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Stopping a slip becoming a relapse

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Old 09-01-2020, 01:05 AM
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Stopping a slip becoming a relapse

Why is it so hard for a slip not to turn into a full blown relapse with weeks or months of destructive drinking? I suppose if we could slip occasionally then we wouldn't be addicts??

I can see so clearly that my life before the last few days of drinking was so much better but I'm really struggling to get back on the wagon and commit.
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Old 09-01-2020, 01:19 AM
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Why is it so hard for a slip not to turn into a full blown relapse with weeks or months of destructive drinking?
We are alcoholics and will tell ourselves, eff it, the damage is done and "one" more day won't hurt/matter.

I can see so clearly that my life before the last few days of drinking was so much better but I'm really struggling to get back on the wagon and commit.
For me, not drinking is sooo much nicer and easier then drinking. I didn't commit until I wanted to be sober more then drunk then it's a mental thing to not drink now.

HTH
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Old 09-01-2020, 01:38 AM
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For me, each Day One became more and more painful, and whenever I get an urge to drink I go back into the memory bank of them and how awful it feels. Also think about the times when I thought I would only have a couple drinks and ended up on the brink of dying.

I guess what I am trying to say is that when we slip we have relapsed, in that we could not drink safely. My last few slips were reality checks for how the addicted brain works.
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Old 09-01-2020, 02:29 AM
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I think it is possible to stop, if you're prepared for what will be a hard day dedicating yourself to not drinking or buying more booze.
Start making a list of things you could do today to ensure you end the day sober.

Support, like the support here helps too

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Old 09-01-2020, 03:50 AM
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I don't see any difference between a slip and a relapse. I suppose it's possible to argue that they are different in degree, but they are still the same thing and the results of the same errors of thought. Thinking a slip is a minor event is like thinking you can drink like a normie, and alcoholics must crush that fantasy. Normies don't slip; They just enjoy an occasional drink. Alcoholics are not able to drink like a normie and enjoy an occasional drink. Alcoholics who want to recover cannot behave like a normie, and they will never be a normie. Slipping and relapse are both about not quitting.
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Old 09-01-2020, 05:42 AM
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Unfortunately, this is the nature of the beast...at least for me. Everything you have stated could have come from myself. I got sober first time for a period of time in 1990. Have periodically lapsed for years despite working not to do so. My last drink was about 4.5 years ago and that was a two day stint after two years or so sober. I have not thought about drinking but a couple of times in all this time and then it was just nonsense. That for me was/is the mental change. Drinking is just nonsense. Somehow this has appropriately become a part of my core. If we think about it, that pretty much describes the sum total if you are like me. The world is full of wonderful things to do. I am getting to those things and the drinking thing is what it is, just nonsense. Wish I could tell you how my mindset changed, but I am really not sure. Guess it was just the sum total of everything I have ever done and what was done to me. Wish you the best.
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Old 09-01-2020, 05:44 AM
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I also think a slip and a relapse are the same thing. To me, even if I "slip" it means I have relapsed into thinking there is still something I can get out of drinking alcohol that would be of benefit.
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Old 09-01-2020, 07:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Flowing View Post
Why is it so hard for a slip not to turn into a full blown relapse with weeks or months of destructive drinking? I suppose if we could slip occasionally then we wouldn't be addicts??

I can see so clearly that my life before the last few days of drinking was so much better but I'm really struggling to get back on the wagon and commit.
Hi Flowing!

I slipped/relapsed/whatever you want to call it after 476 days. I had a VERY LARGE glass of gin (which I won't even bother to flower up by calling a dry martini, because a cup of gin/poison is what it is). I was then FREAKED OUT that all my hard work was going to be erased.

I truly believe (IN MY OPINION) AA thinking, which has been morphed into society's way of thinking about addicts for sooooo long, is now doing way more harm than good for a lot of people (not everyone!). But, for people like me. The whole "we are powerless over alcohol". No, you are NOT. I think AA used to serve a very, very necessary purpose when we did not yet know the science about addiction. Now we do. If we understand that what we are feeling (craving/urges) aren't coming from the real you but from an almost barbaric you, the animal you, not the rational you, then we can ignore those craving/urges, knowing that they will dim down in time. RECOGNIZE you are NOT your thoughts/cravings/urges. And recognize your power, your values, your goals. Don't listen to howls of the animal you.

