Bidgdrunner

Hi guys,

Would really welcome some advice please. My wife is 46 and I'm struggling to know what to do. She's had what I would call a problem with alcohol for about five years, but it's got steadily worse. We've had serious chats about it many times, I'd say at least 6 or 7 times, and we've split up three times. The last time in 2018 when I also discovered she had built up £44,500 GBP in secret credit card debt. She remortgaged to pay it off and bought me out of my half of the house so I've been paying half her mortgage in rent for the past 18 months with £125,000 GBP burning a hole in a bank account as my house purchase fell through so I ended up staying, believing her promises.

Her drinking slowly increased, until a point in May this year when we had another serious chat. For the first time ever she admitted she had a problem and that she hated who she became when she drinks. She promised never to drink again. That lasted seven days.

This is what I sent her that day in and effort yet again to help her realise the effects on me.

Sent on Friday 22nd May 2020

Hey, thanks for opening up to me earlier, and in a way I'm pleased you're also aware of and worried about how bad things have got. I can't find what I wrote in 2018, but it was a similar to this. As I said this morning, I want to be blunt, deliberately so, because that way you understand how significant an issue this is and how much needs to change. But also because I want you to know that I want to help and support you.

I love you. But you drink too much and you drink too often. And when you drink you become someone I really don't like. I don't and never will have any problem with you drinking, but when you drink so much, and so often, and when you become someone who staggers around asking me the same questions again and again, arguing with the kids, and who regularly passes out on the sofa it starts to get beyond boring.

When we split up in April 2018 I wrote you a note telling you that this was your last chance, and that if you ever went back to the way you had been at that point that would be us done. I hope you agree I've been patient and determined but you're now back at that place again. The place where it feels like there are three of us in this marriage. Where the person I still love gets replaced night after night with a horrible imposter. Someone I hate, someone who when she reaches even for the first glass makes my heart sink with the horror of the prospect of spending the evening again with her. Not a person I recognise, not a person I like, not someone I respect and definitely not the person I married or want to spend my life with.

I offered before to help you, and I offer that again, and I want to support you, but only where you are willing and able to help yourself. Let me know please and I will do whatever you need and whatever it takes, including supporting you through professional help if you need. But, and we're in that place again, this remains a huge deal. I cannot and will not, however much I love you, spend the rest of my life with someone who's behaviour affects me so terribly in this way. I will not tolerate this any longer.

I'm so pleased you've recognised this, and have admitted that you get grumpy and become a different person when you're drunk, as I was never convinced before that you fully understood the horrible effect your drinking was having on me, as if I was being selfish by raising it.

As I said earlier, right now I do not want to come back onto the house deeds but really do want to give you a further opportunity to get things under control. Break the habit, fight the urges, remember please how it makes me feel and, if it helps, be terrified of being on your own, because that's where you'll end up. I doubt I'll move on, but I'll definitely move out.

Please, I'm begging you. It's horrible beyond words seeing you stolen night after night. Please know this is a big deal, and trust me when I say that you drink too much and that you drink too often. I hate the effect it is having on me and of having to share a sofa with you time after time when you become that different person.

Talk to me please. Hug me please. Love me please. But more than anything, please recognise that this is a real problem that if you don't sort out will leave me with no choice. I need to be blunt about the fact that I will not spend my life with someone who's behaviour makes me so miserable.

Xx

After that first week things returned pretty much to normal, with her drinking about 70-100 units a week. Then, this past week, she's just reached another level, see my diary below.

I would welcome advice from those who have also lived through this, either as an addict or someone who lives with one. I worry she's hiding or at least trying to hide her drinking from me, and she really doesn't seem to care or be able to control herself. She never just has one, there's always time for one more. And she is not a happy drunk, she a staggering, slurring argumentative, snarky and belligerent drunk, who I hate, I absolutely hate. Come the next morning there'll be empty wine bottles hidden behind the cornflakes, or sometimes thrown out of the kitchen window into the garden. I've found them in the back of her car, in her work bag. Every time she goes to the shop to 'get the kids some lemonade' she'll come back with two more bottles of wine. Every time I go out, either for work or to the shop or for a run, of an evening I'll find her drunk when I return. I stopped drinking entirely almost three years ago in an effort to help, but to no avail.

