The Last Straw (Please, no judgement)
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Join Date: Jun 2019
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The Last Straw (Please, no judgement)
I know I am a person who has said on this forum several times now that I'm done. I've used a lot of words here and with my AH, and I'm finally ready to take my words into action.
The last thread I started on here was me complaining and in shock that my AH had FOUR 24-oz beers at an extended family dinner we had at a restaurant the night before Thanksgiving. Prior to that we'd had many discussions about the importance of him moderating and showing me he could moderate and him trying to prove to me he had control over his drinking. Stupid me, I'd let him talk me into 'one more time' - really it was at the suggestion of his therapist when we went together that I let him have this 'one more time' because my AH felt enlightened himself and wanted to pay attention to his own drinking, how he felt when he was drinking, whether it was controlling him, yada yada yada.
So of course I got pissed about the 100oz of beer and he somehow convinced me that he thought I meant he just had to be in control of himself and his actions when he drinks, no matter how much he drinks, in order to show me he can moderate and for him to build trust with me............ no no, I told him that's not at all what we were doing and that he was supposed to be having a max of 2 drinks (which we'd discussed but he seemed to be unaware of...)
So things were going fine until Friday when he poured a glass of wine in front of me, left it full, and as he was outside grilling our dinner was drinking a spiked selzer (not trying to hide, was in plain sight). And I walked out there and said 'what in the world are you doing' and explained to him that it makes me super uncomfortable to just see him from afar drinking something else while he's got a drink inside, it felt like he was hiding. He said oh okay, I'll do better.
So the next day, at the advice of the therapist (same guy and same session who said I should give him 'one more chance') said I should have something formal written out explaining the expectations and what would happen if he broke them. I hadn't written this out yet, but I did Saturday morning. Here's what it said:
"I, XXXXXX, agree to the following in order to re-built the trust I have broken in our marriage.
1. There will be at least 2 nights per Sunday-Saturday period where I have 0 alcoholic drinks.
2. I will only drink at most 2 drinks in a given day. A drink is defined as a single 12oz beer, a single 12oz selzer, or a 6oz glass of wine.
3. I will not drink liquor unless specifically discussed with my wife beforehand with her blessing and at that time we will agree upon the quantity.
4. I will not drink on an empty stomach.
5. I will not have my first drink before walking in the door to the house from work.
6. I will always drink in front of my wife and will not sneak or hide drinking away from her. This means being in the same room as her when first drinking that specific alcoholic beverage.
7. There will never be a time when my wife has to ask me 'have you been drinking?' and the answer is yes.
8. I will not drink any alcoholic beverage at the office.
9. There will not ever be a time when I will be unaware of the number of drinks I've consumed.
10. If there is a time I'd like to drink more than 2 drinks, I will discuss with my wife beforehand and receive her blessing before I drink anything.
11. I will never do drugs. I am aware this means immediate filing for divorce.
If I break any of these agreements I know that I must move out of our house immediately and that my wife will make plans to move herself and the kids back to our hometown."
He read over this and with some hesitation said 'fine we can try it'........ This was Saturday morning.
So Sunday rolls around. We go to church and go to lunch at a nice outdoor restaurant where we live. He asks if he can have a beer and I say sure, a normal 12oz beer and he said no he wants a big one and I said well as long as it's the equivalent of 2 beers and you don't ask for anything else today, then whatever. He gets his beer, it appears to be bigger than 24oz and I ask him how many oz that is and he says he didn't ask how many oz and I just keep the peace and eat lunch with my family.
So last night, Sunday night, we decide to order dinner and I need to go pick it up (because he drank earlier in the day and doesn't want to risk his breathelizer failing). So I agree and leave at 5 or so. I have to run an errand so it takes me about an hour to get back home. 10 min or so before I get home I call him to tell him I have the food and that I'm excited about a new store I see going in here. Then for whatever reason I ask him if he's had anything to drink (I have a 6th sense about this) and his immediate response was absolutely not but I'd planned to ask your permission to have a beer with dinner. And I told him I'd say no if he asked.
