KnowAFew

I know a guy who has escalated and evolved on the alcoholic path over the years.
Slowly but surely, it has negatively infiltrated all aspects of his life.

A few years ago, he got a DWI charge. Did not impact his career, and was scared straight for a few years. Over time, he sporadically resumed doing it, from time to time.
Then, his ex-wife used alcohol as a factor against him in the divorce. Custody decisions were now in play.
Then, he had an isolated workplace drinking HR discipline action. But, ultimately, he still had his job.

He has lost some things, and life is not the same, but he still has a life, and has come out in one piece.
Despite all this, he has his career, a nice place to live, shared custody, and an active dating life.

Does he just move forward from here, live happily ever after,
or is this part of a larger cycle that has yet to write the final chapter?

Recently, he had a close call that could have led to an arrest.
Luck and timing allowed him to escape scot free with no consequence.

So, he is tempting fate, however infrequently, but he has used up all his last chances.
I believe that one more false move, he is poised to lose it all.
One event can trigger a chain reaction of total destruction of his entire life.
For example, another DWI can lead to jail time, total loss of custody, total loss of career, total loss of income, total loss of residence, loss of basically everything!
This may or may not even impact his successful dating life.

I have communicated this sentiment to him in very direct terms.
From what you've seen in your life, how does this play out?

suki44883

It's hard to tell. There are many just like him, or worse, who finally made the decision to stop drinking for good and were successful with that. There are others who continued drinking and even "losing everything" (jail time, divorce, loss of custody, etc.) didn't make them stop. It all comes down to how badly the addict wants to stop.

LumenandNyx

What Suki wrote. She nailed it.

The only reason I stopped drinking is because I wanted to. Nothing else worked. Nothing.

silentrun

I was scared straight without getting a DWI or anything like that. A person needs to put in some work though with that because it's so easy for an addict to convince themselves they don't really have a problem. Maybe he did and he relapsed anyway but it looks like he didn't attend to the problem back then. He's accepting greater consequences for continuing in his addiction which is not a good sign. My denial broke and I saw the situation for what it was. Up until that point, I didn't connect the dots between what was happening and my alcohol use. He may not either or else he may see using the lesser of the evils. He'll be done when he is internally motivated to stop.

Dee74

HI KnowAFew
You had 2 identical threads so I merged them for you

All I can share is my experience. I kept taking risks, taking chances to keep drinking.
There wasn't much conscious thought beyond I want to do this.

Eventually I had a window of clarity and stepped through into lasting recovery

Some people have those windows and ignore them, others only step through for a little while and return to drinking.

I can't predict someone else's trajectory or adequately explain why that some stop and some do not.

Best wishes to you and your friend.

D

fini

just wondering, KnowAFew, if this is the same man you posted about here ten years ago? if it is, you can see the clear progression, and draw your conclusions from there about how it will likely play out.
i’m glad you spoke with him in clear terms, though it may only have the effect on him of pissing him off.
i’m glad for YOUR sake; he has choices to what action to take to quit if he decides to, and you have choices as to what you will do in relation to him. being clear is a good starting point.

healthyagain

Hello! I am really sorry you are going through this. Alcoholism is devastating for every person involved with an alcoholic. I divorced my ex 5 years ago, who by the way reached the point of dying once I stopped enabling (I mean really, really stopped). After 7-8 episodes of alcohol withdrawal syndrome and numerous hospital visits, he finally got into rehab. But before that, he lost everything: job, home, vehicle, marriage, reputation (not in that exact order). And I lost my heart and trust in people. All I know is that he is still alive, but I've been in no contact since 2017. Just like people in AA are counting days without alcohol, I am still counting days, months, and years.

Whatever your relationship is with this person, know that you are powerless to convince him and affect his drinking in any manner. If he loses it all, he loses it. There is no need for you to explore his rock bottom with him and observe his own destruction sitting in the front row. That is what they told me. My only regret is that I have not left sooner.

velma929

My Dad was a functional alcoholic - until he wasn't.

His one and only DWI came when he was 75 years old, and involved a fatality. He went to jail for a little less than two years. The judge took pity on him and sentenced him to waaaaay less than what guidelines suggested. That judge was voted out of office soon after. (Not just because of Dad, I suspect, but Judge Y was his own man)

KnowAFew

No, different guy.

