Betrayal - wounded mom

Old 02-21-2020, 02:44 AM
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Betrayal - wounded mom

Dear friends,

Even after so many years in codie recovery, I am still in need of some guidance, and as you always do, call me out when I am wrong. Long story short..... 34 years with axh, who was angry, a serial liar, and had an affair. Through many years of alanon, open aa meetings, SoberRecovery and a therapist, I divorced him 5 years ago. I have worked a program to better myself, but things still sometimes hurt regarding axh, my recovery is continual and that is why I am still on this forum.

I have two dd's who are my blessings and we (I thought) have a great relationship. So recently I heard that axh had a new girl friend. (not that it should matter 5 years out) So I have spoken to my kids over the years about Dad and his relationships and they always played dumb, didn't share anything; obviously to "protect" me. So, talking to a mutual friend a few weeks ago, I found out axh is still with the women he had the affair with. So I reached out to DD 27 last night and asked her if she ever met "Kitten" before and she said yes, " a long time ago". Then I inquire more and she tells me the last time was last summer that they were all together and was very vague on all the other events over the years. (they don't live near each other so she doesn't see her Dad that often) She then tells me multiple times they were together, but can't remember exactly. I know it really shouldn't matter but I am feeling very sad that my daughter has lied to me over the years. She said she didn't want to hurt me, but as in all things, it not the act that hurts, but the lies and cover ups that do. I wish that she would have been honest and forthright with me.

So I called DD 26 and she didn't pick up, as she was already on the phone with her sister, who was telling her about what transpired. She finally reached out and said she had not met Kitten, but she knew her Dad had been with her the whole time. I am feeling betrayed by my kids, that they are/were not truthful with me. I have always stressed being honest, as I was burned for so many years with axh, as he lied to me continually and now I see the same with my kids. I have always spoken to my girls about trust and earning trust, how important it is in life and what it was like to be on the receiving end of dishonesty and what it does to your self-esteem.

I know that you will call me out, but just so hurt that my two kids have not been truthful with me over the many years. Your insights would be appreciated.
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Old 02-21-2020, 05:04 AM
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OK - You asked for feedback. I have my own experiences and biases here so feel free to blast back. Perhaps we can call this the POV of the divorced parents children.

I am assuming that your X is every bit as bad as you described and I congratulate you for having the strength to divorce him. BUT...

Thread Title - "Betrayal - wounded mom"
I hope you are referring to your X and not your children.

Expecting your children to report to you about your X's activities is unreasonable. They didn't choose to be your children and have divorced parents but you and your X did choose each other at one point in time. If you want to know what's going on ask your X. Ask him how often the children see his GF. If your relationship with your X is so bad that you can't feel comfortable talking to him don't expect your children to fill the gap.

To question weather or not you have a great relationship with your children based on how much they share with you about your X's activities is not going to help you have the best possible relationship with them. I realize this is harsh but IME if you want the best possible relationship with your children don't put them in the middle of the situation with your X. No matter how bad he was he's their father and they seem to want to have a continuing relationship with him. That's normal. Except in the most extreme situations kids want to have a relationship with both of their parents even after they split up.

Again I have experiences that bias me (can you tell?) so please feel free to ignore my feedback if nothing here rings true to you.
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Old 02-21-2020, 05:25 AM
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Why would you want to know these things about your Ex?! Nothing good can come out of it. You're (like you are now) just going to end up with hurt feelings. And, now you're upset with your daughters. Stop. Don't dig up the past.

A long time ago, my parents divorced and both remarried. I kept the 2 completely separate. My relationship with my father, as well as his wife didn't have any impact on how I felt about my mother. And vice versa.

Please, just work on your relationship with your daughters and don't ask about the Ex, the GF, etc. Don't expect them to share that with you. In fact, ask that they don't.
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Old 02-21-2020, 05:25 AM
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would you want those same children giving the EX the lowdown on your personal life and relationships?? reporting back to him on what you are doing, who you are seeing, where you are going?

that's not their job - in either channel. as divorced persons of many years with ADULT children, there is no need or purpose to know such things. sounds more like your daughter's were respecting each parent's autonomy.
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Old 02-21-2020, 05:33 AM
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As a child from divorced parents, there were many things I didn't share with my mother because I didn't want to cause her any more pain. I loved my mother more then anything and We had a great relationship. My dad and I had a rocky relationship. My dad married the woman he had an affair with and they really did have a wonderful relationship. I never wanted my mother to know how in love they were. She didn't need to know. It was no longer any of her business., imo.
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Old 02-21-2020, 07:30 AM
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I'm sorry you are hurting maia. Nothing in this world hurts a mumma's heart quite as much as thinking her cubs have conspired against her. There was a instance, early after my split from their father that, I saw a text chain between my son, daughter, AXH and his GF, all of them making me out to be a crazy irrational biotch. It was Mother's Day weekend. I can't even put in to words what that felt like. "Gutted" comes close, but even that doesn't get to the excruciating pain of it...

