Strength28

Today, I told my alcoholic fiancé that he needs to leave our apartment. I told him I love him, but I love myself and I can only have control of MY actions, so I need separation from this situation. I told him he has to leave.

He says he won’t, needs to be HERE to work on himself and keep moving forward. I said, ok, but I’m telling you I need time, space, and distance from you. It’s not working for us to be together.

He’s currently attending daily AA meetings and Intensive Outpatient Program therapy three times a week. However, he is deeply depressed and struggling. This week alone, he crashed his car and was fired from his job. He’s just a little over a week out of a 7-day detox stay. Today, After his counselor spoke with his mother and I about the concerning behavior we’ve observed, (that he’s drinking again,) his counselor advised him to do an inpatient program. He says he can’t afford it. I offered to pay if it’s truly only the financial part holding him back. (Of course it’s not.) He still said no, he just wants to continue with Outpatient.

Told me he’s so depressed that he fantasizes about jumping off our balcony. He shares his feelings of depression And despair with me, but not his outpatient counselor.

So now that he’s refusing to physically leave our apartment, I know I need to be the one to leave. However, now that he’s made that comment I’m terrified.

Has anyone ever dealt with an extremely scary comment like that before? Advice on how to proceed???

SparkleKitty

As you are not a professional counselor, you are in no position to help him if he is determined to hurt himself. In general, if someone continues with threats of self-harm, the advice is to call 911. If he is serious, he will get the help he needs. If he is manipulating you, and has to deal with the EMTs who show up, he will think twice about trying that again.

The bottom line is that neither you nor your relationship can save him from himself. He is truly spiralling now. Now is when your boundaries need to be their strongest.

Zevin

I would tell him you love him but you know he’s drinking again and isn’t taking the advice of the counselor. He’s also refusing your extremely generous offer to pay for his inpatient treatment.
So, you are moving out.
Tell him his comments about killing himself terrified you, so you are leaving him a phone number for a Suicide Hotline.
If he texts or calls you threatening suicide again, I’d do as Sparkle Kitty suggests. Call 911. Then block his number.
I’d also inform his counselor and mother about his suicidal thoughts.
He’s mentally holding you hostage and it sounds like you are ready to re-start your life without this drama. Good for you and best of luck!

dandylion

Strength------I do agree to call 911 if he shares suicidal thoughts, again. Also, tell his mother and counselor. even if he has not given permission for the counselor to share with you, you are allowed to give information to them.
Another suggestion, since you and he are still living in the same place-----if you should need to call 911---I suggest that you "meet" the responders at the curb. They will appreciate the reason that you called as well as need any pertinent background history that you can supply. Also, stay in the same room with him while the responders are still there----this way, he cannot give them a concocked story, without your input. This limits his ability to try to manipulate them.
It seems to me, that, if his counselor in the outpatient program knows of his depression and suicidal ideations, that they should refer him to a psychiatrist for an evaluation. He may need inpatient treatment for his mental state and, maybe medication.
I suggest that you use every leverage that you have to get him into the hands of professionals.
He may get mad at you for it. So be it. You are placed in a very difficult position and you have to do what you have to do. He can get glad in the same boots that he got mad in.

BlownOne

Call his bluff. He's not thinking about suicide as much as he it trying to manipulate you. The fact that he refuses to leave says he doesn't care about you at all. He cares only about himself and being able to drink. Alcoholics who don't really want to quit will say anything to maintain status quo. How can he drink if he leaves and has to look for a place to sleep and look after himself? That's a total bummer for an alcoholic. I don't mean to sound cold or harsh, but you're being played. Next time he mentions suicide, call 911 and leave the house. Let him deal with it. He'll figure things out real quick.

SmallButMighty

That's exactly how he wants you to feel. That's his way of controlling you and the situation.

I lived with the kind of fear you are feeling for years. It's just awful. My ex husband would play the "suicide" card when he could see I was gaining strength and not playing along the way he wanted me too, for a long time this worked to reel me back in. It worked for him... not so much for me, it made me more anxious each time. My brother and step-son have substance abuse and mental health issues as well, they have both used this same tactic on the people around them as well. All three of them are all still very much alive. It's not uncommon for addicts to use this threat to manipulate people.

I agree with the advice the others have given you, when he says that stuff again, call 911. And I agree with YOU that you will feel better not living in the same space as him. You will be amazed at the clarity you will gain when you aren't all tangled up in all his chaos.

Hang in there, I know this is rough.

trailmix

So he thought about this and weighed it up and said I can't expect Strength to deal with all of this while I'm drinking and I need to proceed with her request for me to leave, at least for a while, to see how it goes.

Or he decided to do whatever works for him, alone and ignore your request and in fact deny it (not that he has the power to do that per se).

It's wrong Strength, it's just wrong, that is a hostage situation not a relationship.

