Can someone please tell me how marriages survive this? Or if they even should?
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Join Date: Jun 2019
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Can someone please tell me how marriages survive this? Or if they even should?
Sometimes I don’t know what I am fighting for anymore. I have not been happy for a long time, he has lied to me more times than I probably know, I do not trust him, and we have not had any kind of real intimacy in a very long time. At the same time I somehow ask myself am I making up this part of my reality? Is it really that bad?
He is the father of my children and I love him for that and I am thankful that he is a part of my life in that way.
But let’s say he comes out the other side a sober recovering alcoholic. What is left of our marriage. We are friends with kids at best. And VERY just comfortable with each other and being a part of each other’s lives.
Can anyone share their experiences here? How do you make something work with so much baggage? More than make it work, BE TRULY HAPPY TOGETHER.
I started reading the Al-Anon book today, I wish I would’ve found this at least a couple of years ago. Both the book and this forum. So thankful for it all.
He is the father of my children and I love him for that and I am thankful that he is a part of my life in that way.
But let’s say he comes out the other side a sober recovering alcoholic. What is left of our marriage. We are friends with kids at best. And VERY just comfortable with each other and being a part of each other’s lives.
Can anyone share their experiences here? How do you make something work with so much baggage? More than make it work, BE TRULY HAPPY TOGETHER.
I started reading the Al-Anon book today, I wish I would’ve found this at least a couple of years ago. Both the book and this forum. So thankful for it all.
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Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 8,631
Well, I don't have any experience being married to an alcoholic, but I have been divorced.
At some point you may not want to "save" the relationshiop. That point is reached for different people at different times. We see it here. Someone who is ready to walk out on the shoddy treatment after 2-3 years of marriage and others that stay for 20+ years.
What is that? Hope, patience, finding your own life and living it around the other person, again, that's different for everyone.
So when can it not be saved? When you make two decisions. One, that you don't want to continue with the relationship anymore and two that even if all the stars aligned and everything you want to be fixed was "fixed" (or at least the big ones like alcoholism or abuse) you are not prepared to be part of that "fixing" anymore, it's too much water under the bridge.
When you are in an alcoholic marriage none of the "normal" relationship things get addressed. Other problems fade in to the background and the big problem, alcoholism, takes over.
So after years of that, you have to ask yourself. If all works well, are you prepared to put in the hard work (and him too) to try to mend the relationship.
Only you know if you are prepared to do that, that's really one of the things to attempt to get clarity on during your time apart.
Just read your other thread:
In the right about what? You checking up on him? Well your entire family together is riding on that so boo hoo. But aside from that, this is a great example of everything else going by the wayside. He is mean and rude to you but that is all overshadowed by the drinking, so these things, this treatment - gets swept aside.
At some point you may not want to "save" the relationshiop. That point is reached for different people at different times. We see it here. Someone who is ready to walk out on the shoddy treatment after 2-3 years of marriage and others that stay for 20+ years.
What is that? Hope, patience, finding your own life and living it around the other person, again, that's different for everyone.
So when can it not be saved? When you make two decisions. One, that you don't want to continue with the relationship anymore and two that even if all the stars aligned and everything you want to be fixed was "fixed" (or at least the big ones like alcoholism or abuse) you are not prepared to be part of that "fixing" anymore, it's too much water under the bridge.
When you are in an alcoholic marriage none of the "normal" relationship things get addressed. Other problems fade in to the background and the big problem, alcoholism, takes over.
So after years of that, you have to ask yourself. If all works well, are you prepared to put in the hard work (and him too) to try to mend the relationship.
Only you know if you are prepared to do that, that's really one of the things to attempt to get clarity on during your time apart.
Just read your other thread:
He begged for more time. Said he was still trying to figure it out -eye roll-. No apologize him for the way he was a jerk to me last night though. No, he double down early this morning with a text saying he was still in the right.
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FWN....actually, statistically, I think most marriages don't survive it.
Of the marriages that DO hang together, there is nothing to say that those are happy and fulfilling marriages......I have seen so many marriages where people just exist...but, don't actually thrive.....
