pizza67

So....poop hit the fan. He had been “limiting” drinking since the fall. Today a verbal fight quickly escalated into the teens calling him an abuser. I couldn’t get a word in edgewise as usual. So that of course means I didn’t “defend” him.

So he went out, bought hard stuff, told me that he is divorcing me because “he’s an abuser and doesn’t want to hurt us” (being manipulative there, not really remorseful), got drunk, spent the whole evening telling me he’s “dead” because we “killed him”, and that he is going to spend his time on booze and porn until he can leave. I suggested he instead try sobriety and actually listening to us to try to understand why people are upset at him, and make a commitment to permanent change. He said he tried to change but nothing was good enough for us.
(He had kept being rigid, controlling, and being irritating and picking fights when he drank). I told him pride is more important to him than we are and that he is looking for an excuse to leave. He has said it is unlivable here based on how the kids are hateful towards him and that we are in a “zombie marriage.”

I have been nauseated and unable to eat all afternoon and evening. I am now staying in another room as I can’t stand the idea of watching him drunkenly masturbate. I can’t sleep. I swear that he will destroy me. There will be no “amicability” despite his front of some.

I don’t think I can survive this.

Dee74

Hi Pizza

I don't get to read down here very often so I don't know your back story - but if he thinks it's unliveable etc - why doesn't he leave? I'd be helping him pack....

It sounds like he's doing whatever he wants - whether its decent or not,
It sounds unliveable for you.

D

Ariesagain

Is there somewhere else you can stay tonight?

Are you and the kids safe?

You don’t have to do anything tonight other than keep you and your children safe. Lock doors, go to a hotel, go to a friend or relative...

One step at a time, yes?

Sleepyhollo

You can beg and plead him to get sober but it won’t do any good unless he himself wants to get sober for himself. You know that it is destroying yiur marriage and his relationship with his kids and it is hard to understand that he doesn’t see it. But that’s addiction for you. All they think about is themselves and it is everyone else fault that he is drinking of course. There is also no sense in trying to discuss things with him or trying to talk sense into him while he is drinking. I had a very important with my ex several years ago about his porn use as it was affecting our sexlife. He basically minimized it because after all porn is normal (and it can be if it isn’t interfering with your actual sex lie with your spouse....) and basically turned it around on me. So I never talked about it again. As it turns out, I finally had the guts to bring it up in marriage counseling after he was sober. He had zero recollection of ever having had that discussion.
Tell him he is free to leave, (as hard as that is) or you may need to seek refuge yourself at least temporarily if he isn’t willing to budge. This is a very unhealthy nd toxic living situation for you and the kids. And if he shows no sign of wanting to seek sobriety for himself it might be time to tell him to find other living arrangements until he decides to get clean. He is going to drink no matter what so if you are thinking that it is better for him to stay there because you somehow think he might drink less...it really isn’t of any use. But at least if he is drinking away from the home you and your kids don’t have to witness it. And it might be a good idea to talk to an attorney even if you are not ready to divorce just so you know where you’re at and what things you might need to do to protect yourself and your kids (like what happens if he drives drunk and kills someone....that’s going to affect the whole family,
im sorry for what you are having to deal with. Are you in counseling? You will survived this but it will be tough especially if he doesn’t want to get clean and get out of the house. Take Care if you and the kids, there is nothing you can do for him. Take control where you have it which is with you and the kids. Get counseling, go to alanon. You met even call the domestic violence number be sue even if he is not physically abusing you (yet) emotional abuse is just as damaging if not more...you just can’t see the damage. They might have resources for you as well. You and your kids deserve mich better. Don’t let him drag you down with him.

pizza67

I don’t keep him here to control his drinking. I dread facing the consequences for the narcissistic injury of divorcing him, including potentially battling for custody with my youngest.

trailmix

pizza, there is always a balance. There are the consequences of staying and there are the consequences of leaving. Only you can decide when that balance is breached, when staying is too dangerous (mentally at least) for you and your children.

I know you feel guilty, but there is help out there for you, have you contacted any DV organizations? www.domesticshelters.org

SparkleKitty

I'm sorry it's come to this, but it does seem abundantly clear now that there will be no talking him into reasonable behavior. As happens with alcoholism, it is progressing. Abstinence is one thing, but recovery is an entirely different thing.

You and your children deserve to not have to live everyday with the consequences of his choices.

CoachP

Pizza, I was devastated reading your initial post. I 100% understand that "trapped" feeling. I would absolutely believe the previous posts and take that advice. Save yourself and your children. It may take years to undo the emotional trauma being dealt by your AH, to you and your children. My heart goes out. Not sure how a RA (raging alcoholic) gets custody in court, but i understand your fear. God bless you. Safety first.

