First post, question about black out
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 2
First post, question about black out
Hello,
I have never really thought of myself as an alcoholic until recently. I would have one or two drinks a couple of nights a week, but when I go out or am with friends I cannot control my bingeing. Recently I was at a friend's house without my husband after being out drinking. I only remember maybe 30 minutes or so, then I blacked out. After that I have flashes of memory of one of my "friends" having sex with me. I was not able to control my body enough to say no. I had flirted with him, but this was not something I wanted to happen. I saw a therapist and my physician soon after and they both insist it was assault/rape because I was too drunk to consent. I feel like I was assaulted, but I also feel like it is my fault for being so out of control. According to another friend that was there, I was super flirty and handsy with this guy in front of our other friends- who know my husband as well (I don't remember this at all).
I think I should tell my husband and be honest about what has happened and how I recognize my alcoholism now. I'm afraid he will think I'm trying to not take responsibility for it by using the excuse that I was drunk. Anyone have any advice or experience in this kind of situation? I love my husband and really don't want to lose my marriage or family.
I have never really thought of myself as an alcoholic until recently. I would have one or two drinks a couple of nights a week, but when I go out or am with friends I cannot control my bingeing. Recently I was at a friend's house without my husband after being out drinking. I only remember maybe 30 minutes or so, then I blacked out. After that I have flashes of memory of one of my "friends" having sex with me. I was not able to control my body enough to say no. I had flirted with him, but this was not something I wanted to happen. I saw a therapist and my physician soon after and they both insist it was assault/rape because I was too drunk to consent. I feel like I was assaulted, but I also feel like it is my fault for being so out of control. According to another friend that was there, I was super flirty and handsy with this guy in front of our other friends- who know my husband as well (I don't remember this at all).
I think I should tell my husband and be honest about what has happened and how I recognize my alcoholism now. I'm afraid he will think I'm trying to not take responsibility for it by using the excuse that I was drunk. Anyone have any advice or experience in this kind of situation? I love my husband and really don't want to lose my marriage or family.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 2,426
Dearest Everafter15, I'm so sorry that happened to you. That is a lot to sort out. You were assaulted if you couldn't consent. Please tell your husband and go to the police, although your therapist and physician may have already reported the matter to the police if they are required to. You are an alcoholic I think and that is tough enough to deal with, but that does not mean that you deserve to be assaulted. You are a full person that has as much value as anyone else. Please keep us posted on how you are doing. Can you make a plan to quit drinking and try to get that part figured out? Without a doubt, fully sober and clear headed will make dealing with the rest of it so much easier.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2019
Posts: 54
I think taking him with you to the therapist or physician would help quite a bit to explain.
An educated person, especially if one were a guy (sorry) might help to explain the whole consent. You'd still have the flirty stuff to explain .... been there. Lot's of times. Can really commiserate with everything you said. :-/
An educated person, especially if one were a guy (sorry) might help to explain the whole consent. You'd still have the flirty stuff to explain .... been there. Lot's of times. Can really commiserate with everything you said. :-/
Administrator
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Dancing in the Light
Posts: 61,476
I'm sorry that this happened to you.
In my opinion, you were assaulted and the man/men involved should be arrested. You did not consent. I hope that you go to the police.
That said, drinking and blacking out is a very dangerous situation for a woman to be in. I blacked out towards the end of my drinking days and it's a very scary situation.
In my opinion, you were assaulted and the man/men involved should be arrested. You did not consent. I hope that you go to the police.
That said, drinking and blacking out is a very dangerous situation for a woman to be in. I blacked out towards the end of my drinking days and it's a very scary situation.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 2,426
Life Goes On
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Baltimore, Maryland
Posts: 6,069
Hi Everafter,
I'm so glad you found us. This condition of out-of-control drinking can be so humiliating, demoralizing, and shame-inducing. It's terribly difficult to bear alone. I can only imagine what it must feel like to be going through what you are right now. And yes, I've been through it, but I was not married with a family at the time.
I think what you do next depends on your relationship with your husband and your prediction of what would actually happen if you were to tell him. I think Sam's suggestion that doing so with a therapist in the room to support you is a really great one. Not so sure that it needs to be a man, but maybe Sam is a man and knows better than I do since I'm speaking from a woman's perspective.
But about your husband. Are you two close friends? Do you fight fair? Does he accept that you're a human being and love you to the moon and back in spite of (or perhaps because of) that reality? Does he trust you? If those things are true, and you were my close friend, I would absolutely advise you to tell him - and soon. Depending on how well I knew him and whether I thought you needed the support, I'd also counsel you on the therapist-in-the-room thing. I'll bet you know whether that part is or is not a good idea/necessary or not already. If he isn't such a winner, then I'd probably advise you to work on yourself first and deal with the rest later.
