Toxic Friend?
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Toxic Friend?
My AXBF and I have not been in each other's lives for nearly two years, and since then, I have worked tirelessly to make my life and my daughter's as happy and secure as possible. I am in a post-chaos time period where I'm happier than I've ever been, and I want to keep it that way. My question is this: has anyone ever found it difficult to maintain friendships with people, not necessarily addicts, who make consistently poor and unhealthy life decisions?
I recently returned from a trip to Hawaii with two friends I've known since elementary school. We all turned forty this year and wanted to celebrate in paradise. On the last day of our trip, which was not otherwise without its drama, one of my friends, whom I'll refer to as E, started crying in the middle of brunch at a very public restaurant about how she has nothing to show for her forty years, and she's right; she kinda doesn't:
E has no family--due to an affair she had that ended her marriage.
E has no job--due to quitting her stable, good-paying job with no plan B in mind.
E has no money--due to constant spending on frivolous things.
E has no home--due to the aforementioned frivolous spending which led her to move in with her sister.
She is the type of person who always has something negative happening in her life--tickets for running red lights, an STD scare, unpaid taxes, etc. Being her friend is, well, exhausting.
Anyhow, while she was crying in the restaurant, I stayed very quiet, partially because I didn't know what to say, and partially because I was annoyed that she was having another meltdown, yet again, in the middle of our vacation. Then, about five minutes into her meltdown, she turned her gaze at me and started talking about how I don't understand her and how I don't care and how I haven't been supportive of her.
Now, accusing me of not supporting her is a blatant revision of our history, but I realized that in the other regards she was absolutely right: I do not understand her, and sometimes, I find it very difficult to care. It's as if my AXBF used up all of my compassion, as if I was only equipped with a finite amount, and now I can no longer care about someone who makes poor decision after poor decision, despite the pain it causes and despite my advice, support, and love. I'm now on the precipice of telling her I need a break from our friendship because she obviously needs a level of support that I cannot or am not willing to provide.
In this forum I have learned, we cannot help someone who won't help herself, but I still have a nagging voice that tells me I'm being a bad friend. Is that my codie voice, struggling to create healthy boundaries? Or should I try to be the bigger person and muster more compassion for my friend of nearly thirty years?
I recently returned from a trip to Hawaii with two friends I've known since elementary school. We all turned forty this year and wanted to celebrate in paradise. On the last day of our trip, which was not otherwise without its drama, one of my friends, whom I'll refer to as E, started crying in the middle of brunch at a very public restaurant about how she has nothing to show for her forty years, and she's right; she kinda doesn't:
E has no family--due to an affair she had that ended her marriage.
E has no job--due to quitting her stable, good-paying job with no plan B in mind.
E has no money--due to constant spending on frivolous things.
E has no home--due to the aforementioned frivolous spending which led her to move in with her sister.
She is the type of person who always has something negative happening in her life--tickets for running red lights, an STD scare, unpaid taxes, etc. Being her friend is, well, exhausting.
Anyhow, while she was crying in the restaurant, I stayed very quiet, partially because I didn't know what to say, and partially because I was annoyed that she was having another meltdown, yet again, in the middle of our vacation. Then, about five minutes into her meltdown, she turned her gaze at me and started talking about how I don't understand her and how I don't care and how I haven't been supportive of her.
Now, accusing me of not supporting her is a blatant revision of our history, but I realized that in the other regards she was absolutely right: I do not understand her, and sometimes, I find it very difficult to care. It's as if my AXBF used up all of my compassion, as if I was only equipped with a finite amount, and now I can no longer care about someone who makes poor decision after poor decision, despite the pain it causes and despite my advice, support, and love. I'm now on the precipice of telling her I need a break from our friendship because she obviously needs a level of support that I cannot or am not willing to provide.
In this forum I have learned, we cannot help someone who won't help herself, but I still have a nagging voice that tells me I'm being a bad friend. Is that my codie voice, struggling to create healthy boundaries? Or should I try to be the bigger person and muster more compassion for my friend of nearly thirty years?
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I think you have to weigh it up? First and foremost, protect yourself. It kind of sounds like what you are doing here, you no doubt learnt a lot from the relationship with your xbf about giving and giving until you have nothing left to give.
It's not finite per-se, however it does have to be replenished (in my estimation).
You cannot give and give and receive nothing in return. Now the recipient of your compassion or love etc doesn't have to be the person to replenish it, but without it you will become unhappy, sad, unfulfilled etc, as you well know.
This may well be a case of applying what you have learned. You look at her and see that all of her choices have landed her exactly where she is right now. You know that the person that can help her is - her. Apparently she has been unwilling, at least up to this point, to change.
What can you do? Suggest she get professional help, kindly. That's about it. Are you a bad friend if you tell her you need to take some time out, probably not, is this something you could actually do? Are you willing to let the friendship go completely because I suspect this might just destroy it.
Originally Posted by SaveHer 
It's as if my AXBF used up all of my compassion, as if I was only equipped with a finite amount, and now I can no longer care about someone who makes poor decision after poor decision?