I get home and I can tell he'd been drinking. I ask him MANY times to tell me the truth (if you've read any of my previous posts this has happened to me way too often) and he insists he has not been drinking, I'm wrong and paranoid. Then I ask him go start his car and prove it to me. He refuses, because of that beer he had about 6 hours ago. Says he cannot believe I'd make him risk his license by having him blow into that thing. I KNOW he's drank, I told him I don't trust him and I don't know how we ever have a trusting or intimate relationship ever again if he cannot just tell me the truth and we just need to separate. I ask him once more to sign that document I'd printed out and he refuses, says he doesn't agree with it. I also impulsively bought a breathalizer on amazon last night out of anger. I put my children down to bed and we go our separate ways that night.
I wake up this morning and we all pretend for a bit things are fine. My middle child who is 4 tells me last night that daddy let him have coke during our daddy time. I say oh really? And what did daddy have while you were having your secret coke? 'He had TWO raspberry drinks!! TWO!' he says excitedly. Yep, those are his raspberry selzers.
I pull my AH into our bedroom and ask him one more time, give him one more chance to tell me the truth about last night and he says 'I didn't REALLY drink anything' and he just stares at me, hoping that will work. What does that even mean?! I proceed to tell him that I'm certain that he drank, told him what my 4 year old said, and then he continues to tell me it doesn't count. Like seriously, what?! So I tell him I'm taking the kids back home the day after Christmas and he needs to find somewhere to live. He says he's not leaving, and I tell him that means I'll have to file for divorce quicker then if he just leaves and gives me some breathing room or us to sort things out. I didn't want to hear any more BS from him so I left the room.
I leave to take my kids to school.
Then our text exchange goes like this:
AH: Well you didn't want to hear me talk so I guess I'll write this. What I was trying to say was that I was that I had been thinking a lot this morning about the decision I made. I was upset about you telling me I couldn't drink and did so to prove my independence, immediately after I regretted it. I was sick to my stomach about it because I knew I was in the wrong. I knew I should not have done it and spent a whole lot of time soul searching this morning about whether or not I drank the drinks because I really wanted the drinks or because I felt emasculated by having a leash put on me, then it went circular about whether or not I deserved the leash, etc.
What I ultimately came up with was that I needed to take more time off both for myself and my family and really try to explore my motivations.
You can breathalyze me all you want. You can talk to lawyers, you can yell at me all you want, we can sleep in separate rooms, but do not file for divorce just yet.
me: I will no longer consider your excuses. You are an alcoholic in denial and I choose not to live this way anymore. You have every resource available to you over the past year, AA, a therapist, anything and you continue to choose denial. I am just done. We will continue this next week and a half as if things are normal and I will take the kids back home after Christmas by myself.
AH: You have to think more practically then that. They will be uprooted from their school, their life. They need to at least finish out the year.
Me: you are right, we will definitely come back and you need to find somewhere else to go. I am not going to screw up their life halfway through the year because of your poor choices.
AH: I'll sign the agreement as is and if i break it, I'll find somewhere else to stay. That is the only way I will move out.
If I can live up to it until the end of the year with the exception of the Christmas party then you hold off on filing for divorce.
We then go month to month after that and revisit in May.
Me: No. No more agreements. You're an alcoholic in denial, you lie. I've already given you too many ''one more chances". You either see now that you are a person who needs help that I cannot give you or you don't . Sounds like you don't. And I will not be in a relationship like this any longer. Go talk to your therapist.
I've tried so hard to keep our family together, I feel like I've given it my all here and given him so many chances and I have nothing left to give.
I am waiting on a lawyer to call me today to figure out where to go from here.
The last thread I started on here was me complaining and in shock that my AH had FOUR 24-oz beers at an extended family dinner we had at a restaurant the night before Thanksgiving. Prior to that we'd had many discussions about the importance of him moderating and showing me he could moderate and him trying to prove to me he had control over his drinking. Stupid me, I'd let him talk me into 'one more time' - really it was at the suggestion of his therapist when we went together that I let him have this 'one more time' because my AH felt enlightened himself and wanted to pay attention to his own drinking, how he felt when he was drinking, whether it was controlling him, yada yada yada.
So of course I got pissed about the 100oz of beer and he somehow convinced me that he thought I meant he just had to be in control of himself and his actions when he drinks, no matter how much he drinks, in order to show me he can moderate and for him to build trust with me............ no no, I told him that's not at all what we were doing and that he was supposed to be having a max of 2 drinks (which we'd discussed but he seemed to be unaware of...)
