baby is here

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Old 02-24-2020, 05:47 AM
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baby is here

I apologize for not contributing more to this forum - you all were a huge help to me last summer when I was struggling with FOO issues, and I haven't really engaged much since then. But I have been lurking and reading posts...F&F and Newcomers has helped me get through some rough patches. I feel like I have a better understanding of this vile disease, and I surely feel less alone.

Long story short...my father is an alcoholic who does not admit that he has a problem. He was "high-functioning" for most of my childhood, with things starting to unravel more after I had left for college. My youngest brother is also an alcoholic and lives with my parents. He nearly died in 2017 from multiple organ failure, and it was only at this point that my other brother and I found out about his struggles. My parents had worked hard over the years to hide it, and even after my brother was admitted to ICU, they continued to lie and try to keep family away. My mother is very controlling and codependent and continues to enable both my brother and father. I think she may have problems of her own abusing anti-anxiety meds.

Anyway...I now live hundreds of miles away from my parents and the rest of my FOO. I decided two years ago to cut contact with my parents and alcoholic brother...their insanity and lies were more than I could handle. They are still drinking and trying to hide it...I heard from my aunt last summer that my brother was again back in the ICU for treatment of more liver-failure-related symptoms. Four months ago I also decided to go NC with other family members, when they refused to stop pressuring me to reengage with my parents. This has been really, really hard for me but absolutely worth it. Cutting them all out has kept me sane, if sad and guilt-ridden. I also got some counseling...and I've been reading this forum, which has been tremendously helpful.

So, not an ideal situation, but manageable (and ultimately healthy) for me. The difficulty now is that I have just had a baby...and none of my FOO (except my healthy brother) knows. I kept them all in the dark. Yes, I know how this sounds. But it was absolutely the right decision for me. Being pregnant made me feel vulnerable, and the last thing I needed was my family's toxicity while I was trying to keep myself healthy and strong. I am super ashamed to admit this, but it also sometimes felt like satisfying vengeance...I am so angry with all of them, especially my mother, and it has felt gratifying somehow to deny them the happiness of a grandchild. It makes me feel sick to say this...I shouldn't feel this way. But it is how I feel.

So now baby is here. I am not what you would call the "motherly" type, but it is hard to describe how much I love this little guy. He can't stay a secret forever. And he has given me a tiny bit of insight into how hard it must be for my mother to have a son who is self-destructing. I'm still angry with her for being weak and enabling him...but I see now how the love you have for your own child can be literally overwhelming. My healthy brother thinks that once my parents know about the baby, it might inspire them to change their ways. I don't hold out much hope of that. But I do know they would love him. I just don't want them to poison him...or me. I'm incredibly grateful that I escaped my FOO, and the thought of reengaging seems kind of awful. And somehow dangerous.

So...how do I tell them? What kind of boundaries do I set? NC has been a godsend, but it has also allowed me to avoid boundary-setting, which has always been a challenge for me. From reading this forum, I have learned that my FOO is "enmeshed", and I have no interest in getting sucked in to the insanity again.
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Old 02-24-2020, 06:00 AM
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Congratulations on the birth of your son! Becoming a parent is both a precious and eyeopening experience!

Originally Posted by ElizabethReed View Post
I'm incredibly grateful that I escaped my FOO, and the thought of reengaging seems kind of awful. And somehow dangerous.
My suggestion would be to trust your instincts.

Nothing you say or do is going to change the way your enmeshed family members behave. Those kind of sick tendrils run deep and people have to want to change. From what you share, your family has no desire to change things. Babies aren't magic little humans that make people behave or else none of us would have addicted family members...

If it feels right to contact your parents, do that.
If it feels wrong to contact your parents, don't do it.

Ask yourself if any of your reasons for contacting them would be due to the F.O.G. ( fear,obligation, guilt) that so many of us from dysfunctional families tend to carry with us. Do what you will from the information you glean from your answers.

You have bigger, better, stronger instincts now that you are a mama bear... I'd listen to them, whatever it is they say to you.

Congrats again! Enjoy this time, it goes by so fast!
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Old 02-24-2020, 07:54 AM
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Originally Posted by ElizabethReed View Post

I am super ashamed to admit this, but it also sometimes felt like satisfying vengeance...I am so angry with all of them, especially my mother, and it has felt gratifying somehow to deny them the happiness of a grandchild. It makes me feel sick to say this...I shouldn't feel this way. But it is how I feel.
Congratulations on the new baby!!

