One for the ignore button
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Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 748
One for the ignore button
I feel I'm cheating here really. I'm saying how I'm struggling not to drink, yet I know at some point today I'll start. My drinking behaviour shows me to be completely out of control with only the illusion that I'm running the whole thing. I'm merely rubber stamping decisions taken at a higher level.
Today I'm going to drink, I know it. The fight is just for show. That's how it feels to me. I don't remember ever overruling the urge to drink. My successes with stopping drinking haven't entailed any willpower, for instance once I was in hospital for a month with meningitis or last year because, well I can't remember, but it couldn't have been difficult because I did it.
So, where is the mind that controls all this? Who is the decision maker? I wish it was about willpower where I could see the enemy, but I am the enemy. I think that I have to be in a position where choice is taken away from me.
Whenever Miles Davis wanted to get off heroin his father used to lock him up in a stable where he could play his trumpet cold turkey. But I can't afford a stable and I don't know Miles Davis' father.
I'm struggling right now. I've nothing to do today.
Today I'm going to drink, I know it. The fight is just for show. That's how it feels to me. I don't remember ever overruling the urge to drink. My successes with stopping drinking haven't entailed any willpower, for instance once I was in hospital for a month with meningitis or last year because, well I can't remember, but it couldn't have been difficult because I did it.
So, where is the mind that controls all this? Who is the decision maker? I wish it was about willpower where I could see the enemy, but I am the enemy. I think that I have to be in a position where choice is taken away from me.
Whenever Miles Davis wanted to get off heroin his father used to lock him up in a stable where he could play his trumpet cold turkey. But I can't afford a stable and I don't know Miles Davis' father.
I'm struggling right now. I've nothing to do today.
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Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 2,654
Taplow, my experience only (oh my, I could write a book) it isn’t about ‘willpower’: that can be depleted, by your ‘preprogrammed mind’ that is is running the alcohol show. I found it’s about ‘wont power’, which is infinitely strong - the ‘real, authentic-self’ Taplow, that’s posting here......
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Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 748
Tatsy, I wish you did write a book, it sounds interesting. What do you mean about the real authentic self? Where is it? I don't think I've got one.
If you could elaborate - won't power for example - it'd be appreciated.
If you could elaborate - won't power for example - it'd be appreciated.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 1,518
Taolow , I'm certailmly not going to ignore you . I was like you 10 days or so ago and did drink for a day but I did not reach out here which you are doing and is what i should have done .
Dont do it , its not worth the missery . I believe deep down you DONT want to drink and i hope you can look deep into YOU and dont let the addiction voice win .
Rooting for you
Dont do it , its not worth the missery . I believe deep down you DONT want to drink and i hope you can look deep into YOU and dont let the addiction voice win .
Rooting for you
Last edited by hpdw; 10-05-2019 at 05:23 AM. Reason: mistake
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,378
Why not make a concerted effort not to drink today? and tomorrow...in a week you could be a week better off.
Recovery not just about not drinking - but not drinking is the necessary precursor to real lasting change.
I hope you make a good forward looking choice today
D
Recovery not just about not drinking - but not drinking is the necessary precursor to real lasting change.
I hope you make a good forward looking choice today
D
Member
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Essex
Posts: 411
Some practical AA....
Clean your shoes (do people do that anymore? maybe whiten your trainers then...) Do the washing up, clean the bathroom, dig the garden, dig the allotment, dig your neighbour's garden/allotment, pet the cat/dog & give them a brush, take a nap, read a book, listen to a play on the radio, make a cup of tea, make someone else a cup of tea, call a family member of friend, write a post to another SR member (takes you out of your own head, and the circular thoughts), do some household maintenance or admin, watch a film, make a milkshake and have some chocolate....
Do anything.....but don't drink even if your arse falls off....it can feel like there's an inevitability to taking a drink....there doesn't have to be.....
The idea is, you interrupt the thoughts for long enough, to head it off at the pass, to see the insanity of it, and then you get to take action to stay stopped drinking
In the longer term, it really helped me to do the AA programme, and be part of a recovery community (fellowship) It also really helps me to be part of a meditation community through the local Buddhist centre, and it helps me to get moving, so I run 3-4 times a week.