SmallButMighty

I remember feeling that way. It's just all so utterly defeating. You and your kids are stuck in a very unhealthy cycle with a very sick man. Arguing with him will only escalate an already crappy situation. I understand that you are all frustrated with each other. That won't change since your husband is not interested in true recovery. I lived in that cycle for years, it absolutely depleted me, mind, body and soul.

Rarely do I ever encourage people to leave their spouse, but pizza, I so badly want for you to take your kids and get away from the chaos. It's not good for any of you, especially with everything going on with your one son. You all need some time in a calm space so that all of you can have your anxiety levels can come down. You will be able to think and plan more clearly when you are not in the thick of the madness.

Take care my friend, I'm worried about you and your precious boys

pizza67

So I get this thread:
—promising sobriety isn’t him being honest because he might slip
—He can say he seeks to reduce it to zero once whatever is in the house is gone
—doesnt want to announce this publicly because we will then use it as an excuse to blame him for all family issues

i think this is QUACKING BS. What do you think?

trailmix

Translation:

- I have no intention of quitting
- I have no intention of quitting
- Don't tell anyone because - I have no intention of quitting

quack quack quack

CoachP

Not a laughing matter, but that did make me chuckle TM! You are absolutely correct!! Pizza, trailmix is SPOT ON! No sincerity in his thread what so ever. I'm sure that hurts, but seems the writing is on the wall. Look out for yourself my friend.

pizza67

Yeah, that’s what I thought. So, what I said was...sounds like you’re not ready to change. Ready looks like chucking the booze in the house. NOW, choosing on your own to quit and letting us know, and not building in for slips. I’ve said go get help but of course he refuses. Was thinking of sending him the Rational Recovery ultimatum since he is mocking what he thinks is my “AA BS”. Look, if it’s an addiction, get help. If its a moral choice then stop! What else is there?

trailmix

It can just be a choice, period. Now, there are ins and outs, it's an addiction so quitting can be very hard, there are changes in the brain, etc etc etc, you know all this stuff.

But at the end of the day, you are still trying to control this. How long have you been trying? How's that going? A long time and it's not going anywhere?

You can't have this your way, it's not in your power, never was. He will quit when he is ready, or perhaps never. You didn't Cause it, can't Control it and can't Cure it, that is the truth.

What exactly are you fighting FOR?

ErinGoBragh

I realize you are trying to tell him the cold hard truth about his addiction, but this method likely won't work. Regarding the ultimatum, are you 100% committed to following through? The thing is, ultimatums don't work with alcoholics.

Do you think it's time to step back and leave him to do exactly what he wants?

SparkleKitty

Pizza, when is it enough for you to say "I have tried everything and he still does not want to change." If you want a different life, you are going to have be the one to make changes. Full stop.

pizza67

What I mean is if he denies he is an addict, then
he is saying this is what he chooses to do, despite our being hurt by it. So if you cannot control it then get help. If you can but you choose not to, then choose to. Or leave. I was going to say ok you deny you’re addicted—so you choose to drink. We choose to not live with you drinking. Pick one.

As far as what I am fighting for—I don’t know. Brutal honesty: I don’t want to be financially destroyed and I don’t want my youngest to have to be with him alone ever. And I don’t want to deal with his ******** as will happen via divorce process. But he is already drowning us in BS so I guess that last one is a moot point.

trailmix

I understand, but from what you have written previously, I understood that you have pretty much already said stop drinking, it's hurting all of us and he has chosen not to.

The choices you are talking about are one and the same. The choice to quit, whether an alcoholic or not, is his and his alone. He can choose not to because it's too hard or he doesn't want to or what will his friends say or he "needs" it, doesn't matter, the result is the same. If he doesn't know by now that you are unhappy with his drinking, he never will.

You can certainly give him an ultimatum, but be prepared to back that up with action.

As for damage to you financially or with visitation, you can put sobriety testing in the agreement or attempt to. What makes you think he is actually going to be banging down the door for visitation?

pizza67

Because he is a narcissist who blames me for his failed marriage and out of narcissistic injury, will try to take my child from me in order to hurt me.

trailmix

He can't take your child from you.

If you believe him to be a true narcissist, then you have researched this. No, you can't "win" with a narcissist but they can be managed. Also, lots and lots of divorces are not peaceful things. There is a divorce approximately every 36 seconds in the U.S., every day. You need help, you are not alone. People at the domestic violence centers hear many stories like yours every single day. They know the stories, they know the resources, they know which lawyers will work best with you and they know what resources (including financial) are available to you. Take the help, that is their job, that is what they have chosen to do, to help people just like you that truly need it.