Is it possible that you are still too young and vital to have "just existing" as your most lofty goal, in life? It may come down to this...….
Of the marriages that DO hang together, there is nothing to say that those are happy and fulfilling marriages......I have seen so many marriages where people just exist...but, don't actually thrive.....
Is it possible that you are still too young and vital to have "just existing" as your most lofty goal, in life? It may come down to this...….
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Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 170
Hey FWN,
As stated working your own program as he works his is essential. I’ve had to stop blaming and take a look at my part in all of this. Which has not been easy or comfortable.
I came to the conclusion that I was far sicker than my alcoholic wife. I went full ****** during her active addiction and prior I was drinking with her. I can’t point fingers, or say at least I didn’t do that, because I have my own defects and terrible way of reacting.
Thankfully we are both committed to sobriety and recovery. Where that leads us is unknown but I know I’ll be healthier for the journey.
As stated working your own program as he works his is essential. I’ve had to stop blaming and take a look at my part in all of this. Which has not been easy or comfortable.
I came to the conclusion that I was far sicker than my alcoholic wife. I went full ****** during her active addiction and prior I was drinking with her. I can’t point fingers, or say at least I didn’t do that, because I have my own defects and terrible way of reacting.
Thankfully we are both committed to sobriety and recovery. Where that leads us is unknown but I know I’ll be healthier for the journey.
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But let’s say he comes out the other side a sober recovering alcoholic.
You will be in a place you simply can't picture right now, so there is no point in struggling to answer questions that will no longer matter, FWN. One day at a time.
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Join Date: Jan 2020
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From my rearview mirror...
Originally Posted by FWN 
Sometimes I don’t know what I am fighting for anymore. I have not been happy for a long time, he has lied to me more times than I probably know, I do not trust him, and we have not had any kind of real intimacy in a very long time. At the same time I somehow ask myself am I making up this part of my reality? Is it really that bad?
FWN, first of all, brave and thoughtful questions! I was in a similar situation in my marriage about 4 yrs ago. One big difference, just to honor my husband, is that he was never abusive, etc, just passed out also right after work. You are ahead of the game reading the AlAnon book!! attend some meetings, I always say, give it at least 3 tries to decide the group is a good fit. Listen and chat with the folks whose stories resonate with you. Sharing your situation with trusted friends and family really helps too. On the marriage side, it doesn't seem to me that an alcoholic can be a solid participant in marriage counseling or, really, a true partnership. They are being run by their addiction. Love them, but love yourself even more! You have reached a point of understanding that maybe?
He is the father of my children and I love him for that and I am thankful that he is a part of my life in that way.
But let’s say he comes out the other side a sober recovering alcoholic. What is left of our marriage. We are friends with kids at best. And VERY just comfortable with each other and being a part of each other’s lives.
Can anyone share their experiences here? How do you make something work with so much baggage? More than make it work, BE TRULY HAPPY TOGETHER.
I started reading the Al-Anon book today, I wish I would’ve found this at least a couple of years ago. Both the book and this forum. So thankful for it all.
FWN, first of all, brave and thoughtful questions! I was in a similar situation in my marriage about 4 yrs ago. One big difference, just to honor my husband, is that he was never abusive, etc, just passed out also right after work. You are ahead of the game reading the AlAnon book!! attend some meetings, I always say, give it at least 3 tries to decide the group is a good fit. Listen and chat with the folks whose stories resonate with you. Sharing your situation with trusted friends and family really helps too. On the marriage side, it doesn't seem to me that an alcoholic can be a solid participant in marriage counseling or, really, a true partnership. They are being run by their addiction. Love them, but love yourself even more! You have reached a point of understanding that maybe?
He is the father of my children and I love him for that and I am thankful that he is a part of my life in that way.
But let’s say he comes out the other side a sober recovering alcoholic. What is left of our marriage. We are friends with kids at best. And VERY just comfortable with each other and being a part of each other’s lives.
Can anyone share their experiences here? How do you make something work with so much baggage? More than make it work, BE TRULY HAPPY TOGETHER.
