Never sure how to react

Old 09-13-2020, 04:22 PM
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Never sure how to react

I’ve posted before about my AH (whom I suspect has an alcohol problem). He doesn’t get drunk every day - or often at all. He’s not violent.

but he’s hidden wine in the house. He’s drunk a whole six pack of beer in his car before driving home. It affects his behavior and moods. Mostly, he seems to use it to deal with stress, always thinking it will calm him when, in reality, it ramps him up.

Thursday, he went to his son’s baseball practice, then was picking up dinner. We texted some back and forth and all seemed fine. But he texted asking me to have a pen and paper ready. OK.

He got home and I could tell he was off. Wrote a letter, then went upstairs to use the bathroom. It was a note saying he’d had a beer while waiting for the food and wanted me to keep his wallet and keys and, if I felt threatened or uncomfortable at any point, I should leave.

I really didn’t know what to do. He asked if I was mad. I was disappointed and I didn’t like that he drove. That annoyed him because the restaurant is very close and he felt fine. I could tell he was not “normal” though.

Then he talked about how he tried to do the right thing and still “got in trouble.”

I felt annoyed with all this and saw it as the denial/justification/manipulation it was. But I also knew that while he’s under the influence is not the time to have a talk about how I feel.

Today there was another practice. He texted me and told me to go ahead with our afternoon plan (going to an open house) because the coaches decided to do a 5-inning skirmish. I went. Was gone less than an hour and I came home to find my stepson freshly showered and could hear AH upstairs getting cleaned up.

When he came down, he was again “off.”

I suspect there was no skirmish. That he’s hiding something upstairs.

I just don’t know how to handle things like this. He gets defensive or denies things and pushing only makes it worse.
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Old 09-13-2020, 05:58 PM
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Hi,

This is one small piece you wrote "I’ve posted before about my AH (whom I suspect has an alcohol problem). He doesn’t get drunk every day - or often at all. He’s not violent. ... but he’s hidden wine in the house."

Making excuses for him is not wise. The idea to hide alcohol never crosses the mind of a normal drinker. To them - that'd be like hiding the aluminum foil.

Us alcoholics like to hide our alcohol for two reasons - so that we know where to find some when we want it and so that no one gets their grubby hands on it and moves it. That's it.

Active alcoholics cannot be reasoned with or be expected to behave or communicate logically. We are defensive, we lie, we sneak, some of us steal, and we're moody as hell. We are in a relationship with our drinking and alcohol. Everything and everyone else takes a back seat.

Sorry, but that's just how we are.

It looks to me like it's time to toss all the evidence out on the metaphorical table and shine the light on it. This is a serious issue that is not going to just dissolve and go away. It's most likely going to get worse. Us alcoholics don't go UPhill when we're drinking. We go downhill.
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Old 09-13-2020, 07:13 PM
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I say trust your gut. You know when things are off. As LumenandNyx rightly pointed out, normal drinkers don't hide their booze. So you needn't waste one more bit of precious energy trying to work out what's up. You know what's up.

Sadly, that doesn't change the fact that you have no power or control over him and his choices, only of you and your own. With the note and the concession that you should leave if you feel threatened or uncomfortable -- that's just plain manipulation. He wanted to drink guilt-free, and he decided the person who could give him that was you. You don't need his permission to leave if you feel uncomfortable or threatened! It's pretty presumptuous of him to think he needs to grant you that. When you didn't respond in the way he wanted, he turned on you, and tried to make his bad feelings all your fault. This is someone who is not currently capable of taking responsibility for himself--that doesn't mean you need to do it for him.

The question right now isn't really what do you do about him. It's what do you do about you. Is this the life you want?
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Old 09-13-2020, 09:07 PM
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I really appreciate your insight and I know you’re right.

Tonight, he asked me “can you just stop accusing me of drinking or having alcohol in the house?” I told him I know he’s had it hidden here. It was here a month ago. He admitted to it, but also gave me the “go look. Go search if you want.” Manipulation, lying.

Anyway, yes, I need to remember it’s not up to me to change him. I can’t. But I have to decide what I need to do and what’s right for me.