So things were going fine until Friday when he poured a glass of wine in front of me, left it full, and as he was outside grilling our dinner was drinking a spiked selzer (not trying to hide, was in plain sight). And I walked out there and said 'what in the world are you doing' and explained to him that it makes me super uncomfortable to just see him from afar drinking something else while he's got a drink inside, it felt like he was hiding. He said oh okay, I'll do better.
So the next day, at the advice of the therapist (same guy and same session who said I should give him 'one more chance') said I should have something formal written out explaining the expectations and what would happen if he broke them. I hadn't written this out yet, but I did Saturday morning. Here's what it said:
"I, XXXXXX, agree to the following in order to re-built the trust I have broken in our marriage.
1. There will be at least 2 nights per Sunday-Saturday period where I have 0 alcoholic drinks.
2. I will only drink at most 2 drinks in a given day. A drink is defined as a single 12oz beer, a single 12oz selzer, or a 6oz glass of wine.
3. I will not drink liquor unless specifically discussed with my wife beforehand with her blessing and at that time we will agree upon the quantity.
4. I will not drink on an empty stomach.
5. I will not have my first drink before walking in the door to the house from work.
6. I will always drink in front of my wife and will not sneak or hide drinking away from her. This means being in the same room as her when first drinking that specific alcoholic beverage.
7. There will never be a time when my wife has to ask me 'have you been drinking?' and the answer is yes.
8. I will not drink any alcoholic beverage at the office.
9. There will not ever be a time when I will be unaware of the number of drinks I've consumed.
10. If there is a time I'd like to drink more than 2 drinks, I will discuss with my wife beforehand and receive her blessing before I drink anything.
11. I will never do drugs. I am aware this means immediate filing for divorce.
If I break any of these agreements I know that I must move out of our house immediately and that my wife will make plans to move herself and the kids back to our hometown."
He read over this and with some hesitation said 'fine we can try it'........ This was Saturday morning.
So Sunday rolls around. We go to church and go to lunch at a nice outdoor restaurant where we live. He asks if he can have a beer and I say sure, a normal 12oz beer and he said no he wants a big one and I said well as long as it's the equivalent of 2 beers and you don't ask for anything else today, then whatever. He gets his beer, it appears to be bigger than 24oz and I ask him how many oz that is and he says he didn't ask how many oz and I just keep the peace and eat lunch with my family.
So last night, Sunday night, we decide to order dinner and I need to go pick it up (because he drank earlier in the day and doesn't want to risk his breathelizer failing). So I agree and leave at 5 or so. I have to run an errand so it takes me about an hour to get back home. 10 min or so before I get home I call him to tell him I have the food and that I'm excited about a new store I see going in here. Then for whatever reason I ask him if he's had anything to drink (I have a 6th sense about this) and his immediate response was absolutely not but I'd planned to ask your permission to have a beer with dinner. And I told him I'd say no if he asked.
I get home and I can tell he'd been drinking. I ask him MANY times to tell me the truth (if you've read any of my previous posts this has happened to me way too often) and he insists he has not been drinking, I'm wrong and paranoid. Then I ask him go start his car and prove it to me. He refuses, because of that beer he had about 6 hours ago. Says he cannot believe I'd make him risk his license by having him blow into that thing. I KNOW he's drank, I told him I don't trust him and I don't know how we ever have a trusting or intimate relationship ever again if he cannot just tell me the truth and we just need to separate. I ask him once more to sign that document I'd printed out and he refuses, says he doesn't agree with it. I also impulsively bought a breathalizer on amazon last night out of anger. I put my children down to bed and we go our separate ways that night.
I wake up this morning and we all pretend for a bit things are fine. My middle child who is 4 tells me last night that daddy let him have coke during our daddy time. I say oh really? And what did daddy have while you were having your secret coke? 'He had TWO raspberry drinks!! TWO!' he says excitedly. Yep, those are his raspberry selzers.
I pull my AH into our bedroom and ask him one more time, give him one more chance to tell me the truth about last night and he says 'I didn't REALLY drink anything' and he just stares at me, hoping that will work. What does that even mean?! I proceed to tell him that I'm certain that he drank, told him what my 4 year old said, and then he continues to tell me it doesn't count. Like seriously, what?! So I tell him I'm taking the kids back home the day after Christmas and he needs to find somewhere to live. He says he's not leaving, and I tell him that means I'll have to file for divorce quicker then if he just leaves and gives me some breathing room or us to sort things out. I didn't want to hear any more BS from him so I left the room.
