Blackout sex...again
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Blackout sex...again
Hi everyone, I found this when I was trying to browse for some kind of answers or help.
I have a flatmate that I started seeing around a year ago on casual basis. She's 28. She had a very bad drinking problem then and realistically still does. Whenever she'd get drunk she'd do cocaine, wake up drink more wine and go to work. As things progressed I did my best to help her stop because she didn't see a problem with any of that or at least so she said but I knew she was simply lying to herself. She has had trauma in the past, screwed up child-hood, being taken advantage of in her 20s, going to parties blacking out and finding someone "there" behind her. She's also had abuse from people in her recent past that she always defended even with the ****** up things they did to her. In some worst case scenarios she calls the same person to console her but has realised they're just not good for her
A few days ago she got very very drunk at work, took cocaine and ended up having sex over a toilet with her co-worker. The next day after this we were supposed to go shop together and when I saw her I could see she was having the worst hangover of her life and I got upset that she was drinking again and she fully well knows her "1-2" drinks never ends well because she can't stop. She left early during the day later telling that she just had to be alone. After I asked her questions she told me she thinks she had sex with someone after closing at work but literally remembers nothing apart from waking up on her knees and being ****** from the back and just letting it happen. There were a lot of people as it was work drinks. It took a lot of convincing to do something about it and get to the bottom of it. The guy denied everything and said has no idea what happened, that he lost control and that she should just let it go as everyone had a good night, he's married. We both genuinely thought it was rape although she questioned it and wasn't sure if she instigated this during her drunken state. We thought she went to puke in the bathroom and someone followed her in...
I took her to view the cctv footage and she seemed fine the whole night, it would've been hard to tell that she was actually drunk. The thing is the video shows how him and her are casually talking and going into the bathroom together, to do some more cocaine i presume and not to ****.
Her hands were shaking and she looked mortified as she was showing this to me. They walked out together out of the bathroom, and she doesn't remember the other 2-3 hours until him, her and another cooworker got in an uber and everyone went their homes.
She doesn't remember anything and says that watching those videos is like watching someone else. There are a lot of other things which she doesn't remember that happened that night like someone rolling on the floor etc. She's been crying and pleading with me not to leave her as she needs me and I'm the best thing that has happened to her. She doesn't find the guy attractive or anything on those lines. I'm sure they didn't use a condom either, don't think he'll be carrying one around and would use one when he's drunk and high as well. So i had to tell her to get the morning after-pill and now have to wait 2 weeks to get an STD test to make sure she hasn't caught anything from him. She has been begging me over and over again that she would never do this while sober and she knows, she takes responsibility for believing that this time she would not get carried away, that she feels disgusting and ashamed of this and how she honestly thought she was raped....
I'm lost, I feel betrayed, I'm horrified thinking about how it happened and what else she did and if she was the one to initiate this how she did it. I have been very nasty towards her for the past few days and i've told her that she will never see me again after what she has done. I'm sorry for being graphic in this next part but I feel like an idiot for taking someone back that guys just seem to use like a **** once in a while.
She's accepting that simple psychotherapy isnt enough and shes going to go to AA meeting and still asking for me to stay in her life and as she needs me both as a friend, a lover and someone to come home to.
Sorry for my life story, but any advice, similar experiences or anything will help. I can't this off my mind and in a way i feel selfish for making this about me because deep down I know she feels absolutely terrible but on the surface I just want to call her all kinds of names. I feel that i've been cheated in a manner that isn't fair, that the guy had a great night and I can't even be with her because we have to wait 2 weeks for std tests. I'm considering making sure his wife finds out about this but it would screw things up at work for my flatmate and no one seems to know about this "incident"
I have a flatmate that I started seeing around a year ago on casual basis. She's 28. She had a very bad drinking problem then and realistically still does. Whenever she'd get drunk she'd do cocaine, wake up drink more wine and go to work. As things progressed I did my best to help her stop because she didn't see a problem with any of that or at least so she said but I knew she was simply lying to herself. She has had trauma in the past, screwed up child-hood, being taken advantage of in her 20s, going to parties blacking out and finding someone "there" behind her. She's also had abuse from people in her recent past that she always defended even with the ****** up things they did to her. In some worst case scenarios she calls the same person to console her but has realised they're just not good for her
A few days ago she got very very drunk at work, took cocaine and ended up having sex over a toilet with her co-worker. The next day after this we were supposed to go shop together and when I saw her I could see she was having the worst hangover of her life and I got upset that she was drinking again and she fully well knows her "1-2" drinks never ends well because she can't stop. She left early during the day later telling that she just had to be alone. After I asked her questions she told me she thinks she had sex with someone after closing at work but literally remembers nothing apart from waking up on her knees and being ****** from the back and just letting it happen. There were a lot of people as it was work drinks. It took a lot of convincing to do something about it and get to the bottom of it. The guy denied everything and said has no idea what happened, that he lost control and that she should just let it go as everyone had a good night, he's married. We both genuinely thought it was rape although she questioned it and wasn't sure if she instigated this during her drunken state. We thought she went to puke in the bathroom and someone followed her in...