All of the above notwithstanding, I think it's awesome and wonderful that you've recognized that you and alcohol have a severely dysfunctional relationship. I know it might not feel that way, but really, it's a great and monumental step. You don't say so, but I assume that means you intend to (or have already) quit? If that's the case, there's work to be done. Unfortunately for the vast majority of folks who drink more than they intend to, it seems that simply making up our minds doesn't do the trick.
There are lots of roads you can take if you're ready to be done drinking and we'll be happy to give you suggestions.
In the meantime, please believe your therapist and your doctor. You had no agency to consent.
I'm so glad you found us. This condition of out-of-control drinking can be so humiliating, demoralizing, and shame-inducing. It's terribly difficult to bear alone. I can only imagine what it must feel like to be going through what you are right now. And yes, I've been through it, but I was not married with a family at the time.
I think what you do next depends on your relationship with your husband and your prediction of what would actually happen if you were to tell him. I think Sam's suggestion that doing so with a therapist in the room to support you is a really great one. Not so sure that it needs to be a man, but maybe Sam is a man and knows better than I do since I'm speaking from a woman's perspective.
But about your husband. Are you two close friends? Do you fight fair? Does he accept that you're a human being and love you to the moon and back in spite of (or perhaps because of) that reality? Does he trust you? If those things are true, and you were my close friend, I would absolutely advise you to tell him - and soon. Depending on how well I knew him and whether I thought you needed the support, I'd also counsel you on the therapist-in-the-room thing. I'll bet you know whether that part is or is not a good idea/necessary or not already. If he isn't such a winner, then I'd probably advise you to work on yourself first and deal with the rest later.
All of the above notwithstanding, I think it's awesome and wonderful that you've recognized that you and alcohol have a severely dysfunctional relationship. I know it might not feel that way, but really, it's a great and monumental step. You don't say so, but I assume that means you intend to (or have already) quit? If that's the case, there's work to be done. Unfortunately for the vast majority of folks who drink more than they intend to, it seems that simply making up our minds doesn't do the trick.
There are lots of roads you can take if you're ready to be done drinking and we'll be happy to give you suggestions.
In the meantime, please believe your therapist and your doctor. You had no agency to consent.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,525
You were raped and it's not your fault. Please tell your husband so you can work through this together. It does sound like you need to work on your relationship with alcohol, and we are all here to help you with that but please, don't tell yourself that what happened to you is your fault.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Gainesville, Fl
Posts: 435
Yeah, tell your husband regardless of the marital situation. He deserves to know what happened to his wife. It sounds like outright rape.
Contrarily, it brings up a very sticky and controversial situation. She's admitted she blacked out and only has flashes. She may have "mentally" said no in one of those flashes, but it's entirely possibly that she did consent or even initiated the sex and has no memory of it. If you were raped, he should be in jail without question. But it would equally be a crime to put a man in jail who may not have had a clue you were blacked out when you could have possibly consented or enacted. I don't mean to imply you're lying or attempting to justify what happened, but the flash of memory could also be misleading and land an "innocent" guy, however much of a scumbag, in prison. Tread carefully.
I say this as a black out drunk who has had many occasions where I have no recollection of events for entire nights. I was just on auto pilot. And most of the people I was with or interacted with me had no clue of the state I was in. That's just one of the many reasons being a black out drunk is so dangerous. Not just what you don't remember, but that others don't often know either. I even have flashes of being pulled over in the middle of the night by police and fooling them. Don't remember why I got pulled over, the full discussion, or even when I got home....but I know it happened and I know I didn't end up in jail when I should have. If I can fool trained professionals.....
Contrarily, it brings up a very sticky and controversial situation. She's admitted she blacked out and only has flashes. She may have "mentally" said no in one of those flashes, but it's entirely possibly that she did consent or even initiated the sex and has no memory of it. If you were raped, he should be in jail without question. But it would equally be a crime to put a man in jail who may not have had a clue you were blacked out when you could have possibly consented or enacted. I don't mean to imply you're lying or attempting to justify what happened, but the flash of memory could also be misleading and land an "innocent" guy, however much of a scumbag, in prison. Tread carefully.
I say this as a black out drunk who has had many occasions where I have no recollection of events for entire nights. I was just on auto pilot. And most of the people I was with or interacted with me had no clue of the state I was in. That's just one of the many reasons being a black out drunk is so dangerous. Not just what you don't remember, but that others don't often know either. I even have flashes of being pulled over in the middle of the night by police and fooling them. Don't remember why I got pulled over, the full discussion, or even when I got home....but I know it happened and I know I didn't end up in jail when I should have. If I can fool trained professionals.....