I have everything ready, mortgage offer etc, to go, just waiting for the right house, but should I ever expect her to change? The thought of the rest of my life being lived like this terrifies me but when sober she's good company, and the memory of how much I once loved her burns strong, so at what point do I think I've given enough?

Fridy 7th August. And again. She'd managed a whole bottle by 18:30, and had finished the 2nd by 20:30. She was absolutely wasted. Barely able to stand and slurring to the point it was hard to understand. She started the third bottle but had passed out by 21:30. I watched tv for an hour while she slept. At 22:30 she woke with a start and microwaved a huge plate of food, most of which she spilt on the sofa. 20 units. 110 for the week.

Thursday 6th August. Incessant. Drinking from 17:00, all night. One can of beer, the rest of the bottle of wine (8 units). Then two gin and tonic and two cans of coffee spirits. 15 units. She was slurring and belligerent as well as unsteady all night. She passed out about 22:30 and I went to bed at 22:55, leaving her on the sofa.

Wednesday 5th August. I went out on for work for two hours. When I got home she had been out to get two bottles. She also admitted when she got back from football training that she'd been in the pub while it was on and certainly will have had a small wine albeit I didn't see and can't be sure so won't count. She drank a whole bottle and a small glass of a 2nd and was her usual slurring and unsteady self, going on her usual Facebook mission to be belligerent, commenting disparagingly on posts of mine. 10 units.

Tuesday 4th August. Out for a meal. Two large glasses and one small. Snapping again at both kids and then passing out on the sofa after we'd got home at 21:00. 8 units.

Monday 3rd August. I went to the garage to have a tyre fitted at 16:00. Back at 17:30. She'd drunk almost a whole bottle while I was out and had hidden the empty back in the fridge. The 2nd bottle was also chilling. She had a beer while she cooked tea and was wasted, making a mess, staggering around and unable to read the recipe - she tried to make a risotto but gave up on measuring the rice and then decided to cook it first before she added it to the stock. Needless to say it looked awful and she argued with our daughter at tea time as she refused to eat it. She then drank almost another whole bottle. 19 units.

Sunday 2nd August. One large glass in the pub at 17:30, then a whole bottle and a further small glass. 13 units. She was slurring and sleepy long before bedtime.

Saturday 1st August. Hard to know where to start! She was drinking from 13:30 with two large glasses in the pub, followed by a whisky at 15:00. She drank two further bottles and was awful, slurring, unsteady and arguing with the kids. She insisted on watching a German film with subtitles so the kids disappeared upstairs before I was able to convince her. She could barely walk or talk by this point going on and on about how hot it was (it wasn't that hot) in bed despite still wearing most of her clothes. She then tripped over the bed. 25 units.

Hawkeye13

Alcoholism is progressive, and unfortunately, it doesn’t sound like she wants to quit.

I am afraid you cannot “make” her stop with your loving but blunt words or logic. Addiction doesn’t work that way.

I would move ahead with your own place and please take kids with you.

I grew up with an alcoholic mother much like you describe, and it caused lifelong damage to me in ability to trust other people who are supposed to love you, my own self-esteem, and it was a big factor in my own later alcoholism. Serious stuff for formative young souls.

You can love her but not witness her destruction up close. She may get serious about quitting if her family steps back—but don’t assume that.

Some people don’t have a bottom. I did, but my mother didn’t. So sorry for the pain you are suffering. You have given every chance and more.

dandylion

Bid-----alcoholism is progressive, as Hawkeye has just indicated, and it appears that your wife has progressed rather far into her alcoholism----she is under control of the alcoholism at this point.
Your patience and caring and logical, pleading words will have no effect on her---as the pull of the alcohol is the most important force in her life, at this point. It will only get worse. The only thing that would make a difference at this point would be to put the alcoholism into a remission by lifelong adherence to a strong program of complete abstainence---a program like AA, along with a personal counselor.
I say "lifelong" program, because. alcoholism is never cured---only, possibly put into remission. An alcoholic cannot ever drink again if they are to maintain sobriety.