There are a lot of reasons to justify what you are doing, but vengeance shouldn't be one of them. Vengeance will hurt you far worse than it will hurt them.

I'm going to see if I can figure out what "FOO" means. I'm sure it means family and something. LOL.
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Old 02-24-2020, 08:36 AM
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FOO = Family Of Origin
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Old 02-24-2020, 01:19 PM
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I keep tons of things to myself. I don't consider it vindictive, or even being secretive. Everyone is on a need to know basis. There's just an awful lot that isn't anybody else's business.

If you swing by for a visit on the second Wednesday of the month from 4 pm to 5 pm so everyone can coo at Baby Snooks, so be it. If you only want to send an email of Baby next to your high school saxophone, or a huge teddy bear or the Maine coon cat you adopted, along with a short paragraph on benchmarks he's reached, you can do that instead. Or you can do nothing. The less crazy in his life, the better.

I would err on the side of setting the family's expectations really low.
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Old 02-24-2020, 01:24 PM
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Congratulations on your new baby!
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Old 02-24-2020, 02:35 PM
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I see a psychologist every 6 weeks or so. She, and the guy before her- usually just sat and listened, nodded and I went on my way. I saw a questioning look in my psychologists face last session- 'why do you come here'?.

I told her it is because I can speak what I feel, my doubts, my uncertainties, my fears- as well as the positive stuff and what I plan to do before the next session to work on me. An objective- not in my personal circle of humans to talk to. That is very healing for me.

Perhaps talking to someone for you may help- a counsellor, GP, whoever- who is in impartial and outside your personal circle of humans.

Congrats on being a mum.

A blessing.

My support to you.
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Old 02-24-2020, 06:29 PM
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Congratulations on your baby - it's wonderful having a child you adore.

Your baby is not a secret, unless you're keeping him hidden in the attic lol. Your FOO may not know about him, but that's a by-product of NC.

Are you feeling the urge to share him because having a baby is often a family event? I don't think he will change anything and your family will probably be just as toxic to you, but you've been there before and you know what you're getting in to.
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Old 02-24-2020, 10:33 PM
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Don't feel obligated to break no contact because of your baby. If you want to introduce your child to the family be prepared to have well thought out boundaries in place. And as far as your brother thinking a baby will change an A's behavior I can tell you know that is just wishful thinking. My EXAH repeatedly told me if we had a baby together he would change. Even in the depth of my co-dependency I knew not to trust that.
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Old 02-25-2020, 05:33 AM
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Thank you all for these really helpful and supportive responses. I've arrived at motherhood rather later in life and feel very grateful for this chance...it is indeed a blessing. I feel this overwhelming need to protect my little son, to break the stranglehold that alcoholism seems to have on the men in my family...my grandfather (died of it), my father, my brother...I look at baby and think: no way, I will make sure that he will be free of this.

SmallButMighty - thanks very much for your insights. I've read many of your previous posts, and I get the impression that you come from a somewhat similar situation with your FOO. The sick tendrils do indeed run deep.

I'm surprised at the responses that suggest that maintaining NC is still perfectly fine. I hadn't actually considered not saying anything at all. Yes, FeelingGreat, I guess I do see this as a family event...although, as trailmix has wisely said in the past, my family is not like other "normal" families...they are not the family I wish they were. So probably I need to reframe this in my mind somehow.

Thank you PhoenixJ for the reminder of the importance of counseling. I've let that (along with other self-care activities) go with baby's arrival but would surely benefit from getting back to it.

My biggest concern about sharing this news is that my family will immediately trample any boundary I set...for example, parents showing up on our doorstep unannounced and uninvited and demanding to see the baby. This is a very real possibility. I'm already having issues with my brother (the healthy one) and his girlfriend, who bought plane tickets to come stay with us next weekend, without asking me first whether it would be ok. Of course I know they're just excited to see the baby, but man, I'm still recovering from surgery, and sleep deprivation with an infant is really tough. This is how my family is...disrespectful, thinking they know what's best and ignoring my wishes...add in the drinking and it is just a toxic mess.