I just get so turned around and self-conscious. Am I overreacting? Am I being too hard on him? At heart, I feel like I’m not. That there’s not a rational, reasonable reason for this. He’s very good at turning things around on me. But I get the impression that’s not an uncommon thing.
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Old 09-13-2020, 11:40 PM
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Stany-----yes, it is very, very common. It is called deflection---to turn the spotlight onto someone else in order to take it off of themselves and their drinking, And, it works pretty well---as it often turns the loved one into a tailspin of confusion. The loved one often wants to deal with logic and facts and the truth----not realizing that alcoholism is not "logical". It is a strong compulsion and a physical dependency that
the alcoholic doesn't even understand. It is a powerful force inside the alcoholic and denial it the refence that allows the alcoholic to hold onto their ability to drink. The idea of never drinking, again, is like telling a goldfish to give up water. It feels unthinkable.
The denial is so strong---I have seen an alcoholic holding the drink in their hand and raising it to their lips--all the while denying that they are drinking,
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Old 09-14-2020, 07:25 AM
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Very scary stuff.

I’m sure the big struggle for me is related to the issue of reason. I’m a very “thinking” person. I like to reason things out. I think rationally. So dealing with these things with him, where rational thought had no place, is confounding.

But he’s very good. He can sound rational when he’s turning it around on me. He can sound reasonable when he’s making demands or deflecting. It’s only later I can really see it for what it is.

The fact that I know he lies about some things makes me question everything — which leads to more insecurity and bad behavior on his part. Whether the alcohol is a physical or emotional crutch or both, I’m constantly on hyper-alert for signs that he’s been drinking or there’s some hidden. Any time he leaves the house (or I do), I feel anxious because chances are there will be an episode after.

He has cried and told me he has a problem before. But then days later he’ll go back to insisting there’s nothing wrong with it, it doesn’t affect him and he should be able to have a glass every now and then without having to hide it.
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Old 09-14-2020, 08:13 AM
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You feel that way because he's gaslighting you. Recognizing this behavior is key to resisting its effects, but it's designed to wear you down.

Sometimes what we really need is physical and mental space (time and distance) to gain perspective. It's really hard to see the big picture when you are battling on a bunch of different tiny fronts.
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Old 09-14-2020, 08:36 AM
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Stany,

Your situation is much like the one I had with my husband. I learned a lot the hard way. Alcoholics lie. Period. When I thought my husband was "off" he was in fact plastered.

I was extremely naive. I never in a million years thought that a human could consume as much alcohol as he did and I never thought that lying would be as common as breathing for him.

I lived in pure insanity. We divorced and over a decade later he is out of money, often hospitalized or in jail. I had to block him from all communication after he sent me a vulgar text. And all this from a man who once operated a nuclear reactor.

I'm a very thinking person also and I am thankful every day that I finally figured out that the only way for me to survive was to be away from the madness.
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Old 09-14-2020, 08:48 AM
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Good advice. It really does feel like fighting lots of battles on different fronts.

There’s his work and the fall-out from his termination.
There are his problems with my family.
Issues with his son (any hiccup or technical difficulty with school can set him off).

Sometimes I do wish I had an escape.
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Old 09-14-2020, 08:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Stany View Post
There’s his work and the fall-out from his termination.
There are his problems with my family.
Issues with his son (any hiccup or technical difficulty with school can set him off).
All of these things are manageable, even taken all at once, with patience and care. It's his addiction that is making all of them unmanageable. It's choosing to deal with stress not by working towards solutions to these problems, but by escaping into the oblivion of booze. That's a choice he is making, while deflecting his guilt onto you and causing deterioration in your relationship.

The "fronts" I was referring to are these circular, blaming conversations he has with you that make you question whether you are over-reacting. We can't have perspective when we are knee-deep in the problem. Finding a way to detach from these conversations, to avoid getting embroiled in them as if he were being logical is crucial to your state of mind right now.
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Old 09-14-2020, 09:09 AM
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Ah, I got it.

That’s something I’ve been working on with little success — how to exit the circular, accusatory conversations. When I try, he follows.

We have a couple of “safe words” for taking a break or exiting conversations entirely but he doesn’t respect them. He either just follows me or pulls me back in (again, acting reasonable). I’m ashamed to say I’ve let him. What I need to work on is standing my ground and just refusing to participate. Obviously a work in progress.
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Old 09-14-2020, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Stany View Post
Ah, I got it.

That’s something I’ve been working on with little success — how to exit the circular, accusatory conversations. When I try, he follows.

We have a couple of “safe words” for taking a break or exiting conversations entirely but he doesn’t respect them. He either just follows me or pulls me back in (again, acting reasonable). I’m ashamed to say I’ve let him. What I need to work on is standing my ground and just refusing to participate. Obviously a work in progress.
I think what compounds it is something you eluded to (which is gaslighting really). It's hard to switch your thinking. Your day is going along, you are speaking to people who just - speak normally, they aren't lying to you, might be a friend or family member, might be at work.

