Sneaky Lying Liars
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Sneaky Lying Liars
My lawyer sent my XAH and in-laws a letter of intent about our move. XAH was supposedly homeless as far as I knew, but it turns out he was just living in their basement again and they didn't want me to know.
After three months of basically no contact with DD8, now they're all feeling sentimental and want to see her before we move out of state. I am two minds of it: I don't want to mess with them any further, I'm also running out the clock before we move in about three weeks, what's the harm.
So my XFIL contacts me last week to see if he and XMIL can see DD8 for a few hours. I say... sure. Then XAH emails me to see if he can tack himself onto this little visit. At this point I've been dragged because you can't assume any of these people are talking to each other, or representing any of our conversations adequately, so I just said, your folks said they wanted to see DD8 and I'd like to stick with the original plan. He says Okay.
DD8 goes off on this three hour visit, and in the space of three hours, the X-in laws managed to fit in a sneaky visit with my ex-sister in law, the one whose last contact with me was to hysterically scream at me because her parents found out she was talking to me. And they fit in a phone call with XAH to DD8, where he told her about all the progress he was making (note he's not even minutely pursuing any kind of treatment). DD8 is left with the impression that EVERYTHING IS FINE and despite them no-call-no-showing on her for three months that it's all hunky dory and they're trustworthy and great, no problems here at all. Supreme gaslighting, and as a little child, she is totally susceptible to these manipulations.
When I dropped her off there, they told me nothing of these plans, and said nothing to me when I picked her up. They were being super weird, wouldn't let me in the door and clearly did not want to talk to me - which is fine, but co-parenting and visitations require *some* communication which didn't happen. I made the decision on the fly to NOT blow up the whole thing in front of DD8 on their doorstep, but I didn't like it. And when on the ride home DD8 told me about how they snuck in a bunch of weird, enmeshed familial visits, I was livid. Like, all of you guys haven't seen or called her since August despite living two miles from me, and you spend the three hours you have orchestrating some carrot/stick situation with your sick family? UGH. You couldn't just play a board game and eat a sandwich and enjoy your limited time with your grandkid? Who you pretended doesn't exist since August?
Every interaction I have with them is so weird and gives me the willies. I know this is some small beans at this point, but they are SO WEIRD and every interaction is SO SICK, and I'm mad and sad and so frustrated about having to work with sick people so they sick people can manipulate me and my daughter because I'm compelled by the court. And the casual lying, manipulation, lying by omission, control of information stuff is just so messed up. Hate it, hate it, hate it.
Get me outta here.
After three months of basically no contact with DD8, now they're all feeling sentimental and want to see her before we move out of state. I am two minds of it: I don't want to mess with them any further, I'm also running out the clock before we move in about three weeks, what's the harm.
So my XFIL contacts me last week to see if he and XMIL can see DD8 for a few hours. I say... sure. Then XAH emails me to see if he can tack himself onto this little visit. At this point I've been dragged because you can't assume any of these people are talking to each other, or representing any of our conversations adequately, so I just said, your folks said they wanted to see DD8 and I'd like to stick with the original plan. He says Okay.
DD8 goes off on this three hour visit, and in the space of three hours, the X-in laws managed to fit in a sneaky visit with my ex-sister in law, the one whose last contact with me was to hysterically scream at me because her parents found out she was talking to me. And they fit in a phone call with XAH to DD8, where he told her about all the progress he was making (note he's not even minutely pursuing any kind of treatment). DD8 is left with the impression that EVERYTHING IS FINE and despite them no-call-no-showing on her for three months that it's all hunky dory and they're trustworthy and great, no problems here at all. Supreme gaslighting, and as a little child, she is totally susceptible to these manipulations.
When I dropped her off there, they told me nothing of these plans, and said nothing to me when I picked her up. They were being super weird, wouldn't let me in the door and clearly did not want to talk to me - which is fine, but co-parenting and visitations require *some* communication which didn't happen. I made the decision on the fly to NOT blow up the whole thing in front of DD8 on their doorstep, but I didn't like it. And when on the ride home DD8 told me about how they snuck in a bunch of weird, enmeshed familial visits, I was livid. Like, all of you guys haven't seen or called her since August despite living two miles from me, and you spend the three hours you have orchestrating some carrot/stick situation with your sick family? UGH. You couldn't just play a board game and eat a sandwich and enjoy your limited time with your grandkid? Who you pretended doesn't exist since August?
Every interaction I have with them is so weird and gives me the willies. I know this is some small beans at this point, but they are SO WEIRD and every interaction is SO SICK, and I'm mad and sad and so frustrated about having to work with sick people so they sick people can manipulate me and my daughter because I'm compelled by the court. And the casual lying, manipulation, lying by omission, control of information stuff is just so messed up. Hate it, hate it, hate it.