I leave to take my kids to school.
Then our text exchange goes like this:
AH: Well you didn't want to hear me talk so I guess I'll write this. What I was trying to say was that I was that I had been thinking a lot this morning about the decision I made. I was upset about you telling me I couldn't drink and did so to prove my independence, immediately after I regretted it. I was sick to my stomach about it because I knew I was in the wrong. I knew I should not have done it and spent a whole lot of time soul searching this morning about whether or not I drank the drinks because I really wanted the drinks or because I felt emasculated by having a leash put on me, then it went circular about whether or not I deserved the leash, etc.
What I ultimately came up with was that I needed to take more time off both for myself and my family and really try to explore my motivations.
You can breathalyze me all you want. You can talk to lawyers, you can yell at me all you want, we can sleep in separate rooms, but do not file for divorce just yet.
me: I will no longer consider your excuses. You are an alcoholic in denial and I choose not to live this way anymore. You have every resource available to you over the past year, AA, a therapist, anything and you continue to choose denial. I am just done. We will continue this next week and a half as if things are normal and I will take the kids back home after Christmas by myself.
AH: You have to think more practically then that. They will be uprooted from their school, their life. They need to at least finish out the year.
Me: you are right, we will definitely come back and you need to find somewhere else to go. I am not going to screw up their life halfway through the year because of your poor choices.
AH: I'll sign the agreement as is and if i break it, I'll find somewhere else to stay. That is the only way I will move out.
If I can live up to it until the end of the year with the exception of the Christmas party then you hold off on filing for divorce.
We then go month to month after that and revisit in May.
Me: No. No more agreements. You're an alcoholic in denial, you lie. I've already given you too many ''one more chances". You either see now that you are a person who needs help that I cannot give you or you don't . Sounds like you don't. And I will not be in a relationship like this any longer. Go talk to your therapist.
I've tried so hard to keep our family together, I feel like I've given it my all here and given him so many chances and I have nothing left to give.
I am waiting on a lawyer to call me today to figure out where to go from here.
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Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 1,618
WOW. So much going on here! It sounds like you have really reached the end of your desire to be the Alcohol Police (my head was spinning just trying to keep track of all the negotiations - a big beer vs a small one, spritzers outside vs wine inside, emasculation and leashes, "I thought you meant" vs "what I said", complicated contracts, etc etc). It sounds like a full time job just keeping up with his drinking. But you can resign from that job.
The hedging, bargaining and deflecting are all very familiar to me. So is the proliferation of contracts, agreements, and "one-more-chances". Alcoholics are brilliant lawyers, they will be able to find a loophole in anything that will protect their ability to drink and put off the day when they will have to choose alcohol over everything else in their life.
I am really glad you're saying "no". This dude is clearly not ready to be done, and he's gotten so used to lying and breaking promises that he probably doesn't even realize he's doing it any more. You can get yourself and the kids out of it - and leave him to carry on with his dramatic, complicated, intense and exciting relationship with his best friend, alcohol.
Two things which might happen:
1. You'll get a lot of anger from him - because you have taken away his ability to maintain the appearance of being just a normal dad and husband and also drink to his heart's content at the same time. He wants to have both, you are the person saying he can't have both.
2. He may spiral downwards pretty rapidly - there's the emotional stress of having your wife leave you, plus the new freedom of not even having to hide or pretend he's not drinking. Put the two together and the result may not be pretty.
Not saying that either of these will happen for sure - just that these things have happened with other people in similar situations.
Much sympathy and support to you. Many people on this board have been where you are now and understand what you're going through.
The hedging, bargaining and deflecting are all very familiar to me. So is the proliferation of contracts, agreements, and "one-more-chances". Alcoholics are brilliant lawyers, they will be able to find a loophole in anything that will protect their ability to drink and put off the day when they will have to choose alcohol over everything else in their life.
I am really glad you're saying "no". This dude is clearly not ready to be done, and he's gotten so used to lying and breaking promises that he probably doesn't even realize he's doing it any more. You can get yourself and the kids out of it - and leave him to carry on with his dramatic, complicated, intense and exciting relationship with his best friend, alcohol.
