staying with a friend

Old 08-22-2020, 10:09 AM
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staying with a friend

Things have been real bad with my AS... GF left due to his drinking and he spiraled down again. Refuses to get help. Was 10 days sober and that's gone. I feel I should call for a well check even though he is 1700 miles away. Husband said no.

We offered him to come home for a few weeks but he would have to go for counseling, IOP, no driving our cars and no women at our house... He refused our rules. AS called this am... is supposedly flying back to our area and staying with a friend who was once an exgf who has a home and a boyfriend Says he has extreme resentment towards us and won't stay here because he wants to get on with his life and find someone else...

He is not well. He needs help but refuses. Said he went 6x's for help and it doesn't work.
Not sure how long he will last at the friends house.


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Old 08-22-2020, 10:18 AM
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Originally Posted by hummingbird358 View Post
We offered him to come home for a few weeks but he would have to go for counseling, IOP, no driving our cars and no women at our house... He refused our rules.
Not sure how long he will last at the friends house.
it looks like you offered him ultimatums. 'You can come home IF ...'
Those only offer addicts the opportunity to say, "NO THANKS".

I understand how hard it must be for you to have to suffer the powerlessness involved in being unable to straighten your son out. But this is his gig. He has to want to get sober. He has to want to live. There's not much you can do except offer your love and support for his sobriety.

What happens when he gets to his ex-girlfriend's home is not your concern. She's probably making a huge mistake by allowing him to stay there, but she'll figure that out in time. Who knows - maybe something wonderful will come of it (even though it might not look wonderful at the time). Your son is an adult. Maybe it's time he learn to behave like one.

Best.
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Old 08-22-2020, 10:29 AM
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He cries he doesn't want to die but won't get help...
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Old 08-22-2020, 10:35 AM
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I that feeling..."it's an emergency! He's going to get hurt or die!" feeling with my stepson. My late husband and I would run around in a panic, worrying, trying to arrange things for him--all of which he refused. I don't think I recall the number of times he told us he hated us.

Plus, the classic "Everyone says they want to help me, but no one will do anything!" Well, we did offer help, but no if he was going to continue to drink and use drugs on our dime. And no, it wasn't an ultimatum. That was just our boundary. We were not going to keep throwing money at him knowing he would use it for booze or drugs.

You see, help to my stepson was paying for his car, his phone, his apartment, his spending money, his food, doing his laundry, etc., all while he was free to drink and do drugs. That is not the kind of 'help' we were willing to offer.

I know that this seems like a 4-alarm emergency, but from my own experience, addicts and alcoholics are very, very resourceful. Try to breathe...and then breathe again. Tell him you love him and that you know he can do this. If he wants to talk about ways in which he can find help, listen and ask questions, but don't offer to fix or arrange anything. But ultimately all of his decisions and actions are his to own.

Believe me, I know how much this hurts. I know how anxious you feel right now--truly. Try to distract yourself or get some exercise. It helps, truly.
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Old 08-22-2020, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by hummingbird358 View Post
He cries he doesn't want to die but won't get help...
That's hard. But he knows by now after six attempts to get help - that help is out there. But he has to want it. For some of us, things have to get unbelievably awful before we wake up. That was my experience. It might have to be his too.

Give him time.
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Old 08-22-2020, 10:41 AM
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Thinking of you and your son, Hummingbird. Seren's post above, is full of so much wisdom: I know, because I was the one addicted to alcohol.
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Old 08-22-2020, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by hummingbird358 View Post
Says he has extreme resentment towards us and won't stay here because he wants to get on with his life and find someone else
hi hummingbird, I think the above is perhaps the most important part of the story here?

He is an addict, yes, but he is also a grown man. How would you have felt if your parents had tried to run your life at his age? I don't know your history, maybe they did? Unless he has a very, very passive personality, your approach to this is guaranteed to cause resentment on his part and a big rift in your relationship.

He has stated how he feels and it's perhaps time to really take that to heart. If not, at some point, he probably will stop contacting you altogether.


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Old 08-22-2020, 01:50 PM
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So in other wards I should have just opened my doors and had him move in with us with no boundaries?
So he could have girls over and have sex in his old bedroom, drive our cars and smash them like in the past with his own cars, so he could smoke weed and cigarettes in my home, so he could destroy our home like he did before??
So I was wrong in saying he was welcomed to come here for a few weeks but he had to follow our rules?
He won't take his meds, he won't get help, he continues to do the same things over and over.... jump into another relationship without getting help.

He can stop contacting us as far as I am concerned. All he ever wants it seems is to manipulate us into paying for something
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Old 08-22-2020, 01:58 PM
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I hope you didn't take that from my post hummingbird?

I don't think you should have even invited him. I'm pretty sure he knows by now that the offer for help is open if he ever wants to take you up on it.