I took her to view the cctv footage and she seemed fine the whole night, it would've been hard to tell that she was actually drunk. The thing is the video shows how him and her are casually talking and going into the bathroom together, to do some more cocaine i presume and not to ****.
Her hands were shaking and she looked mortified as she was showing this to me. They walked out together out of the bathroom, and she doesn't remember the other 2-3 hours until him, her and another cooworker got in an uber and everyone went their homes.
She doesn't remember anything and says that watching those videos is like watching someone else. There are a lot of other things which she doesn't remember that happened that night like someone rolling on the floor etc. She's been crying and pleading with me not to leave her as she needs me and I'm the best thing that has happened to her. She doesn't find the guy attractive or anything on those lines. I'm sure they didn't use a condom either, don't think he'll be carrying one around and would use one when he's drunk and high as well. So i had to tell her to get the morning after-pill and now have to wait 2 weeks to get an STD test to make sure she hasn't caught anything from him. She has been begging me over and over again that she would never do this while sober and she knows, she takes responsibility for believing that this time she would not get carried away, that she feels disgusting and ashamed of this and how she honestly thought she was raped....
I'm lost, I feel betrayed, I'm horrified thinking about how it happened and what else she did and if she was the one to initiate this how she did it. I have been very nasty towards her for the past few days and i've told her that she will never see me again after what she has done. I'm sorry for being graphic in this next part but I feel like an idiot for taking someone back that guys just seem to use like a **** once in a while.
She's accepting that simple psychotherapy isnt enough and shes going to go to AA meeting and still asking for me to stay in her life and as she needs me both as a friend, a lover and someone to come home to.
Sorry for my life story, but any advice, similar experiences or anything will help. I can't this off my mind and in a way i feel selfish for making this about me because deep down I know she feels absolutely terrible but on the surface I just want to call her all kinds of names. I feel that i've been cheated in a manner that isn't fair, that the guy had a great night and I can't even be with her because we have to wait 2 weeks for std tests. I'm considering making sure his wife finds out about this but it would screw things up at work for my flatmate and no one seems to know about this "incident"
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I think it's natural for you to feel angry about this and want to lash out. Whether you do or not is up to you, but in my experience, it will only serve to exacerbate an already dramatic and unpleasant situation.
Your friend is an addict and while it's great that she's talking about AA while going to therapy, it's not great that she's claiming she "needs" you in order to recover. It sounds like manipulation to get you to stick around long enough for this to blow over and for things to get back to "normal." Rinse, repeat.
In the meantime, if what you're looking for is a casual relationship, I'm not sure you could have picked a worse partner than an alcoholic you also live with. That goes way beyond this incident at the work party. She doesn't need a lover right now, she needs a friend. If you can't be that for her, it's kinder to just let this go. And I understand that you might not be inclined towards kindness right now, but I think that however bad you feel about what happened, she feels a hundred times worse. It happened to her, after all, and not you. She has a lot of things to figure out in her life, a lot of demons to confront. She will either embark on that journey or she won't, and that choice won't have anything to do with anything you do or don't do.
Your friend is an addict and while it's great that she's talking about AA while going to therapy, it's not great that she's claiming she "needs" you in order to recover. It sounds like manipulation to get you to stick around long enough for this to blow over and for things to get back to "normal." Rinse, repeat.
In the meantime, if what you're looking for is a casual relationship, I'm not sure you could have picked a worse partner than an alcoholic you also live with. That goes way beyond this incident at the work party. She doesn't need a lover right now, she needs a friend. If you can't be that for her, it's kinder to just let this go. And I understand that you might not be inclined towards kindness right now, but I think that however bad you feel about what happened, she feels a hundred times worse. It happened to her, after all, and not you. She has a lot of things to figure out in her life, a lot of demons to confront. She will either embark on that journey or she won't, and that choice won't have anything to do with anything you do or don't do.
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Originally Posted by Mayson111 
Hi everyone,...but any advice,
Yes, I have some advice. Save yourself.
