How and when to tell the kids about alcoholism..
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How and when to tell the kids about alcoholism..
My 4yr is picking up that there's something wrong. I think it's more his said breaking promises to quit smoking, very inconsistent about me. Says one thing and acts another. I've read everywhere that the sooner the child knows that THEY are not the problem.. The better. Also EXAH is going to flip.
If I tell him I'm going to speak to the kids.. He'll flip.
If I tell them without letting him know, he'll hear it through kids.. And flip.
If I tell him I'm going to speak to the kids.. He'll flip.
If I tell them without letting him know, he'll hear it through kids.. And flip.
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Originally Posted by dandylion 
Milano...….first of all...what does "flip" mean, as applied to him? What will he do.....will he become abusive in any way?
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Hey there.
Just wondering why your priority is your 4-year-old needing to be told about their father's alcoholism? If there is an active issue with the children's mental and physical safety around your ex-husband, you should make steps to protect them.
Do you have a family therapist?
Edit: Just looked through your profile. Condolences on your very difficult situation. I am hoping for a better outcome for you and your children.
Just wondering why your priority is your 4-year-old needing to be told about their father's alcoholism? If there is an active issue with the children's mental and physical safety around your ex-husband, you should make steps to protect them.
Do you have a family therapist?
Edit: Just looked through your profile. Condolences on your very difficult situation. I am hoping for a better outcome for you and your children.
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Originally Posted by dandylion
Milano.....I assume that you are not living in the same house as he is?
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I met with a child psychologist about this issue a few months ago. I wasn’t sure if I needed to tell the kid since her dad was clearly drinking again. The short version from his perspective was not to lie about it, but if I could keep her from being in his care while drunk that was better. He thought at this age talking about him being sick would make more sense to her (she didn’t have a concept of “drunk” yet). If your kid already understands drinking too much, rehab, etc, that would be different but if not, being general about it as this age might be better.
Not lying is a good thing, but 4 is young to explain alcoholism if it’s not already on his/her radar. I address disappointment head on, I just don’t use that word yet. Mine is also 4.
You said your therapist says tell the kid. You may want to talk to a kids therapist before going into detail.
Not lying is a good thing, but 4 is young to explain alcoholism if it’s not already on his/her radar. I address disappointment head on, I just don’t use that word yet. Mine is also 4.
You said your therapist says tell the kid. You may want to talk to a kids therapist before going into detail.
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I recently told my 4 and 6-year-old children about alcoholism. I felt like I had to because AH sustained a traumatic brain injury--most likely from a drunken fall. Somehow the kids leaped to the idea that a bad guy had hit their dad over the head. Just like when someone dies, we don't tell children that the person went to sleep, I similarly couldn't let them think that there were bad guys roaming the streets hitting innocent people on the head. I tried to explain alcoholism in age-appropriate terms. Because they are familiar with classmates/friends having peanut/food allergies, I explained alcoholism like an allergy. I basically told them that daddy is allergic to alcohol, that he shouldn't drink it, and when he does drink, he can act very strangely and not like the daddy that we know. I recall giving some examples. This, of course, led to a flurry of questions--e.g., why does he drink it if it makes him sick, is everyone allergic, etc. I just try to answer the questions as honestly and as simply as possible. I made it a health issue, and not a moral issue.
My 6-year-old gets it--except he keeps forgetting the word "alcohol" and instead calls it "olive oil." :-) I'm not so sure about the 4-year-old. But I'm glad I've introduced the concept. I really want there to be an open dialogue about alcoholism/addiction in my house. Since there's clearly a genetic predisposition to this disease, then I think education has to be early and often.
I did not consult AH before I told the kids. He doesn't live with us anymore. AH was not thrilled when he found out. But he also understands, on some level, that he's not in a position to complain. I will say--I was not entirely prepared for my 6-year-old to directly ask my AH whether he's had any "olive oil" today. But that's our reality now, and I'd rather DS speak up and ask questions about the things that are worrying him, than stay silent or not have to the language/tools to express himself.
My 6-year-old gets it--except he keeps forgetting the word "alcohol" and instead calls it "olive oil." :-) I'm not so sure about the 4-year-old. But I'm glad I've introduced the concept. I really want there to be an open dialogue about alcoholism/addiction in my house. Since there's clearly a genetic predisposition to this disease, then I think education has to be early and often.