Anyways, I just told you that so that you know I empathize with what you are feeling right now.

I will agree with the above posters who say your adult daughters have just been keeping their relationship with their dad separate from their relationship with you. I get that after all the years you spent with your AXH it's impossible not to wonder what goes on in his life and how he is doing. It's also normal to wonder how your kids are fitting in with his "new" life. I totally get it. It's hard not to be curious or have feelings about how the children you created with the man you were with for decades are interacting with each other. There was a bond between the four of you and you made the choice to be the "odd one out".. but doesn't mean their aren't still some ties that bind. Parts of my heart are still in this place too, and I do have to battle back the blues sometimes.

I don't think your daughters meant you any harm maia. Probably the opposite. They were probably trying to protect you. Just because an adult chooses not to tell you every single thing going on in their life or just because they chose not to answer a direct question, does not mean they are lying to you. Everyone is allowed to have their privacy about whatever it is they choose to keep to themselves.

My mother considers my brother and I extensions of herself. She feels the right to know absolutely everything that is going on with us. She will tell you so. (" I'M YOUR MOTHER!!!!!!" You tell me right now!!!!!" ) She is finally understanding that she does not get that with me, it took more than 40 years but it's finally sinking in. It doesn't stop her opinions but she doesn't get a say in my life. HOWEVER my brother is a whole other story. She is all up in his business and they are disgustingly enmeshed. As an example, she drives him to his doctors appointments, fills out his paperwork for him , and wont leave reception area until he comes out "so he wont worry if she isn't there"... he is 46...so gross. I guess my point of telling you that is that I think we have to cut the apron strings or our codependency tendencies will run amuck with our grown children just like it did with our alcoholics.

This is just a gentle suggestion maia, but I'd advise that you don't ask your daughters questions that would put them in a place of discomfort. It's very apparent now they don't want to talk about their dad's life with you. I think it would be best to give them that space. Whatever relationship they have with him and who ever else is in his life, is their business, not yours. And, whatever those relations are, has NOTHING to do with what their relationship with you is all about. You are their mom, they love you.

*HUG*
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Old 02-21-2020, 08:08 AM
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Maia

I totally get that you are hurting. My husband took another woman into my house when I was ill with cancer. As I was getting better I saw her driving around in our van with my husband and one of my kids and they were all laughing!! They didn't see me but the pain I felt was actually physical.

I told my kids they had betrayed me. I thought they didn't like the other woman. I felt they had lied to me because clearly, they were all getting along quite well.

That didn't go down too well. We are at a place now that the kids have told me they want to have one relationship with me and one relationship with their dad.

They do not want to be in the middle.

Things are usually not simple. Maybe they tolerated her because otherwise they wouldn't see their dad. Maybe they felt some kind of obligation to him to accept his choices and not to judge him. The actual truth will never be known because it is too complex.

Kids love both their parents and must be given the space by the other to do so. The love they feel for their dad does not undermine the love they feel for their mum and vice versa.

It's important for you to build your relationships with your kids regardless of how the relationship with their father is. That's their business and they will only talk to you about it if they want to and they may never want to. And that's OK.

Just make sure you don't push them away by insisting they talk about things that they don't want to talk about. Being in the middle is so painful for them.

I am learning this one the hard way.
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Old 02-21-2020, 09:42 AM
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Did you handle everything perfectly with regards to xah ?

Yes/no

If no, why place that expectation on your daughters ?

Way I see it, you can either put it down to human frailty and move on or stay stuck in the mental anguish of why ? how ? why not ? etc.

They did what they thought was best at the time, with the knowledge they had at the time.

You carried on with xah at the time, doing what you thought was best at the time with the knowledge you had at the time.
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Old 02-21-2020, 11:10 AM
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People usually keep things from us when we have shown them that we will be upset with the truth. Everyone claims to want honesty, but very few of us are able to truly receive it graciously - and others feel that. Hence, their avoidance or what we perceive to be dishonesty.
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Old 02-21-2020, 11:35 AM
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Please don't put your daughters in the middle. It isn't their job to report to you regarding the goings on with their father. You have been divorced for five years, and if he has been with the same woman all that time, of course his daughters would have met her. Why should they have to run and tell you that?