I started reading the Al-Anon book today, I wish I would’ve found this at least a couple of years ago. Both the book and this forum. So thankful for it all.
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Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: WA
Posts: 3
Originally Posted by honeypig
Why not wait and see IF this happens before you worry about how you're going to handle it? Might I suggest, one more time, that if you do your own recovery work, things will start to look completely different in time? Your life will change in ways you can't even imagine now. REALLY. And the questions you're driving yourself crazy worrying about now will have become totally irrelevant. REALLY.
You will be in a place you simply can't picture right now, so there is no point in struggling to answer questions that will no longer matter, FWN. One day at a time.
You will be in a place you simply can't picture right now, so there is no point in struggling to answer questions that will no longer matter, FWN. One day at a time.
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Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Blue Ridge Mountains
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"Sometimes I don’t know what I am fighting for anymore. "
You. That's who you are fighting for.
For years now you have carried a heavy burden of deeming
yourself responsible to control something that is completely
impossible for you to do. You are exhausted but still you wish
to know exactly what will happen when you finally set that
burden down.
It doesn't work that way. It takes time, and effort and faith. You
will get the answers but not tomorrow. Stressing yourself about
decisions so far in the future is not helpful to you. I understand
the fear and unfamiliarity of change. But it just takes time, and
you learning new coping skills, and a new understanding of what
you have been doing and what you wish to change and what
you will accept and many other things.
You. That's who you are fighting for.
For years now you have carried a heavy burden of deeming
yourself responsible to control something that is completely
impossible for you to do. You are exhausted but still you wish
to know exactly what will happen when you finally set that
burden down.
It doesn't work that way. It takes time, and effort and faith. You
will get the answers but not tomorrow. Stressing yourself about
decisions so far in the future is not helpful to you. I understand
the fear and unfamiliarity of change. But it just takes time, and
you learning new coping skills, and a new understanding of what
you have been doing and what you wish to change and what
you will accept and many other things.
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 196
Take care of yourself first. Getting Them Sober Volume One by Toby Rice Drews was like a Bible to me. Going to Al Anon meetings was very comforting. I remember going to some meeting where it was in the dark with candles and there were like voices being spoken-just a raw truth being spoken. Divorce Care at a local church was very helpful to me-still go to the yearly get-togethers even though I am still married. This is your darkest hour, and it is like you are trying to navigate how to get to a better place. I actually initiated two divorces with my husband. It was really when I was 100% sure that we should not be together. Both divorces timed out. My husband has been sober five to six years. It is like waking up from a nightmare dream, and you are finally like "oh you are sober now--this is how it is supposed to be with you as my husband-and it is more raw and natural--I can just see my husband for who he is." My husband had to hit rock bottom before he started to really recover. I have changed as a person as well. I no longer drink at all. I only drank socially before I met my husband. It just changed me because it broke my heart that God created this tall dark handsome guy who could be my boyfriend, the dude that I was intimate with, my husband--and it just broke my heart when I saw what alcohol turned him into. We have had a lot of beautiful moments just being married. But the truth is that any marriage can fall apart for any reason. I still sometimes wonder what my life would be like with someone else. I am a little over the tall dark and handsome guy at this point in my life. I like it better when my husband is the great dad, honest and responsible husband, loyal partner, fun dude that I can have an awesome conversation in the dark.
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Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 62
I too filed for divorce twice. And there were so many times I thought our marriage wouldn’t survive. He had done and said so many horrible things that I didn’t think there was any coming back, but we did. His recovery is still early (only 7 months), but he has immersed himself so deep into his recovery that he is like a different person. He’s better than the guy he was when I married him. I can say our marriage is stronger than it’s ever been because there is so much more gratitude. We find every moment of our lives together with him sober to be an absolute blessing. It’s beautiful but it took a long time to get there. I think every relationship is going to be different but you just can’t compare someone who is actively drinking with someone who is in active recovery. They are truly like different people.
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Posts: 6,047
If he did achieve long term sobriety, you'd still have all sorts of resentments and feelings to work through with him, but you both seem devoted to each other and the family, and having him sober would be a great start.
