BrandyC

It's nearly 6am and I have not been able to get to sleep.

I have 72 days clean and sober with AA being my core program.

I've been in AA for 3 years and have found myself stuck at the God/Higher Power concept since day 1.

I want this program and sobriety so bad but I feel like I am doomed if I cannot find a power greater than myself.

I have tried to pray time and time again but feel so stupid and like I'm just talking to myself.

I don't feel this connection with this God that so many people in AA talk about.

Am I one of the unfortunates, as mentioned in How It Works, who is unwilling or unable to completely give myself to this program?

Last week I felt so content with all of the unknowns but this week I feel like I'm just kidding myself and not feeling very confident in the program and my ability to adhere.

I guess untill I get an answer I'll keep playing this Joe and Charlie tape on the "We Agnostics" chapter on repeat.

Dee74

Hi and welcome Brandy
I'm not in AA so I'll leave it for others to respond with, hopefully, first hand experience
I do know there are agnostic AA groups tho - 'AA agnostica' is one
and we do have a secular 12 step forum right here at SR,
https://www.soberrecovery.com/forums...step-recovery/
so it's not a totally untravelled path
Hope you get some sleep
D

brighterday1234

God/higher power simply needs to be something more powerful than humans e.g. pretty much everything haha. E.g. the way of the universe. Surrender yourself to this and accept everything as it is. You’re now no longer running on self-will and let life/recovery/sobriety flow. Even if you’re a stern believer in pure science this philosophy fits and allows the program to work. This is obviously my experience.

My experience is also that prayer needs to be personal to oneself and so do this and allow it to evolve in its own way.

sugarbear1

We ask someone to help us to be our sponsor.
Sponsors help guide us through the 12 steps.
The 12 steps help us to find a power greater than us.
So, find a sponsor and work the steps. Maybe stop insisting there is no god and be willing to believe in a power greater than you.
Attending meetings is barely a third of what we do do.

turniptheheat

Have you ever read, "Came to Believe"? There are lots of people in the program that have struggled with the concept of a higher power or God, so you're not alone. Sometimes it takes years. However, even if you're willing to believe just a little, that's just enough. It's a process. Don't give up!

fini

"I want this program and sobriety so bad but I feel like I am doomed if I cannot find a power greater than myself."
hello BrandyC,
likely you do not believe you are the greatest power out there? that there is seriously no power greater than you?
there is no need to identify any specific power greater than you, or to even find it; the thing is to be willing to search.
i don't have "this connection with this God", and will suggest to you that "this God" need not be yours. whatever you think people mean when they say "this God".
if you want this program, it is yours for the doing.

DriGuy

Find the strength in yourself to solve your problem.&nbsp; You don't need to be an ultimate power to do this or have one to do it for you.&nbsp; Just make good choices.<br>

BeABetterMan

<br><br>Brandy, just curious, who do you think created the universe? And if you believe in the big bang, do you believe we are all here randomly? Whenever I feel like dope while praying I think about all of the things that make the universe unbelievable. All of the stars. I think about all of the creatures on earth. I think about the human body and how it works. I think about the true love I have for my children. These are all things that I struggle to explain without acknowledging a higher power. Also, have you ever been in a scary or desperate situation and instinctively asked God for help? Why do you think that is? I'm not baiting you into answering these questions a certain way. These are just questions I ask myself whenever I'm feeling like maybe the whole God concept is BS and that I'm really just talking to myself when i pray. I've also envisioned or conceptualized God as a part of my spirit. That voice that tells me what's right or wrong. That makes me guilty or proud.<div><br></div><div>Just food for thought...dunno.</div>

Surrendered19

I am not a believer in any sort of deity, but when I consider how much we do not understand about how we got here, when we'll be gone, how many other worlds must be out there, or maybe there aren't any, how even the smartest scientists who can see the furthest speak of the "known" universe and freely admit that infinite space is a concept they do not understand. There are so many questions and the wonder of it all leading us to be conscious beings here for such a brief time. All of those things, and much more, constitute my higher power and I have no trouble believing that there are many things greater than me.

