Are there signs of impending relapse?
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 94
Are there signs of impending relapse?
Well, my husband isn't lashing out at me, but he is starting trouble with a new neighbor that's been here much longer than we have since we just moved to town. Oh the joy!
Yesterday, the neighbor was draining their above ground pool. My husband came into the house all upset that the neighbor's draining of their pool was flooding our garage. While my husband was out trying to get in touch with the neighbor, I check the garage and cant find any flooding. When my husband saw me in the garage I asked where the flooding is and he pointed to a small puddle in the corner that I could barely see.
Fast forward to this evening. I'm finishing dinner and all of a sudden I hear angry shouting and cursing. I walk outside and my husband is in a verbal altercation with the neighbor who is on top of his privacy fence acting as if he's going to jump into our yard as my husband walks away (because he heard me come outside, I'm sure of it). The neighbor sees me and says, "Mam, its not you, you're sweet, its him"! My husband says nothing as he continues walking away.
Later, husband walks into the house and begins to tell me how the neighbor had hopped the fence threatening him. Sadly, I don't believe him. That's not what I saw, and he acts like he has no idea why the neighbor is so mad at him; after all, its our garage the neighbor was flooding (not!).
There is more detail, but what the heck? Everyone in this neighborhood is going to hate our family because he's a hot head! Is this irrational behavior and the lying/over exaggeration a sign of relapse trouble? The anger issue is one thing but I can only imagine that alcohol would be fuel on the bonfire.
Yesterday, the neighbor was draining their above ground pool. My husband came into the house all upset that the neighbor's draining of their pool was flooding our garage. While my husband was out trying to get in touch with the neighbor, I check the garage and cant find any flooding. When my husband saw me in the garage I asked where the flooding is and he pointed to a small puddle in the corner that I could barely see.
Fast forward to this evening. I'm finishing dinner and all of a sudden I hear angry shouting and cursing. I walk outside and my husband is in a verbal altercation with the neighbor who is on top of his privacy fence acting as if he's going to jump into our yard as my husband walks away (because he heard me come outside, I'm sure of it). The neighbor sees me and says, "Mam, its not you, you're sweet, its him"! My husband says nothing as he continues walking away.
Later, husband walks into the house and begins to tell me how the neighbor had hopped the fence threatening him. Sadly, I don't believe him. That's not what I saw, and he acts like he has no idea why the neighbor is so mad at him; after all, its our garage the neighbor was flooding (not!).
There is more detail, but what the heck? Everyone in this neighborhood is going to hate our family because he's a hot head! Is this irrational behavior and the lying/over exaggeration a sign of relapse trouble? The anger issue is one thing but I can only imagine that alcohol would be fuel on the bonfire.
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Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: northern michigan. not the U.P.
Posts: 15,281
relapse ends with a drink. behaviors can indicate a pre meditated drunk. it varies,though. some people fresh to recovery are a mental mess and display behaviors that arent mature- like being a drama king. some recognize it and admit it. the ones that dont recogize it and dont accept responsibility for their recovery and behavior seem to end up either drunk,miserable, or drunk and miserable.
i think ya might want to set some boundaries and consequences.
i think ya might want to set some boundaries and consequences.
Community Greeter
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 16,246
Teehee......My first thought is connected to your husband's Extreme obsessive compulsive tendencies---which are considered a way to try to control anxiety and keep internal control.....Although, it is not a very effective way to accomplish that goal. For what would seem to be a very minor infraction or disruption (like the labels on canned goods not all facing the same way)...to someone who is compulsive--it can rock their world...literally....causing them to feel out of control of their inner world. This can be so threatening ,for some people that they feel like they have been attacked/accosted/interfered with. It can represent--symbolize....a major loss of inner control for them.
Such fear can trigger anger, fear....expressed as rage, in some cases, by some people....
Of course, this is just my own speculation about your husbands behavior....whether I am right or wrong...I think it is still extreme by any usual gauge....