To answer your question, yes, I have had that type of information put to me and after a few times I indeed took the advice here and offered to call 911 or provide a trip to the hospital, on the spot. It was discussed and that was that. Any of us can get to that dark place, doesn't mean we would carry through with it but the absolute BEST thing you can do is seek professional intervention. You are no more capable of dealing with a suicide threat than any other lay-person. That is serious stuff that we have no training in. So while it might seem dramatic it is in fact your best step in this case.

I also agree with Dandylion that you share this information with his counselor and his Mom (today). This is not a secret and it is certainly not your secret.

As you will have to move, I suggest you do this as soon as possible (today?). Do you have a friend or family member that you can stay with while you find other accommodation?

Strength28

It’s been so helpful to read the supportive, insightful responses here as always.

Today, I am writing to provide an update and maybe even vent and continue to gain clarity.

Fiancé checked back into rehab on Tuesday. I’m relieved, shocked, and uneasy all at the same time.

I received a call from his case manager yesterday that AF is committed to 30-40 days this time, instead of just the 7-day detox he did a few weeks ago.

Since I posted last week, things had remained unhealthy and unbearable at home. Had several conversations with his mom and his outpatient counselor, and we also had a group session all together. Counselor suggested he move to the mental health program instead of just substance abuse -still outpatient. We all agreed this was best, but we all also encouraged him to choose inpatient instead. He was a hard no. Has not denied needing help, but of course many excuses as to why he didn’t want to go to an inpatient stay.

Things continued to escalate at home with him secretly drinking, denying it, and being obviously drunk and deeply depressed. He continued to refuse to be the one to leave (at my request) even though he was welcome to stay with his Very supportive mom. So. I left instead. I just couldn’t take it anymore. left him the home crisis line phone number in our county and the number for the recovery center.

I had to return to the apartment the next day to get more things, and I let him know I was frustrated because it is MY name on the lease and I didn’t even ask him to pay his half of July due to detox/hospital bills, yet it is ME who is inconvenienced in moving out. He reluctantly agreed to pack up to go to his mom’s place, while I left four errands. I came back
and he had called the recovery center to go back.

He’s where he needs to be and I’m relieved for that. I can’t help but worry about how it will be this time after he completes his stay. Obviously, I have no control over that, so I am just doing my best to take care of myself this time, and just like him, take it one day at a time.

It’s all so sad. We love each other very much. I know he is struggling, and I know he needs help, and I do believe he knows he needs help. I just hope he can actually do the hard work to really make changes.

trailmix

Good to hear from you.

Well, I hope he is successful in seeking recovery, I really do, but I would always temper that with caution. It's a tricky business.

Now that you have time alone to think, perhaps it is time to focus back on yourself? I'm sure worry about him has been all consuming. He is now surrounded by a group of professionals to help him.

What do you want? Aside from him making a full recovery, of course. What about when he leaves rehab, is he welcome to move back in or should he stay with his Mom for a while? Something to think about. Perhaps he should go to a sober living facility?

His sobriety, or lack of, should not be your "world". I'm sure you have interests, friends and family that have been somewhat neglected while all of this has been going on. You need support too, now is a great time to reach out and talk to those trusted by you. We are here for you too of course. You never want your life to be pivoting on the addiction someone has, true?

What do you enjoy doing? What has fallen by the wayside?

Zevin

Lots of prayers for you and your husband, Strength. It’s a great sign that HE made the decision to go to rehab.
I agree with everything trailmix said—take care of yourself now and rest easy.

dandylion

Strength-----It will be good that you will have a rest from the stress for a while. The rehab time will fly by faster than you think. By the time you get used to him being "away", It will feel like he is on his way back again. It may well be that he has a dual diagnosis---with the depression and repeated suicidal ideation, in addition to the alcohol addiction. In many rehabilitation programs, the family/loved ones are in communication with his case worker about discharge plans, after completion of the program. As trailmix suggested, it would be a good idea, I think, to give consideration to where he will live, after discharge.
Are you assuming that he will come back to live with you ? Do you feel that it will be his right and only choice? I am wondering if, your moving out was the motivation for him to go to inpatient rehab. I, of course, would have no idea. If it was his motivation, and he doesn't become committed to working a lifelong program---and, probably a long period of therapy for his depression and other issues, he is likely to relapse, again. And, his supportive mother won't be able to control him any more than you can.
I imagine that you hate hearing this, of course. One would like to think that a stint in rehab---then all done and dusted. I just think that you need to be aware of the realities of the situation, for your own welfare. It is so easy to become misled by the FOG.
F----fear
O----obligation
G----guilt

I hear you when you say that you love each other. It would be great if :"love" were enough. We all love our alcoholics, at some point, at least. No one can say to stop loving---but, sometimes, the only option is to love from a distance.
Love is not supposed to hurt you. It is supposed to enrich your life---even when conditions are difficult---conditions OUTSIDE of the relationship, that is. Not the dynamics inside of the relationship.
It sounds, to me, like the experience that you have been through has been like a trip through living *ell. Love is not supposed to feel like *hell.