DriGuy

Brandy, it sounds to me like you are trying hard to fit in, which is what I first tried to do when I entered AA. Fitting in is OK, but what we all really need to do is stay sober, and there is no one way that must be done. AA is just one program of many and created by a person with a deeply religious conviction. Granted it is popular and reaches many with it's religious orientation, but it does not and cannot reach everyone. I wrestled with the God thing for a long time in AA, before I came to terms with myself and recognized that I just don't have that belief, and advice that I should "Fake it until you make it" is something that only makes sense to a predisposed believer. The chapter on Agnostics in the Big Book, was of little help to me. I suppose it's because it was written by a believer who had a rather limited perspective on agnosticism. Little of that chapter rang true for me. I have found that I cannot force myself to believe anymore than I can force myself not to believe. You do or you don't, and what was more important to me was the soul searching I did in AA that led me to recognize my true self and my own lack of belief. This is not a personal defect. Simply put, it is honesty (to thine own self be true). And what I needed was to move on from there.

AA did help me a lot, not the God stuff, but the nightly contact with sober people was a great relief from the bars, especially on weekends. To me, meetings were a celebration of sobriety, and a place to learn and share helpful tips. Take the higher power out of the steps, and many of them actually reflect much of my own life philosophy. Of course I don't repeat them daily, I just recognize them, and use them when needed, and I practice them in my own words on my terms. I never had a higher power. I entertained possibilities, but it all seemed rather contrived, whether it be the proverbial door knob or the universe. Alcohol was my problem to be solved on my own, and I'm coming up on 25 years sober. And those have been content and happy years, continually grateful to be sober. I still have problems to deal with, but they are far fewer in numbers and frequency, and don't seem so overwhelming. And even at the worst moments, I can always be happy about facing them without being drunk.

You can be your own person. You don't have to be the person someone says you need to be. Be flexible, and stay out of the ruts. If something isn't working, do something different. You've been sober three years. This didn't happen by being a contrarian. You did it yourself, and you can take pride in what you've done so far. And by this time, I don't think I need to tell you that there is lots more to do. If you are lucky, there will be many years of lots more to do. You never need to stop growing.

I wish you the best.

awuh1

I would strongly recommend a story called "AN ARTIST'S CONCEPT ". Its by the person who designed the dust cover for the first edition. It's his story from that edition. You can find it near the bottom of the page here ----> http://www.barefootsworld.org/origbbstories.html Lots of other good stories in that edition as well.

silentrun

You can do this BrandyC. You are doing it. 72 days is amazing. You are not destined to use again.

I'm not in AA or a believer but I felt the connection about 9 months in. It takes a while to heal up and come back online. There are people willing to help you both in AA and here. Can you use the social support of people who made it out as a higher help outside yourself? That's a connection.

RecklessDrunk

God could and would if he were sought.

I don't think you would have created this thread if you were unwilling and unable to give yourself to the program. Those unfortunates are incapable of being honest with themselves. At least from your post, I sense a lot of willingness.

I've got great news, you don't have to figure this out today. Just stay sober and start chipping away at this issue. Keep seeking a higher power of your understanding. Especially as you get sober it will come. I think you may find inspiration in things as time goes on.

I came across some Taoist writings and interpretations and I found them pretty interesting. If you read up on some of this it might point you in the right direction. It's more of a philosophy than religion but it may be helpful.

BeABetterMan

One more thing I heard in a meeting the other day Brandy and RD reminded me of it. The book says if he “were sought” not if he “were found”. Seek.

TiredCarpenter

Hi BrandyC:

Welcome!

There are agnostic AA groups. Agnostic 12 steps and humanist 12 steps.

The AA agnostics of the SAN Francisco Bay Area cite steps 2 and 3 as this:

2. came to believe that we needed strengths beyond our awareness and resources to restore us to sanity.

3. Made a decision to entrust our will and our lives to the care of the collective wisdom and resources of those who have searched before us.


Ever notice that ...as we understood him....is underlined or in italics. It is the only sentence in ALL of the chapter that is. Understand, or don’t, believe in Him, her, it, us ..... shouldn’t matter. What matters is that we are human with fears, pains, sorrows, hopes, striving, motivations, etc, that can rely on other humans that have been through it.