Guest
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 7,097
This is such a tragic story. I also have memories of waking up and someone was having sex with me. I don't know if I said yes or not. I was often having blackouts - when I say blackouts I don't mean I was unconscious - I was conscious but just had no or little memory of it. As Abgator said it is a very very complex and controversial issues as I don't know if I did say yes or not. It shows how very dangerous it is for women to black out.
As for telling your husband, only you can decide that. It's a very difficult situation and it's good to hear you are seeing a therapist and getting help. I hope you can stop drinking so will never be in this sort of situation again.
As for telling your husband, only you can decide that. It's a very difficult situation and it's good to hear you are seeing a therapist and getting help. I hope you can stop drinking so will never be in this sort of situation again.
Ocean Lover!
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: You know nothing Jon Snow - UK
Posts: 2,604
I have had similar situations to ReadyatLast. I used to blackout a LOT and have little to no memory of the evening. When I spoke to others in the coming days they just thought I was drunk like they were and had no idea I was blackout drunk at that point. I have even had nights where everyone said I was brilliant fun and was fine, but they had no idea I was so drunk I can’t remember it. I’ve also have had my fair share of waking up in bed with someone and no idea how it came to be.
I really don’t know what to advise, but I think talking it through with a therapist is a great start. For me, not drinking was a great solution as the sober me has never woken up again in the same situation with no memory of what happened or how I got there. xx
I really don’t know what to advise, but I think talking it through with a therapist is a great start. For me, not drinking was a great solution as the sober me has never woken up again in the same situation with no memory of what happened or how I got there. xx
Life Goes On
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Baltimore, Maryland
Posts: 6,069
I just have to jump in again because I think abgator doesn't get it (sorry, man - no offense intended. Of course I know you mean well. But this attitude of "he deserves to know what happened to his wife?" uh, no - wives are not possessions of their husbands.) I sure hope this post doesn't get deleted as too argumentative, but I guess I'll understand if it does. I mean well, too. I just know that for me, often the most hurtful post is the one that "sticks." And it is hurtful to say or imply "you know, this could be your fault."
Everafter, again - whether you said or acted "yes," a person has no capacity to consent when they are blacked out. All the rest of it might be controversial, but I am certain that's a fact and don't ever want you to doubt yourself about that part. Please don't burden yourself with any guilt for somehow "consenting" to this act - "you" weren't there.
Everafter, again - whether you said or acted "yes," a person has no capacity to consent when they are blacked out. All the rest of it might be controversial, but I am certain that's a fact and don't ever want you to doubt yourself about that part. Please don't burden yourself with any guilt for somehow "consenting" to this act - "you" weren't there.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Posts: 324
I speak for myself, here. However I have done and said lots of things whilst I have been drunk that I cannot remember, and even seem to have appeared quite normal to other people. Therefore when people say the opening poster was 'too drunk to consent' I would have to know more about the circumstances. If she had passed out and woke up then, yes, that's definitely rape. But if she was otherwise functioning, but cannot remember certain events, then she may well have consented and appeared rational to her friend, who after all had probably had a few drinks himself.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Gainesville, Fl
Posts: 435
It in no way offends or bothers me. I hope it doesn't get deleted either as opinions here often do.
But I'm sorry, you are misguided on the blacked out part. No, she doesn't have a "capacity" to consent when blacked out. The problem is that no one is a f'n mind reader. It's quite often that no one else knows that we're blacked out. This is PC mentality to dismiss the responsibility for ones actions. By your very logic, had I been arrested for drunk driving while in a black out, I shouldn't have been arrested or held responsible because "I" wasn't present and didn't consent to driving drunk. And yes, it is the exact same reasoning.
It doesn't matter if "she" was mentally present. If she, to all outward appearances to others, consented....that is consent whether she remembers it or not. That's the evils of addiction. It's not like us black out drunks walk around with "Disregard me, I'm blacked out" written on our foreheads. And the simple fact is, she doesn't know if she consented or not.
It may be hurtful, but that's reality and needs to be taken into account before you consider ruining a mans life who, for all he knows, was having sex with a willing participant. Any rational personal would take this into consideration.
But I'm sorry, you are misguided on the blacked out part. No, she doesn't have a "capacity" to consent when blacked out. The problem is that no one is a f'n mind reader. It's quite often that no one else knows that we're blacked out. This is PC mentality to dismiss the responsibility for ones actions. By your very logic, had I been arrested for drunk driving while in a black out, I shouldn't have been arrested or held responsible because "I" wasn't present and didn't consent to driving drunk. And yes, it is the exact same reasoning.