Next thing you know you have someone giving you a note to confess to drinking and giving you instructions on what to do if you feel threatened. It is never easy to jump from one to the other! Keep in mind though that you cannot apply "normal" reactions and "normal" logic to this, it just doesn't apply, it's not logical. I know you know this already, the question is, when he won't stick to your no-discussions while drunk policy, how can you handle it?

Well you have an agreement and while he might not stick to it, you certainly can. You can put a lock on your bedroom door for instance and leave. You can stay where you are and make non-committal answers (google grey rock) like 'uh-huh', 'that's interesting' or 'you might be right'.

Always remember the 3 c's - You didn't Cause it, can't Control it and can't Cure it.

Relationships that are healthy don't require drinking confessions in writing or safe words. It's easy to be sucked in to thinking that all of this is normal because it becomes your way of life.

It doesn't have to be. While he is unwilling at this time to seek help for this, that doesn't stop you from stepping away (temporarily or permanently).

You may want to start formulating a plan now. Alcoholism is progressive, this may be the best of times right now.




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Old 09-14-2020, 11:36 AM
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The behavior you describe is, at best, total disrespect for your boundaries as a human being, much less as his presumed life partner. At worst, it's abuse.

I am with trailmix on having a plan. You won't be able to logic him into better behavior. It's time to start looking out for your own best interests.
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Old 09-15-2020, 06:54 AM
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I appreciate everyone’s advice and perspectives. It really helps sometimes to hear from people in the know but “outside.” You’re all right. It’s easy for the abnormal and unhealthy to become normalized. As a person, I tend to adapt easily. That can be an asset. But in situations like this, it ultimately works against me.
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Old 09-15-2020, 07:27 AM
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Stany------one method of detaching from the krazy circular arguments is to not JADE (unless you want to).
J---justify yourself
A----argue
D---defend yourself
E---explain yourself.

This is a way to spare you the effort of dealing with every ridiculous thing that comes out of his mouth.
We say that you don't have to attend every argument that you are "invited" to---lol.

This is about boundaries---boundaries to protect yourself. Just because he is not ready or willing to deal with his alcoholism doesn't mean that you don't have the right/need to protect yourself from it.

At this point, it is about your own survival---your future--your overall well being, If you don't take care of yourself, you can't look to a practicing alcoholic who is deep into denial to do so, It is all an alcoholic can do is to deal with what is going on inside their own head, 24/7. He isn't deliberately doing this to hurt you---it isn't about you, really. It is what alcoholics do. You simply become the collateral damage.

Detaching, as we tend to use the word on this forum---is a technique to buy you a little space and time to be able to think and catch your breath. It is a temporary technique (unless, of course, it is made permanent by leaving the relationship). It can be a very useful tool in the immediate situation.
A hammer is a wonderful and necessary tool---but, one can't build a whole house with just a hammer.
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Old 09-15-2020, 08:51 AM
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Oh, I’m very much aware of JADE and have been working on that for some time. I’ve made some progress but I can still fall into the trap. I’ve gotten some clarity the last week or so — seeing in the moment that I’m falling for the manipulation or taking the bait. It makes me disappointed in myself, but also empowered. There’s something else I can do. A way I can improve.
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Old 09-15-2020, 05:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Stany View Post
he’ll go back to insisting there’s nothing wrong with it, it doesn’t affect him and he should be able to have a glass every now and then without having to hide it.
Current Man has a drink every now and then without hiding it. He probably has six drinks a year.
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Old 09-16-2020, 05:44 AM
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AH used to have a glass of wine or two most nights. No noticeable effect on his mood if behavior. I had no problem with it because it never seemed like he was relying on it. That’s changed in the last year.
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Old 09-16-2020, 06:01 AM
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It is progressive. If he doesn’t take steps to stop for good ( moderation is a myth and is not an option) you can assume this is as good as it gets as he continues the slide downward. However, things aren’t gradual or predictable. The stage of being “functional “ can end quickly as the cognitive damage increases.

From what you’re describing, do you think this may be happening / accelerating now?
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Old 09-16-2020, 08:14 AM
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It’s hard to say. Because I don’t necessarily know when he’s drinking, I can’t tell when or how much it’s affecting him. He has problems with anger and emotional regulation. Is it alcohol? A personality disorder? A combination? It’s hard to tell. But there’s a possibility that, sometimes, his “episodes” aren’t chemically enhanced. I can suspect but can’t know.

I was wrong in my guess that he lied about the baseball scrimmage the other day. Could there still have been drinking involved? Absolutely, especially considering the huge change in mood from before he left and after I got back.

I do know there’s a problem with drinking just based on the drinking and driving, the hiding/lying, the defensiveness and deflection. But I can’t quite determine if there’s escalation going on.
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