Truth

Ok so i keep reading that alcoholism is a disease but i am confused. My BF seems to be using alcoholism as an excuse to be inconsiderate and selfish even though he is sober for about 50 days now. I keep reading about how they compare alcoholism to diseases like cancer and how u shouldn't blame them for the disease. However i also feel that it allows them not to take responsibility for their actions. I feel that some of their behaviors are just due to bad personality characteristics rather than alcohlism. Where is the line drawn? So i was wondering if someone could explain this concept of alcoholism as a disease? thanks

sandyr

I, too, am having a problem understanding alcoholism as a disease. I think it's just a matter of making bad choices (whether to drink or not). Would you say someone who eats too much, as in very overweight, has a disease?

Petunia

Truth,

I agree that bad behavior is bad behavior, no matter who is performing it. What I think is important in realizing the concept of alcoholism as a disease is connecting concepts that - "you didn't cause it, you can't control it, and you can't cure it" Like if someone is diagnosed with the disease of diabetes. You didn't cause it, can't control it for someone esle, and you can't cure it.

When I attended an open introduction to AA the gentleman leading the session did an excellent job of explaining the concept of dis-ease. How 9 out of 10 people when they have a drink will start to feel relaxed and at ease after having a drink. But the alcoholic doesn't feel that sense of ease and are thereby in a state of dis-ease. They drink another and another, and keep drinking trying to get that feeling but it is something that they are never going to acheive. This is why, in part they cannot have even one drink. Much like a diabetic who cannot eat sweets/sugar - not even a little bit or their body will react negatively.

I'm not trying to make a joke, but I related to the way I eat chocolate. If I have a Hershey kiss, one piece is usually not satisifying to me. So I have several. But if I NEVER have the first piece I am okay. Different for sure, but I did gain an appreciation for the concept of alcoholism as a dis-ease.

I hope this helps some. And again it is my perspective.

Peace,
Petunia

Peaches04

Thanks Truth...I would like to get people's opinions on this too! My counselor explained it to me by saying that the drinking is just a symptom of the disease. The disease is really about behaviors. Some days this makes sense to me, and some days it doesn't. So, I'd love to hear other people's thoughts on this.

jlu

I have a GREAT article that discusses addictions as a disease and explains how in "turns" into one. I would love to post it but its very long and I've been apprehensive. I will if anybody wants to read it but it may take me a few days because I might have to re-type it. (Unless I can find it on the internet somewhere already).

I truly did not understand the disease concept until I read this. It really opened my eyes and now I am more able to be compassionate about what addicts are going through.

Just let me know.....

Doug

My dad does the same thing. Hes been sober 18 years.

I think of it, and guage it for myself like this:
"If the only people who know I'm in recovery are the people at the tables, then I'm not recovering."

Early recovery can be tricky, and the best thing you can do is whats best for you.

Peaches04

Jlu - I certainly don't want you to have to re-type it, but I would be very interested in seeing that! I've gone through this with an addict sister, and am now married to an AH...and I still struggle with the behavior. I think I even more 'get it' with the addict, because I can relate to the inticement of drugs - but, I just don't get the alcoholic thing. I was looking for just such an article the other day!

tealeaf

I'm still new to all this. (My BF is in his 3rd week at a residential treatment facility) But here's the way I understand it, from what he's told me (by no means an expert's opinion):

Though there is a genetic predisposition to alcoholism, not everyone with that predisposition will get the disease. This predisposition when combined with various environmental factors, the person's own negative behaviors, and other contributing factors lead to the disease. As an analogy, think of someone who develops diabetes from poor eating habits and a lack of exercise. Once a person becomes an alcoholic, his brain chemistry is altered and he loses more and more control.

Having said all that, I still have issues with the personal responsibility aspect of the disease model. Alcoholism is not an excuse for bad behavior. An alcoholic -- practicing or not -- is responsible for all his actions. However, the disease model does help explain why someone would continue to engage in behaviors that are harmful or hurtful.