Whether this is leading to relapse,or not, is still speculation....and, might possibly be in the offing....
The thing that concerns me, for your sake...is that, given how reactive your husband is to such minor things....the loss of control that he might feel if he felt loss of control over the possibility of your leaving the relationship, could be very dangerous....
I know that you are learning about this with the DV advocates....and, I consider this just an example of how deep and intense your husbands issues (whatever they are)….go .
Teehee...keep your safety in the front of your mind, always....as he is a bear that one wouldn't want to poke....
Talk this over with the DV people...and, I suggest that you be prepared to leave the premises, on a dime, if necessary....better to be safe than sorry....
Such fear can trigger anger, fear....expressed as rage, in some cases, by some people....
Of course, this is just my own speculation about your husbands behavior....whether I am right or wrong...I think it is still extreme by any usual gauge....
Whether this is leading to relapse,or not, is still speculation....and, might possibly be in the offing....
The thing that concerns me, for your sake...is that, given how reactive your husband is to such minor things....the loss of control that he might feel if he felt loss of control over the possibility of your leaving the relationship, could be very dangerous....
I know that you are learning about this with the DV advocates....and, I consider this just an example of how deep and intense your husbands issues (whatever they are)….go .
Teehee...keep your safety in the front of your mind, always....as he is a bear that one wouldn't want to poke....
Talk this over with the DV people...and, I suggest that you be prepared to leave the premises, on a dime, if necessary....better to be safe than sorry....
Blue Belt
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Soberville, USA
Posts: 4,174
Reminds me of my wife. She used to always side with everyone else, it seemed no matter what.
I would tell her that and she tried to st a rt siding with me more.
If the water is showing through the floor in the corner, do you think it might be hurting the cement under the floor?
I would not park a car there for a while.
On the relapse note....i could relapse over happy or sad issues. I drank over anything.
If he is staying sober, it is because he wants to.
I had folks that tried to bait me into a fight while i was in my early days. It doesn't help at first. But then it made me stronger in my conviction to not drink.
I am not implying anyone is baiting your hubby, it only reminded me of my experience.
Thanks.
I would tell her that and she tried to st a rt siding with me more.
If the water is showing through the floor in the corner, do you think it might be hurting the cement under the floor?
I would not park a car there for a while.
On the relapse note....i could relapse over happy or sad issues. I drank over anything.
If he is staying sober, it is because he wants to.
I had folks that tried to bait me into a fight while i was in my early days. It doesn't help at first. But then it made me stronger in my conviction to not drink.
I am not implying anyone is baiting your hubby, it only reminded me of my experience.
Thanks.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 8,620
Originally Posted by Teehee 
The anger issue is one thing but I can only imagine that alcohol would be fuel on the bonfire.
He hasn't been drinking since you have been with him and yet these issues are escalating. Whether this is him unable to control his anger with alcohol or not is kind of irrelevant at this point, the bottom line is he can't control it. That's dangerous.
Not only is he yelling at the neighbour, he's lying about it. Lying or builds it up differently to himself to justify his behaviour? A small puddle is a "flood" the neighbour is "hopping the fence".
Is it his regular behaviour to lash out at anyone else or does he normally reserve that for you? Now that you have spoken to him about it he might just be going further afield to vent that anger. Just a guess.
Maybe these were always issues with him that he covered with alcohol, it's impossible to know really.
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Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: The Beach
Posts: 1,106
Teehee, does your husband see a doctor for regular check ups? If his behavior is getting more erratic at a fairly accelerated rate, there could be other factors at play here other than alcoholism issues or personality disorders etc.
I am not a doctor and even if I was, I wouldn't diagnosis him over an internet message board!... however I had a friend who's mother got extremely angry in her 50s and no one could figure out why... turns out she had early onset alzheimer's. I am not suggesting that's what is happening with your husband, I'm just pointing out that there are other medical conditions that can cause odd and/or violent behaviors.
If he'd be willing to see a doctor, I think that would be a good idea.