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Old 08-22-2020, 05:33 PM
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Originally Posted by hummingbird358
All he ever wants it seems is to manipulate us into paying for something
Yup, that's exactly what my stepson wanted. For his Dad and I to pay for everything and let him do whatever he wanted in his father's house. We definitely don't have to be disrespected and yelled at in our own homes by our adult, addicted children. No way, no how. You did nothing wrong in offering help in a way that worked for you. He just isn't ready to accept. That's his choice. And that is the hard part you have to accept. And like my stepson, you are now the 'bad guy' because you aren't letting his addiction run amok. And yes, his addiction is calling the shots now. I will make this one caveat: if he threatens to harm himself, do not hesitate to call an ambulance. Even if you have to do so from across the country. If he is serious, he will be in the hands of people who can really help him. If he is being manipulative, it will discourage him from doing so again.

Hang in there!
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Old 08-22-2020, 06:06 PM
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Holding your boundaries is a good thing--and I believe that telling him he could live with you only under certain conditions is exactly that, rather than an ultimatum. You offered him an option, and he didn't like the particulars, so he declined. He may say he wants help, but only if he can dictate what that help looks like. You, in turn, have the option of retracting what you said and doing things his way. It's a push/pull until one of you surrenders. If we surrender to what the addict wants, the addict will not get what he needs.

Maintaining boundaries does not always feel good, but that does not mean it isn't the right thing to do. I am proud of you for remaining firm and letting him work this out like the adult he is.
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Old 08-22-2020, 07:29 PM
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He called drunk and is blaming us for being babysat by his grandparents when he was little and how he had to lay on their couch all day long until we were done working....
He says he has nothing to live for and wants to die.
His ex girlfriend called for a well check on him.. The cop came and talked to him and told him things will get better. Then he calls us again telling us this and that he wants to die and it is all over again.
He is to be on a plane to fly back here tomorrow. When I asked if he packed he said he has no clue how he will get on the plane. He literally is not even mentally there.
I called the crisis line to ask what my options are... The state he is in won't commit him all they do is send a cop to check on them. When I called last year for a well check they went and then called me telling me he was just drunk... It was like I inconvenienced them by calling.
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Old 08-22-2020, 08:01 PM
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Originally Posted by hummingbird358 View Post
He called drunk and is blaming us for being babysat by his grandparents when he was little and how he had to lay on their couch all day long until we were done working....
He says he has nothing to live for and wants to die.
His ex girlfriend called for a well check on him.. The cop came and talked to him and told him things will get better. Then he calls us again telling us this and that he wants to die and it is all over again.
He is to be on a plane to fly back here tomorrow. When I asked if he packed he said he has no clue how he will get on the plane. He literally is not even mentally there.
I called the crisis line to ask what my options are... The state he is in won't commit him all they do is send a cop to check on them. When I called last year for a well check they went and then called me telling me he was just drunk... It was like I inconvenienced them by calling.
Your son certainly knows just what buttons to push to get to you, and to get you to do what he wants. Did he want anything from you other than to tell you he was ruined by being cared for by his grandparents? (Total manipulative BS, by the way) Did he actually ask for anything or did he just want someone to listen to his inebriated ramblings? Never pleasant, that.

The police and ambulance can’t, unfortunately, do anything if the person is conscious and refusing to be helped. It’s your son’s right to turn people away. I know how heartbreaking this is, and I’m sorry you are enduring it.

I hope he reaches out for real help, soon!
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Old 08-22-2020, 08:01 PM
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Originally Posted by hummingbird358 View Post
He called drunk and is blaming us for being babysat by his grandparents when he was little and how he had to lay on their couch all day long until we were done working....
He says he has nothing to live for and wants to die.
His ex girlfriend called for a well check on him.. The cop came and talked to him and told him things will get better. Then he calls us again telling us this and that he wants to die and it is all over again.
He is to be on a plane to fly back here tomorrow. When I asked if he packed he said he has no clue how he will get on the plane. He literally is not even mentally there.
I called the crisis line to ask what my options are... The state he is in won't commit him all they do is send a cop to check on them. When I called last year for a well check they went and then called me telling me he was just drunk... It was like I inconvenienced them by calling.
Your son certainly knows just what buttons to push to get to you, and to get you to do what he wants. Did he want anything from you other than to tell you he was ruined by being cared for by his grandparents? (Total manipulative BS, by the way) Did he actually ask for anything or did he just want someone to listen to his inebriated ramblings? Never pleasant, that.

The police and ambulance can’t, unfortunately, do anything if the person is conscious and refusing to be helped. It’s your son’s right to turn people away. I know how heartbreaking this is, and I’m sorry you are enduring it.

I hope he reaches out for real help, soon!
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Old 08-22-2020, 08:01 PM
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It's likely he will continue to blame anyone and everyone he can until he must face the fact that only HE is responsible for how he deals with these perceived slights.