Wish you well
Clean your shoes (do people do that anymore? maybe whiten your trainers then...) Do the washing up, clean the bathroom, dig the garden, dig the allotment, dig your neighbour's garden/allotment, pet the cat/dog & give them a brush, take a nap, read a book, listen to a play on the radio, make a cup of tea, make someone else a cup of tea, call a family member of friend, write a post to another SR member (takes you out of your own head, and the circular thoughts), do some household maintenance or admin, watch a film, make a milkshake and have some chocolate....
Do anything.....but don't drink even if your arse falls off....it can feel like there's an inevitability to taking a drink....there doesn't have to be.....
The idea is, you interrupt the thoughts for long enough, to head it off at the pass, to see the insanity of it, and then you get to take action to stay stopped drinking
In the longer term, it really helped me to do the AA programme, and be part of a recovery community (fellowship) It also really helps me to be part of a meditation community through the local Buddhist centre, and it helps me to get moving, so I run 3-4 times a week.
Wish you well
Member
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 2,654
What helped me, after reading about the neuroscience of addiction. The ‘addict me’ resides in the quick fix, quell emotions, instant gratification’ part of my ‘lower/habituated’ primordial, fight/flight brain. The real/Authentic me’ resides in the higher pre-frontal cortex part of my brain, the one that’s tyiping now, the one that doesn’t want to drink, and can utilise ‘won’t power’. to stop myself, override my lower brain, from its quick emotion fix; by stopping myself from taking a drink (instant gratification) in favour of future benefits.
In a nutshell, over-simplification, but, I think you may know of what I wrote 😃
In a nutshell, over-simplification, but, I think you may know of what I wrote 😃
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Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Big City
Posts: 3,895
Ah man, if it's possible I think I might be able to feel your pain through the computer. It's so obvious that you are driven here by some aspect of your self that is desperate and hungry for sobriety. And yet the other aspect of your self is trapped in the loop of self-sabotage and suffering. That divided self is what so many of us endure toward the end of our drinking days. It's a brutal existence - and that pain in specific is what drove me to put down the booze for good. It's possible to heal the divide - but you have to really put in the work.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 2,654
Yes, what Pipefish said, it’s about interrupting the drink thoughts. From a neuroscience stance, eventually new pathways are formed in the brain, habituation, so I won’t drink, eventually becomes easier, and the new norm.
Have you attended AA?
Have you attended AA?
Member
Join Date: May 2019
Posts: 103
Originally Posted by taplow 
I feel I'm cheating here really. I'm saying how I'm struggling not to drink, yet I know at some point today I'll start. My drinking behaviour shows me to be completely out of control with only the illusion that I'm running the whole thing. I'm merely rubber stamping decisions taken at a higher level.
Today I'm going to drink, I know it. The fight is just for show. That's how it feels to me. I don't remember ever overruling the urge to drink. My successes with stopping drinking haven't entailed any willpower, for instance once I was in hospital for a month with meningitis or last year because, well I can't remember, but it couldn't have been difficult because I did it.
So, where is the mind that controls all this? Who is the decision maker? I wish it was about willpower where I could see the enemy, but I am the enemy. I think that I have to be in a position where choice is taken away from me.
Whenever Miles Davis wanted to get off heroin his father used to lock him up in a stable where he could play his trumpet cold turkey. But I can't afford a stable and I don't know Miles Davis' father.
I'm struggling right now. I've nothing to do today.
Today I'm going to drink, I know it. The fight is just for show. That's how it feels to me. I don't remember ever overruling the urge to drink. My successes with stopping drinking haven't entailed any willpower, for instance once I was in hospital for a month with meningitis or last year because, well I can't remember, but it couldn't have been difficult because I did it.
So, where is the mind that controls all this? Who is the decision maker? I wish it was about willpower where I could see the enemy, but I am the enemy. I think that I have to be in a position where choice is taken away from me.