You cannot give and give and receive nothing in return. Now the recipient of your compassion or love etc doesn't have to be the person to replenish it, but without it you will become unhappy, sad, unfulfilled etc, as you well know.
This may well be a case of applying what you have learned. You look at her and see that all of her choices have landed her exactly where she is right now. You know that the person that can help her is - her. Apparently she has been unwilling, at least up to this point, to change.
What can you do? Suggest she get professional help, kindly. That's about it. Are you a bad friend if you tell her you need to take some time out, probably not, is this something you could actually do? Are you willing to let the friendship go completely because I suspect this might just destroy it.
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Prayer and meditation lead the way to understanding and knowing. Often it leads me to letting go of friends/family who are draining to be around. Sometimes there is space now for a short visit with these people that may have a reason I'll never know. It does gives me a deeper appreciation of whatever it takes to allow my life to be one of creating something healthy, happy and amazingly enjoyable!
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Thank you, trailmix, for helping me to see things as less black and white. It is very comforting to think of my compassion as in need of replenishment rather than as permanently depleted.
I also think it's very astute of you to point out that she may have a very adverse reaction to my need for a break. I didn't mention this before--because, quite frankly, we have a long and sordid history--but it wouldn't be the first time we took a hiatus from our friendship. In fact, one of the reasons I was so flabbergasted by her calling me unsupportive is she actually took a break from me during my entire pregnancy, which was very hurtful but I eventually forgave her for it.
Gosh... so much trust has been lost between us, but hey, I think that can be replenished as well, right?
I also think it's very astute of you to point out that she may have a very adverse reaction to my need for a break. I didn't mention this before--because, quite frankly, we have a long and sordid history--but it wouldn't be the first time we took a hiatus from our friendship. In fact, one of the reasons I was so flabbergasted by her calling me unsupportive is she actually took a break from me during my entire pregnancy, which was very hurtful but I eventually forgave her for it.
Gosh... so much trust has been lost between us, but hey, I think that can be replenished as well, right?
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E has no family--due to an affair she had that ended her marriage.
E has no job--due to quitting her stable, good-paying job with no plan B in mind.
E has no money--due to constant spending on frivolous things.
E has no home--due to the aforementioned frivolous spending which led her to move in with her sister.
how on earth did she manage to go to HAWAII then? and then dares to complain about her life?
E has no job--due to quitting her stable, good-paying job with no plan B in mind.
E has no money--due to constant spending on frivolous things.
E has no home--due to the aforementioned frivolous spending which led her to move in with her sister.
how on earth did she manage to go to HAWAII then? and then dares to complain about her life?
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You know, some relationships aren’t worth maintaining. There is always give and take in friendships, but if she’s stuck nonstop in a place of all take, you have every right to take a break.
Toxic sometimes is just toxic. And sometimes it’s not that you’re not compassionate enough, it’s that they’re taking way more compassion than you or any reasonable person has.
And it’s okay to say “enough.”
Toxic sometimes is just toxic. And sometimes it’s not that you’re not compassionate enough, it’s that they’re taking way more compassion than you or any reasonable person has.
And it’s okay to say “enough.”
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It sure can, just takes time.
Well, since a hiatus has happened before at her instigation, maybe she will be ok with it (although probably not of course!).
If nothing else, spending less time with her, face to face and on the phone etc for a while - while you soak up some of that replenishment, would probably be a really really good thing for you.
Whether you choose to continue the relationship or not, is, of course, your choice. Maybe see how you feel about it all after a break.
Well, since a hiatus has happened before at her instigation, maybe she will be ok with it (although probably not of course!).
If nothing else, spending less time with her, face to face and on the phone etc for a while - while you soak up some of that replenishment, would probably be a really really good thing for you.
Whether you choose to continue the relationship or not, is, of course, your choice. Maybe see how you feel about it all after a break.
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Originally Posted by AnvilheadII
[I]
how on earth did she manage to go to HAWAII then? and then dares to complain about her life?
how on earth did she manage to go to HAWAII then? and then dares to complain about her life?
At the time we made the plans, months and months ago, she was employed, but still not nearly as financially stable as my other friend and me. Therefore, I, her uncaring and unsupportive friend, suggested that the other friend and I each chip in $100 toward her plane ticket, so she could go. And we did! We subsidized her entire trip! We both paid for part of her plane ticket; my other friend paid for her boat ride and the rental car and her checked bags; I paid for her five-course dinner and the resort fees. But, you know... I'm a terrible friend.
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I think the thing that makes me feel like a hypocrite is the fact that she stuck by my side when I made a mountain of terrible decisions regarding AXBF. She totally ditched out during my pregnancy, but for close to ten years, she tolerated my partner for my sake despite completely despising him.
For most of our friendship, we were both a hot mess, screwing up and commiserating together, but that dynamic no longer exists. I finally came out of the fog. I hope she can understand that I need to protect my new life because it's no longer my own. It's all for my daughter.
For most of our friendship, we were both a hot mess, screwing up and commiserating together, but that dynamic no longer exists. I finally came out of the fog. I hope she can understand that I need to protect my new life because it's no longer my own. It's all for my daughter.