PS - I am more comfortable offering help than taking it. So, I'll make myself share that I am still very resentful of my BF being in treatment, because after waiting so long for him to admit his problem, I now have to wait for him to get a handle on it. When is it my time? Thanks for listening.

kweather99

As an alcoholic with 15 months sober, maybe I can offer some insight. Follow this link for a good discussion on the topic: http://www.empoweredrecovery.com/articles/underalco.htm

Truth, in rehab they told me that traces of alcohol remain in the brain up to 18 months, and I can say from experience that after 50 days I was barely thinking clearly. I also think we need to distinguish between abstinence and sobriety. Sobriety is defined as: In other words, just because I don't drink does not mean I am sober. That is taking nothing from anyone who is in early recovery, but abstinence and sobriety are often confused, in my experience.

There is a phrase that is often repeated around the AA tables that is, "one drink is too many and a thousand are not enough." This deals with the obsession that develops in my mind (because of a genetic predisposition to alcoholism and the specific way my body metabolizes alcohol - or the way it doesn't, to be more specific). if I have even one sip of alcohol. Willpower is insufficient to stop the craving once I start drinking, therefore I must make the appropriate moral choice and do everything in my power to work my recovery so that I never take that first drink. I alone am responsible for that choice (all choices I make) because I know exactly what happens when I drink and where it usually leads me - to the destruction of myself and those around me.

If I have emphysema I have a moral responsibility to myself and loved ones not to smoke, right? So to me that is where the question of morals and character should come into play.

jlu

Peaches... I found it. It is very long but well worth the read... at least for me anyway. This speaks to just the physical aspects of addiction not the mental, emotional or psychological. I think that everybody has their own "problems" and whatever they are will still be there when the addict is recovered. Those would need to be worked on still though in terms of counseling or whatever... but that's just my opinion.

Addiction: A Neurological Disorder

Addiction is a neurologically based disease. For many years recovery specialists have compared alcoholism or addictions to a physical disease: like diabetes. In reality addictions are more closely related to a neurological disorder like Tourette's Syndrome* than they are to diabetes.

If the problems you suffer stem from severe alcoholism or addiction, you must accept that these problems are not primarily mental or free will issues. Addictions are not about will power. The problems facing addicts, alcoholics, and their families are miserable, disgusting, and infuriating. They are often hopelessly discouraging. But to imagine that an addict "could change if he wanted to" is a serious misunderstanding of the long term dynamic of addictive disorder. The fact is precisely that an addict cannot change in the long run even if he wants to! That is the definition of addiction: "the loss of control over the use of a substance." It is important to understand that this loss of control is manifested not in terms of days or weeks, but in longer term behaviors: terms of months and years.

The reason addicts have lost control is because they have suffered permanent physical neurological changes based in their brains and nervous systems. The disorder manifests in long term obsessive-compulsive behaviors outside the realm of the addicts own control. It is true enough that the use of chemicals begins with chosen behavior. But if alcoholism or addiction develops, the problem has moved outside the realm of free choice. It has developed into a long term mental and physical neurological disorder. All the emotional 'feelings' involved in drug or alcohol seeking are based in neurology. Addiction is based in physical dependency created by altered neurotransmitter balances, and driven by millions upon millions of new living, functioning active neurological pathways which have been established to sustain the condition in the addicts brain. The new neurological pathways are permanently established, and they will not just disappear. The primary neurological disorder is only complicated by physical dependence on the substances. The physical dependence on the substances is secondary! Physical drug withdrawal does not change the underlying neurological addictive disorder. After drug withdrawal, long term overpowering cravings are predictable. These cravings are, in reality, spontaneous nerve impulses. Even in the longer term, overwhelming cravings are outside the addicts control.