I am not a doctor and even if I was, I wouldn't diagnosis him over an internet message board!... however I had a friend who's mother got extremely angry in her 50s and no one could figure out why... turns out she had early onset alzheimer's. I am not suggesting that's what is happening with your husband, I'm just pointing out that there are other medical conditions that can cause odd and/or violent behaviors.
If he'd be willing to see a doctor, I think that would be a good idea.
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Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 94
Its mind boggling and I have a lot to discuss with the therapist today. Taking my stepdaughter to school this morning I relayed a story my husband told me before he left for work. He said he went upstairs and smelled something so went on the search for the smell and found the cat had been locked in one of the bedrooms and she had made a mess which he cleaned up so I wouldn't have to. After I told her that story she rolled her eyes and said that the cat slept with her all night.
WHY make up such a story? What is the profit? Is the profit that he cleaned a mess so I wouldn't have to? A "look what I did for you" fabrication? It's weird! I was not expecting this when I told her the story. Things with him keep getting stranger.
WHY make up such a story? What is the profit? Is the profit that he cleaned a mess so I wouldn't have to? A "look what I did for you" fabrication? It's weird! I was not expecting this when I told her the story. Things with him keep getting stranger.
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Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Atlanta
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Teehee, thank you for sharing. My heart goes out to you - mostly as the recovering alcoholic and then as the stepmom whose 21 yr old son is (?) truly accepting the treatment living situation where he is now.
I'd mostly be inclined to a succinct "yes" to your original question. I do believe what is said in AA - "a relapse begins well before the first drink." Plenty of times, that isn't obvious to the alcoholic at all, or certainly only in retrospect.
I'd offer more but I believe best to just say that your instincts - and I'd bet, experience with him?- seem sound to me, and I am proud of you for engaging here, with your step-daughter (I have one also, younger than her brother and your short story feels familiar), and with a therapist.
Best to you.
I'd mostly be inclined to a succinct "yes" to your original question. I do believe what is said in AA - "a relapse begins well before the first drink." Plenty of times, that isn't obvious to the alcoholic at all, or certainly only in retrospect.
I'd offer more but I believe best to just say that your instincts - and I'd bet, experience with him?- seem sound to me, and I am proud of you for engaging here, with your step-daughter (I have one also, younger than her brother and your short story feels familiar), and with a therapist.
Best to you.
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Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Southern US
Posts: 510
Teehee, the profit is to make you feel guilty and to elevate himself because he cleaned up the pretend mess - - so YOU wouldn't have to. See how great he is? He didn't even lose his temper that you locked the cat in a room and it caused a mess. He sucked it up and cleaned it up for you. (A total lie, but that's the "profit")
On a seperate note, your husband's anger issues may not be indicitive of a relapse. My ex would pick a fight with anyone....once, when I was VERY pregnant, he yelled at a group of guys in a parking lot and accused them of checking me out. It was weird, and so embarrassing. The alcoholism may be second to an imperial NPD type of personality. (But honestly, does it really matter which came first, the chicken or the egg? - its still unpleasant to live with)
On a seperate note, your husband's anger issues may not be indicitive of a relapse. My ex would pick a fight with anyone....once, when I was VERY pregnant, he yelled at a group of guys in a parking lot and accused them of checking me out. It was weird, and so embarrassing. The alcoholism may be second to an imperial NPD type of personality. (But honestly, does it really matter which came first, the chicken or the egg? - its still unpleasant to live with)
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Join Date: Nov 2016
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I suspect there is a lot going on here that you aren't aware of yet. I don't mean anything necessarily sinister, just that his mind is obviously off kilter.
And yes, it's a - look what I did for you - thing imo.
I bet you feel like you are living in the Twilight Zone.
And yes, it's a - look what I did for you - thing imo.
I bet you feel like you are living in the Twilight Zone.
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Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 94
With it being the first time with this counselor I had to go over a lot of background information -- thats always mentally/emotionally exhausting.