Get me outta here.
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they fit in a phone call with XAH to DD8, where he told her about all the progress he was making
It seems inappropriate to me for an adult to be reporting his progress to a child, (is she supposed to hold him accountable, like a sponsor for AA?)
DD8 is left with the impression that EVERYTHING IS FINE and despite them no-call-no-showing on her for three months that it's all hunky dory and they're trustworthy and great, no problems here at all.
On the other hand, if an 8-year-old thinks all is well with her family, what's the harm of that? She will be disappointed down the line, when (not if) Ex and his parents are no call / no shows for visits. You will need to manage her expectations, but that's often the case in divorce anyway.
It seems inappropriate to me for an adult to be reporting his progress to a child, (is she supposed to hold him accountable, like a sponsor for AA?)
DD8 is left with the impression that EVERYTHING IS FINE and despite them no-call-no-showing on her for three months that it's all hunky dory and they're trustworthy and great, no problems here at all.
On the other hand, if an 8-year-old thinks all is well with her family, what's the harm of that? She will be disappointed down the line, when (not if) Ex and his parents are no call / no shows for visits. You will need to manage her expectations, but that's often the case in divorce anyway.
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Your description brought to mind the Adam's Family (except they were nice-ish!).
Sorry you had to go through that and certainly sorry that they chose to use your Daughter for their own ends.
People are just so weird sometimes.
Your ex deciding to dump his "progress" on your Daughter, that kind of thing is the worst.
Hang in there, you are almost out of Dodge!
Sorry you had to go through that and certainly sorry that they chose to use your Daughter for their own ends.
People are just so weird sometimes.
Your ex deciding to dump his "progress" on your Daughter, that kind of thing is the worst.
Hang in there, you are almost out of Dodge!
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Location: W Washington
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as told the apostles somewhere in the Bible and paraphrasing - shake the dust off your sandals and leave them behind.
you did YOUR part. you gave them some time to see the child prior to leaving. you didn't HAVE to do that. and now it's done. it's kinda perfect in a strange way, as you now have a bit of additional motivation to get your thru the next few weeks. soon you'll be on the other side!
eyes on the prize!!! sally forth! tally ho! damn the torpedoes!
you did YOUR part. you gave them some time to see the child prior to leaving. you didn't HAVE to do that. and now it's done. it's kinda perfect in a strange way, as you now have a bit of additional motivation to get your thru the next few weeks. soon you'll be on the other side!
eyes on the prize!!! sally forth! tally ho! damn the torpedoes!
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The gd ex-sister in law just texted me wanting to "establish a relationship" with DD8 before we move in a few weeks. I am so frustrated and livid, lol, I am seething on this forum so I don't respond in anger.
DD8 has been here for the seven years since XAH and I separated wanting a relationship with her other family, and they have been fair weather at best. Things got tough for them for a few months and they totally disappeared on her, and now want to squeeze in a few hours so they can reconcile whatever guilt they have in their minds? GTFO.
I am so ******* mad. I feel jerked around. I'm tired of DD8 being in the middle of this. They have ten days to contest our move with the courts. How do I manage this in the meantime?
[How, reader, does a codie "damn the torpedoes?" Doesn't one worry about the torpedoes, fret and bargain with the torpedoes, and then seethe about how the torpedoes violated one's boundaries again? (cough)]
DD8 has been here for the seven years since XAH and I separated wanting a relationship with her other family, and they have been fair weather at best. Things got tough for them for a few months and they totally disappeared on her, and now want to squeeze in a few hours so they can reconcile whatever guilt they have in their minds? GTFO.
I am so ******* mad. I feel jerked around. I'm tired of DD8 being in the middle of this. They have ten days to contest our move with the courts. How do I manage this in the meantime?
[How, reader, does a codie "damn the torpedoes?" Doesn't one worry about the torpedoes, fret and bargain with the torpedoes, and then seethe about how the torpedoes violated one's boundaries again? (cough)]
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Join Date: Jan 2016
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Ugh.
Some people only want something if they think someone is taking it away from them. It’s about control, not affection.
First, call your attorney and get his/her advice?
My first thought is to stall. Take a day to respond to her text, apologize profusely and say how busy you all are this time of year. What are her plans for the holidays?
In other words, respond without responding. Then if she comes back at it with some visit suggestion (which no doubt involves more stealth time with the ex), stall, change the time and place, suggest a “girls lunch just the three of you” and whatever you end up having to do, assume you’re there, too. Show up with your daughter and stay. Public places only. Do it all by text and keep a copy.