A lot of problems can be talked through in therapy, but with the proviso that he has to have stopped drinking and he's showing no signs of that yet. You can worry about whether your marriage would survive right now, but plenty of time for that if he stops drinking.
A lot of problems can be talked through in therapy, but with the proviso that he has to have stopped drinking and he's showing no signs of that yet. You can worry about whether your marriage would survive right now, but plenty of time for that if he stops drinking.
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Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 1,144
FWN, I've been doing the same thinking ever since discovering husband has lied and covered up his drinking truth.
Once a partner becomes sober that's only one part of the issue. Then there are so many other relationship issues that include trust and what we really want and need in a partner.
I hope I don't offend anyone with this analogy. I wish partners came with owner's manuals. You're interested in this vehicle but can it last for the long haul? Can it last the country roads, the hills and valleys? The speed bumps in life? Sometimes you have to trade in that vehicle. It just wasn't exactly what you needed. Do you deal with the issues and just get use to them? There may be a better model if you're ready. I'm trying to save up enough money for a new life.
Relationships take time to figure out and work out. All the other relationship issues that occur, need to be dealt with or forgotten. I need to ask myself, How much time and effort am I willing to devote and are they making at least an equal effort?
Once a partner becomes sober that's only one part of the issue. Then there are so many other relationship issues that include trust and what we really want and need in a partner.
I hope I don't offend anyone with this analogy. I wish partners came with owner's manuals. You're interested in this vehicle but can it last for the long haul? Can it last the country roads, the hills and valleys? The speed bumps in life? Sometimes you have to trade in that vehicle. It just wasn't exactly what you needed. Do you deal with the issues and just get use to them? There may be a better model if you're ready. I'm trying to save up enough money for a new life.
Relationships take time to figure out and work out. All the other relationship issues that occur, need to be dealt with or forgotten. I need to ask myself, How much time and effort am I willing to devote and are they making at least an equal effort?
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Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Blue Ridge Mountains
Posts: 816
There are huge shifts in a marriage along the road to salvaging it from
the family disease of alcoholism. I'll share this example, not saying it
will work for anyone else, or the best thing to say, but I what I managed
to communicate to my AH. What happens from this discussion can
give clues to potential success in a way, but no guarantee.
I told AH I was struggling to cope with his drinking and the effects it was
having on he & I and the relationship. I was getting help. I said you are an
adult and have every right to drink as much as you want and I will no
longer have anything to say about it. I can only control what I need to
do to be emotional healthy and have peace in my life and I need to
figure that out. In the meantime, as we are both responsible adults,
if there are any criticisms to be made, they need to be made in a
kind way. I have had enough criticism from you, I've given enough
criticism to you. We are both doing the best we can, and that way
of treating each other has to end. I asked if he could do that.
This was a big change because things quickly were much quieter.
We struggled to find a new way to communicate. Yes he was
drinking heavily and I realized how sick he was, but he did agree
to do it and he did. The criticism and put downs stopped and things
we're different. It was 2 years after before he went to rehab.
I was going to alanon. in therapy, and learning. This is one piece
of the struggle.
Every situation is different and all solutions are individual to the
couple in the end. What seems to have worked for us will not
for others. We are older and have been married for decades.
Had I had the resources back then that I have today to understand
the big picture I don't think the marriage would have survived.
He was in recovery before but had relapses. The worst
drinking was the last seven years, that's when I saw how
sick he could become.
the family disease of alcoholism. I'll share this example, not saying it
will work for anyone else, or the best thing to say, but I what I managed
to communicate to my AH. What happens from this discussion can
give clues to potential success in a way, but no guarantee.
I told AH I was struggling to cope with his drinking and the effects it was
having on he & I and the relationship. I was getting help. I said you are an
adult and have every right to drink as much as you want and I will no
longer have anything to say about it. I can only control what I need to
do to be emotional healthy and have peace in my life and I need to
figure that out. In the meantime, as we are both responsible adults,
if there are any criticisms to be made, they need to be made in a
kind way. I have had enough criticism from you, I've given enough
criticism to you. We are both doing the best we can, and that way
of treating each other has to end. I asked if he could do that.