Two things which might happen:
1. You'll get a lot of anger from him - because you have taken away his ability to maintain the appearance of being just a normal dad and husband and also drink to his heart's content at the same time. He wants to have both, you are the person saying he can't have both.
2. He may spiral downwards pretty rapidly - there's the emotional stress of having your wife leave you, plus the new freedom of not even having to hide or pretend he's not drinking. Put the two together and the result may not be pretty.
Not saying that either of these will happen for sure - just that these things have happened with other people in similar situations.
Much sympathy and support to you. Many people on this board have been where you are now and understand what you're going through.
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Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Chicago
Posts: 5,450
No judgment from me, FWN. It takes what it takes. I'm sorry it has come to this, but it does seem very clear that he is in no way done with drinking.
He wants what all alcoholics want, sadly. He wants to drink without negative consequences. He'll negotiate until the cows come home to achieve that. You and your children don't need to be party to it any longer.
He wants what all alcoholics want, sadly. He wants to drink without negative consequences. He'll negotiate until the cows come home to achieve that. You and your children don't need to be party to it any longer.
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Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Northwest
Posts: 4,215
I am so sorry for what you’re going through.
FWIW, your therapist doesn’t sound very well trained in addiction by drawing up that complicated “contract.” Putting you in charge of policing his intake was a failure before you left his office. Anybody on this forum could have told him that.
Maybe he assumed it would fail and that it might help you see the situation for what it is, but you already knew, so...
You know what is best for you and your children. Focus on that, yes?
Sending you a big hug...
FWIW, your therapist doesn’t sound very well trained in addiction by drawing up that complicated “contract.” Putting you in charge of policing his intake was a failure before you left his office. Anybody on this forum could have told him that.
Maybe he assumed it would fail and that it might help you see the situation for what it is, but you already knew, so...
You know what is best for you and your children. Focus on that, yes?
Sending you a big hug...
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Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 316
He came home for lunch and immediately started writing down on a piece of paper “I will not have anything to drink other unless my wife agrees to it to “and he signed the bottom.
I told him again no more agreements, he asked what he could do it make this better and for us to stay together and I said he needs help and he needs to stop drinking. I don’t know what else to say.
Short of me requiring him to do a breathalyzer every night at 5 PM and 8 PM and it to be zero, I don’t know what else to do.
I do not want to tear up family apart, what I really want is for him to get help.
I told him again no more agreements, he asked what he could do it make this better and for us to stay together and I said he needs help and he needs to stop drinking. I don’t know what else to say.
Short of me requiring him to do a breathalyzer every night at 5 PM and 8 PM and it to be zero, I don’t know what else to do.
I do not want to tear up family apart, what I really want is for him to get help.
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 16,246
fortworthnative…...I think your husband is giving you a demonstration that the fondest wish of every alcoholic is to be able to do controlled drinking....
Some will try, over and over, for years....before accepting that they can't. some never do realize it.....
Just like Sasha said...he will "negotiate" as long as you are willing to do so....
I am glad to hear that you are sticking to your boundaries....and, I'll bet that he will try to test you in every possible way.....so, get prepared...lol.....
He knows your soft spots and your hot buttons....and will probably push every one of them....
He is not doing this to deliberately hurt you...he is being an alcoholic who desperately...desperately wants/needs to drink. His alcoholic voice, inside his head, is unrelenting...it is speaking to him, at all times.....
I think it can be a great relief for you to be able to finally, put down the burden of policing, negotiating, hoping and praying.....
***fortworthnative…..for what it is worth....I believe, that, as l ong as you are willing to negotiate...he will not get any help in form of a treatment program. Your marriage is already being torn apart....to a great degree....A family is not defined by just having the people gathered under one roof....it is about the relationship among the persons, in the family. And, the atmosphere inside the home.
No one can predict if he ever will get the help he needs....but, it can, sometimes, help them get it sooner, if you get out of his way....
Some will try, over and over, for years....before accepting that they can't. some never do realize it.....
Just like Sasha said...he will "negotiate" as long as you are willing to do so....
I am glad to hear that you are sticking to your boundaries....and, I'll bet that he will try to test you in every possible way.....so, get prepared...lol.....