It doesn't matter if "she" was mentally present. If she, to all outward appearances to others, consented....that is consent whether she remembers it or not. That's the evils of addiction. It's not like us black out drunks walk around with "Disregard me, I'm blacked out" written on our foreheads. And the simple fact is, she doesn't know if she consented or not.
It may be hurtful, but that's reality and needs to be taken into account before you consider ruining a mans life who, for all he knows, was having sex with a willing participant. Any rational personal would take this into consideration.
Life Goes On
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Baltimore, Maryland
Posts: 6,069
Don't get me wrong, I've also been blacked out and probably appeared to be completely "normal" to the outside eye.
Thanks, but I'm not in the least bit misguided. Your drunk driving analogy doesn't fit "my" logic. I said nothing about throwing the bum in jail; I don't have nearly enough information to form an opinion on whether that even makes sense or whether he even is a bum.
Anyhow, I think the bottom line is that Everafter has come to a really important realization about her drinking. It can lead to devastating consequences - and it is her responsibility to ensure that she never puts herself at risk like this again.
Back to the most important person in the room:
Everafter, we are all here to support you in your efforts to make the break with alcohol that I'm assuming you want to make.
Thanks, but I'm not in the least bit misguided. Your drunk driving analogy doesn't fit "my" logic. I said nothing about throwing the bum in jail; I don't have nearly enough information to form an opinion on whether that even makes sense or whether he even is a bum.
Anyhow, I think the bottom line is that Everafter has come to a really important realization about her drinking. It can lead to devastating consequences - and it is her responsibility to ensure that she never puts herself at risk like this again.
Back to the most important person in the room:
Everafter, we are all here to support you in your efforts to make the break with alcohol that I'm assuming you want to make.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Toronto
Posts: 3,195
You should tread carefully as far as accusing a man with sexual assault. If you had a 'blackout', then there is really no way to know if you consented or not. I saw these situations happen time and time again when I was a university student. Any decent defense lawyer could poke a lot of holes in your account if you were to pursue rape charges. Just urge you to think things through.
I've had many blackouts and gotten myself in dangerous, troublesome situations (not involving sex). Ended up in court for some but due to the level of my intoxication on the given occasion, I had no leg to stand on.
I've had many blackouts and gotten myself in dangerous, troublesome situations (not involving sex). Ended up in court for some but due to the level of my intoxication on the given occasion, I had no leg to stand on.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Posts: 324
Originally Posted by Obladi 
We were cross-posting - let me see if I can edit quick to make this fit...
Don't get me wrong, I've also been blacked out and probably appeared to be completely "normal" to the outside eye.
But that doesn't mean I have the capacity to consent.
And if the guy is her friend, shouldn't he have known better???
Anyhow, I think the bottom line is that Everafter has come to a really important realization about her drinking. It can lead to devastating consequences - and it is her responsibility to ensure that she never puts herself at risk like this again.
And we are all here to support her in her efforts to make that happen.
p.s. I said nothing about throwing the bum in jail; I don't have nearly enough information to form an opinion on whether that even makes sense or whether he even is a bum.
Don't get me wrong, I've also been blacked out and probably appeared to be completely "normal" to the outside eye.
But that doesn't mean I have the capacity to consent.
And if the guy is her friend, shouldn't he have known better???
Anyhow, I think the bottom line is that Everafter has come to a really important realization about her drinking. It can lead to devastating consequences - and it is her responsibility to ensure that she never puts herself at risk like this again.
And we are all here to support her in her efforts to make that happen.
p.s. I said nothing about throwing the bum in jail; I don't have nearly enough information to form an opinion on whether that even makes sense or whether he even is a bum.
The opening poster's friend may well have been quite drunk himself, perhaps more drunk than her. The opening poster described her behaviour as 'super flirty and handsy', so I think it's quite reasonable to speculate that she might well have consented to sexual activity and cannot remember doing so.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 2
Thank you all for the supportive replies. Yes, I do want to quit drinking. I hope to find an AA meeting near me after telling my husband what happened.
What you all have been debating is the same debate I have been having with myself. No, I don't plan to go to the police, because I do think that I appeared to him to consent. He was drinking, but I don't know how drunk he was. I have thought the exact same thing someone else said, if I would have gotten behind the wheel I would have been held responsible, so why would this be any different? I'm trying to not beat myself up too much, as I can't change what happened in the past, just what I do from here on out.