Your friend might be legally an adult, but there's no self-respect or integrity there, which, to me, is just one part of the definition of being an adult. She's out of control - BY CHOICE. No one is forcing her to get drunk and high on coke. If she doesn't want control, if she doesn't want to learn how to control - herself - she's never going to change. No one can want or do that for her.
I don't think you can be just her friend, based on what you wrote. I've discovered the hard way that lovers aren't usually able to revert to just friendship. Removing the intimacy is easy because that's something external, but reverting the emotional (something internal) attachment back to non-attachment status is extremely challenging for most people. I'm not saying it's impossible, just improbable.
While she would probably benefit greatly from devoting her entire waking life to sobriety and recovery, to learning who she really is without drugs and alcohol, you might benefit from a little self-discovery too. For instance - what is your attraction to someone with such monumental issues in the first place? Is she filling a need to be needed?
I don't know that you're going to be able to look at her and her situation objectively as long as you continue living together. She doesn't need you and you don't need her. She needs to focus on getting healthy and you need to focus on creating healthy boundaries.
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Join Date: Nov 2016
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Originally Posted by Mayson111
I have been very nasty towards her for the past few days and i've told her that she will never see me again after what she has done.
I can't this off my mind and in a way i feel selfish for making this about me because deep down I know she feels absolutely terrible but on the surface I just want to call her all kinds of names. I feel that i've been cheated in a manner that isn't fair, that the guy had a great night and I can't even be with her because we have to wait 2 weeks for std tests. I'm considering making sure his wife finds out about this but it would screw things up at work for my flatmate and no one seems to know about this "incident"
I feel that i've been cheated in a manner that isn't fair, that the guy had a great night and I can't even be with her because we have to wait 2 weeks for std tests.
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Join Date: Oct 2020
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Thanks for the replies everyone and reading the long post.
I'm trying to look at this from an objective stand point where she's a person who's lived a screwed up life and ended up meeting the wrong people and ending up in bad situation and it's just a cruel circle. I take personal responsibility for whatever I do and i've told her she chooses to drink, same way she chose to have one drink that night even though every time it has ended in some disaster. She accepts that she deludes herself that the next time will be different and that it's just an excuse for her to drink.
The reason she initially stopped drinking is because I gave her an ultimatum of it's either keep killing yourself with alcohol, cocaine and fake friends who want to use you be it for money or anything else or it's spending time with me, going to the cinema, playing games etc. She did stop although I take responsibility for screwing that up as I wasn't honest with her about regarding my personal relationship. She's always said that I am who she wants and all the things i give her. I did tell her that the constant "i need you" is an attempt at trying to keep me so I don't leave and move out. Although she says that it's not that at all and she needs me to push her to recover and get help as she wants me to be proud of her and see her do well. I mean hell, even when I said im going to see other people and move out, she told me about her idea that we would get a 2 bed flat. I can do what I want with who I want and she can see people if she does want to as well (which she really doesn't btw, i know she just wants me), but then she has someone safe to come home to and spend time with
It took her case worker/friend person (not sure what the official title is) months of convincing for her to get psychotherapy and get to the bottom of her issues. I know she ignores things from the past and they just end up coming back out and hurting her and me in the process because as I explained to her she needs to accept, understand and move on from all that pain rather than simply trying not to feel it.
Regarding why I'm attracted to someone with issues....That's a great question! I think I'm a little messed up myself to be honest and it seems like i can help this person. To be fair I have a track record of dating women with past trauma and other issues. I like having someone with me but at the same time I don't seek approval from others and I am very happy being on my own as well. I've always had that care taker role in life, taking the lead and making decisions, without going into detail I think it comes from kink (Dom, dd/lg) or the other way around. I want to get therapy for relationships myself
She tried to delay the AA and treatment for alcoholism by saying she will start by going to this creative writing thing where people just talk openly and write and that with work she won't have time for anything else. After telling her she's yet again delaying it and its not good enough, she agreed to go first thing in the morning. I believe that she's scared of her past and doesn't want to confront it along with the fact that her mom (deceased) messed her up and at the same time she's scared of any changes and of the future, so she just sticks to what she knows. She had experiences with guys in the past one of the stories involving 4 guys which i honestly didn't want to know about, but it's the whole thing of an innocent girl being around all that and basically being told by people that it's the way it should be and this is fun so is taking drugs, drinking and being with random guys. She does admit her whole thing is for self-destruction because of all that. Although now she's realised how much she's been hurting me as well
I'm trying to look at this from an objective stand point where she's a person who's lived a screwed up life and ended up meeting the wrong people and ending up in bad situation and it's just a cruel circle. I take personal responsibility for whatever I do and i've told her she chooses to drink, same way she chose to have one drink that night even though every time it has ended in some disaster. She accepts that she deludes herself that the next time will be different and that it's just an excuse for her to drink.