He knows your soft spots and your hot buttons....and will probably push every one of them....
He is not doing this to deliberately hurt you...he is being an alcoholic who desperately...desperately wants/needs to drink. His alcoholic voice, inside his head, is unrelenting...it is speaking to him, at all times.....
I think it can be a great relief for you to be able to finally, put down the burden of policing, negotiating, hoping and praying.....
***fortworthnative…..for what it is worth....I believe, that, as l ong as you are willing to negotiate...he will not get any help in form of a treatment program. Your marriage is already being torn apart....to a great degree....A family is not defined by just having the people gathered under one roof....it is about the relationship among the persons, in the family. And, the atmosphere inside the home.
No one can predict if he ever will get the help he needs....but, it can, sometimes, help them get it sooner, if you get out of his way....
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Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: The Beach
Posts: 1,106
FWN, I'm sorry it has come to this but I am glad you held firm to your boundary. It's so exhausting being the sober police. You have your hands full watching over three kids, you should not have to waste more energy monitoring a full grown adult. I hope soon you will be able to catch your breath.
I lived for a very long time with a spouse who said all the same kinds of things that yours says to you. My AXH knew he was an alcoholic but just felt entitled to drink so he lied, manipulated, twisted words and did what ever else it was he needed to do to get to get booze in his blood. I gave him so many "one last chances" I can't even fathom a guess at how many times I relented. Every single time it ended up the same way. He drank and he lied about it. Every.Single.Time.
He is still drinking his health away but I no longer have to watch it happen. I don't regret my decision to remove myself from his problems.
I hope you keep hanging out with us so we can help prop you up as you move forward through this stuff. It isn't easy, but it will be worth it.
I lived for a very long time with a spouse who said all the same kinds of things that yours says to you. My AXH knew he was an alcoholic but just felt entitled to drink so he lied, manipulated, twisted words and did what ever else it was he needed to do to get to get booze in his blood. I gave him so many "one last chances" I can't even fathom a guess at how many times I relented. Every single time it ended up the same way. He drank and he lied about it. Every.Single.Time.
He is still drinking his health away but I no longer have to watch it happen. I don't regret my decision to remove myself from his problems.
I hope you keep hanging out with us so we can help prop you up as you move forward through this stuff. It isn't easy, but it will be worth it.
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Join Date: Nov 2019
Posts: 122
No no no no
I'll chime in with my experience with using a breathalyzer. It does not work. My Q did that, bought the damn thing himself. I actually felt really sick at the idea of using it, I'm not his mother ffs. As soon as I dared use it when I suspected it, he did everything in his power to avoid using it. It was not worth the stress honestly.
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Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 1,618
Originally Posted by fortworthnative 
He came home for lunch and immediately started writing down on a piece of paper “I will not have anything to drink other unless my wife agrees to it to “and he signed the bottom.
I told him again no more agreements, he asked what he could do it make this better and for us to stay together and I said he needs help and he needs to stop drinking. I don’t know what else to say.
Short of me requiring him to do a breathalyzer every night at 5 PM and 8 PM and it to be zero, I don’t know what else to do.
I do not want to tear up family apart, what I really want is for him to get help.
I told him again no more agreements, he asked what he could do it make this better and for us to stay together and I said he needs help and he needs to stop drinking. I don’t know what else to say.
Short of me requiring him to do a breathalyzer every night at 5 PM and 8 PM and it to be zero, I don’t know what else to do.
I do not want to tear up family apart, what I really want is for him to get help.
This "agreement" would have put you in the role of Alcohol Guardian/Mommy - "Can I have a drink? Pleeeease? I'm going to have a beer, that's okay with you, right?". He drinks if he chooses to drink - he doesn't need and shouldn't ask for anyone's permission. And you are right to refuse to be put in the position of giving or withholding phony "permission".
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Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Chicago
Posts: 5,450
Even in this last-ditch attempt at an "agreement" he leaves himself an out:
"...unless my wife agrees to it."
I know you only want him to get help. But you must protect yourself and your kids untill he decides he wants that for himself.
"...unless my wife agrees to it."
I know you only want him to get help. But you must protect yourself and your kids untill he decides he wants that for himself.
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Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 8,637
Well FWN, certainly no judgement from me. This is a losing battle.
