I shouldn’t have quit cold turkey
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I shouldn’t have quit cold turkey
Things have been difficult for AH lately. Rough night tonight. Almost a year ago, he got rid of all the alcohol in the house. He’s snuck it in or has drunk it elsewhere since.
He got some bad news this afternoon and was in one of his moods this evening. He lashed out some, saying that he shouldn’t have gotten rid of all of it. He should have phased it out. That then he wouldn’t have to sneak around and lie.
He talked about the “look” I get. That I’m judgmental and that his friends all say the same thing. That he knows I don’t think that way but that’s how I come across.
Truth is, I don’t drink. I don’t like the taste. No moral objections. I didn’t have a problem with him having a glass of wine or a beer as long as he wasn’t getting out of control or it wasn’t having a negative effect on his attitude or behavior.
Does all of that sound familiar? I admit it made me feel a bit alarmed to hear him talking about how getting rid of it all “made him sneak and lie.” Or passive-aggressively twisting things around as if he were trying to make me feel guilty or responsible somehow.
Maybe I’m being too sensitive or hyper-vigilant.
He got some bad news this afternoon and was in one of his moods this evening. He lashed out some, saying that he shouldn’t have gotten rid of all of it. He should have phased it out. That then he wouldn’t have to sneak around and lie.
He talked about the “look” I get. That I’m judgmental and that his friends all say the same thing. That he knows I don’t think that way but that’s how I come across.
Truth is, I don’t drink. I don’t like the taste. No moral objections. I didn’t have a problem with him having a glass of wine or a beer as long as he wasn’t getting out of control or it wasn’t having a negative effect on his attitude or behavior.
Does all of that sound familiar? I admit it made me feel a bit alarmed to hear him talking about how getting rid of it all “made him sneak and lie.” Or passive-aggressively twisting things around as if he were trying to make me feel guilty or responsible somehow.
Maybe I’m being too sensitive or hyper-vigilant.
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You aren't being "too sensitive" or "hyper-vigilant".
You applied a boundary (and it's a pretty generous boundary I think, considering he actually wants to drink much much more and in the house)
Kind of a drink if you want, but not a lot around me.
Ok
That's not what he wants and yes, he is blaming you and trying to make you feel guilty - it's not just him you know! His friends (drinking buddies) think so too! Does that matter? You have a boundary - period, you don't have to justify it to him or anyone else.
Now, with a boundary, he can absolutely choose to hop over it, he doesn't have to stick to it. Or is it a rule you expect him to follow?
If it's a rule, you have zero control, he is a grown man and will do as he likes. If it is a boundary, the ball is in your court you say to yourself - I will not put up with X behaviour or I will not live with someone who is doing Y. When X and Y happen, YOU get to choose what YOU are going to do. Leave, stay, ignore him and it, that is your power over yourself.
If you expect an alcoholic to stick to your "rules" without any repercussions, that's not a battle you will win. You only have control over yourself.
You applied a boundary (and it's a pretty generous boundary I think, considering he actually wants to drink much much more and in the house)
I didn’t have a problem with him having a glass of wine or a beer as long as he wasn’t getting out of control or it wasn’t having a negative effect on his attitude or behavior.
Ok
That's not what he wants and yes, he is blaming you and trying to make you feel guilty - it's not just him you know! His friends (drinking buddies) think so too! Does that matter? You have a boundary - period, you don't have to justify it to him or anyone else.
Now, with a boundary, he can absolutely choose to hop over it, he doesn't have to stick to it. Or is it a rule you expect him to follow?
If it's a rule, you have zero control, he is a grown man and will do as he likes. If it is a boundary, the ball is in your court you say to yourself - I will not put up with X behaviour or I will not live with someone who is doing Y. When X and Y happen, YOU get to choose what YOU are going to do. Leave, stay, ignore him and it, that is your power over yourself.
If you expect an alcoholic to stick to your "rules" without any repercussions, that's not a battle you will win. You only have control over yourself.
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Stany------if an alcoholic feels like a person is coming between them and their ability to drink at will---that person is seen as the "enemy". Even, if that person is a loved one. Drinking buddies are the favored ones because they celebrate and encourage the alcoholics ability to drink as much as they want, when they want.
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Originally Posted by Stany 
He talked about the “look” I get. That I’m judgmental and that his friends all say the same thing. That he knows I don’t think that way but that’s how I come across.
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Stany, my AXH used to pull the same kind of stuff on me. It's pretty typical. I agree, it is alarming to hear an adult man blame you for his ridiculous choices, but it's all too common when married to an alcoholic. It would be concerning if that didn't concern you, it should very much concern you. It's abusive behavior.
You didn't (don't) make him drink.