The reason she initially stopped drinking is because I gave her an ultimatum of it's either keep killing yourself with alcohol, cocaine and fake friends who want to use you be it for money or anything else or it's spending time with me, going to the cinema, playing games etc. She did stop although I take responsibility for screwing that up as I wasn't honest with her about regarding my personal relationship. She's always said that I am who she wants and all the things i give her. I did tell her that the constant "i need you" is an attempt at trying to keep me so I don't leave and move out. Although she says that it's not that at all and she needs me to push her to recover and get help as she wants me to be proud of her and see her do well. I mean hell, even when I said im going to see other people and move out, she told me about her idea that we would get a 2 bed flat. I can do what I want with who I want and she can see people if she does want to as well (which she really doesn't btw, i know she just wants me), but then she has someone safe to come home to and spend time with
It took her case worker/friend person (not sure what the official title is) months of convincing for her to get psychotherapy and get to the bottom of her issues. I know she ignores things from the past and they just end up coming back out and hurting her and me in the process because as I explained to her she needs to accept, understand and move on from all that pain rather than simply trying not to feel it.
Regarding why I'm attracted to someone with issues....That's a great question! I think I'm a little messed up myself to be honest and it seems like i can help this person. To be fair I have a track record of dating women with past trauma and other issues. I like having someone with me but at the same time I don't seek approval from others and I am very happy being on my own as well. I've always had that care taker role in life, taking the lead and making decisions, without going into detail I think it comes from kink (Dom, dd/lg) or the other way around. I want to get therapy for relationships myself
She tried to delay the AA and treatment for alcoholism by saying she will start by going to this creative writing thing where people just talk openly and write and that with work she won't have time for anything else. After telling her she's yet again delaying it and its not good enough, she agreed to go first thing in the morning. I believe that she's scared of her past and doesn't want to confront it along with the fact that her mom (deceased) messed her up and at the same time she's scared of any changes and of the future, so she just sticks to what she knows. She had experiences with guys in the past one of the stories involving 4 guys which i honestly didn't want to know about, but it's the whole thing of an innocent girl being around all that and basically being told by people that it's the way it should be and this is fun so is taking drugs, drinking and being with random guys. She does admit her whole thing is for self-destruction because of all that. Although now she's realised how much she's been hurting me as well
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Join Date: Nov 2016
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You didn't Cause it, can't Control it and can't Cure it (the 3 c's).
Addiction is complicated, it's not as simple as making a choice between drinking or not drinking (well it is technically). Your gf? obviously uses drugs for a variety of reasons and that's complicated. Her recovering - or not from this depends on her and only her.
I'm sure you have shamed her, told her off, gave her an ultimatum (how did that go?) and yet she is using coke and alcohol to the point of blackout.
I would really (really) recommend two things. First, getting help for yourself. You are hurting, you said so and yet you seem pretty firm in your need to try and "fix" her. Secondly, start learning about addiction, knowledge is power (for you, not to fix her, that's her job).
You might find these articles helpful:
Addiction, Lies and Relationships
Also the stickies in the Classic Reading section, found at the top of this forum:
https://www.soberrecovery.com/forums...c-reading.html (Classic Reading)
Addiction is complicated, it's not as simple as making a choice between drinking or not drinking (well it is technically). Your gf? obviously uses drugs for a variety of reasons and that's complicated. Her recovering - or not from this depends on her and only her.
I'm sure you have shamed her, told her off, gave her an ultimatum (how did that go?) and yet she is using coke and alcohol to the point of blackout.
I would really (really) recommend two things. First, getting help for yourself. You are hurting, you said so and yet you seem pretty firm in your need to try and "fix" her. Secondly, start learning about addiction, knowledge is power (for you, not to fix her, that's her job).
You might find these articles helpful:
Addiction, Lies and Relationships
Also the stickies in the Classic Reading section, found at the top of this forum:
https://www.soberrecovery.com/forums...c-reading.html (Classic Reading)
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 583
Mayson
Casual relationship and she is deep into her addiction.
A) Casual - You should know what that means.
B) Drinking - NO amount of being mad, conversations, telling her to x,y,z will help her.
C) Why - WHY in the heck would you want to be with this person unless you want to fix or use her. Casual = Use. Fix=Control *tell her not to drink, day after pill etc..