So, I messed up. And I drank a glass of gin. And I haven't had one since (it's been a week). But I found it SO triggering to read people tell me that slipping caused them to spiral into deep alcoholism again and that we need to figure out what "it" is that made me do such a thing. I've had that message slammed into me for so long (DANGER: YOUR LIFE IS OVER IF YOU RELAPSE!) that I started to believe it. Hell no, it doesn't have to be. I just slipped. No biggie. If a mountain climber slips once it doesn't mean he should quit climbing. And, it appears you've been relapsed for a bit. That's okay. You were weak for a bit. A professional mountain climber gets sick and weak at times, too. But he RECOVERS and starts climbing again. So, START RECOVERING. This is by stopping drinking! If you're reading this, you didn't fall off the cliff or anything. So, well done. You're already in a good place, then.

PLEASE read this. By believing you're "stuck" now, trapped back in addiction, you WILL THEN BE TRAPPED. So, BELIEVE you are POWERFUL. Because you are. STOP TODAY; you'll feel like you're going through hell for a bit, then the sun will come out again. YOU CAN DO THIS. You DO have the power. If you don't believe that, you'll keep drinking. Your life depends on it recognizing your power. You CAN just stop. Trust me. I just did it.

Addiction as a Self Fulfilling Prophecy

Importance of Positive Thinking

Humans can be influenced by what other people think of them. Their behavior can also be impacted by an individual’s own beliefs about themselves. If the individual predicts that they are going to fail at some endeavor then this will increase the likelihood of such a failure occurring. This is why positive thinking is viewed as important for those who want to achieve anything in life. It is particularly important that those individuals who hope to escape an addiction hold an optimistic view of their chances of being successful.

Self Fulfilling Prophecy Defined

A self fulfilling prophecy can be defined as a type of prediction that causes the event to being predicted to occur. In other words the act of making the prediction changes the individual’s behavior in such a way that it causes the event to occur. This means that if the prediction had not been made then the event might not have even occurred. It is possible for these prophecies to have negative or positive results.

A self fulfilling prophecy can be made by other people or the individual themselves. If people assume things about a person it will impact their interactions with that person. The classic example of this is the teacher who predicts that one of their students is not going to do well in school. The teacher’s interactions with this student can cause that individual to believe that they are stupid – even if in reality they are the most intelligent person in the classroom. As a result of this the student begins to perform badly thus confirming the teacher’s original prophecy.

The individual can also create self fulfilling prophecies that impact their own life. For instance, if they predict that they are going to fail at some task it will change their behavior and make failure more likely to occur. If people believe they are going to fail they may not be willing to put enough effort into the project, and it is this that has caused them to fail.

Research into Self Fulfilling Prophecies

Once of the most famous studies looking self fulfilling prophecies was conducted by Robert Rosenthal and Lenore Jacobson in 1968. They described the Pygmalion effect which shows that the greater the expectations that are put on people the better they will perform. The experiment involved telling teachers that certain students had higher IQs than others – even though this information was made up. The fact that the teachers believed that certain students had higher abilities than others meant that they interacted with these students differently. The end result was that those students who had been labeled as having a higher IQ later did better in tests.

Negative Self Fulfilling Prophecy and Addiction

The theory of self fulfilling prophecies can have important implications for people who are struggling with and addiction. It may mean that:

* If the people who interact with the addict hold negative views about them it may further push that individual into misery and despair.
* If people believe the addict is a hopeless case they might be influenced to adapt this role.
* If the individual decides that recovery is not an option for them they will not be willing to take the steps necessary to escape their misery. They remain trapped in addiction, and this just reinforces the idea that they are a hopeless case.
* It may even be that by predicting their descent into addiction the individual is helping to make it reality. They might increase their intake of alcohol or drugs in order to deal with the knowledge of their deteriorating conditions thus promoting further deterioration.

Negative Self Fulfilling Prophesies in Recovery

The predictions that the individual, or even other people, make about attempts at recover can have an impact. Such beliefs can mean that:

* If the individual believes that they are likely to relapse they may not see the point in putting enough effort into staying sober. Their lack of effort may then become the cause of their relapse back to addiction.
* If loved ones expect the individual to relapse they may not be willing to offer needed support and encouragement. The newly sober person might react to this lack of faith by becoming discouraged and confirming the prophecy.
* If professionals in the recovery community feel that the individual is likely to relapse they may react with this person in such a way as to increase the likelihood of this happening.
* If the individual believes that a recovery option is not going to work for them it probably won’t work. Their negative prediction will prevent them from getting the most out of any program.
* Negativity of any kind saps much needed motivation in recovery. If the individual does not have a strong drive to stay away from alcohol and drugs they will struggle.
* People can use their negative prophecy as justification to relapse.
* Such prophecies can lower the individual’s self-efficacy.