You didn't make him dump out the booze.
You didn't make him hide booze
You didn't make him tell lies and be deceitful
Those are all choices he makes for himself. You very well may have made suggestions or even demands, but what he did or didn't do about that is all on him.
When they talk to us like that it makes us doubt ourselves. I lived that life for a long time, I know how it feels. It's so very cruel, and yes, abusive, that they turn all that is broken in them on to us and then blame us because they "had" to do it. It's a really heavy load, but the good thing is we do NOT have to bear that which is not ours. Please refuse to carry what he is trying to foist on to you.
I'd take anything he "SAYS" his friends said with a grain of salt. A dry drunk's words are just as poisonous as a wet one's.
Just because someone slows down or even stops drinking does not mean the person is in recovery. It was often easier to live with my AXH when he WAS drinking compared to the times he was white-knuckling his sobriety. The tension in the air was palpable. It was like watching a caged tiger pace back and forth in his cage, furious that you'd put him in there.... I'm sure he was uncomfortable himself with his compulsion to drink driving him insane, while my anxiety waiting for him to screw up yet again was just as bad. It was a very toxic cycle, it killed our marriage.
Hang in there, I know this stuff isn't easy. Just remember, you are not responsible for his choices, don't let him convince you otherwise.
You didn't (don't) make him drink.
You didn't make him dump out the booze.
You didn't make him hide booze
You didn't make him tell lies and be deceitful
Those are all choices he makes for himself. You very well may have made suggestions or even demands, but what he did or didn't do about that is all on him.
When they talk to us like that it makes us doubt ourselves. I lived that life for a long time, I know how it feels. It's so very cruel, and yes, abusive, that they turn all that is broken in them on to us and then blame us because they "had" to do it. It's a really heavy load, but the good thing is we do NOT have to bear that which is not ours. Please refuse to carry what he is trying to foist on to you.
I'd take anything he "SAYS" his friends said with a grain of salt. A dry drunk's words are just as poisonous as a wet one's.
Just because someone slows down or even stops drinking does not mean the person is in recovery. It was often easier to live with my AXH when he WAS drinking compared to the times he was white-knuckling his sobriety. The tension in the air was palpable. It was like watching a caged tiger pace back and forth in his cage, furious that you'd put him in there.... I'm sure he was uncomfortable himself with his compulsion to drink driving him insane, while my anxiety waiting for him to screw up yet again was just as bad. It was a very toxic cycle, it killed our marriage.
Hang in there, I know this stuff isn't easy. Just remember, you are not responsible for his choices, don't let him convince you otherwise.
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Join Date: Aug 2020
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Thank you all so much! It really helps to get perspective.
trailmix: Very good point on rules v. boundaries. It’s an important distinction I haven’t thought much about. Ultimately, I’d say I think of it as a boundary. I’ve made it clear to him many times that he’s an adult and his decisions are his own. I won’t tell him what to do (even when he wants me to). But my reactions to his actions are mine.
If he wants to have an occasional glass of wine and it doesn’t lead to his blowing up or other damaging behavior, that’s fine. If it causes trouble, that’s where I need to have a plan in place for how I deal with it. Something to think about.
dandylion: I hunk he does sometimes blame me for it, though it was his choice. He’s big on blame. And when he’s in a mood, he blames me in some way for all the decisions he regrets. I’ve spent a lot of time with his friends and they’re not serious drinkers (or don’t seem to be) so they’re not exactly a problem in that regard. Thing is, I suspect he tells them his own skewed edited versions of events, gets their faulty input and goes with it.
Fallen: Do I think there’s something to the look accusations? Quite possibly. He’s hyper-sensitive to facial expressions. I could easily have a look at times. Sometimes I think he’s hyper sensitive or feeling insecure or guilty about something and either sees things that aren’t there or misinterprets.
I do plan to try to pay more atttntion to my expressions. I genuinely don’t have a problem with people drinking around me — as long as no one gets hurt, drinks to passing out or tries to drive inebriated. But could I get a look that could be misinterpreted? Possibly, I guess.
small: I used to get very worried and upset when he would tell me that someone had a problem with me or agreed with him about something he thought I was doing wrong, etc. Not so much anymore.
I know that they could easily be getting a fuzzy story from him. Anything they hear has been through a prism and isn’t likely to be 100% trustworthy.
Also, their responses, again, filtered through him, aren’t fully trustworthy either. Did they really say what he claims they did? Or is he putting a spin on it? Or did he just hear and interpret what he wanted to?