Now whether he does this on purpose or not, who knows, he has been at this so long who knows how alcohol has affected his judgement and brain.
It couldn't be more blatant than if he was using a shell game to choose his alcohol.
I hope you will go back and re-read your perspective thread:
2014 - I am embarrassed of myself. I am going to do better. I know you have heard it before, but legitimate progress has been made this last month (not including the last two days).
2015 - I am sorry that I have gotten you to a place where you are done with me again. I'll try to do better.
2019 - He said oh okay, I'll do better
Doesn't really matter how he says it does it? It's meaningless. Actions, not words.
I think the therapist was on to something. Writing, in detail, all the rules about drinking is not a bad thing. Perhaps he realized they are not worth the paper they are written on and it was a test of your Husband's truthfulness? Regardless, it served its purpose.
By the way, you are not breaking up this family. Your Husband has well and truly done that over many years. Besides, families are not just everyone living together, he will just be living somewhere else. Your children will still see him and see him when he is SOBER, this is actually a good thing for your kids. It's actually a good thing for your Husband too, in terms of his relationship with them, but that is secondary.
You are going to be ok you know.
Now whether he does this on purpose or not, who knows, he has been at this so long who knows how alcohol has affected his judgement and brain.
It couldn't be more blatant than if he was using a shell game to choose his alcohol.
I hope you will go back and re-read your perspective thread:
2014 - I am embarrassed of myself. I am going to do better. I know you have heard it before, but legitimate progress has been made this last month (not including the last two days).
2015 - I am sorry that I have gotten you to a place where you are done with me again. I'll try to do better.
2019 - He said oh okay, I'll do better
Doesn't really matter how he says it does it? It's meaningless. Actions, not words.
I think the therapist was on to something. Writing, in detail, all the rules about drinking is not a bad thing. Perhaps he realized they are not worth the paper they are written on and it was a test of your Husband's truthfulness? Regardless, it served its purpose.
By the way, you are not breaking up this family. Your Husband has well and truly done that over many years. Besides, families are not just everyone living together, he will just be living somewhere else. Your children will still see him and see him when he is SOBER, this is actually a good thing for your kids. It's actually a good thing for your Husband too, in terms of his relationship with them, but that is secondary.
You are going to be ok you know.
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Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 316
Ughhhh I just got off the phone with a very good big city lawyer who I know has helped 2 different people I know.
It sounds like I'm trapped in this city, hours from where I want to be. I thought I could move my kids with my back to my hometown given that he has the DWI with child history and she said the courts want the kids to have access to both parents and that if he agreed to get help and use sober link that I wouldn't be allowed to move away. She said he'd have to agree to me moving with them.
What a huge mess. And the courts are now going to 50/50 custody more and more, I cannot IMAGINE only seeing my kids 50% of the time.
Ughhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. He's still here. And he wants to do the daily breathalyzer with me so we can 'work it out' - again I feel so trapped and I don't know what else to do but go along with it.
It sounds like I'm trapped in this city, hours from where I want to be. I thought I could move my kids with my back to my hometown given that he has the DWI with child history and she said the courts want the kids to have access to both parents and that if he agreed to get help and use sober link that I wouldn't be allowed to move away. She said he'd have to agree to me moving with them.
What a huge mess. And the courts are now going to 50/50 custody more and more, I cannot IMAGINE only seeing my kids 50% of the time.
Ughhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. He's still here. And he wants to do the daily breathalyzer with me so we can 'work it out' - again I feel so trapped and I don't know what else to do but go along with it.
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Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 1,618
Don't despair! You have options. They include:
1. Making plans to move back with your kids and leaving the onus on him to raise objections. It is possible he won't object.
2. If he does object, negotiating a parenting arrangement that will allow your kids to have "as much contact with their father as is consistent with their safety and well-being". Given that he has a DUI with a child in the car (I think? if I remember your story correctly), it would be reasonable for you to require that he provide "continuous disclosure" of his sobriety as condition of exercising access to the kids, whether this means having someone supervise his visits or using a reliable third-party monitoring system like SoberLink (and NOT one of the cheaper party-time breathalyzers). He only needs to be sober when the kids are with him - he can get as drunk as he wants the rest of the time, and you don't need to monitor his behaviour except when the kids are with him.