So glad that you’ve posted here.

You’ll find a TON of caring support.

Check in often.

stickyone

When I was in my 20s I entered my first treatment center , I was in a clean and sober living house and was able to get 6 months clean the longest in my life. I was in a AA group and my sponsor was very religious. I am on day 2 from my addiction to opiates. It's been around 8 years since I have drank. During my struggle with addiction I blamed God or my higher power for everything I lost in life. I felt like he owed me everything, I don't go to church or belong to any type of religious group now. But with my ups and downs I look at the people I've lost in my life and say to myself they would not want me to live life suffering. Not sure if this helps but congrats on your days of sobriety.

Buttery

I wouldn’t worry too much about a higher power.

I swear half of the people in the rooms say they have one just to fit in and be part of AA as acceptance of a higher power is core to the 12 steps.

main things to worry about is service, listening to others and sharing. If a higher power comes great, if it doesn’t it will not stop you from drinking again. That is down to you. I found sharing that I didn’t have or want a higher power helpful in the rooms. A lot of people snubbed the idea but others told me they didn’t either. I always feel that AA does have an element of who is the best AA member competition going on constantly. Whether it’s because they preach about a higher power, how long they have been sober or how much they do for other members. You just need to do what feels right for you. One size does not fit all.

And here I am, stone cold sober for a lot longer than I ever imagined I would be in my life, still no higher power and havnt been to AA (I do still think it’s a good place when you need it though) in months. For me something came into my life that means more than me than anything else and I intended to keep it that way.

Aellyce

I am agnostic but have dabbled in various spiritual systems throughout my life out of curiosity and to see if/how they could enhance my life and/or show me something I was not aware of. The OP reminds me a bit of my experience with the church in my mid teens, when I started to be interested in "big questions" and joined a local Catholic congregation to see if I would find answers on that path. I stayed for a couple years, really engaged and tried, but never felt the connection most of my peers in the community seemed to... so eventually left to look elsewhere. I am often quite an individualist but also think there are many things in the Universe greater than an individual, most things in fact. And many forces greater than humans as a species, for sure, including things we just do not understand, do not have access to easily. The big difference here is that there is a life/death kind of problem (alcoholism) to be resolved, not just a set of intellectual/moral dilemmas that one can take or leave.

Do you find AA helpful in any way for your recovery? Not to be nitpicky, but I can't help and notice "I've been in AA for 3 years" and "I have 72 days clean and sober with AA being my core program"... Do you think the program and/or community works for you? Asking especially given that you are stuck at one aspect for so long and cannot seem to find a way around it. Like others said, the Higher Power can be anything you want really. Is your AA group overly religious perhaps, so that you are not exposed to alternatives? I've heard many simply describe the program of AA and the community as their Higher Power. That's also how I took it when I tried to work the 12 steps in the past, mainly because any other force in Nature or the Universe I otherwise very much believe in seemed irrelevant to resolving my alcoholism. But tools and programs designed for addiction recovery are very relevant.

Have you explored other groups and programs as well? You would not need to decide between them and pick just one. I think most methods can complement pretty nicely and when people say otherwise, it is mostly just their personal agenda or projection. When I attended recovery meetings, I usually juggled them and tried to take from each what seemed the most useful and compatible and didn't worry about the rest.

thomas11

I'll throw in my 2 cents, I was agnostic my entire life (I'm 52) and have a science background, so it made sense. 5 years ago it all changed, I will spare you the details but I changed entirely. Now, I don't necessarily believe in god, a robe wearing white man with long hair and a beard, but I am convinced there is a greater power than ourselves. A much greater power. I don't have a clue what it is, but I look around and i think of my life...and it has to be. Just has to.

nez

I don't believe in a deity that will do things for me. I do believe in a power that will help me by guiding me if I pay attention. Call it intuition, soul, innerconnectedness, whatever you want, I believe it is there for me to access if I seek to improve my conscious contact with this power that is already in 24/7 contact with my subconscious.