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I finally came out of the fog.
hence,why you see the toxicity now.
she might not understand. wont be your problem if she doesnt.
not your circus
not your monkey.
p.s.
interested in a trip to colorado? id love to vacation there. i hear im a pretty drama/chaos free friend,too.
hence,why you see the toxicity now.
she might not understand. wont be your problem if she doesnt.
not your circus
not your monkey.
p.s.
interested in a trip to colorado? id love to vacation there. i hear im a pretty drama/chaos free friend,too.
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Join Date: Jul 2018
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I second, third, and fourth everyone above who said toxic is toxic whether is a parent, spouse or friend. I am pretty introverted and get emotionally drained just staying home on an evening when ah is talking incessantly, or having a chat with my sister and hearing all the horrible atrocities that others have bestowed upon her.
You have every right to take a break from additional drama in your life that’s irrelevant to you and your daughter. And if she ditched you before I personally don’t see why you should feel any guilt or obligation to be her emotional dumping ground. You’ve grown as a person and hopefully it’s time for her to do the same.
You have every right to take a break from additional drama in your life that’s irrelevant to you and your daughter. And if she ditched you before I personally don’t see why you should feel any guilt or obligation to be her emotional dumping ground. You’ve grown as a person and hopefully it’s time for her to do the same.
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we get to "take breaks" or "time outs" or "call it quits" ANY time we choose. friendships don't require an algorithm which calculates who has done more for whom and thus who owes the other some debt.
your friend is fully entitled to live her life as poorly as she wishes.
you are not obligated to fix or rescue or solve any of her problems.
she seems to kinda like 'em - why deny her?
i'm not even sure you need to have THE TALK. just detach, pull back, withdraw.
your friend is fully entitled to live her life as poorly as she wishes.
you are not obligated to fix or rescue or solve any of her problems.
she seems to kinda like 'em - why deny her?
i'm not even sure you need to have THE TALK. just detach, pull back, withdraw.
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I’m not sure if used up all your compassion is the way to put it.... perhaps your tolerance for self defeating conduct has been deeply reduced. If you are ready to cut off a significant other for toxic behavior, I’d imagine it’s much easier to then do the same with friends. I would consider this a good thing. Your boundaries are probably much better and your BS detector is probably finely honed.
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It's as if my AXBF used up all of my compassion, as if I was only equipped with a finite amount,
I have heard people refer to it as compassion fatigue.
I'm not one to say honesty is over-rated. (I think it, sometimes) Can't you just give her wide berth for a while, be 'busy' when she wants to get together? Why does everything require discussion or confrontation?
I have heard people refer to it as compassion fatigue.
I'm not one to say honesty is over-rated. (I think it, sometimes) Can't you just give her wide berth for a while, be 'busy' when she wants to get together? Why does everything require discussion or confrontation?
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Saveher-
I found that behaviors that I was doing with my ex, I was also doing in other relationships. For me there was a strong need to be needed in the drama and chaos of someone else's life, frankly so I did not need to look at my own.
As I got healthier these relationships stopped working as well as a distraction.
I was fortunate (as it sounds like you are) that I had some stable, long-term supportive relationships also. This gave me some comparisons for what I wanted long-term. Did I want to feel drained? What was I getting from both types of relationships?
It was really important learning for me, and I am glad I had it. It has helped open me up, but also ground me in relationships that have room for give and take.
I found the Three As in Al-anon really helpful in this process: acknowledging, accepting, action. My life is much more full now because of the room I gave myself for this.
I found that behaviors that I was doing with my ex, I was also doing in other relationships. For me there was a strong need to be needed in the drama and chaos of someone else's life, frankly so I did not need to look at my own.
As I got healthier these relationships stopped working as well as a distraction.
I was fortunate (as it sounds like you are) that I had some stable, long-term supportive relationships also. This gave me some comparisons for what I wanted long-term. Did I want to feel drained? What was I getting from both types of relationships?
It was really important learning for me, and I am glad I had it. It has helped open me up, but also ground me in relationships that have room for give and take.
I found the Three As in Al-anon really helpful in this process: acknowledging, accepting, action. My life is much more full now because of the room I gave myself for this.
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I just wanted to check back in. I sent her a letter today, and the only reason I felt the situation "required discussion" or "the talk" is because I never responded to what she said in Hawaii. I become paralyzed and mute, and then I left the restaurant. I wanted to respond to some of her unfair accusations--her revisionist history--and let her know that my decision to take a break from her is an act of setting boundaries defined by love, not anger. She probably won't see it that way, but maybe she will someday.
Thank you everyone for your support!
Thank you everyone for your support!
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I wanted to respond to some of her unfair accusations--her revisionist history--and let her know that my decision to take a break from her is an act of setting boundaries defined by love, not anger. She probably won't see it that way.
No, she likely won't. If she flat-out lies, it will only make you feel more irritated. If she actually believes what she's saying, you're just engaging with a crazy person.
Don't engage the crazy.
No, she likely won't. If she flat-out lies, it will only make you feel more irritated. If she actually believes what she's saying, you're just engaging with a crazy person.
Don't engage the crazy.
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