I'm really not sure how my husband will react. We are close, like best friends, but don't always communicate well. I just keep praying that whatever happens I can stay sober and I'll be ok. Thank you again.
What you all have been debating is the same debate I have been having with myself. No, I don't plan to go to the police, because I do think that I appeared to him to consent. He was drinking, but I don't know how drunk he was. I have thought the exact same thing someone else said, if I would have gotten behind the wheel I would have been held responsible, so why would this be any different? I'm trying to not beat myself up too much, as I can't change what happened in the past, just what I do from here on out.
I'm really not sure how my husband will react. We are close, like best friends, but don't always communicate well. I just keep praying that whatever happens I can stay sober and I'll be ok. Thank you again.
Life Goes On
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Baltimore, Maryland
Posts: 6,069
Oh good that you want to stop drinking.
You sound like you are feeling fairly balanced. At least as much as you can be at this point.
I do hope you continue to hang out with us.
As you see, we are a lively and supportive bunch.
You sound like you are feeling fairly balanced. At least as much as you can be at this point.
I do hope you continue to hang out with us.
As you see, we are a lively and supportive bunch.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Posts: 324
Originally Posted by Everafter15
Thank you all for the supportive replies. Yes, I do want to quit drinking. I hope to find an AA meeting near me after telling my husband what happened.
What you all have been debating is the same debate I have been having with myself. No, I don't plan to go to the police, because I do think that I appeared to him to consent. He was drinking, but I don't know how drunk he was. I have thought the exact same thing someone else said, if I would have gotten behind the wheel I would have been held responsible, so why would this be any different? I'm trying to not beat myself up too much, as I can't change what happened in the past, just what I do from here on out.
I'm really not sure how my husband will react. We are close, like best friends, but don't always communicate well. I just keep praying that whatever happens I can stay sober and I'll be ok. Thank you again.
What you all have been debating is the same debate I have been having with myself. No, I don't plan to go to the police, because I do think that I appeared to him to consent. He was drinking, but I don't know how drunk he was. I have thought the exact same thing someone else said, if I would have gotten behind the wheel I would have been held responsible, so why would this be any different? I'm trying to not beat myself up too much, as I can't change what happened in the past, just what I do from here on out.
I'm really not sure how my husband will react. We are close, like best friends, but don't always communicate well. I just keep praying that whatever happens I can stay sober and I'll be ok. Thank you again.
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,385
Hi Everafter - welcome
whether you remember it or not, sex with someone who is incapable of giving consent is rape.
No one asks to be raped, drink or sober.
To go to the police or tell your husband is up to you but honestly? I hope you'll do both.
If you want someone to talk to, no strings attached, this is a good resource
https://www.rainn.org
All that being said your drinking seems to have become dangerous for you, or it's putting you in dangerous situations and that's where I think your personal responsibility kicks in here.
I hope you'll think about quitting for good.
D
whether you remember it or not, sex with someone who is incapable of giving consent is rape.
No one asks to be raped, drink or sober.
Alcohol is the most common drug used in sexual assaults. It is readily and legally available. The side-effects of alcohol consumption can include impaired decision making and perceptions, memory loss, loss of consciousness and coordination. These may make a person more vulnerable than when they are sober.
The choice to take advantage of a persons’ vulnerability due to alcohol intoxication is the choice of the perpetrator.
A perpetrator may deliberately target you because you are intoxicated whether through your own voluntary consumption of alcohol or other drugs, or because they have facilitated your intoxication as part of a plan to sexually assault you.
It does not matter whether you were drinking alcohol and/or took the drug/s yourself, or were drugged without knowing it; sex with a person who is seriously impaired or incapacitated due to alcohol or drugs is rape.
https://www.rapecrisishelp.ie/how-we...n-i-was-raped/
The choice to take advantage of a persons’ vulnerability due to alcohol intoxication is the choice of the perpetrator.
A perpetrator may deliberately target you because you are intoxicated whether through your own voluntary consumption of alcohol or other drugs, or because they have facilitated your intoxication as part of a plan to sexually assault you.
It does not matter whether you were drinking alcohol and/or took the drug/s yourself, or were drugged without knowing it; sex with a person who is seriously impaired or incapacitated due to alcohol or drugs is rape.
https://www.rapecrisishelp.ie/how-we...n-i-was-raped/
If you want someone to talk to, no strings attached, this is a good resource
https://www.rainn.org
All that being said your drinking seems to have become dangerous for you, or it's putting you in dangerous situations and that's where I think your personal responsibility kicks in here.
I hope you'll think about quitting for good.
D
Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