It appears, to me, that you have been giving mixed messages to your wife about your intentions---and, I think you may not, actually. been aware of this. When dealing with an alcoholic, one must have very, very strong boundaries, as they will exploit any sign of weakness or wavering on your part. For example---you have told her how miserable you are and that you don't want to live like this---yet, you continue to remain and promise to continue to be supportive of her. In this case, support translates to enabling (whether that is your intention or not).

You don't have to stop loving her, but you may have to love her from a distance, to protect yourself.

By the way---you can't help her with the alcoholism---it will have to come from within herself with the help of other recovering alcoholics and professional workers.
In recovery circles, we say-----
The 3 Cs----You didn't Cause it. You can't Control it. and You cant;t Cure it.

ChloeRose63

The only thing you need to do is educated yourself and seek help for YOU to understand what YOU need to know about alcoholics. At this point there is nothing you can do for her. Sorry to say but that is reality. Your focus has to be on yourself so you can help your children. Keep posting!
And remind yourself (and re-enforce to the children):"The Three C's" stated in the previous post.

Amaranth

Hello and welcome. I'm sorry to hear about what brings you here. I didn't manage to get to the end of your post but would like to suggest that if you haven't yet tried al-anon that you find a meeting and give it a go.
many years ago when I first started to understand that my husband was an alcoholic a friend suggested I go to al-anon. I was so angry with her "how dare you suggest I am the one with the problem?"
I am forever grateful for that suggestion. Going to al-anon was the best choice I ever made in my life. It didn't stop my husband drinking but I received so much wisdom and support and met people who truly understood what I was dealing with.
You may not be able to help your wife until she is ready but you can help yourself.

SmallButMighty

Bidgdrunner, I'm sorry you are dealing with an alcoholic spouse. I was 42 when I finally left the father of my children, we'd been together 26 years. I understand exactly what you mean when you say you love her but can't spend the rest of your life in anxiety inducing misery. It's the loniest feeling in the world to be in a marriage with an alcoholic. It's devastating to your very core.

There is a book called "Codependent No More", by Melody Beattie. I strongly suggest you pick up or download yourself a copy. Or get the audio book if you aren't a reader. This book changed my life. First by giving me the tools to make my own life more manageable as I tried to remain living with my AXH (alcoholic ex husband) but it's more than that, because the things I learned have stayed with me. I was able to understand so much about so many people in my life, everything just really clicked, not just about my marriage but my family, his family, generations before us, friends and their families.. truely amazing realizations. I carry with me a strength of character, and an understanding now that makes me a better, healthier, much more well adjusted person all because I read this book.

An important thing I came to realize was that my AXH was not actually two different people. He wasn't just drunk him or sober him, he was both those things, and many others, all rolled into one total human being. Good and bad in one package. He is who he is, all parts of him and I had to come to accept that. It made it easier to deal with when I stopped trying to divide him into separate entities.

Learning to set and maintain boundaries for MYSELF was the most important thing I ever did for myself. My first real boundary was, " I will nit engage with him when he has been drinking." I can't tell you how much relief that brought into my life. It did not fix our situation, not one bit, but it did ease me of the burden of trying to reason with a drunk. We can not reason with the unreasonable. We can not understand the inexplicable. It's insanity inducing to try... I know this because I damn near drove myself around the bend trying. And another thing, we should never excuse the inexcusable, yet we do, All.The.Time. It's a trap most of us who love alcoholics get stuck in.

I still loved my AXH when I left him. I still have love in my heart for him to this very day, even though we do not communicate in anyway. I learned it was OK to love him and not be with him. It's better for my life that his chaos is far, far away from me. I'm a much happier, healthier person now... but he is still drinking his health and happiness away. None of my talking, crying, begging, pleading, raging, writing, threatening, or bargaining ever fixed him. He always said he'd shape up, he would- briefly- and then the cycle would repeat... on and endless painful loop. I couldn't make him change his ways, but I could change mine. So I did. I hope you decide to focus on what you can do for YOU, whatever that looks like and means to you.