Thanks, but I'm not going through anything myself, since this is just a guy I know, not a family member or spouse.
There is no impact to my own life, but I feel worried for the guy. There are red flags.

trailmix

There is no point to your worry, he will do what he will do.

You mention:

- A few years ago, he got a DWI charge
- He still drinks and drives
- His wife used alcohol as a factor for child custody
- he had an isolated workplace drinking HR discipline action
- Recently, he had a close call that could have led to an arrest

These are already "losses". Yes, the consequences of his actions may increase as he goes along, but there is already damage to his life.

Alcohol is currently affecting all the major parts of his life negatively. Even if he never actually gets fired or arrested for DWI again. I assume alcohol was a major part of his divorce.

Imagine living with all these things hanging over your head (or even one of them!). Now, he may drink those worries away temporarily but even he must realize where all this is headed.

That's why it is pointless for you to worry about him. He knows, he was there when the police pulled him over, when he heard his ex wife's testimony in court (which probably included how this affects his children). He sat there in HR as they discussed being drunk at work.

Yet he carries on, unfortunately you can probably have no impact on him at all - hence why the worry is wasted energy.

healthyagain

Alcoholism is a progressive disease. I know this may sound vague, but it is also very true: Only he has the power to save himself. No need to pity him or worry about him or try to save him. There is a trap in being worried. When we worry, that means we care. When we care, we may attempt to save. Then we fail and get hurt. I am not saying that you are doing this. I am talking in general. Your relationship to him and the level of closeness are irrelevant. Alcoholism does not care. The man has to face the consequences of his drinking, but before he does, there will be a lot of rationalizing, blame shifting, excuses, denial, losses. However, it is painful to watch, even for mere acquaintances. Where is his rock bottom? No one knows. How it will play out? Is there any expected or desired outcome? Personally, I would lower the expectations, let go and let God.

ItsNotYou2

You could very well be right. This is where you get to draw boundaries for yourself before you are taken hostage. Let your faith be bigger than your worry (easier said than done, but we're all a work in progress)

KnowAFew

Well, since this post last summer, things have spiraled out of control, and things now appear beyond the point of salvaging.
So, to answer my own question, no, he was not scared straight when he had very close calls, and more than a few 2nd chances.
His luck has run out. He now will have serious consequences with regards to legal issues, career issues, etc.
Ironically, now he truly has a real reason to drink.

suki44883

I'm sorry, knowafew. Alcoholism is cunning, baffling and powerful. Most alcoholics don't get scared straight. Many go to prison, lose their jobs and family, lose their homes, yet still reach for that bottle. I, myself, got a DUI, and spent a night in jail. I was horrified. I went through the whole probation scenario, paid thousands of dollars to an attorney, etc. I did stop drinking for a few months, but after the shock wore off, I was right back at it. It makes absolutely no sense, but that is how alcoholism works.

Hopefully, this will be a turning point for him, but to be blunt...he won't stop until he wants to be sober more than he wants to drink. That is something that has to come from deep inside of him and there is nothing anyone can do or say that will make that happen. It's an inside job.

KnowAFew

Once you've lost it all, there really does not seem to be any incentive to stop drinking at that point. Maybe health issues, but I assume it takes decades for health issues to arise.
At that point, why stop? That is the only time it makes sense to me. No job, No family, outcast from society. At that point, nothing left to do but drink, drink, drink.

FallenAngelina

This is what you believe, but the fact is that we can never know for another person how many chances he has left, at what point he will stop drinking or whether he ever will lose it all or what losing it all even means to someone else. We can never know for another person why he would stop or why he would continue drinking. If you doubt it, just ask yourself if anyone else could ever predict for you exactly when and why you (we) will choose to stop hanging out in his life with him.

We never know when someone else will stop drinking, what it will take or when all of the mythical chances are up. There is no rock bottom, there is only a day on which an alcoholic decides that enough is enough. And same for us.

suki44883

Like I said...an addict will only stop when they want to be sober more than they want to drink. Outside influences or loss of comfort really have nothing to do with it. He still drank when he had all those things.

Losing everything is no reason to drink. Many use it as an excuse, but there is no reason to drink other than being addicted and choosing to do nothing about it.