Whenever Miles Davis wanted to get off heroin his father used to lock him up in a stable where he could play his trumpet cold turkey. But I can't afford a stable and I don't know Miles Davis' father.
I'm struggling right now. I've nothing to do today.
Now, I rarely think about drinking, and when it does cross my mind I know what I need to do to nip it in the bud and move on with my day. That was my experience - just know that it is possible.
Good luck.
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Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: UK
Posts: 2,256
You're a brilliant writer Taplow and you're very, very funny. Why don't you write a book? Or a blog? About your experiences with recovery. It would be a great support for other people struggling with addiction and would also provide insight for people who are able to moderate their drinking.... people who probably find this stuff difficult to understand. You could do some sober writing today and when you get tired of writing, read a book, watch TV, go for a walk, cook something.... Do anything other than drink. Then write a bit more. Sober. You could use your mind and time to create something fantastic that could help countless others. But most of all, you'd be helping yourself. I'd read your recovery blog and I guarantee many others would too.
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Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 1,614
Hello I think you're on the fence with this one a lot of it sounds like you want to stop but the other part of you does not want to stop I think you are afraid I'll stop it there's nothing to be afraid about my friend Once you pull the trigger and decide screw it I'm not drinking anymore yes it is a process I'm not going to sugarcoat it you're going to go through some motions that really really suck but at the end of the day start marking off that calendar my friend before you know it you'll be like me 154 days that's theBlood Sweat and Tears my brother
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 748
I'm so glad I posted. Some great responses.
Asked if I'd been to AA, no I haven't been anywhere except to my GP who referred me to some alcohol thing which I changed my mind about and cancelled. I really know nothing about addiction other than my own closed off ideas.
Some of the answers here have made me really think that I need to properly investigate - and given me some pointers. You might think, well how can someone of 57 who's been drinking most of his adult life know so little about the main preoccupation of his life; well you don't know me. Honestly, I just saw it on here as people encouraging each other. Really should take advantage of the good and intelligent people on here.
Since posting I've been called up twice and had long phone calls which have helped me get through the day.
Asked if I'd been to AA, no I haven't been anywhere except to my GP who referred me to some alcohol thing which I changed my mind about and cancelled. I really know nothing about addiction other than my own closed off ideas.
Some of the answers here have made me really think that I need to properly investigate - and given me some pointers. You might think, well how can someone of 57 who's been drinking most of his adult life know so little about the main preoccupation of his life; well you don't know me. Honestly, I just saw it on here as people encouraging each other. Really should take advantage of the good and intelligent people on here.
Since posting I've been called up twice and had long phone calls which have helped me get through the day.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Colorado
Posts: 347
Originally Posted by taplow
...So, where is the mind that controls all this? Who is the decision maker? I wish it was about willpower where I could see the enemy, but I am the enemy. I think that I have to be in a position where choice is taken away from me...
Choice has already been taken away from you; the second you crossed the alcohol line where you cannot drink in moderation, whenever that was in your life, you have no choice.
In your (and my) fight against the bottle using willpower, alcohol wins every time. In your (and my) fight against the bottle using the mind, alcohol wins every time.
Doesn't matter how strong and determined you are, doesn't matter how intelligent you are, you lose. That's why you feel you are "rubber stamping decisions made at a higher level." That's why you feel "the fight is just for show" (it actually is just for show; you can't win). Take it from me, a real smart guy with a lot of willpower.
How do you get out of this situation?
I'm glad you asked.
Down in your heart you finally admit you can't win, that you have no control over drinking. You're beat, give up the fight.
Then you find people who know how to stay away from a drink, ask them for help, and do what they tell you to do with abandon and joy.
The real you is there.
Life Goes On
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Baltimore, Maryland
Posts: 6,069
Taplow,
I'm not going to ignore you either.
I've had plenty of strings of non-drinking days, many of them just a handful and others up to a couple of months. Some of those were somewhat spontaneous (though they took a long time to work up to) and others were very deliberate. I don't know how to tell you how to do it, I can only tell you my experience.