Glad you found us. I hope you stick around. I know this is miserable stuff you are going through and there is a lot of support to be found here.

LumenandNyx

" ...but should I ever expect her to change?..."

No.

"so at what point do I think I've given enough?"

It's not about thinking you've given enough - it's about deciding you've given enough and then ACTING on that. Thinking and doing are two different things.

It looks to me like she's addicted to alcohol. That means her mind and body are DEPENDENT on alcohol. Stopping drinking is no easy feat.
What her drinking does to you and the kids isn't acceptable, but that isn't what she's thinking about right now (not that I'm inside her brain, but I used to drink all day every day, so I get it).

Drinking alcohol and achieving the affects it gives her is her priority. That's what happens to us. As much as we might think we care about other things and people we love - drinking alcohol is always more important. It becomes - to us - a necessity.

While you can't fix her or make her stop drinking, you can remove yourself and your kids from the drama. That's where your power comes in.

Bidgdrunner

Thanks everyone for taking the time to read this and reply. It seems a bit weird to admit this but I'm feeling really positive today even though she's already passed out next to me in front of the TV after 2.5 bottles of wine. The thing I've always struggled with is the tension between who she is during the day, and who she becomes at night. As a functioning alcoholic she does a professional job very well, but come 17:00 she's a different person. Loving one so much has made me think for years that I can live in hope that I can guide, support, and help the one I don't. And I guess like everyone, feel daunted and overwhelmed by the emotional turmoil that a separation brings, so just end up living month after month, year after year, hoping, against all reason, that things will change.

The one thing I have also realised is I am still allowed to love the person I married, whilst being appalled by her behaviour. I also know, beyond any shadow of any doubt, that there is no way in a million years that I can or will spend my life like this. For my sake, for my kids, that's just impossible.

I'm also reassured that you all agree she has a problem. I know this sounds crazy to admit, and perhaps everyone tries to convince themselves otherwise, but despite all the evidence pointing clearly to the contrary, I've always had nagging doubts about whether she is dependent, and the one day a month she doesn't drink means she's in control, but clearly she isn't. The hidden bottles, the argumentative behaviour, the looking for excuses to go to the shop, the drinking while I'm out, are all very clear signals.

Who would have thought dealing with stuff like this would be so mentally challenging, but it's utterly exhausting.

LumenandNyx

Yeah, those are telltale signs.

As agonizing for you and your kids as this is ...
It's equally, if not more, agonizing for her. Her shame, guilt, feeling of powerlessness (she's not), being distrusted, the lies, the sneaking, the minimizing - it all requires such enormous effort. Not to mention the physical and mental anguish. It's HELL. Pure Hell. And she's got an uphill battle before her. That said - you can still love and support her from a distance. But she's got to do the hard work herself.

Bidgdrunner

yeah, so I guess alcoholics know they're alcoholics then? They're just unable to to do anything about it? Silly really because staggering round reeking of booze and barely able to hold a conversation mean I don't actually need to find the empty bottles she's thrown out the window into the garden, because its obvious she's been drinking. Not even my 11 year old would be convinced by her protestations. Its thr effect on them that I really worry about. A lovely day in the UK yesterday and the pubs are open again (great!) after covid and she always finds time for two large glasses in 45 mins if we ever wander over and both kids moan about mummy 'having more wine'. They've seen her asleep on the sofa far too many times as well. At 11 and 14 now they're no longer little kids, so perfectly aware of what's going on. It breaks my heart, it really does. Not where I expected to end up when I met her 20 years ago,

LumenandNyx

Yes, I believe we alcoholics know - even if we push that fact down with more alcohol we still know.
And YES - we can do something about it. We can stop drinking. It's crazy ridiculously complicated and not complicated at all - at the same time. All we alcoholics have to do is stop drinking. That's it. And the process of doing that is so maddening and painful and brutal, that it actually kills some of us. It's serious sh!t.