Positive Self Fulfilling Prophecies in Addiction and Recovery

Self fulfilling prophecies can also have a highly beneficial impact on people in addiction and recovery because:

* If the individual believes that they are going to be able to escape their addiction it will increase their motivation to do so.
* Family and friends can boost the individual’s self-belief in recovery by also believing that recovery is going to be possible.
* Once the individual predicts that they are going to make a success of recovery they will be willing to put more effort into it. They accept that they are building towards a more successful future and that they will later be able to reap the rewards of their current efforts.
* If people in the recovery community predict that the newly sober person is going to be successful they may interact with this individual in a more nurturing way. These professional become willing to invest more time and energy into the individual because of their increased faith in that person.

Self Efficacy and Self Fulfilling Prophecies

Self efficacy is the belief that the individual has in their ability to achieve something. The higher the individual’s self-efficacy the more likely they will be to achieve their goal. If people have low self-efficacy it can be very hard for them to achieve anything because they will not have enough motivation. This is because when people have low self efficacy it also means that their motivation will be low. The individual who feels confident in their ability to achieve the goal will become willing to put in the necessary effort – they have faith that their effort will be worth it. In this way high self efficacy can create a positive self fulfilling prophecy. It also means that the individual will find it easier to ignore any negative predictions made by other people.

How to Increase Self Efficacy in Recovery

If the individual hopes to avoid negative self fulfilling prophecies they will need to increase their self efficacy. They can achieve this by:

* Spending time with inspiration people in recovery – particularly those who have already been successful at building a life away from addiction.
* Self efficacy can be increased by observing peers achieving the desired goal. It leads to the idea that if they can do it then so can I.
* An addiction therapist is skilled at increasing self efficacy by persuasion. They encourage the individual to believe in their own power to change.
* Those people who join a recovery fellowship may find that this increases their self efficacy. They will be surrounded by people who are on the same path, and the sense of camaraderie can be motivating.
* Self efficacy can be increased by small successes. If the individual achieves something small it increases their confidence to try for something a bit bigger next time.

from alcoholrehab.com

Last edited by Dee74; 09-01-2020 at 06:34 PM. Reason: removed commercial link
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Old 09-01-2020, 07:31 AM
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You can stay sober today, Flowing.

You might not feel great, but you can get through it. Get rid of any alcohol you have and make a plan to keep busy so you don't buy more. Treat yourself to a special meal, get some exercise and you can get past this.
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Old 09-01-2020, 07:45 AM
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Once I honestly examined my motivation to drink, the decision not to got easier. Even before I tipped the scales into physical addiction, I drank to get drunk. I didn’t want a glass, I wanted the bottle. I drank for the peace of mind it gave, numbing my emotions and blunting the sharp edges. Until it didn’t.

I do not believe I can drink like a “normal person”, because I really never did. So, for me, the calculation of “alcoholic or not” is irrelevant. Were I to drink right now, I would finish all I had on hand and then want more. And I would do the same tomorrow. I spent years proving that truth to myself.

Since that is not how I wish to live my life, I choose not to drink. I have my own theories on how alcohol works in my particular brain and body, but it is unimportant in my day-to-day sober life. An honest examination of my motives led me to the right decision, so my alcoholic pattern of drinking and misery serves only as reinforcement for my (correct) decision.

There are so many things in life to ponder. I’m so glad I left the obsession about whether or not to buy a bottle has been left behind.
-bora
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Old 09-01-2020, 08:23 AM
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I don’t delineate between a slip and a relapse because for me it’s not the actual drinking or severity. It’s the decision to first pick up. Whatever I was doing in the days/weeks building up to that first pick up is what causes that pick up.
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Old 09-01-2020, 08:47 AM
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I prefer just to say that one chose to drink again as that is the reality. As with any addictive behaviour if you’re not ready to recover then dipping your toe again will more than likely end up in drowning again before long.
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Old 09-01-2020, 12:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Flowing View Post
Why is it so hard for a slip not to turn into a full blown relapse with weeks or months of destructive drinking? ...
A slip IS a relapse. The time you spend drinking again after you've already quit is irrelevant. One drink or one year of drinking - it's all a relapse. That's how I look at it. Minimizing the amount or the time spent doing it is self deceiving. A person either had alcohol or not. There is no in-between.
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Old 09-01-2020, 01:16 PM
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I think SoHard hit the nail on the head. It doesn't matter so much what you call it - it's how you respond that really counts. If I roll over and play dead (which I've done many times), then I keep drinking. The AV is more than happy to provide me with a load of lies to promote that; "You're a failure. See, I told you that you couldn't do this. You're one of those alcoholics of the variety that just can't be honest. You might as well have fun now since you already messed up."