I did not consult AH before I told the kids. He doesn't live with us anymore. AH was not thrilled when he found out. But he also understands, on some level, that he's not in a position to complain. I will say--I was not entirely prepared for my 6-year-old to directly ask my AH whether he's had any "olive oil" today. But that's our reality now, and I'd rather DS speak up and ask questions about the things that are worrying him, than stay silent or not have to the language/tools to express himself.
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Milano...….In reference to him " flipping" and directing verbal abuse and criticisms toward you......it might help if you remember not to JADE.....J-justify A-argue D-defend E-explain. When you are interacting with him.
Of course, this might mean that you will have to greatly curtail your conversing with him except for the very most essential exchanges about the kids/business. It means that you might have to simply walk away....or, simply excuse yourself and hang up the phone...or completely ignore an e-mail or text.
You do not have to be mean...but, you don't have to be polite, either.
So....he might get "mad". Well, he can. And, he can get glad in the same pants that he got mad in. The tides won't change and the locusts won't come. The rest of the world will keep on functioning. He only has the power over you that you give him.
Remember that you don't have to attend every argument that you are invited to. And, you don't need his agreement or permission for conducting your life and that of your kids, in your best welfare. He is not your superior in any way.
If ...and, when....he starts to "Quacking"....consider it just that. mentally, picture him as a small quacking duck that is having a temper tantrum....all sound and fury, and signifying nothing....lol...
I think this is all about you erecting much better personal boundaries for yourself.....boundaries to protect yourself from his ridiculous incoming....
Stop believing his assessments of you. He can keep his assessments to himself or howl them to the moon.
You KNOW what is true and what isn't. go with your own truth and stop doubting yourself in favor of a drunk person.
Of course, this might mean that you will have to greatly curtail your conversing with him except for the very most essential exchanges about the kids/business. It means that you might have to simply walk away....or, simply excuse yourself and hang up the phone...or completely ignore an e-mail or text.
You do not have to be mean...but, you don't have to be polite, either.
So....he might get "mad". Well, he can. And, he can get glad in the same pants that he got mad in. The tides won't change and the locusts won't come. The rest of the world will keep on functioning. He only has the power over you that you give him.
Remember that you don't have to attend every argument that you are invited to. And, you don't need his agreement or permission for conducting your life and that of your kids, in your best welfare. He is not your superior in any way.
If ...and, when....he starts to "Quacking"....consider it just that. mentally, picture him as a small quacking duck that is having a temper tantrum....all sound and fury, and signifying nothing....lol...
I think this is all about you erecting much better personal boundaries for yourself.....boundaries to protect yourself from his ridiculous incoming....
Stop believing his assessments of you. He can keep his assessments to himself or howl them to the moon.
You KNOW what is true and what isn't. go with your own truth and stop doubting yourself in favor of a drunk person.
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since the kids HAVE a therapist, wouldn't that be the best place to start any talk about parental problems?
i think we need to careful and clear in ourselves first what we are trying to convey. and we also need to be very careful not to conveniently dump ALL bad/negative/undesirable behavior on the disease. otherwise we end up with stuff like -
he's an alcoholic, he can't help it.
the disease made him drive the car drunk and run over the crosswalk full of nuns.
and it also helps escape the mythical belief that IF ONLY they stop drinking, all will be well.
4 year olds have a short attention span. they are also needy as hell. on their very best day. wherever possible downplay "daddy's" planned arrival - event - outing, so everyone isn't sitting on the porch at 10:45am waiting for him to roll up at 11am and ya'll are still sitting there four hours later. you are in a position to minimize her feelings of confusion and disappointment. and also make sure she knows YOU are there, YOU are consistent, YOUR words and deeds match.
i think we need to careful and clear in ourselves first what we are trying to convey. and we also need to be very careful not to conveniently dump ALL bad/negative/undesirable behavior on the disease. otherwise we end up with stuff like -
he's an alcoholic, he can't help it.
the disease made him drive the car drunk and run over the crosswalk full of nuns.
and it also helps escape the mythical belief that IF ONLY they stop drinking, all will be well.