I can tell you're in a lot of pain and I feel for you. I really do because if the word powerlessness belongs anywhere - it seems to belong with the family and friends who can't do anything for the addict. You guys can't make our addiction go away. Addicts have to go through the pain of getting sober by themselves.

We can be offered emotional support, but the work of getting sober falls on our shoulders alone.

As for your kids - I drank right in front of mine for years. I got falling down, slurring, black out drunk in front of them at around the same age yours are now. Kids are resilient and while they may not understand - they are likely to forgive.

Hawkeye13

Functioning alcoholic is just a stage of alcoholism, not a type of alcoholic.
Unfortunately, the functioning part can collapse pretty quickly and without warning.
From what you are describing, this may happen sooner than your expect.
Although I agree with Lumen that kids are likely to forgive, because they love their parent, alcoholic or not, I emphasize again that serious, possibly lifelong damage happens when kids grow up in an unpredictable, often hostile environment which describes an alcoholic home nearly all of the time.
You are an adult and must make the hard choices to protect them, because they are powerless in this situation.
Are there any therapy options so your kids can get some outside support? What about for you?
Sending your strength and peace--

Bidgdrunner

powerlessness is a very apt term. When you've invested the majority of your adult life to loving and living with one other person, and grown comfortable together in a way you felt would endure, wonderfully, for ever, and when you're at an age where you really don't want nor need the hassle and aggravation of a split, and the worry of loneliness and financial turmoil, it's surprisingly easy to just learn to live with it, after all, surely she'll realise tomorrow and will do something about it. It also doesn't help that I still very vividly remember a time when I loved her like sunshine on a winter's day, and with kids, and my job, and life in general, it's very easy to bury your head in the sand and just decide you don't want to face it. But, I know how hard I've tried. I know the care and sensitivity and concern and patience I've brought to things over a period of almost five years. I know I've been clear in what I've said to her, and know I've put this in writing so she cannot claim to misunderstand. I also know, and respect your confirmation, that she probably hates what's she's doing, and fully understands the effects it's having on me, and also that this is an illness, not a conscious choice. I also know my only hope is to leave her. In a way I'm lucky, in that our previous split means I am financially able to do so, although right now there aren't any suitable houses in my area, but that's only a matter of time.

BUT, despite all this, and despite knowing how hard I've tried, and knowing none of this is my fault, and that no one on this planet deserves to be treated in this way, I simply don't have the words to say how terrified I am of what happens next.

LumenandNyx

It is scary. For everyone involved.
If only turning our back on our fear would make the problem disappear ...

Bidgdrunner

what I'd give to make that the case!

but I'm also rational enough to know that the only way to make something change is to effect that change myself, and that having exhausted the patient, sensitive, caring approach, to no avail, I am faced with a very simple choice between burying my head in the sand, with all the long term pain I know that will cause, or with leaving her, with all the short term pain I know that will cause. Knowing those facts doesn't, sadly, make the choice any easier though.

silentrun

That letter you wrote was really good. It was right to the point as it's so easy for addicts to minimize their problem. My husband used to comment on my drinking once in a while. It seemed kinda normal to me. I never got into trouble or caused a scene and I mostly did it by myself while everyone else was doing their thing. I figured I wasn't bothering anyone but I'm sure it was annoying at the very least. That's just the way it was and I really didn't get it. I had this moment when the denial broke and I saw it for what it was. Those little comments factored in a little but mostly it was becoming aware myself. Two weeks after my last drink I asked him if he noticed I hadn't drank. He said "yes". I told him I was an alcoholic and the first thing out of his mouth was "no, you're not". Like you mentioned in your post, the spouse can have denial too. In all fairness to him, I did hide a lot of it because of some level I was ashamed.

