slide and talked to him about these issues after the fact and let him have his militant ways. I disagree with that, if you try to solve these issues behind closed doors and the kids don't see you protecting them, who do they think they can rely on?

It's not all straight forward, it never will be, there are always reasons to stay or go.

Are you happy? Are your kids happy and fairly well adjusted? Do you feel contentment? Do you feel loved?

Forevertoolong

trailmix I am not happy or content. The closest thing I felt to happiness and contentment was the day after the decision. I have not felt “safe” in my marriage for a number of years, from the point of few of feeling loved, respected and like he has my back no matter what.

on Sunday, despite us going through all of this and the reasons why, he left to meet one of the guys in the park with the dog. He went at 4 and took 6 beers with him. He rang me at 6pm to say he was going off to one of the other guys houses. I said whilst I know I shouldn’t be, I am surprised that you are choosing to do this at a time like this. He couldn’t understand. Then he came in at 8pm visibly drunk, grabbed a bottle of wine and left to go to dodgy guys house. I’m sitting there playing a board game with 2 of the kids. One of the kids is in the bath. He just walks out the door to go and get more drunk.

these are the things I need to remember.

our kids are lovely. Teachers and friends all comment on how lovely they are, do well at school lots of friends etc. Two of them
could be happier I think and of them
has anxiety. The psych I am working with suggested our sons anxiety may even improve when AH leaves.

There was a time recently when all 3 of them were acting out and H sat them down and told them “they’re being really hard to love.” He said good behavior = more love. I mean c’mon.

why am I even second guessing.

trailmix

Because it's natural to second guess and it's a big change.

You know another thing, when we are in a relationship that isn't working, we tend to get used to things that we shouldn't. Things like being hit, yelled at, sworn at or called names, while it might shock you the first of second time, it becomes kind of normal.

From an outside perspective, this is actually shocking, there are so many negatives attached to his statement I wouldn't know where to begin. But again, these types of things become less shocking the more you hear them.

Being hit, yelled at, sworn at, I have been all those things at one time or another, so please don't think i'm judging you. I just hope you know that people do understand why there is a hesitancy.

Sometimes, when doing something that is uncomfortable (like leaving a marriage) we have to steel ourselves. I'm all for feeling your feelings, but sometimes we have to put that aside for the greater good, until we get through the challenging time so we don't give in to fear or sadness.

If you believe that you are doing the right thing for the greater good, time to steel yourself?

I'm glad to hear your kids are doing pretty well. I bet the anxiety will lessen once he is out of the house.

Forevertoolong

Thanks trailmix Feeling clear again today, yesterday was obviously just a little wobble.

you’re right, some of the behaviour has become normalised.

I was SO devastated when I heard him say that to the kids. I walked my boys to school that day and one of them said “why does daddy always make us sad”

I actually got on the phone to the psych to ask how to repair it because I just knew the damage caused by him saying those things was so significant. He (as always) thought I was over reacting.

i do think if I am honest that he has emotionally abused the kids in different ways over the years. It gets diluted by all the fun and love he’s also provided, but I have to face the truth of the dark side and foe damaging that will be if I continues.

I have a responsibility to my children to end this marriage, it is 1000 percent the right thing.

thank you so much for giving me more strength.

Forevertoolong

Thanks trailmix Feeling clear again today, yesterday was obviously just a little wobble.

you’re right, some of the behaviour has become normalised.

I was SO devastated when I heard him say that to the kids. I walked my boys to school that day and one of them said “why does daddy always make us sad”

I actually got on the phone to the psych to ask how to repair it because I just knew the damage caused by him saying those things was so significant. He (as always) thought I was over reacting.

i do think if I am honest that he has emotionally abused the kids in different ways over the years. It gets diluted by all the fun and love he’s also provided, but I have to face the truth of the dark side and foe damaging that will be if I continues.

I have a responsibility to my children to end this marriage, it is 1000 percent the right thing.

thank you so much for giving me more strength.

FallenAngelina

For me, the emergence of abuse was the tipping point. Abuse is abuse, whether the abuser is fun & loving or not. Actually, what I know of abuse is that the abuser is almost always loving in addition to being abusive.

The damage of abuse actually is not diluted. It's 100% damage, whether he is "fun" at other times or not. The clarity about the situation is perhaps blurred or diluted, but the damage is not. The damage is the damage.

dandylion

forever------I think what FallenAngel just said is worth printing out--and, keeping handy, so that you can read it over and over when you start to feel the wobbles.

mylifeismine

"I was SO devastated when I heard him say that to the kids. I walked my boys to school that day and one of them said “why does daddy always make us sad”"

This stopped my scroll in its tracks, made me tear up, and is very disturbing to me.

This is your child trying to tell you that he is learning/ being taught to believe he is unloveable.

There is an ACOA thread on SR. It might be helpful for you to look at when you are
feeling wobbly. Abusers are only nice/fun as needed so victims will not leave.

dandylion

forever-----mylifeismine speaks the Truth, also. You might get the literature of ACOA ----"Adult Children of Alcoholics" in the book section of amazon.com.
At least, read the literature----I think that it will really, really resonate with you. It will open your mind----lol, maybe, even blow your mind.