Example of a Nerve Pathway

It is difficult for people to grasp the meaning of a nerve pathway, or why this is related to addiction. Often when people hear a new idea like: an addictive impulse is the result of a nerve impulse - they are left unsympathetic. Addicts and non addicts alike have a hard time believing that drug or alcohol use is anything more than a choice that is made in response to a habit. Deep down inside, most people believe that at it's root - the behavior is always a choice. They are very, very wrong. This author was stuck in addiction for over a decade, so completely was he convinced that the mind was an immaterial spiritual power - and that to call alcoholism or addiction a disease was a cop-out for the weak-willed. This author believed that - each and every time - free choice was at the root of addictive behavior. Until one day, in another recovery facility - the author stumbled upon the concept of neuro-pathways - by reading a book called The Training of the Will - by a Jesuit priest. That book was written in the early 1900's. Even then, the Jesuits knew that the root of almost all behavior was based - not in free will - but in neurological wiring. For the Jesuits, training the will essentially consists in training the body. After reading that book, this author began to understand that while his mind - his intellect - was indeed an immaterial power, the overwhelming cravings for drugs or alcohol were based in his body. He came to believe that addiction really was a neurological disease.

Consider the following: Most people can not wiggle their ears. The wiggling of the ears is really nothing but flexing the muscles of the scalp above the ears. The reason most people can not wiggle their ears is because they are not familiar with the neurological pathway which controls the muscle of the scalp above their ears. However, without exception, every person in the world can be trained to wiggle their ears. Simply by applying electrodes to the muscles of the scalp above the ears causes the muscles to flex, or spasm. Once the person feels where these muscles are, he finds that in fact he CAN wiggle his ears. The only reason he could not wiggle his ears before, was because he had not established the neurological pathway which enabled him to do so. Like turning on a switch - a neurological pathway can be established simply by passing a charge of electrical current into the nerves of the body. Once a person has learned to wiggle his ears - he might actually do it spontaneously and unintentionally - just because the words are mentioned.

This example is intended to illustrate how a simple neurological pathway is established. Before the electrode - there was no neurological pathway. After the electrode - the pathway has been established. The addictive neurological response to drugs and alcohol on the brain is infinitely more complex than this, but the physical basis is the same. The overwhelming craving for drugs or alcohol that endlessly defeats addicts is in reality a neurological impulse - and they have absolutely no control over the craving when it is triggered. All they know is that they want, they need, they feel they MUST have the drug. This "desire", this craving is not a free choice. This desire is an electro-chemical neurological brain impulse. A person who suffers from these cravings to the detriment of his own life, and the lives of others, is suffering from a physical, neurological disease termed addictive disorder.

Recovery from Addiction

Withdrawing from physical dependence on the drug does not change the fundamental addictive disorder. The whole neurological, chemical and emotional being of an addict, or an alcoholic has become permanently disordered. An addict or an alcoholic has developed a very, very severe disease. He must take the matter very, very seriously. A quick 7 day "detox" will never be an answer. The alcoholic-addict in the longer term, is like a rat that has become habituated by a scientist to choosing cocaine over food. The rat in the short term, can NOT control the neurological impulse to choose the cocaine! The rat will continue to seek it, ignoring food and water, until he dies! The rat's nerve-impulse to use the cocaine has nothing to do with free will. The addict-alcoholic suffers from an identical disorder in the long term. The addict cannot control these spontaneous overwhelming neurological impulses to use, any more than the rat can on the short term! (The neurological impulse is called a craving.) Just by examining an addicted rat you can't see the obvious problem. But the new neurological pathways that have now been established are permanent and life threatening! These are just as physical and real as any disease. Addiction is a self-contracted neurological disease. It IS a 'created' disorder. Nonetheless, it is also a physical problem on a neurological level, and it is very real. A chemically dependent person can NOT stop the over-powering cravings for the substance in the long term, any more than someone with Parkinson's disease can stop tremors. "Self knowledge avails us nothing."