At first, I wasn't sure I was going to make it out. I tried to be direct to him and tell him if I went back under to take our daughter and get as far away from me as possible. It really is hell in there and I didn't want to drag them down with me.

dandylion

Bid-----none of us will tell you that making a split in your living situation will be a walk in the park. Alas, there are sometimes in life that we must acknowledge our fears and do the right thing, anyway.
We all have more strength, abillity, and courage, inside us, than we ever think that we do, Here is the thing---we never know how much courage we have until courage is our only option.
Here is another thing-----the courage shows up at the very split second that we need it--not usually before.
It is my belief that anyone who has the endurance to live with an active alcoholic, certainly has the strength to live without an alcoholic in their daily lives.
I think one of the most important factors is having enough support with you. That makes a world of difference to have positive support in Your corner. It is a hard road to walk alone.
Can you say, specifically, what kind of support do you already have or plan to attain?
That would be a good first step.
By the way---I know that you have already thought of every possible negative about leaving the situation---but, how about making a list of the positive changes that can come for doing it. I think that would be a beneficial exercise for you.
Remember, too----fears are not necessarily facts. lol---I have a long list of things that I worried so much about that never did come to pass.

Nd819

Welcome Bid, your situation sounds very familiar to mine although I'm going on easily 15 years where I have had a problem with my AH's drinking. He is in the high-functioning stage, holds down a good job, most people would never know he has a problem although I'm sure some of his friends realize he really likes his beer. I've learned to just completely avoid him in the evening, once he starts drinking I just do my own thing and barely engage. It sucks, plain and simple. He's a good man during the day but once he starts drinking and his eyes glaze over and his speech slows down it's like nails on a chalkboard. I've chosen to stay for now so I truly know how difficult a predicament you are in. I can tell you with a good level of confidence though that all the heartfelt talks and letters will have no effect. I know they make me feel better momentarily, I know they make my husband feel terrible, but in all these years it has had zero effect in changing any behavior. Good luck to you, we are certainly here for you.

Bidgdrunner

wow, impressed by your resilience after 15 years! She's very similar I suspect, easy to slip back into a normal routine in the morning when she's sober, and then just to ignore her when the eyes glaze over, the speech slurrs, and she passes out later in an evening. Watched about 90 mins of tv alone last night as she snored away next to me! That's me at least four times a week. It's been a problem for me for 5 years, and while the kids have been younger it was easy to say the balance fell in favour of putting up with it. It's also fair to say that things have got worse during that time, and I suspect like many of us things have gone in cycles, with words leading to a brief respite, usually for 2-3 months in my case until things are right back where they were again.

I know this sounds selfish because, bluntly, it is, but the note I wrote her was mostly for me. I was and am not naive enough to think that she would read it and decide to stop drinking, although I'd have been delighted if that was the case, but mostly it was so I know beyond any shadow of any doubt that despite her protestations to the contrary that I can say I tried, respectfully and sensitively. I'm sure we've all been faced with the grumpiness, defensiveness and aggression that all alcoholics give when questioned about what they do, the crazy justifications, the increasing secrecy. I get the three c's I really do, but despite all that, knowing I did actually try is still important to me, albeit I need to make sure I can live with the disappointment still that I've not succeeded, and with the realisation that this is now my life, until whatever stage when I elect to do something about it. I'm a pretty sensible, level headed and rational person, but even for me this is close to being the hardest thing I've ever faced in my life.

Seren

Over my years of being here on SR and in my own family rife with addiction, I've learned that there are no words that will change my addicted loved ones behavior. No pleading, no tears, no logic, no stern talkings to, no loving, kind, patient support. It has to come from them--the pain of drinking/drugging has to become, for them, greater than the pain of living without their crutch. Their drug of choice. I wish it were different--you have no idea how I wish it were different.

I used to also think of the alcoholics in my family as sort of 2 people--the sober and the drunk. But I've come to accept the reality of them as they are, right now, or I was just tearing myself apart. The drunken behavior is part and parcel of the person unless and until they decide to change that for themselves.

You've found a great community here, and have received a lot of excellent advice! I'm glad you found us, but so sorry for the reasons why. Hang in there!