4 year olds have a short attention span. they are also needy as hell. on their very best day. wherever possible downplay "daddy's" planned arrival - event - outing, so everyone isn't sitting on the porch at 10:45am waiting for him to roll up at 11am and ya'll are still sitting there four hours later. you are in a position to minimize her feelings of confusion and disappointment. and also make sure she knows YOU are there, YOU are consistent, YOUR words and deeds match.
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Good points anvilhead. As soon as my ex started becoming inconsistent, I would tell her “daddy might be picking you up today, but we aren’t sure yet so it might be me picking you up,” etc. She hasn’t gotten upset if he flakes if she didn’t know it was a full on flake out. And agree about not putting everything on the disease. I try to encourage her to talk about her feelings about all sorts of things, and when she is upset about something like him always having a new girlfriend around, I say, “yeah, I can see why that would make you mad.” Same thing with cancelling or whatever. I make it clear her feelings are valid, I don’t try to explain away the conduct or excuse it. And I try hard not to say things like “Yep, your daddy cancels a lot” or whatever would make it seems like my criticism.
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Yes, I would be concerned about dumping it all on a "disease" or being "sick".
That takes 100 percent of the responsibility away from him.
Granted, I see addiction as a mental illness so lots of room for empathy there but it's so easy to become codependent when dealing with an addict and I know you don't want them going down that road.
Poor Dad, he is "sick" we must take care of him, bad Mom abandoned him.
So I think it's important to explain it is a special condition and it's something that Dad needs to address on his own, when he decides to.
I grew up with an alcoholic Father, in the house. My Mother never said he was "sick" or had a disease, she said "your Dad is drunk". Now in my book that's pretty darn accurate.
I never felt the need to look after him or look out for him. I did have some empathy as he got older, of course. But honestly I didn't know that much about alcoholism and didn't actually care. I knew he was an alcoholic but I didn't care "why" or how or why he continued to drink, it just was and had nothing to do with me.
That takes 100 percent of the responsibility away from him.
Granted, I see addiction as a mental illness so lots of room for empathy there but it's so easy to become codependent when dealing with an addict and I know you don't want them going down that road.
Poor Dad, he is "sick" we must take care of him, bad Mom abandoned him.
So I think it's important to explain it is a special condition and it's something that Dad needs to address on his own, when he decides to.
I grew up with an alcoholic Father, in the house. My Mother never said he was "sick" or had a disease, she said "your Dad is drunk". Now in my book that's pretty darn accurate.
I never felt the need to look after him or look out for him. I did have some empathy as he got older, of course. But honestly I didn't know that much about alcoholism and didn't actually care. I knew he was an alcoholic but I didn't care "why" or how or why he continued to drink, it just was and had nothing to do with me.
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Sesame Street just launched a bunch of online episodes dealing with addiction.
https://sesamestreetincommunities.or...tal-addiction/
https://sesamestreetincommunities.or...tal-addiction/
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Originally Posted by dandylion
Milano...….In reference to him " flipping" and directing verbal abuse and criticisms toward you......it might help if you remember not to JADE.....J-justify A-argue D-defend E-explain. When you are interacting with him.
Of course, this might mean that you will have to greatly curtail your conversing with him except for the very most essential exchanges about the kids/business. It means that you might have to simply walk away....or, simply excuse yourself and hang up the phone...or completely ignore an e-mail or text.
You do not have to be mean...but, you don't have to be polite, either.
So....he might get "mad". Well, he can. And, he can get glad in the same pants that he got mad in. The tides won't change and the locusts won't come. The rest of the world will keep on functioning. He only has the power over you that you give him.
Remember that you don't have to attend every argument that you are invited to. And, you don't need his agreement or permission for conducting your life and that of your kids, in your best welfare. He is not your superior in any way.
If ...and, when....he starts to "Quacking"....consider it just that. mentally, picture him as a small quacking duck that is having a temper tantrum....all sound and fury, and signifying nothing....lol...
I think this is all about you erecting much better personal boundaries for yourself.....boundaries to protect yourself from his ridiculous incoming....
Stop believing his assessments of you. He can keep his assessments to himself or howl them to the moon.
You KNOW what is true and what isn't. go with your own truth and stop doubting yourself in favor of a drunk person.
Of course, this might mean that you will have to greatly curtail your conversing with him except for the very most essential exchanges about the kids/business. It means that you might have to simply walk away....or, simply excuse yourself and hang up the phone...or completely ignore an e-mail or text.