The addiction will never somehow go away without intervention of some kind. An addict will not ever recover if he can just "kick" for a few days. The whole emotional, physical, and neurological system has already been altered too drastically for any temporary kick to even scratch the surface of the underlying disorder. At the very minimum, an introductory 30 day dry-out period must somehow be enforced. Minimizing, hoping, or rationalizing that the problem might be somehow be overcome by more modest measures is wishful thinking. Addictive impulses are generated physiologically. They often lie dormant for many days or weeks as the addict attempts to recuperate from the painful physical or emotional trauma the addictions themselves have inflicted. But, the underlying neurological conditions remain very much intact. Neurologically based impulses to use or drink require at least 4 weeks of enforced abstinence just to begin to dissipate enough to be manageable. Then another 6, extremely critical, weeks are required to adjust to living without the chemical. Depression, anger, boredom, and then "happy-excited feelings" are predictable. These feelings always follow initial detox. All of these will feelings will eventually trigger an uncontrollable addictive impulse in early sobriety. There is NO way to turn off these inevitable overpowering addictive impulses! During this period the addict needs help. With the help they need, the chemically dependent person can improve dramatically, if he can work through the initial weeks of mandatory depression, cope with reoccurring anger, and maintain at least 10 weeks of abstinence. Seventy days seems like an eternity in early recovery, but shorter periods of abstinence do nothing to subdue the underlying neurological conditions.

With this in mind, it is essential that an addict prepare himself for almost 3 months of initial recuperation. It's precisely when the addict feels that his system is stabilizing that he is in the gravest danger. This usually occurs at about 45 days clean. It is then when the addict must begin to resolve underlying emotional and social conflicts. For an addict: stress causes craving! To become free of addiction, an addict must resolve the conflicts in his life! He can do this by accepting responsibility for his actions, and by facing and resolving his deepest anxieties. He must make amends to himself, to his family, and to society. The only way for an addict to relieve the stresses which cause him to use is to identify the interior and exterior conflicts in his life and resolve them. "You have to name it, to claim it." When conflicts are resolved serenity becomes possible. By achieving new levels of interior serenity, compulsive behaviors can be overcome. It is serenity which enables an addict to be relieved of compulsions. Serenity can only be achieved by the resolution of conflict. Over time, and the resolution of conflicts, addiction becomes manageable. Most addicts are not consciously aware of many of the conflicts from which they actually suffer.

For permanent relief an outside support system is the most helpful. According to Alcoholic's Anonymous, the alcoholic-addict must come to accept that the underlying condition of the disease consists precisely in always being defenseless against taking the "first one." No matter how much clean time one accrues, he forever remains defenseless against using again. According the Big Book of Alcoholics Anonymous, at some point, at some time, for perhaps NO reason, the alcoholic-addict WILL ALWAYS use again! That is exactly what true alcoholism-addiction is! The addict-alcoholic remains forever defenseless against using again that first time! His only defense against 'the first one' must come from a power greater (or other) than himself.

The complete healing process comes from an internal dependency shift. Ten weeks of abstinence are required to subdue the strong neurological impulses to use. After a minimum ten week neurological pacification, (detox), the reoccurring compulsion to use the chemical can be permanently relieved. This is accomplished through a neurological "re-wiring." The alcoholic-addict must stop imagining that they can somehow permanently stay clean by themselves. This doesn't mean that they need to attend meetings for the rest of their lives. Eternal meetings are NOT the point. But, a radical dependency shift must be effected within the addicts own heart and mind. He must psychologically shift away from relying on the validity of his own thought process about his addiction! To effectively "re-wire" his disordered nervous system, he must come to rely fiercely and absolutely upon the directions provided from an external support system. By mentally changing what he relies upon, his nervous system undergoes a profound change.

Consider this example:

Two new people attend a support meeting. (It's not the type of meeting, or support group, that is important.) The first person thinks to himself: "I don't want to be here. These people are unattractive. The thought of having to associate with them forever disgusts me." He is now depending upon the validity of his own internal thought process. He drives away, and continues to try to stay clean on his own, and to continue to depend on the validity of his own thought process. Then he has sorrowful trouble in his relationships, which break his heart. He fails to succeed as he thinks he ought to, which breaks his heart. Something bad happens, or something good happens, (it doesn't matter), and he thinks to himself: "I can't deal with sobriety right now!" (This is the person depending upon the validity of his own thought process.) His addictive impulse is triggered. In a matter of time the strong cravings (neurological impulses) overwhelm him and he begins to use again.