No, we're not hiding baby in the attic (lol). Even if I don't tell my family, they will eventually find out, no doubt about it. If I take the initiative and inform them first, will that give me more control over how it plays out? Can I insist that my parents show evidence of seriously pursuing recovery before I allow them contact with baby? Is that fair/reasonable for a boundary? All these questions in my head...
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Old 02-25-2020, 06:57 AM
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You are right ER, there are definite similarities in our familiar situations. One of the biggest, glaring ones is the boundary issue. I think dysfunctional, codie/alkie families like ours don't understand boundaries. I certainly did not. I was 40 before I even started considering the importance of boundaries and it took me a couple years after that to raise and enforce my own. It wasn't hard to know what my boundaries were, it was a whole lot harder to learn to enforce them. It took practice.

You realizing your family doesn't respect boundaries is important. Its apparent that your brother and his spouse haven't considered that house guests may not be in your best interest at the moment. He wasn't raised in a family that respects boundaries, he isn't going to think to make those kind of considerations. He will have to learn about them the same way you did. You may the catalyst to him getting educated about such things.

It boggles my mind when people don't consider other people when they choose to impose themselves into other people lives or activities. This just happened to us. We have a yearly trip planned where we attend a convention for work (and squeeze in some fun) every year, MIL just asked for the dates so that she could join us. She didn't ask if we'd mind she just assumed we wouldn't mind her coming along. Now, we have no issues with my husband's mother, we enjoy her company, she isn't a burden, she is financially secure, she is a vibrant and fun lady... but that doesn't mean she gets to invite herself along on our trip. My husband told her the dates but also told her that we had already made plans for our spare time while we were there and that we had invited other people to come with us. Her nose was out of joint about it, but...oh well. That's what ya get when you don't pay attention to peoples boundaries.

It may be too late to stop your brother from visiting this time . It's actually not, but I understand that you may not want to rock the boat.... (ahhhh another hangover from our upbringing....) but I hope you find the strength to let him know that in the future he needs to understand that you get to be part of the decision about whether he stays in your home or not. You can't stop him from flying to where you live, but you don't have to let him stay in your home or even cross the threshold if you don't want to. Same goes for the rest of your family. Your home = your sanctuary.

You can set any boundaries you want around your infant. Are they rational boundaries? are they enforcable? Do you want to be the sobriety police/recovery cop? Is that even actually possible? Sounds like a burden to me.

"I will only allow healthy, well adjusted family members around my child", sounds like a lot easier boundary to enforce. If sick people show up at your door unannounced, you do NOT have to let them in. It might be uncomfortable to turn them away but you ARE entitled to do so, legally and morally. Your family will only "trample" your boundaries if you let them. I don't doubt that they would try to impose their will on you! But that doesn't mean you have to bend it.

Hang in there. I think you will get stronger and stronger going forward. I sure did once I learned to enforce my boundaries and not feel guilty about it.
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Old 02-25-2020, 07:07 AM
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Originally Posted by ElizabethReed View Post
Can I insist that my parents show evidence of seriously pursuing recovery before I allow them contact with baby? Is that fair/reasonable for a boundary? All these questions in my head...
No you can't expect them to change their lifestyle just so they can see the baby as they are adults and can live their lives how they choose.

You can lay down some rules about how they interact with your baby. Not drunk, ask before you cuddle, make sure their vaccinations are up to date. My feeling is you understandably want to share your gorgeous fella with the family, but are having trouble working out the format. Do you visit them, or they visit you? Do you want them to arrange visits in advance (yes!!!) so you can set a time that suits you? I suggest you sit down with your husband and go over the type of contact you would feel comfortable with, then lay it out very clearly to the family. Any surprises and you're not available.

I see what you mean when your brother just rocks up. Can you ask them to stay in a hotel? Just explain about the sleepless nights, surgery and need to concentrate on the baby. If you can't do that make it clear in a nice way that they will have to fend for themselves while with you. Seriously, you don't need traditional house guests just after having a baby.

Also think about infectious illnesses like colds and make it clear you don't want any guests who could pass on something. I always quarantined myself when my GC was a baby and I would never turn up unannounced.
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Old 02-25-2020, 09:17 AM
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ER- I have a friend whose parent's have been coming to Australia from Europe to stay with her for months at a time- every years, for ages. The family dynamic was really dysfunctional- so just before Xmas- she basically told them she did not want them to come. She then felt much relief, although it took a while for her parents to accept.

Regardless of your foo dynamics- your health and that of your baby's- is your first priority.
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Old 02-26-2020, 06:29 AM
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Congratulations!

I personally would sit everyone down and let them know you want only good things for all of you, and a wonderful relationship together. That if things become negative out of love for your child you will have to step back. I would try to put a very positive spin on it and see where it leads. Then, follow your gut, even when it's hard.