Far better for me to listen to see if there’s any truth or anything constructive to learn from it, then do what I feel and believe is best and right.
trailmix: Very good point on rules v. boundaries. It’s an important distinction I haven’t thought much about. Ultimately, I’d say I think of it as a boundary. I’ve made it clear to him many times that he’s an adult and his decisions are his own. I won’t tell him what to do (even when he wants me to). But my reactions to his actions are mine.
If he wants to have an occasional glass of wine and it doesn’t lead to his blowing up or other damaging behavior, that’s fine. If it causes trouble, that’s where I need to have a plan in place for how I deal with it. Something to think about.
dandylion: I hunk he does sometimes blame me for it, though it was his choice. He’s big on blame. And when he’s in a mood, he blames me in some way for all the decisions he regrets. I’ve spent a lot of time with his friends and they’re not serious drinkers (or don’t seem to be) so they’re not exactly a problem in that regard. Thing is, I suspect he tells them his own skewed edited versions of events, gets their faulty input and goes with it.
Fallen: Do I think there’s something to the look accusations? Quite possibly. He’s hyper-sensitive to facial expressions. I could easily have a look at times. Sometimes I think he’s hyper sensitive or feeling insecure or guilty about something and either sees things that aren’t there or misinterprets.
I do plan to try to pay more atttntion to my expressions. I genuinely don’t have a problem with people drinking around me — as long as no one gets hurt, drinks to passing out or tries to drive inebriated. But could I get a look that could be misinterpreted? Possibly, I guess.
small: I used to get very worried and upset when he would tell me that someone had a problem with me or agreed with him about something he thought I was doing wrong, etc. Not so much anymore.
I know that they could easily be getting a fuzzy story from him. Anything they hear has been through a prism and isn’t likely to be 100% trustworthy.
Also, their responses, again, filtered through him, aren’t fully trustworthy either. Did they really say what he claims they did? Or is he putting a spin on it? Or did he just hear and interpret what he wanted to?
Far better for me to listen to see if there’s any truth or anything constructive to learn from it, then do what I feel and believe is best and right.
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Originally Posted by Stany
. ... passive-aggressively twisting things around as if he were trying to make me feel guilty or responsible somehow.
Maybe I’m being too sensitive or hyper-vigilant.
Maybe I’m being too sensitive or hyper-vigilant.
Uh. I think you nailed it.
Or maybe you're not...
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Stany, you said "He’s hyper-sensitive to facial expressions. . . .Sometimes I think he’s hyper sensitive or feeling insecure or guilty about something and either sees things that aren’t there or misinterprets."
Wow. That's my alcoholic ex exactly. I'm an attorney so if I get off the phone with a difficult client my look could be frustrated or something like that, and if I so much as look up one second later while still thinking about my awful client and that same look happens to be on my face, he will ask me if I'm mad at him or ask me whether I no longer am into him. I'm like, "What are you talking about?" Hyper sensitive does not even begin to describe it with my ex. Do you think they are so used to having people mad at them from drinking related behavior that they develop that hyper sensitivity? Or, that their hyper sensitivity/worry leads them to drink in the first place? Of all things I've noticed about my ex, his hyper sensitivity stands out to me more than anything. It's unlike anything I've ever seen, and I would say that I'm a hyper sensitive (but not drinking) person myself.
Dandylion, you said, " ... if an alcoholic feels like a person is coming between them and their ability to drink at will---that person is seen as the "enemy". Even, if that person is a loved one. Drinking buddies are the favored ones because they celebrate and encourage the alcoholics ability to drink as much as they want, when they want."
So true. I just learned that lesson the hardest way. My alcoholic boyfriend absolutely adored me ... until I gently confronted him about his drinking in the kindest way possible. I guess because he sensed I was about to come between him and his drinking, he immediately said I was the enemy (not using that word but his actions showed me when he stopped talking to me after months and months of us talking and seeing each other sometimes multiple times each day) and he reverted to hanging out with his immature (literally -- they are 15 years younger, they don't have jobs, you name it) drinking buddies even though those same "buddies" have stolen from him (his wallet, his phone) to get their own fix in the past. Unbelievable.
I spent weeks trying to figure this out on my own -- meaning I spent weeks trying to understand how a gentle question that starts with compliments about how much I miss him and the stuff we used to do when he drinks and ended by me just saying if he ever wants help I'd like to help because he is such a truly amazing person ... how that could result in him simply stop talking to me. We were so close for so long. Truly close. We could talk for hours and we did talk for hours about everything and anything. Our work, music, movies, hopes, dreams, family, etc. To be dropped like that for asking one question is just ... heartbreaking.