Now, consider the second person who attends the support meeting. He also thinks to himself: "I don't want to be here. These people are unattractive. The thought of having to associate with them forever disgusts me." But, this person says OUT LOUD to the group: "I don't want to be here! You people seem unattractive! The thought of having to associate with you disgusts me!" And the whole group, with one voice says to him in reply: "That's how you are supposed to feel! That's OK! You should feel that way! You're new! This is new! We are unattractive! The thought of associating with us should disgust you! It's OK to feel that way. But, from now on you must become willing to take directions! You must become willing to listen to us! You can NOT be in control of your own addiction anymore! You must let go absolutely, and no longer depend upon your own devices, or you will never recover from your addiction!" THIS PERSON ACCEPTS WHAT THEY SAY! He is willing to shift his internal dependency away from relying on himself for recovery. This begins to re-wire his neurology. His nervous system learns new responses to old stimuli. Then: he too has trouble in his relationships, which break his heart. He fails to succeed as he thinks he ought to, and this breaks his heart. He also thinks to himself: "I can't deal with sobriety right now." BUT HE IS UNDER ORDERS! His habits kick in! He calls for support! The support system says with one voice: feeling bad IS ok ... but using is NOT OK! You can't do that. You will not do that! You would be better to drive up right now to the local mental institution and check yourself in .... because what you are thinking about doing right now is sheer insanity! Because he has now shifted his dependency, and he no longer relies upon the validity of his own thought process, he obeys! He takes directions! The re-wiring of the dependency shift has taken hold: and he stays clean! He has established new neurological pathways and is able to stand fast through the critical moments. He has has effected the necessary dependency shift! His formerly disordered neurological system has become re-wired. When he is triggered, he automatically goes to the support system, even if it IS the local mental hospital, but he stays clean. Through a total dependency shift, he is soon permanently relieved of the obsession to use the chemicals. He recovers!

Effecting this necessary dependency shift is most easily done through submission to programs like Alcoholics Anonymous. Any unwillingness to completely accept the directives of a support program just as it is presented, is just a continuation of the addictive disorder. Sadly, anyone "who is special" or who "doesn't need" to comply with a support program, (just as it is presented), will permanently suffer the misery of addiction. There can be NO permanent relief for anyone who cannot effect the requisite 'dependency shift'. This is only happens when they stop depending on themselves to manage their own sobriety and they become fiercely willing to take directions. They must rely on the external support system more than they used to rely on the external chemical.

For many, the 12 Step programs have been the best answer to addiction. In this authors opinion, it really is God who gets miserable alcoholics and addicts clean anyway. Though human beings have physical bodies, and live in a material world: "the whole is greater than the sum of the parts." Human beings may be a complex mass of neurological pathways: but we are persons - not rats! We may be deeply frustrated, or disappointed, or wounded. Though we may suffer terribly, we do have an infinite capacity to heal, to achieve, to love and be loved, to create and to contribute! No one deserves the misery of addiction. "There is one who has all power, that one is God: may you find Him now!"


This article may be paraphrased, or referenced in the public domain, provided that the following reference is provided: Internet article: "Addiction as Disease" by David R. Hughes, 1997. URL http://www.medical-online.com/addict.htm

prodigal

...the first time an A picks up doesn't necessarily mean they become immediately addicted. In fact with any addiction - be it compulsive gambling, drinking or drugging - it stems from an inner problem/character defect that the addict cannot or will not deal with. Thus, the addictive agent becomes the initial "cure-all" for the pain generated by the emotional problem(s).

Let's admit it - addicts don't deal with their emotions, their feelings, their opinions (or at least not real opinions!) - they deal with smothering them under what they consider the "comfort zone" of the addiction.