They can’t accuse you of not letting “family” see her if it’s right there that you did. If they really cared about seeing her they wouldn’t mind where or when.
But talk to your lawyer first, yes?
P.S.This may not be damning the torpedoes, but I believe it is calling their bluff.
Some people only want something if they think someone is taking it away from them. It’s about control, not affection.
First, call your attorney and get his/her advice?
My first thought is to stall. Take a day to respond to her text, apologize profusely and say how busy you all are this time of year. What are her plans for the holidays?
In other words, respond without responding. Then if she comes back at it with some visit suggestion (which no doubt involves more stealth time with the ex), stall, change the time and place, suggest a “girls lunch just the three of you” and whatever you end up having to do, assume you’re there, too. Show up with your daughter and stay. Public places only. Do it all by text and keep a copy.
They can’t accuse you of not letting “family” see her if it’s right there that you did. If they really cared about seeing her they wouldn’t mind where or when.
But talk to your lawyer first, yes?
P.S.This may not be damning the torpedoes, but I believe it is calling their bluff.
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Well, they filed on the last day possible. So after a bit of back and forth by the lawyers, we meet on Wednesday to hammer out what visits going forward are going to look like. I keep reminding myself to keep my eyes on the big picture here, which is better life, more money, more freedom, more distance, better health. I may never sleep again from the stress, but I'm doing what I need to do.
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Oh, ugh. I’m so sorry.
I’m sure you and your lawyer have thought of this, but ask for Soberlink tests before, during and after any visits that involve him, which they all will. My guess is that this is all part of the family’s elaborate facade that he has no problem.
No overnights, for sure...that still makes me shudder.
If there’s no problem, they shouldn’t hesitate to agree, right?
Stay strong. Sending my admiration and a hug.
I’m sure you and your lawyer have thought of this, but ask for Soberlink tests before, during and after any visits that involve him, which they all will. My guess is that this is all part of the family’s elaborate facade that he has no problem.
No overnights, for sure...that still makes me shudder.
If there’s no problem, they shouldn’t hesitate to agree, right?
Stay strong. Sending my admiration and a hug.
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Ugh, what a mess. You are so much better off out of it!
And “reporting his progress” to an 8-yr-old is just a taste of what would have been in store for her as she grew up, being “recruited” into his alcoholic drama. Utterly inappropriate.
(My ex made “bets” with our daughter when she was a bit older than your DD - basically he bet that he would stop drinking and go to AA for six months and she bet that she would do whatever, eat her vegetables or do her homework for six months, and if either of them “failed”, the one one would have to give them ten dollars. So his ten-year-old daughter was drawn into guessing whether or not he was drinking and trying to find out if he had AA tokens - all because “we made a fun bet”. And when he inevitably relapsed, guess who felt guilty? He also told her that he “needed” her to live with him [and not with me] so that he could stop drinking. He drank because he missed her so much. THAT is what you’re saving your daughter from by leaving this man and his family).
And “reporting his progress” to an 8-yr-old is just a taste of what would have been in store for her as she grew up, being “recruited” into his alcoholic drama. Utterly inappropriate.
(My ex made “bets” with our daughter when she was a bit older than your DD - basically he bet that he would stop drinking and go to AA for six months and she bet that she would do whatever, eat her vegetables or do her homework for six months, and if either of them “failed”, the one one would have to give them ten dollars. So his ten-year-old daughter was drawn into guessing whether or not he was drinking and trying to find out if he had AA tokens - all because “we made a fun bet”. And when he inevitably relapsed, guess who felt guilty? He also told her that he “needed” her to live with him [and not with me] so that he could stop drinking. He drank because he missed her so much. THAT is what you’re saving your daughter from by leaving this man and his family).
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Ugh Sasha, that's so awful.
My Son (as a teen) became my ex's (the angry one) sounding board after the divorce.
It is so hugely destructive. I called him (more than once) and asked him to stop it. He didn't. It has now caused a rift between us. A few other things as well but that, I believe, was the set up, the foundation for it.
Who do you trust, your Dad or your Mom? How can you make that choice? When your Mom appears to be A-OK, moving forward, holding it together and the Dad is falling apart, who is in the wrong?
Just a terrible situation.
My Son (as a teen) became my ex's (the angry one) sounding board after the divorce.
It is so hugely destructive. I called him (more than once) and asked him to stop it. He didn't. It has now caused a rift between us. A few other things as well but that, I believe, was the set up, the foundation for it.
Who do you trust, your Dad or your Mom? How can you make that choice? When your Mom appears to be A-OK, moving forward, holding it together and the Dad is falling apart, who is in the wrong?
Just a terrible situation.
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