I don't understand why you would feel betrayed by them. They didn't lie to you, they just didn't tell you everything, and they have that right.
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Old 02-21-2020, 11:37 AM
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While I can completely understand your feelings I think you need to not make them your daughter's responsibility. As the child of divorced parents, parents whose divorce was actually very amicable, I can tell you the stress of being put in the middle or feeling I had to choose or worry about one of their feelings was terrible. Even though my father was not a particularly great father I still felt a huge need to have a relationship and be close to him.
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Old 02-21-2020, 11:40 AM
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I understand that you see that the deliberate omissions are being dishonest. However, I think "what you don't know, won't hurt you" is their position. And that is not being dishonest.
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Old 02-21-2020, 02:10 PM
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Originally Posted by suki44883 View Post
Please don't put your daughters in the middle. It isn't their job to report to you regarding the goings on with their father. You have been divorced for five years, and if he has been with the same woman all that time, of course his daughters would have met her. Why should they have to run and tell you that?

I don't understand why you would feel betrayed by them. They didn't lie to you, they just didn't tell you everything, and they have that right.
^^^^ Yes, that. ^^^^
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Old 02-21-2020, 03:08 PM
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Thank you everyone for your raw comments!!!

I was hurt because we have discussed his relationships and my girls said they didn't know, and now I find out they spend time together. Yes, I did feel betrayed by them, and finally telling me the truth.

I get what you are all saying. Over the last 5 years I have been the "buffer" to the crazyness of axh, his family and my two kids. I would guide them on how best to handle things. So with that saying I told the girls today that I blocked dad 5 years ago so I didn't feel the pain, on purpose. So hearing them complain about him, keeps me in the loop. I have asked them to not share with me any info about him or his family. I hope this will make it easier on them, and then I won't feel the hurt anymore. I just un-followed a few of the cousins that I had stayed in touch with. Not realizing it is still unhealthy for me to see or hear anything from that family. As I always say, I am a work in progress!!

I know I can always count on "you people" to hit me with a wet noodle!! I hope our new arrangement will be easier on my kids and hopefully on me.

Hugs everyone, and I hope you have an awesome weekend!!
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Old 02-21-2020, 07:06 PM
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For what it's worth, before my XAH died he told our daughter not to tell me he was living with his new girlfriend (said girlfriend was a meth addict he met in rehab, with a criminal record as long as my arm - so I can see why XAH didn't want me to know). This all came out, as these things have a way of doing, and I told Kid that I wasn't angry at her - I was upset with XAH for putting her in a position where she either had to lie to me (and keep her father happy) or make her father unhappy (by telling me about the girlfriend living with him).

My daughter was much younger than yours, and at the time she was having unsupervised visits at her father's place, so having the meth girlfriend around was an issue for me. But I recognized that she had two parents she had to try to be loyal to, and I couldn't expect her to put me above her father.
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Old 02-22-2020, 06:03 AM
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My dad's younger brother and my mom's younger sister married for a short time. My uncle never asked a single word about my aunt or cousin, but my aunt would ask about him and I found it to be extremely uncomfortable.
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Old 02-22-2020, 01:57 PM
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This I understand completely. The difference is my Mom really (really) disliked my (alcoholic) Father by the time they divorced so nothing we could tell her would shock her or hurt her.

And we did. Because, besides discussing it amongst ourselves, who else can you tell lol

However, if that hadn't been the case I would have asked up front, ok what do you not want to hear about, the latest phone call of ramblings or whatever.

But I am also a believer in the truth, but get that they were trying to protect you. I think you handled this so well. I hope you are not still feeling hurt, but I do understand.
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Old 02-23-2020, 04:41 AM
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Would it have been easier/less painful if the story was about him failing (at the new relationship etc)?
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Old 02-23-2020, 06:14 AM
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Dear Maia
I consider you a rock, who has been SO much help to me on these pages. I appreciate your transparency on this latest thread. None of us are perfect yet, myself included.

Please forgive my bluntness here, but what you did with your daughters is called "triangulation." This is a technique that draws others in and gets them to do our "dirty work." If you really had to know what your ex was up to, you should just ask him directly. You would then risk him telling you that it's none of your business.

Maybe it would help to back away and look at the bigger picture. You divorced him for some very good reasons, including him making you feel crazy at times. At this stage in your successful, hard-won recovery, do you REALLY want to be drawn back into his drama? What is the need deep inside you that drives you to care about his relationships? Are you still trying to rescue him?
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Old 02-23-2020, 09:21 AM
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Always go to the source. If you want to know something about your ex, ask HIM.

My adult kids are in contact with my ex (their dad) and his wife. I'm curious about how it's going for my ex and his wife (particularly from the wife's perspective) but I would not ask my kids to report on this, it is not their place.

I don't have the kind of relationship with my ex, or with his wife (whom I've met a few times, and like her, and am tempted to tell her she could do better lol) to ask them, so, I just don't get to know. It's okay. Their relationship has zero effect on my life.

On a related note: my mom, who is wonderful but very nosy, sometimes asks me to report on the state of my kids' marriages. But I don't. I tell her to ask THEM if she wants to know something. If I DID report on them, to their grandma, that would be a betrayal IMO. They are adults and can speak for themselves.
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