Physiologically, I do feel that there is a genetic predisposition that runs in families towards addiction. But even though it is a disease, the addict chooses to pick it up off the shelf, or call his dealer for some more substance. Not quite like cancer or Alzheimer's, neither of which are consciously chosen by the sufferer.

jojo

Which came first, the chicken or the egg? Mental illness or alcoholism? After much thought and from my experience of living with an alcoholic I have come to look at the "disease" this way.

My husband had emotional issues his whole life. He never felt very good about himself, always thought everyone else was better, more confident, richer because they were luckier, etc than he was. He started drinking in the military like so many others. He learned that when he drank his problems went away for the time being. It became a pattern for him. Feel bad about something, have a few drinks, have a few more drinks, drink until you pass out. He comes from a long line of alcoholics so I'm sure that he was predisposed to being an A. But he CHOSE to pick up the bottle. He went 15 years without touching a drop and then CHOSE to start drinking again. I guess it never became important enough to him to try and find another solution to his problems such as counselling. He did attend AA on a regular basis but I came to believe that he was just putting in his time there. He already "knew everything about it" and therefore closed himself off from the help available.

He feels that he has finally hit bottom and sought the kind of help that he should have years ago. He has been diagnosed with chronic depression and anxiety and is being treated with prescription medications and has been seeing a therapist. Since he is 58 years old I hope that he truly did hit bottom because he doesn't have a whole lot of chances left. I truly believe that if he had sought the proper help years ago that the alcoholism wouldn't have been such a terrible problem for him and all of those that loved him.

I guess what I am saying is that in most cases I believe mental illness leads to addiction far more often than addiction leads to mental illness. Maybe it is more important to recognize and treat the mental illness before tackeling the alcoholism but therein lies the rub - does a practicing alcoholic even recognize the mental illness? Here's another question - does addiction lead to mental illness in those around them?

All I know for sure is that my mental state is a whole lot better now that I no longer live with an alcoholic!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jo

jlu

I agree that the first time has to be a choice... in fact the article states just that...

"It is true enough that the use of chemicals begins with chosen behavior. But if alcoholism or addiction develops, the problem has moved outside the realm of free choice. It has developed into a long term mental and physical neurological disorder."

I agree that the emotional issues that caused the addict to pick up the first time and then continue to pick up need to be dealt with.

I agree that some people are genetically predisposed to becoming an addict.

This article just explained the disease aspect to me more clearly and helped me to be more compassionate.

wraybear

here is another thing to think about...

Disease can be detected by some kind of blood test, brain scan, biopsy, etc.

Is there such a test for the "disease" of alcoholism?

Is it possible that alcoholism is a SIN and not a disease? In this case many AH's could say "the devil made me do it" instead of "my alcoholism made me do it"

Hmmmm, just something to consider.

wraybear

Jojo, I am VERY much in agreement with you. I am so convinced that it is so necessary for these A's to get counseling. My A is very similar to what you describe, even though he was very popular in our teen years, everyone LOVED "the bubba man" he was smooth and charming, etc. But, after several years of marriage I realized he was extremely insecure. I don't know if that developed throughout his life, because he was damaging his brain, or if he has always been that way and just hid it very well.
My A has always known he had a drinking problem and talked for years about getting help. He has now been in rehab 3 times but there is never much one on one counseling/therapy. It is more like AA meetings. It is so hard for most A's to admit they have a drinking problem - how in the world will they admit they may have some psychological issues? My husband is 46 and he's heard those horrible rumors about prozac, people murdering people, etc. so, he has this bad taste in his mouth about anti-depressants, yet he's okay with taking narcotics, oxycontin and percosets, and drinking himself into oblivion and driving a car extremely intoxicated with our children, and having an almost tragic accident... but, he won't take and anti-depressant???? That is a PSYCHOLOGICAL PROBLEM for sure...