I know what you're talking about, recognize that capitulation before the battle even begins. It's a lie, but man is it ever compelling. So much so that I was sometimes convinced that I didn't even see what was going on. Somehow, I would find myself mysteriously driving to the liquor store without feeling like there'd been any deliberation at all. That auto-pilot thing. And then once in, once my brain was sufficiently doused in alcohol, all bets were off. I'd just keep drinking with resignation waiting for "something" to happen to force me to stop. Sometimes it was the arrival of my daughter for a visit, sometimes it was Monday morning, but the worst times were when I kept on regardless of what happened.
Like Tatsy, I'm a fan of AVRT; the acknowledgement that there is a portion of our brain that is nothing but pure unbridled need for alcohol. That part of the brain is stupid, completely unaware of and uninterested in your authentic self. It's so stupid that it doesn't have the capacity to "care" about what happens to you. Coming to an understanding of that "beast brain" has helped me to separate myself from it, to disregard and dismiss it. My addicted brain isn't going anywhere; it's with me for life. Nevertheless, if I don't indulge it, my addiction is gone.
But when I was actively drinking, my rational brain had only the slightest edge up. I had to find a way to rip off the band-aid and just stop. To get in that space, I always felt I needed to wean off over one or several days, and abstinence had to start when I woke up on the designated day. Control and choice were critical to me.
Two months ago today, after switching it up and actually posting here while drinking (rather than going radio silent, which was my usual mo), I allowed the kind folks here to convince me to get help, I went to the ER and got detoxed. Didn't want to do it, didn't like doing it, had no idea what would happen after, but it had to be done. I found a stable and decided to deal with the manure later.
Your mind is right here posting and reading. Your mind is the one observing the machinations of the addicted brain. Your mind can figure out how to get to the stable. I think you know it, you just don't want to even while you do. It sucks, but it's not insurmountable, I promise.
O
I'm not going to ignore you either.
I've had plenty of strings of non-drinking days, many of them just a handful and others up to a couple of months. Some of those were somewhat spontaneous (though they took a long time to work up to) and others were very deliberate. I don't know how to tell you how to do it, I can only tell you my experience.
I know what you're talking about, recognize that capitulation before the battle even begins. It's a lie, but man is it ever compelling. So much so that I was sometimes convinced that I didn't even see what was going on. Somehow, I would find myself mysteriously driving to the liquor store without feeling like there'd been any deliberation at all. That auto-pilot thing. And then once in, once my brain was sufficiently doused in alcohol, all bets were off. I'd just keep drinking with resignation waiting for "something" to happen to force me to stop. Sometimes it was the arrival of my daughter for a visit, sometimes it was Monday morning, but the worst times were when I kept on regardless of what happened.
Like Tatsy, I'm a fan of AVRT; the acknowledgement that there is a portion of our brain that is nothing but pure unbridled need for alcohol. That part of the brain is stupid, completely unaware of and uninterested in your authentic self. It's so stupid that it doesn't have the capacity to "care" about what happens to you. Coming to an understanding of that "beast brain" has helped me to separate myself from it, to disregard and dismiss it. My addicted brain isn't going anywhere; it's with me for life. Nevertheless, if I don't indulge it, my addiction is gone.
But when I was actively drinking, my rational brain had only the slightest edge up. I had to find a way to rip off the band-aid and just stop. To get in that space, I always felt I needed to wean off over one or several days, and abstinence had to start when I woke up on the designated day. Control and choice were critical to me.
Two months ago today, after switching it up and actually posting here while drinking (rather than going radio silent, which was my usual mo), I allowed the kind folks here to convince me to get help, I went to the ER and got detoxed. Didn't want to do it, didn't like doing it, had no idea what would happen after, but it had to be done. I found a stable and decided to deal with the manure later.
Your mind is right here posting and reading. Your mind is the one observing the machinations of the addicted brain. Your mind can figure out how to get to the stable. I think you know it, you just don't want to even while you do. It sucks, but it's not insurmountable, I promise.