This was a big change because things quickly were much quieter.
We struggled to find a new way to communicate. Yes he was
drinking heavily and I realized how sick he was, but he did agree
to do it and he did. The criticism and put downs stopped and things
we're different. It was 2 years after before he went to rehab.
I was going to alanon. in therapy, and learning. This is one piece
of the struggle.
Every situation is different and all solutions are individual to the
couple in the end. What seems to have worked for us will not
for others. We are older and have been married for decades.
Had I had the resources back then that I have today to understand
the big picture I don't think the marriage would have survived.
He was in recovery before but had relapses. The worst
drinking was the last seven years, that's when I saw how
sick he could become.
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Join Date: Sep 2019
Posts: 134
Can someone please tell me how marriages survive this? Or if they even should?
FWN, that’s the million dollar question. I ask myself the same nearly everyday. I know it all seems impossible right now. I don’t have an answer for you or myself. My AH is still drinking even after months of separation. I’m struggling with this realization. But my path is becoming clearer every day. All you can do is take this time for yourself, as much time as YOU need. Your answer will come.
I completely understand your resentments and trust issues, even the intamacy portion. These are major obstacles to overcome. Some can and some can’t. Everyone has different levels of forgiveness. You have to truly do some soul searching. But give it time, these questions don’t have to be answered today. I know you want them to be, please don’t rush yourself.
The first thing you (me) have to overcome is basing your happiness on your alcoholic husbands decisions. It’s hard, I know. This separation is a time for you to get clarity. We can tell you this over and over but until you experience it for yourself it’s hard to see thru the fog right now. More will be revealed and time is your friend right now.
FWN, that’s the million dollar question. I ask myself the same nearly everyday. I know it all seems impossible right now. I don’t have an answer for you or myself. My AH is still drinking even after months of separation. I’m struggling with this realization. But my path is becoming clearer every day. All you can do is take this time for yourself, as much time as YOU need. Your answer will come.
I completely understand your resentments and trust issues, even the intamacy portion. These are major obstacles to overcome. Some can and some can’t. Everyone has different levels of forgiveness. You have to truly do some soul searching. But give it time, these questions don’t have to be answered today. I know you want them to be, please don’t rush yourself.
The first thing you (me) have to overcome is basing your happiness on your alcoholic husbands decisions. It’s hard, I know. This separation is a time for you to get clarity. We can tell you this over and over but until you experience it for yourself it’s hard to see thru the fog right now. More will be revealed and time is your friend right now.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 133
Originally Posted by mylifeismine
I told AH I was struggling to cope with his drinking and the effects it was
having on he & I and the relationship. I was getting help. I said you are an
adult and have every right to drink as much as you want and I will no
longer have anything to say about it. I can only control what I need to
do to be emotional healthy and have peace in my life and I need to
figure that out. In the meantime, as we are both responsible adults,
if there are any criticisms to be made, they need to be made in a
kind way. I have had enough criticism from you, I've given enough
criticism to you. We are both doing the best we can, and that way
of treating each other has to end. I asked if he could do that.
having on he & I and the relationship. I was getting help. I said you are an
adult and have every right to drink as much as you want and I will no
longer have anything to say about it. I can only control what I need to
do to be emotional healthy and have peace in my life and I need to
figure that out. In the meantime, as we are both responsible adults,
if there are any criticisms to be made, they need to be made in a
kind way. I have had enough criticism from you, I've given enough
criticism to you. We are both doing the best we can, and that way
of treating each other has to end. I asked if he could do that.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 11,424
As the drinking partner, I first had to
1. Quit drinking without qualification and with a full commitment to do whatever it takes to stay that way.
2. To accept my responsibility for choosing to drink and not to blame others (especially my spouse) or my difficult past or current circumstances for my continued choices to keep drinking even as negative consequences accrued.