Truth

Thanks everyone- i have lots of reading to do and i hope people will continue to post on this topic.
tealeaf
i feel the same way- when do i get something out of this relationship. i struggle with the thoughts of leaving my bf on a daily basis. all i can say is that the al anon and CODa meetings are helping and also we are taking a small break from one another right now. still very confused and trying to be sympathetic to him but having trouble.

jojo

It is hard to maintain that feeling of compassion when you live through repeated relapses, drunk driving tickets, jail time,fines, fees, loss of employment, loss of friends and family, loss of vehicles and the very home that you bought and love, the bruised emotions, hearts and bodies. You can still love them but at some point you should realize that compassion for the addict is not going to get you out of that very deep hole that you find yourself living in. I realized I had to save myself. It is alot easier at this point to have compassion for him from a distance.

They want us to feel sorry for them. The count on that compassion from us. I sometimes think it helps to keep them sick. We don't understand their "disease" because we aren't addicts just like no one can understand a person who lives with chronic pain unless they too suffer from it. We try to help them by being there for them. We pick up the pieces of the wrecks they make to save ourselves. We lie to their bosses to save their jobs not for them but to keep a roof over our heads, food on the table and clothes on our children's backs. What may start out as compassion turns to self preservation. What are we supposed to do when they won't accept that they have a problem and won't get any help? What are we supposed to do when they detox and rehab over and over and they just keep drinking? We need to save ourselves. Why don't we have more compassion for ourselves? We certainly deserve it more than someone who refuses to help themself. Do we then find ourselves in a position where we refuse to help ourselves? Why do we find it so hard to give up on lost dreams and realize that we have to make new lives and new dreams without them?

I think I've been storing these feelings up for a long time. Not everyone's situation is the same. Everyone has a different tolerance for what they can live with. Everyone's needs are different. If you find yourself in a situation that is making you sick at heart then it is time to do things differently. Some of us have to remove ourselves from that life for safety reasons, some for emotional health. Take a good look at yourself, your kids and the life your are living and if you feel it has become intolerable, start working on a way to change it - either with your A or on your own. There is a way if you want and need it bad enough. There is help out there if you look for it. There truly is life after living with an A and it can be a really good one!

Thank God that SR exists or all of those thoughts and feelings would have stayed inside and it is much better for them to see the light of day!

Hugs, Jo

jlu

I think that if an addict is going through AA and HONESTLY working the steps they're trying to work through their issues just like we are in going to Al-Anon and working our steps and talking with each other here. If we can work our programs and get healthy then why can't they? After all... aren't we here because of our OWN psychological issues? It's just that we deal with it by trying to control everything in our lives and they deal with it by drinking or drugging everything in their lives. We've all got issues, unfortunately some are manifested in much more self-destructive ways than others.

smoke gets in my eyes

http://soberrecovery.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2344

Hi Truth!
That's a link to an old thread sort of on the same topic that was pretty interesting. I found it because I was looking for something that Jon wrote about the same time that really helped me a lot. Still looking.

Rainy

first to kweather..thankyou for sharing from your own personal experience. your post was insightful and thoughtfully written.
as for the "disease"....I too struggled for months on whether or not I believe addiction is a disease...I'm still not sure where I'm at with it personally but I don't think that matters (my personal opinion only). I have read a ton on the subject..everything from the addicts brain being different then the non addicts to it being complete BS that its a "real" illness.
Personally I don't believe that ANYONE truly knows for sure.
my H went thru rehab 4 times (twice before I knew him for heroin and booze and twice since we've been together for booze). speaking only from my experience with him .. until he was WILLING to look at deep seeded issues that were painful AND admit that he alone could not deal with them .. did he even have a chance at staying sober. I can relate to that because until I was willing to do exactly the same things..I remained helplessly locked into my codependent insecure self.
while my H was in rehab 19 mos ago I asked a lot of questions to the head counselor and the best advice she gave me was that after 15 yrs working there she still didn't understand the "cause" but the key to recovery is acceptance that there IS a problem and the desire and will to get better..h@