O
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Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: London, England
Posts: 7,057
I can relate to your situation Taplow. I joined SR in 2014 and didn't stop drinking till last year. It was never because I didn't want to, it was because I couldn't work out how to. I truly could not stop.
Some people got sick of me posting, saying I was doing nothing to help myself, why was I still drinking when all I had to do was stop, get help etc.etc. My god I was trying but nothing was working. Often I took offence to what was being said but I would get over it and come back again. Still stuck. A hopeless all day everyday drunk.
I should add that I also got an abundance of positive support. I was craving kindness, understanding and somewhere to voice my thoughts. Even as a drunk I needed hope and that's what posting gave me.
Not sure where I am really going with this except to suggest you keep posting, keep reading and someday (quicker than me I hope) things will fall into place and you will get sober- as long as you want it enough.
I for one could never of done it without SR.
Some people got sick of me posting, saying I was doing nothing to help myself, why was I still drinking when all I had to do was stop, get help etc.etc. My god I was trying but nothing was working. Often I took offence to what was being said but I would get over it and come back again. Still stuck. A hopeless all day everyday drunk.
I should add that I also got an abundance of positive support. I was craving kindness, understanding and somewhere to voice my thoughts. Even as a drunk I needed hope and that's what posting gave me.
Not sure where I am really going with this except to suggest you keep posting, keep reading and someday (quicker than me I hope) things will fall into place and you will get sober- as long as you want it enough.
I for one could never of done it without SR.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 349
tap,
I read lots and lots about recovery with a drink in hand. I pondered the definition of an alcoholic, researched recovery methods, etc. while continuing right on with the same behavior. For me, I finally set the definitions aside and accepted my drinking for what it was at the root...a very nasty and very ingrained habit. The “never again” part of the struggle became unimportant, because I was set about to change a well-worn path within my brain which centered around planning, buying, consuming, and recovering from alcohol.
I began by changing my behavior. I was constantly at the grocery, since I only purchased a “respectable” amount of wine each visit. So I started buying food for the week. I ate as soon as I got home. I walked in the evening when I would typically have been on the couch in a stupor. I window shopped and bowled (?!) on the weekend. I ate fruit when I wanted a drink. On and on, little changes that I repeated day after day. The change in behavior came first, but the change in the brain followed suit.
Now, 2 years in, “never again” isn’t a scary declaration, it just is. Some of those new habits have become things that I love (jogging!). Alcohol has no place in my life now.
Start with action...the thinking may well follow.
(BTW, wonderfully cheeky thread title).
-bora
I read lots and lots about recovery with a drink in hand. I pondered the definition of an alcoholic, researched recovery methods, etc. while continuing right on with the same behavior. For me, I finally set the definitions aside and accepted my drinking for what it was at the root...a very nasty and very ingrained habit. The “never again” part of the struggle became unimportant, because I was set about to change a well-worn path within my brain which centered around planning, buying, consuming, and recovering from alcohol.
I began by changing my behavior. I was constantly at the grocery, since I only purchased a “respectable” amount of wine each visit. So I started buying food for the week. I ate as soon as I got home. I walked in the evening when I would typically have been on the couch in a stupor. I window shopped and bowled (?!) on the weekend. I ate fruit when I wanted a drink. On and on, little changes that I repeated day after day. The change in behavior came first, but the change in the brain followed suit.
Now, 2 years in, “never again” isn’t a scary declaration, it just is. Some of those new habits have become things that I love (jogging!). Alcohol has no place in my life now.
Start with action...the thinking may well follow.
(BTW, wonderfully cheeky thread title
).-bora
Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Toronto
Posts: 3,195
I have suffered great consequences due to my drinking. Every aspect of my life has been affected negatively. I have been to inpatient rehab, hospitals, therapy, and currently doing the AA steps with a sponsor. I was just at an AA meeting this morning. Yet, I want to drink right now more than anything else. Just because it feels good and offers instant gratification. I won't drink today but nothing is stopping me. Unfortunately, I will probably have to fight this urge every day for the rest of my life.
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