Wow. That's my alcoholic ex exactly. I'm an attorney so if I get off the phone with a difficult client my look could be frustrated or something like that, and if I so much as look up one second later while still thinking about my awful client and that same look happens to be on my face, he will ask me if I'm mad at him or ask me whether I no longer am into him. I'm like, "What are you talking about?" Hyper sensitive does not even begin to describe it with my ex. Do you think they are so used to having people mad at them from drinking related behavior that they develop that hyper sensitivity? Or, that their hyper sensitivity/worry leads them to drink in the first place? Of all things I've noticed about my ex, his hyper sensitivity stands out to me more than anything. It's unlike anything I've ever seen, and I would say that I'm a hyper sensitive (but not drinking) person myself.
Dandylion, you said, " ... if an alcoholic feels like a person is coming between them and their ability to drink at will---that person is seen as the "enemy". Even, if that person is a loved one. Drinking buddies are the favored ones because they celebrate and encourage the alcoholics ability to drink as much as they want, when they want."
So true. I just learned that lesson the hardest way. My alcoholic boyfriend absolutely adored me ... until I gently confronted him about his drinking in the kindest way possible. I guess because he sensed I was about to come between him and his drinking, he immediately said I was the enemy (not using that word but his actions showed me when he stopped talking to me after months and months of us talking and seeing each other sometimes multiple times each day) and he reverted to hanging out with his immature (literally -- they are 15 years younger, they don't have jobs, you name it) drinking buddies even though those same "buddies" have stolen from him (his wallet, his phone) to get their own fix in the past. Unbelievable.
I spent weeks trying to figure this out on my own -- meaning I spent weeks trying to understand how a gentle question that starts with compliments about how much I miss him and the stuff we used to do when he drinks and ended by me just saying if he ever wants help I'd like to help because he is such a truly amazing person ... how that could result in him simply stop talking to me. We were so close for so long. Truly close. We could talk for hours and we did talk for hours about everything and anything. Our work, music, movies, hopes, dreams, family, etc. To be dropped like that for asking one question is just ... heartbreaking.
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Originally Posted by OKRunner
I'd like to help
The reason that your BF prefers his immature friends is because they don't ask him to look at what frightens him. You do. This is why offers to help are usually perceived as violations and are met with rebuke. I don't think that active alcoholics are all that calculating in their responses, trying to get us to feel guilty or whatever. They (active alcoholics) just want whoever is pushing this infected FEAR button to stop pushing this infected FEAR button. We take it personally and of course it feels incredibly personal, but an active alcoholic who hasn't chosen to change everything he knows, who hasn't chosen to give up every safety net he has that helps him deal with his fear is going to do everything he can to keep clinging to whatever safety he has. Anything or anyone who comes between him and his safety net is going to get pushed away. This is why well meaning loved ones are met with such vitriol when trying to help and why fellow alcoholics are in the best position to truly help one another when an alcoholic is ready to choose sobriety and recovery. Offering help and being pushed away by an active alcoholic is all about FEAR.
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Originally Posted by Stany
Almost a year ago, he got rid of all the alcohol in the house. He’s snuck it in or has drunk it elsewhere since.
...He lashed out some, saying that he shouldn’t have gotten rid of all of it. He should have phased it out. That then he wouldn’t have to sneak around and lie.
...He lashed out some, saying that he shouldn’t have gotten rid of all of it. He should have phased it out. That then he wouldn’t have to sneak around and lie.
Originally Posted by Stany
Things have been difficult for AH lately.
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The 'look' and 'twisting'. I get that from the A here. The second they don't like or misinterpret what I or someone else says can set them off on a tirade.
They say don't give a narcissist which many As are or show traits of anything to debate or information that they will be use against you by 'twisting' it to fit their narrative. Like addicts As frequently obsess on certain issues and many are always looking for validation ie their narrative, perspective or opinion to prevail-it's all about them. The second you think or it feels like a- debate/argument get out. They will not only twist and contort they will not drop until they 'win'.
They say don't give a narcissist which many As are or show traits of anything to debate or information that they will be use against you by 'twisting' it to fit their narrative. Like addicts As frequently obsess on certain issues and many are always looking for validation ie their narrative, perspective or opinion to prevail-it's all about them. The second you think or it feels like a- debate/argument get out. They will not only twist and contort they will not drop until they 'win'.
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So many great perspectives here — thank y’all for the input!
In my AH’s case, I strongly believe his drinking is a symptom of a bigger, deeper issue — possibly a personality disorder. He has blackouts and dissociative episodes, usually connected to alcohol but not always. So lots to deal with, beyond alcohol.
But he definitely has the defensiveness and secretiveness.
In my AH’s case, I strongly believe his drinking is a symptom of a bigger, deeper issue — possibly a personality disorder. He has blackouts and dissociative episodes, usually connected to alcohol but not always. So lots to deal with, beyond alcohol.
But he definitely has the defensiveness and secretiveness.
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