You absolutely do not have to try to "work it out" or agree to more contracts or promises or arrangements for you to police his drinking. All you have to do is create the conditions under which you can be confident that he isn't drunk when the kids are with him.
1. Making plans to move back with your kids and leaving the onus on him to raise objections. It is possible he won't object.
2. If he does object, negotiating a parenting arrangement that will allow your kids to have "as much contact with their father as is consistent with their safety and well-being". Given that he has a DUI with a child in the car (I think? if I remember your story correctly), it would be reasonable for you to require that he provide "continuous disclosure" of his sobriety as condition of exercising access to the kids, whether this means having someone supervise his visits or using a reliable third-party monitoring system like SoberLink (and NOT one of the cheaper party-time breathalyzers). He only needs to be sober when the kids are with him - he can get as drunk as he wants the rest of the time, and you don't need to monitor his behaviour except when the kids are with him.
You absolutely do not have to try to "work it out" or agree to more contracts or promises or arrangements for you to police his drinking. All you have to do is create the conditions under which you can be confident that he isn't drunk when the kids are with him.
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Join Date: May 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 13,560
I remember the bargains, the wheeling and dealing. It made ME feel crazy keeping up with all of it, like I was some sort of pro detective. It all ended up the exact same way, he kept drinking and I was left feeling angry and like I was losing my mind.
The one thing you can do is detatch. Do what you are going to do then focus on YOU and the kids. I personally would agree to his agreement with one clause. That if he does not fulfill his end, he agrees that you can move back to your hometown with the kids with no objection from him because you will need their support. That if he then wants access he can move himself.
I would get that in his writing.
Sending you lots of support and many hugs!
The one thing you can do is detatch. Do what you are going to do then focus on YOU and the kids. I personally would agree to his agreement with one clause. That if he does not fulfill his end, he agrees that you can move back to your hometown with the kids with no objection from him because you will need their support. That if he then wants access he can move himself.
I would get that in his writing.
Sending you lots of support and many hugs!
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Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Virginia
Posts: 469
FWN,
WOW, way to stick your boundaries and I'm sorry for what you are having to deal with with your AH. Also no judgments from me. You are correct in not giving him any more contracts. He is an alcoholic and he is just looking for anything that will somehow keep him in somewhat control. You being Alcohol Police is no where in your duties as a spouse. Even if you had decide to agree to his last contract.
What happens when he ask for a drink and you say no. He thinks "Your right Honey, what was I thinking, I should just have a glass of water instead". No, he is going to be grumpy that you didn't allow him to have a drink. Way to keep your boundaries on no more agreement.
You do what is best for you and your kids. If you have to move cause he is being a Stubborn ASP. That is better for the you and the kids. The kids will adapt. Yes,, it's no fun, but it's a whole lot better then living with an active alcoholic. You have given him chance after chance and have received nothing in return except heartache. I know you can do this. You are strong and will prevail. Have a good day and know your not alone in this.
WOW, way to stick your boundaries and I'm sorry for what you are having to deal with with your AH. Also no judgments from me. You are correct in not giving him any more contracts. He is an alcoholic and he is just looking for anything that will somehow keep him in somewhat control. You being Alcohol Police is no where in your duties as a spouse. Even if you had decide to agree to his last contract.
He came home for lunch and immediately started writing down on a piece of paper “I will not have anything to drink other unless my wife agrees to it to “and he signed the bottom.
You do what is best for you and your kids. If you have to move cause he is being a Stubborn ASP. That is better for the you and the kids. The kids will adapt. Yes,, it's no fun, but it's a whole lot better then living with an active alcoholic. You have given him chance after chance and have received nothing in return except heartache. I know you can do this. You are strong and will prevail. Have a good day and know your not alone in this.
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Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 8,637
Originally Posted by fortworthnative
I don't know what else to do but go along with it.
I strongly recommend stepping back here for a minute. You've had a shock after talking to the lawyer. That absolutely does not mean that things will not work out ok. Deep breath.
You are not trapped, please don't even think that. You are not a hostage. You are an individual in a bad situation. You are strong. You have been living this way so long FWN that is has played with your self assurance. It's one of the terrible facts. You can pull yourself up, you are smart and you have courage. Protect your children and yourself. You CAN absolutely separate yourself.
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