Strength, don't be afraid to put your own welfare first. You are entitled to that.

B1ueEyes

Sorry to hear your going through hard times.
and it is hard I remember so clearly what my axb was like and we’ve been separated a whole now.
o still come on here as it helps understand because I still don’t understand the madness.

When I read something like this a light bulb moment goes off and I think wow just wow I’m still finding things out now !!

My ex was a functioning alcoholic no such thing really but he worked owned his own company liked a drink 2 bottles of red 4 cans of Stella at weekends some weekdays not al the time 2 bottles of red.
things would build up emotional with me and I would let it all out and he would listen (he wasn’t) anyway he’d say sorry I’ll fix the problems all those wheee around him drinking and the next day BANG I’d get a call I feel so down today I feel really depressed I’m having awful thoughts there scaring me I of course was like just breath your be ok are you on and be there worrying and mothering him.

after a long time I noticed the pattern and he would do this every time I found a voice or o was unhappy he would feel he was losing me so he would drag me back in make me think he needed me and he was going to get help did he ?? no all lies 2/3 days later drink would be back out I’d say I thought you wanted help you felt depressed ? His response was naaa F**^ that I’m ok and it would continue.
god they are so clever they really are... the day I walked away was the best decision ever I was free at last

jpeace2

Very very wise points.

Having worked as a counselor in a rehab, I can tell you that one trip does not necessarily a recovered anything make, especially if there is what we call a "dual diagnosis," meaning substance abuse disorder and mental health issues such as depression, anxiety, etc. Treatment is much more complicated because a lot of times one feeds the other. Many times people with mental health issues are self-medicating with substances, which in turn unfortunately can make their depression or anxiety worse. Vicious cycle.

Focusing on your peace, safety, and needs is the best thing you can do for yourself right now. I bet trailmix is right on the money wondering if there are things you liked or needed that have been pushed to the side or forgotten completely during his crisis mode. I know my last few days have not been focused on me, but on a lot of "what if" and "what does this or that mean" and the dreaded "see, I was right, I knew it" which was my clue to come back here and figure out what I need to keep ME sane and healthy. Right now it is the facility's responsibility to keep your guy safe and they are trained to do so. Trust me, I'm a former counselor and I couldn't "save" my ex and I know I can't save or protect this current guy either. He needs to choose to get help for all of his issues, and I am happy to be supportive if he does. But if he doesn't, I have to be strong enough to walk away or at least detach enough that his crazy doesn't make me crazy too.

Tough work, but it's worth every second.
JP

LumenandNyx

"Told me he’s so depressed that he fantasizes about jumping off our balcony. He shares his feelings of depression And despair with me, but not his outpatient counselor.

So now that he’s refusing to physically leave our apartment, I know I need to be the one to leave. However, now that he’s made that comment I’m terrified."

I wouldn't threaten to call 911, I'd just do it. And when the EMT show up, I'd tell them what you just shared with us - that he shares his feelings of depression with you, but not with h is outpatient counselor. That speaks volumes. He's hiding things from the counselor because he knows the counselor will take action.

Your leaving is a brilliant idea and my guess is that the best time to do it would be while the EMT are there. Also - it'd probably be best not to tell him where you're going. You - based on what you wrote - seem to be his crutch. His OUT. His EASY WAY. His box of Band-Aids.

Inpatient sounds like a good idea but it won't do any good for him to go there if he's not done drinking. I've been to nine inpatient treatment centers over 15 years and didn't quit drinking after any of them. I finally quit when I wanted to. But that's me. What this sorta boils down to is that his life is his. Your life is yours. You can only go live yours. You can't live his for him or make him want anything. And I know that sucks, but it is what it is.

Maybe once you disappear for a long stretch, he'll come around. Just don't count on it ...

jpeace2

This. This right here is EVERYTHING and so often is where we partners of As get hung up. It's important for me to check my motivations for doing things--always. Am I leaving because it's the best thing for ME or am I secretly hoping he'll fall apart without me and come crawling back, suddenly willing to change when he never was before? Am I setting boundaries because they are healthy for me or because I'm trying to manipulate him into bending to my wishes?

A very hard thing for me to hear was something our dear Laurie said to me many years ago. Basically she said that we as codies end up using the same behavior we detest in our addicts to try and take back our power, and it never works. Logically I knew this, of course....the pleading, begging, promising we'll be more supportive, understanding, etc....and then finally the manipulation. Ohhh the manipulation. We become every bit as good at it as they are. Going no.contact hoping that will make them chase us, prove they love us, not because it's how we save our sanity--that was one of my favorites and it backfired on me every time. I ended up feeling worse and more worthless because he didn't chase me. I'm learning yet again to always check my motives and make sure I'm acting in MY best interests first.

Loving ourselves is so important, yet we waste all that on people who can't accept or appreciate it. This makes my heart hurt. Hang in there, you're going to be okay.