It seems I've taken the wind out of my advocate and counselor who both suggested I read Why Does He Do because I've already read it and more. I understand the circle of power and control. I'm not sure there are any answers.
I'll keep doing what I'm doing and the answer will probably reveal itself in it's time.
It seems I've taken the wind out of my advocate and counselor who both suggested I read Why Does He Do because I've already read it and more. I understand the circle of power and control. I'm not sure there are any answers.
I'll keep doing what I'm doing and the answer will probably reveal itself in it's time.
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Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: W Washington
Posts: 11,589
it's entirely possible that he isn't suddenly behaving different or weird-er, but that you are more tuned in now and see things more clearly. it's not that he is fussy or particular, he's a man with a twisted brain who is attempting to control everything and everyone.
if you were in a parking lot and i came running at you with a cricket bat held aloft, what are you doing to do? stop and ponder why this crazy woman is moving at me with speed and a weapon? OR get the hell out of the way? whatever is going on with him, inside of him, that is not your territory. not your problem to solve. or disseminate. it does not change the fact that his treatment of you (and others) is utterly unacceptable.
if you were in a parking lot and i came running at you with a cricket bat held aloft, what are you doing to do? stop and ponder why this crazy woman is moving at me with speed and a weapon? OR get the hell out of the way? whatever is going on with him, inside of him, that is not your territory. not your problem to solve. or disseminate. it does not change the fact that his treatment of you (and others) is utterly unacceptable.
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Join Date: Nov 2016
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I agree with Anvil.
His behaviour is appalling.
Both counsellors recommended a book to you which you have already read, but as you mentioned, you already understand this.
I'm a bit confused to be honest, why would you hang around for more of this? I know you love him, but does he have times of incredible niceness or something? Like his (fake) looking after the cat?
There is such a thing as trauma bonding.
You don't have to answer this, of course, but maybe you want to answer it to yourself.
His behaviour is appalling.
Both counsellors recommended a book to you which you have already read, but as you mentioned, you already understand this.
I'm a bit confused to be honest, why would you hang around for more of this? I know you love him, but does he have times of incredible niceness or something? Like his (fake) looking after the cat?
There is such a thing as trauma bonding.
You don't have to answer this, of course, but maybe you want to answer it to yourself.
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Join Date: Aug 2019
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His behavior is appalling, I don't disagree. I've been with him 5 years, married just a few months. Last year there was an incident, everything else has been recent since the marriage. There has been a lot of great times that didnt include all of the lying, anger, etc. I'm not ready to hang it up yet. Then, there is my stepdaughter who I'm very close with and promised to never leave her, of course this was before all of the verbal abuse began. I suppose that is the best answer I have at the moment. There is hope that this is temporary and sanity will return. I hate the hope word, but for lack of a better word thats it in a nutshell.
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Join Date: Nov 2016
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Well there is always hope I suppose. One thing to consider is that this was always an underlying issue but he couldn't let you see it until you were married. It does happen. I'm sure you have read here of people who married an alcoholic and didn't even realize their SO was one until after they were married and the alcoholic relaxed.
Now, that doesn't help you one bit, but just be aware that there may be no "sanity" to follow - this may be as good as it gets.
Now, that doesn't help you one bit, but just be aware that there may be no "sanity" to follow - this may be as good as it gets.
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Join Date: Aug 2019
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Originally Posted by trailmix
Well there is always hope I suppose. One thing to consider is that this was always an underlying issue but he couldn't let you see it until you were married. It does happen. I'm sure you have read here of people who married an alcoholic and didn't even realize their SO was one until after they were married and the alcoholic relaxed.
Now, that doesn't help you one bit, but just be aware that there may be no "sanity" to follow - this may be as good as it gets.
Now, that doesn't help you one bit, but just be aware that there may be no "sanity" to follow - this may be as good as it gets.
Meanwhile, the freaking kitchen floor is hands and knees squeaky clean -- because that's the way he likes it. Like it or lump it, I'm getting a stinking mop.
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