3. To be humble enough to accept the feedback from those I hurt while I was drinking, and deeply apologize with words but even more with sober proaction by working with a grateful heart to clean up my life and “messes” I had created while drinking.
4. To independently create a program of recovery for myself, which included self-care of body, mind, and spirit. And to do that program and improve it when I hit challenges, including relapse, which meant in my case facing many deep and painful issues of growing up in a very toxic and dysfunctional single-parent alcoholic home. That has been the hardest part as I ended up in a long-term codependent caregiving situation with my alcoholic parent which tipped my own drinking from heavy to full blown alcoholic as that’s how I learned as a child adults cope with stress and tense interpersonal interactions.
That’s a rough sketch of what it took for me to save my marriage. It isn’t for the faint-hearted, and I am grateful every day for my spouse, my sobriety and that I stepped up before it was too late. I hope this can give you some perspective from “the other side”.
As others have said, you have to recover too, and recognize all the above must come from him—you can’t help him with any of this, but you can start you own healing and rebuilding whatever his choices about really quitting for good.
1. Quit drinking without qualification and with a full commitment to do whatever it takes to stay that way.
2. To accept my responsibility for choosing to drink and not to blame others (especially my spouse) or my difficult past or current circumstances for my continued choices to keep drinking even as negative consequences accrued.
3. To be humble enough to accept the feedback from those I hurt while I was drinking, and deeply apologize with words but even more with sober proaction by working with a grateful heart to clean up my life and “messes” I had created while drinking.
4. To independently create a program of recovery for myself, which included self-care of body, mind, and spirit. And to do that program and improve it when I hit challenges, including relapse, which meant in my case facing many deep and painful issues of growing up in a very toxic and dysfunctional single-parent alcoholic home. That has been the hardest part as I ended up in a long-term codependent caregiving situation with my alcoholic parent which tipped my own drinking from heavy to full blown alcoholic as that’s how I learned as a child adults cope with stress and tense interpersonal interactions.
That’s a rough sketch of what it took for me to save my marriage. It isn’t for the faint-hearted, and I am grateful every day for my spouse, my sobriety and that I stepped up before it was too late. I hope this can give you some perspective from “the other side”.
As others have said, you have to recover too, and recognize all the above must come from him—you can’t help him with any of this, but you can start you own healing and rebuilding whatever his choices about really quitting for good.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 316
Once again I am so very grateful for all of your responses, they help so much and I do not know what I would do without them. I would be lost.
I am doing this no contact thing except our once a week calls on Sundays. He keeps texting me about random things but I am simply not responding.
I am eager to work on myself, one day at a time. I am about to sit down with some tea in my quiet house after my kids have gone to school and read my Al-Anon book which feels like it was written for me to me specifically. Funny how that happens, how universal this problem is. Sad really.
I am doing this no contact thing except our once a week calls on Sundays. He keeps texting me about random things but I am simply not responding.
I am eager to work on myself, one day at a time. I am about to sit down with some tea in my quiet house after my kids have gone to school and read my Al-Anon book which feels like it was written for me to me specifically. Funny how that happens, how universal this problem is. Sad really.
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Join Date: May 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 13,560
Marriages don't work unless each spouse has complete trust in the other in every aspect. No lies. No hiding. No cheating. It takes dedicated work from each party. Unfortunately, it's a commitment most addicts cannot/will not make. Their number one bride always remains the same, whatever they are addicted to.
Just my two cents.
Just my two cents.
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Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 573
My perspective may not be a popular one, but none of us are guaranteed true happiness in life. And I think it's unrealistic to expect it. I'm not saying that everyone should settle for 'good enough', but there's nothing wrong with 'good enough'. I'm not truly happy by any stretch of the imagination, but at the same time, I have a job, a home, I'm sober, my kids are healthy, and I'm healthy. There are a lot of non material things in my life I wish I had that probably would make me 'truly happy'. But I'm not going to chase after them, because it detracts from what I've already been given. No relationship or marriage is ever going to be exactly as we want it to be. I'm not saying don't try, but I am saying sometimes we have what we need. What we want is usually the problem. There's a big difference. Hugs to you.
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