If instead I say, "I messed up. Glad I got that lesson - I'll never put myself in that situation again," (or whatever lesson I learned), then I'm taking charge of myself and my future choices. I am powerless over the fact that I became addicted to alcohol. I am most certainly not powerless over the inanimate object that is alcohol. Lots of people in AA and elsewhere get that. SoHard. The language is antiquated for sure, but in the end it's up to me to apply my own reasoning to accommodate for the fact that I did become addicted. Or that I did drink again despite my knowledge that this would be a very bone-headed thing to do. That's addiction. And I will never be not addicted - THAT is the important thing to take to the bank rather than splitting hairs over what that martini or gin or week of beer or whatever "means."

O
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Old 09-01-2020, 01:37 PM
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S.L.I.P

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Old 09-01-2020, 02:20 PM
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For me, I either drink or I don't drink. There is no middle ground. No safe space between drinks. No magical time frame where it isn't a problem. I either drink or I don't.

If I drink, no matter the amount nor time frame, it is guaranteed by history to develop into a problem in the future. For that reason...I don't drink period.

That way I don't spin my wheels over whether it is a slip or a relapse. For me, they are both drinking. Drinking is problem for me. Problems are to be solved, period.



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Old 09-01-2020, 05:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Flowing View Post
Why is it so hard for a slip not to turn into a full blown relapse with weeks or months of destructive drinking? I suppose if we could slip occasionally then we wouldn't be addicts??

I can see so clearly that my life before the last few days of drinking was so much better but I'm really struggling to get back on the wagon and commit.
Whether or not a slip is a relapse, I just want to try to answer the question.

It's hard for a "little slip" not to become a full-blown relapse because we're alcoholics. The one thing we all have in common (as far as I can tell) is that one sip sends us down the path to oblivion. Normal people aren't like that.

If you can still see how much better it was before you started drinking again, consider yourself lucky. Get back on the wagon and commit.
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Old 09-01-2020, 06:01 PM
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Our AV tends to only advertise the ease and comfort that comes with those first few drinks.

Even the effect of one night of drinking, this poison does not simply go away in a few hours. Drinking is not a few hours process. Nobody's goal is to feel like crap but if it were it would be like an antibiotic. You take an antibiotic when you're real sick and it doesn't do its thing for quite a few hours. That's alcohol's thing, to make you feel like crap. Though its most known for its immediate effect. We live in an instant gratification World.

Once the alcohol starts really working its way into the body over night like rattle snake venom the ease and comfort another drink offers can appear much more tempting. Getting back sober, that's gonna take work.

Kind of like looking at a tsunami and saying this thing make the ocean retreat. Yeah, for a little while the ocean retreats. Our AV tells is what a great opportunity this will be to find interesting sea shells.

Over time sober we chip away at the grip the obsession has over us. Once you drink again its like that damn you built holding back the obsession is smashed. Just how bad I guess depends on many factors.


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Old 09-01-2020, 06:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Obladi View Post
I think SoHard hit the nail on the head. It doesn't matter so much what you call it - it's how you respond that really counts.
Yes, we can argue semantics of slip/relapse all day long and prove nothing. But if you slip or relapse or whatever you call it, the next step should always be corrective action. What will you do to prevent it from happening again?

The danger of recurring slip/relapse is that each time, it may get harder to prevent the next recurrence. A guy told me at my first AA meeting that each time he quit, he would struggle through the cravings until they became passing thoughts. I thought of him as an expert at relapsing and quitting. While it was a big encouragement when he told me that I wouldn't have to suffer with cravings for the rest of my life, it saddened me when he drank himself to death about five years later. Intuitively, I understood long before he died that I didn't want to become that comfortable with falling on and off the wagon. It seemed risky.

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Old 09-01-2020, 09:45 PM
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I know for me the slip/relapse became a common occurrence every time I tried to stop. The most dangerous thing I thought it caused was the demoralization. It was getting harder and harder to think I CAN do this. It was getting harder to pull myself up by my bootstrings and try again, even after drinking for 1 day as opposed to days on end.

I was losing faith in myself and thought it would probably get to the point where I would give up trying to give up altogether. Everytime I did stop I thought "well I know it will probably end in failure" which was the kiss of death before I even started!
So now I think the time to stop a slip/relapse is before it even starts. Because I found there were always signs in my thinking that I was heading for one

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