You do not have to be mean...but, you don't have to be polite, either.
So....he might get "mad". Well, he can. And, he can get glad in the same pants that he got mad in. The tides won't change and the locusts won't come. The rest of the world will keep on functioning. He only has the power over you that you give him.
Remember that you don't have to attend every argument that you are invited to. And, you don't need his agreement or permission for conducting your life and that of your kids, in your best welfare. He is not your superior in any way.
If ...and, when....he starts to "Quacking"....consider it just that. mentally, picture him as a small quacking duck that is having a temper tantrum....all sound and fury, and signifying nothing....lol...
I think this is all about you erecting much better personal boundaries for yourself.....boundaries to protect yourself from his ridiculous incoming....
Stop believing his assessments of you. He can keep his assessments to himself or howl them to the moon.
You KNOW what is true and what isn't. go with your own truth and stop doubting yourself in favor of a drunk person.
Thanks... I'm still doubting myself.
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Yeah I've asked the kids therapist to help me put together an age appropriate script to explain. My 4yr old is already aware that his dad's smoking hurts him but it's his choice to keep smoking. Drinking pretty much falls into the same category. The effects of the smoking are really obvious, smelly smoke, terrible coughing but he's too young to really see the effects of his dad's drinking. I'm assuming if/when he is drinking round them he's keeping it light (for now) as he only has them on work nights. So kid might see suddenly giddy daddy, sleepy daddy or when needing a drink... Beligerant daddy. Hard to know what's happening in EXAH'S House. I just want the kids to somehow understand that it's not THEM -it's their dad. I'm trying to nip any self esteem issues in the bud now. Aside from the drinking and smoking EXAH has a habit of losing himself in his phone. Parental disengagement!!! It's all part if the same addiction problem.. Alcohol, nicotine, endorphins from phone, shopping....
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I found this book really helpful: https://www.amazon.com/Banana-Beer-C...a+beer+&sr=8-5
Its very gentle. Charlie’s dad drinks too much and Charlie wishes things were different. Charlie has a rough day at school and ends up talking to a teacher about how his dad is so angry and he feels like he doesn’t love them anymore. Teacher says his dad does love him and has probably tried to quit drinking and gets angry at himself because he can’t. This is pretty much the way I’ve talked to DS about this. He’s 11 now but learned early - partly because of AH on-again-off-again drinking problem but also because his birth mother is addicted to opiates. She lost custody completely about 18 months ago.
Its very gentle. Charlie’s dad drinks too much and Charlie wishes things were different. Charlie has a rough day at school and ends up talking to a teacher about how his dad is so angry and he feels like he doesn’t love them anymore. Teacher says his dad does love him and has probably tried to quit drinking and gets angry at himself because he can’t. This is pretty much the way I’ve talked to DS about this. He’s 11 now but learned early - partly because of AH on-again-off-again drinking problem but also because his birth mother is addicted to opiates. She lost custody completely about 18 months ago.
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I find this thread helpful because though my daughter is only 9 months old, she needs to know that she had a long family history of addiction and mental health issues.
Ive gone back and forth of when I should tell her. Like, what do I tell her when she asks me where my mommy is? Or why can’t she meet my daddy? Or why does uncle smell funny? Etc.
How honestly do I answer these questions? I guess it depends on her age when asking but at some point she needs to understand that she has a genetically loaded gun pointed at her head if she ever picks up.
Ive gone back and forth of when I should tell her. Like, what do I tell her when she asks me where my mommy is? Or why can’t she meet my daddy? Or why does uncle smell funny? Etc.
How honestly do I answer these questions? I guess it depends on her age when asking but at some point she needs to understand that she has a genetically loaded gun pointed at her head if she ever picks up.
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I have followed the advice and direction of my daughter's counselor. I found that when I was trying to explain things on my own, I went into too much depth that was age inappropriate and confusing for her. So I have worked out a system with the counselor where I bank her questions and we can answer them together, so it's more of a controlled process.
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same age as my daughter when my wife started drinking. they see more than we suspect, they know more than we suspect, and they remember everything. the difference is that they are true victims with no power. at least the drinker is at fault for drinking, and the enabler at fault for enabling. i'll never, no matter what, be able to make it up to my daughter that i did not protect her better from her mother.
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