Just my two cents.
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Old 02-26-2020, 08:59 AM
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Originally Posted by FeelingGreat View Post
I see what you mean when your brother just rocks up. Can you ask them to stay in a hotel?
I was going to suggest the same thing FeelingGreat did. Definitely a hotel stay for them. It does go back to the normal thing!

People should not just show up on your doorstep, ever. That's a good boundary to have I think. Even if it's family, they should always ask, is it ok if we stay with you or would a hotel be better. That's just polite, not even a "family" thing (in my opinion). The only exception to this is in an emergency or if it's your child (even there, you need to look out for yourself)!

I think you should feel free to set whatever boundaries you are comfortable with, sure, none of them need to follow them but that has nothing to do with you right? You say what you need and they either do it or they don't but you aren't going to be the hostess with the mostess just because they booked a flight.

You are the only one that can change this and it can actually work, however you are going to have to do that work and enforce your boundaries - if you choose to stay in contact.
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Old 02-27-2020, 07:11 AM
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Thank you so much SmallButMighty, sorry about the awkwardness with your MIL...I'm super impressed with how you handled that situation. And: "I will only allow healthy, well adjusted family members around my child"...I'm working on committing that statement to memory. That boundary works for me.

So I finally decided just to tell my brother no, you can't come this weekend, it's just too soon and we are not ready. He even offered to stay in a hotel. I even thought about giving them a window of time for visiting. And then I thought, I really need to get used to setting and holding boundaries with my family. This needs to be a precedent, something that will hopefully give my parents pause if they consider dropping in uninvited themselves. And so I said no, and my brother handled it very graciously (the GF probably had a fit, though...). And I felt really good about it, until last night, when the guilt started seeping in. I feel completely awful about it now and am considering relenting. But, back to SmallButMighty's post on trusting my instincts...I really don't want them coming this weekend. I'm not recovered from the surgery, and my husband and I are exhausted and stressed (even as we are overjoyed!). So...sticking to my guns for now.

With baby's arrival, all of these memories of my own childhood, before my dad developed a serious drinking problem, keep surfacing. He was a really, really great father. But then there are memories of my visits to my parents' house as an adult, with my dad passed out on the floor after dinner, every single night, after multiple bottles of wine. And more recent visits, where he was drinking whiskey in the basement, trying to hide it from us. It is so heartbreaking I can hardly bear it. I think of the old days, and it makes me think, he would be so happy to know baby, he would be such a great and loving grandfather, and then it's like my mind flips channels to the current reality, and I think, nfw, it would be awful.

Sorry, I'm just rambling. Probably the postpartum hormones getting to me, lol. Alcoholism just totally sucks and is so unfair. As every single person on this forum knows well.
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Old 02-27-2020, 07:40 AM
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Thanks for the update ER, I've been wondering about you.

You did it! You stood up for yourself. You set a firm boundary and you stuck to it. You are already changing your family dynamics for the better, even if just in a small way with one sibling...but it's a start, a good one. He will approach things with you differently from now on.

And its HUGE that you identified the "Guilt" and didn't let it get the best of you. For the most part guilt is a toxic, useless emotion. It's appropriate to feel guilty if we've ACTUALLY done something wrong, that shows having a decent conscience... But the guilt we feel because maybe we might have sorta done something to perhaps upset a loved one... is not a healthy kind of guilt. We are not responsible for other peoples feelings or reactions. That is not a burden we should bear, it gets damn heavy... it's a lot of work for a whole lot of nothing.

You are going to set a wonderful examples of what healthy boundaries look like for your child. Breaking the generations long dysfunctions that take place within enmeshed families is something we should be very proud of. No reason to feel guilt or shame about raising the next generation in healthier conditions.

Rest up so you can heal up. You will know when (or if) you are ready for house guests.
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Old 02-27-2020, 08:02 AM
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Thanks very much for bolstering my resolve SBM. I really needed that.

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Old 02-27-2020, 10:13 AM
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You are not ranting, Elizabeth. This is what SR is for. I think you are doing well to set boundaries with your bro. Parenting is a skill- not a natural instinct as we perhaps may think- it takes time, patience and thought. Maybe there is a young mum's group at a local community centre near you?
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Old 02-27-2020, 02:41 PM
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Good for you!!!! You will find (or at least I did) that once you start forming boundaries it becomes a little easier the next time! Well done!
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