He will either get on the plane tomorrow or he won't. He will either stop drinking or he won't. He will either find something to live for, or he won't. I know you probably don't want to accept any of this, but what choice do you really have? I suppose you could go get him, and lock him in a room in your house until he decides he has had enough, but is that the kind of life you want for him? For yourself? Prisoner and jailer? How long do you think you could reasonably sustain such an arrangement?

Of course there are no guarantees, but I actually think it is a good sign that he is telling you these things. It might mean that he wants attention more than he actually wants to die.

The cops are not as close to this situation emotionally as you are. They likely see this dozens of times a week. He IS just drunk. It is not illegal to be drunk, and they are not trained therapists.

The only way to the next phase of this whole business is to accept that you are powerless over him and his choices--and so is everyone else who is not him. That includes the cops, the state, his ex-girlfriend, his grandparents, everyone.
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Old 08-22-2020, 11:19 PM
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He just called again... Said he can't sleep so I asked if he packed yet... He was totally out there and was like ah... what time again is the flight? I said you need to be there at 7:55am... He was "yeh, I doubt if I will make that"
I lost it again. I can't stop. I said well then I guess you will not be leaving your apartment because that is your flight you were coherent enough to ask for yesterday.
I had to get off the phone and when I got back on I heard him say to my husband that he was tired of disappointing everyone... Really?
I felt like calling for a well check but what good will that do..
Again, they will just say he is drunk.
I guess we just sit back and wait. If he loses his job because he missed how much time last week and now he sure doesn't seem like he will make it this week.
All he can say is he wants to die.
Sorry for another post.
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Old 08-23-2020, 02:22 AM
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As hard as it is....you may need just stop answering his calls. He knows what he needs to do and he just doesn’t want to do it. Every alcoholic says they want to get clean, they just don’t actually want to do the work it takes too get clean, which really just means they are not ready to get clean. You have told your son he can come home with the necessary boundaries in place. He doesn’t want to accept those boundaries so why is he still calling you? To play victim and get sympathy and manipulate you. It doesn’t help him and it certainly doesn’t help you. You talking to him doesn’t accomplish anything other than you knowing that he is still alive and drunk and it causes you great emotional stress of course. The reason his recovery efforts haven’t worked is because he is not really ready to quit despite him saying he wants to. He just wants a magic pill and everyone else to fix him and that isn’t going to work unfortunately. I would honestly go no contact. He knows what he needs to do to get help, no one else can help him get there. Of course you will worry about him but it sounds like you worry about him even more when you are in contact with him and it doesn’t change anything. If he doesn’t get on the plane, oh well. It doesn’t change anything for you whether he does or not. Chances are he will be drunk and they won’t let him on anyway.

What are you doing to help yourself with all this? Are you doing counseling? Alanon? You need to focus on you and not him because as you know it doesn’t help any. I know it is easier said than done to cut contact with him but it will be much better for your mental and physical health. He is an adult, what he does is his choice even if that choice is a very bad one. He has the choice to seek help and get sober. He just chooses not to do that. That is on him and no one else.

Take care of you and be kind to yourself. This is really hard to watch but at some point you have to accept his choices, crappy as they may be.
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Old 08-23-2020, 04:42 AM
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Never apologize for talking it out here, hummingbird. Really. You are welcome to post here as much as you need. If that's every hour on this thread, then please post every hour.

Yes, unfortunately, he sounds like he is too intoxicated to even know what day or time it is.

I used to swing between furious, anxious, grief-stricken all in the course of an hour when some 'crisis of the day' was going on with my stepson. Sometimes I wanted to grab him by the shoulders and shake some sense into him. Sometimes, when I hadn't seen him in a long time, I wanted to hug the stuffing out of him.

Until I really, truly, finally accepted my complete and utter lack of control over him and his future, I was a mess. Finally, the only things I could do--that were in my power--were to tell him I love him, that I believe in him, and that he is worth whatever work it takes on his part to have a peaceful and joy-filled life. And I pray and pray.
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Old 08-23-2020, 05:18 AM
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hummingbird, post as much as you need to, and never apologize. What you're going through is agonizing, and you deserve support.
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Old 08-23-2020, 05:36 AM
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My heart breaks for you.
I think you were fine to set boundaries. My brother and SIL had their grandson and wife as tenants in their in-law apartment. Perfectly lovely kids, zero problems - and still set a time limit on their stay.

No one is required to subsidize another's drug use. At one point, there was talk of my step-daughter o=moving to this part of the country and staying near us for a fresh start. I told AH she simply was not going to stay with us: for one thing, AH and step-daughter egged each other on in drinking contests. For another, she didn't appear serious in making life changes. Example: she wanted a car so she could get a job. When she was in New England for a visit, AH offered to take her out AND BUY HER A CAR. She said, "But if I go out for a whole afternoon, who'll let my dogs in and out?"

She has successfully manipulated her mother and step-dad (and now an ex-husband) to subsidize her living for the last 20 years.
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