AG
Casual relationship and she is deep into her addiction.
A) Casual - You should know what that means.
B) Drinking - NO amount of being mad, conversations, telling her to x,y,z will help her.
C) Why - WHY in the heck would you want to be with this person unless you want to fix or use her. Casual = Use. Fix=Control *tell her not to drink, day after pill etc..
AG
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1) If what she assumes happened, happened, she was raped.
2) You admit not being honest with her about YOUR relationships
3) You have a 'casual relationship' with a woman you live with, make no promises to her, nor do you in any way codify your relationship, then get all up on your hind legs when the possibility of sex with someone else comes up.
In all honesty, this falls under the category of "a lot of nerve."
2) You admit not being honest with her about YOUR relationships
3) You have a 'casual relationship' with a woman you live with, make no promises to her, nor do you in any way codify your relationship, then get all up on your hind legs when the possibility of sex with someone else comes up.
In all honesty, this falls under the category of "a lot of nerve."
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Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 11,429
It sounds like both of your "broken" parts are not adding up to a healthy relationship.
When a relationship is this toxic this early on, it might be best to end it and work on your issues and wish her well.
Shaming, hurting, feeling used, etc. isn't what love looks like--
When a relationship is this toxic this early on, it might be best to end it and work on your issues and wish her well.
Shaming, hurting, feeling used, etc. isn't what love looks like--
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Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Western US
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Hey Mayson, so very glad you found us and so sorry for what brings you here.
Like the others I urge you to educate yourself about addiction and folks like us (sounds like you are indeed one of us) who get into relationships with addicts. That you can see that you have a bit of a pattern here is huge - kudos for that.
The more you can disengage with your girlfriend (we call these people our qualifiers) and focus on yourself, the better. There is nothing you can do to help her . . . . hmmm . . . .I actually think getting out of her way and letting her figure it out herself (or not) is huge.
Please let us know how you get on. This type of situation is beyond difficult for anyone.
Like the others I urge you to educate yourself about addiction and folks like us (sounds like you are indeed one of us) who get into relationships with addicts. That you can see that you have a bit of a pattern here is huge - kudos for that.
The more you can disengage with your girlfriend (we call these people our qualifiers) and focus on yourself, the better. There is nothing you can do to help her . . . . hmmm . . . .I actually think getting out of her way and letting her figure it out herself (or not) is huge.
Please let us know how you get on. This type of situation is beyond difficult for anyone.
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Again, thanks for all the replies and those who provide words of encouragement as well as for consoling.
We had a chat, a very long one. She has denied all this in the past and slowly started to stop lying to herself that this isn't the life she wants. She has come to terms with that even though she knows and wants she has to stop drinking, there will be some trigger that will make her excuse it. And this time she accepted that she can't do this on her own because the need for alcohol is strong. She's seeing her old key/case worker and has already contacted the local drug/alcohol addiction Centre and will be going to meeting with other people of similar (and much worse) history/present addictions.
From everyone's advice I was able to have a clear conversation where I tried to break things down for her without my own personal input. I'm no therapist but I can connect the dots and see why the same thing didn't work out etc and how to change that.
As for me, I already have a relationship therapy session booked in for this upcoming week and will take it from there!
We had a chat, a very long one. She has denied all this in the past and slowly started to stop lying to herself that this isn't the life she wants. She has come to terms with that even though she knows and wants she has to stop drinking, there will be some trigger that will make her excuse it. And this time she accepted that she can't do this on her own because the need for alcohol is strong. She's seeing her old key/case worker and has already contacted the local drug/alcohol addiction Centre and will be going to meeting with other people of similar (and much worse) history/present addictions.
From everyone's advice I was able to have a clear conversation where I tried to break things down for her without my own personal input. I'm no therapist but I can connect the dots and see why the same thing didn't work out etc and how to change that.
As for me, I already have a relationship therapy session booked in for this upcoming week and will take it from there!
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Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Western US
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Originally Posted by Mayson111
As for me, I already have a relationship therapy session booked in for this upcoming week and will take it from there!
Alcoholics/addicts do need help; however the help they need is from other addicts and professionals. When we (codependents) step back, it makes room for the ones that really can provide support to step forward.
Mayson, you might look into the book Codependent No More and Alanon groups. The groups are probably all meeting on line at this point but may still be helpful for you. The book was written by a woman and Alanon groups can be dominated by women. I do think it makes it tougher for guys to relate to what is being said. There are men involved though and our very own monitor, Desert Eyes is of the male persuasion and found help with Alanon.
Courage and healing to you.
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