Should I reach out?
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 276
Should I reach out?
Hi All,
I am in a state of should I or shouldn't I? Before I left on my trip the EXAW had been on a week long bender...only calling the house at sleeping hours, drunk. (saying how I don't love her etc....) . Then we went on vacation and I reached out, with no response. She knows when we get back. Then yesterday as I was driving home I thought I saw her and her lover driving in the opposite direction. Still haven't heard from her. I feel like I want to call her. I am asking for advice here. If I don't reach out she will likely be upset, saying that proves I don't care for her.
Help!
I am in a state of should I or shouldn't I? Before I left on my trip the EXAW had been on a week long bender...only calling the house at sleeping hours, drunk. (saying how I don't love her etc....) . Then we went on vacation and I reached out, with no response. She knows when we get back. Then yesterday as I was driving home I thought I saw her and her lover driving in the opposite direction. Still haven't heard from her. I feel like I want to call her. I am asking for advice here. If I don't reach out she will likely be upset, saying that proves I don't care for her.
Help!
Member
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Chicago
Posts: 5,450
What is your motive for wanting to call?
(For the record, "she will likely be upset if you don't" is not your issue. You have already made an effort to connect, which she has declined)
I think she needs a lot more help than you will ever be able to provide, my friend. Your daughter, meanwhile, could use at least one present parent right now who isn't wrapped up in Mom's issues and can pay attention to what Daughter needs.
(For the record, "she will likely be upset if you don't" is not your issue. You have already made an effort to connect, which she has declined)
I think she needs a lot more help than you will ever be able to provide, my friend. Your daughter, meanwhile, could use at least one present parent right now who isn't wrapped up in Mom's issues and can pay attention to what Daughter needs.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 8,617
Please read and then re-read what you posted.
Step back a bit. What you actually wrote doesn't make sense. NOT because of anything "wrong" with you but because you are so deep in to this addiction nonsense
Don't get me wrong, I totally get where you are coming from. What it is though is that you are (still) caught up in the madness that is addiction. What you said would probably be her reasoning, as an addict, so you have figured out how she operates but that doesn't mean you should buy in to it.
You're not an addict but you are truly wrapped up in the drama and chaos.
I'm glad you posted here first. Have you read Codependent No More? Get ye to Al-Anon!
Step back a bit. What you actually wrote doesn't make sense. NOT because of anything "wrong" with you but because you are so deep in to this addiction nonsense
Don't get me wrong, I totally get where you are coming from. What it is though is that you are (still) caught up in the madness that is addiction. What you said would probably be her reasoning, as an addict, so you have figured out how she operates but that doesn't mean you should buy in to it.
You're not an addict but you are truly wrapped up in the drama and chaos.
I'm glad you posted here first. Have you read Codependent No More? Get ye to Al-Anon!
Member
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 573
If I don't reach out she will likely be upset, saying that proves I don't care for her.
Is there any reason you should care? She's an active alcoholic or addict sleeping with another person, yet you're worried if she thinks you care? What is wrong with this picture?
Run. Cut her out of your life. She's an adult. Not a child. You are not responsible for her nor beholden to her.
You have a life to live and a daughter who needs you. Get off the crazy train.
Is there any reason you should care? She's an active alcoholic or addict sleeping with another person, yet you're worried if she thinks you care? What is wrong with this picture?
Run. Cut her out of your life. She's an adult. Not a child. You are not responsible for her nor beholden to her.
You have a life to live and a daughter who needs you. Get off the crazy train.
Guest
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Northwest
Posts: 4,215
Why on earth would you voluntarily hand someone a baseball bat and say, here, please hit me as hard as you can over the head?
What lots of coparents here do is set up an email address only for correspondence regarding their child and then block the addict everywhere else. All attempts at contact not about the child are ignored.
Seriously. She’s out on a bender with her lover and you’re afraid YOU might hurt HER feelings?
Do you see how distorted that is?
Please, please get some objective real-life time with a therapist who understands addiction. You said your daughter has a program, which is great. But you really need one, too.
Wishing you clarity...
What lots of coparents here do is set up an email address only for correspondence regarding their child and then block the addict everywhere else. All attempts at contact not about the child are ignored.
Seriously. She’s out on a bender with her lover and you’re afraid YOU might hurt HER feelings?
Do you see how distorted that is?
Please, please get some objective real-life time with a therapist who understands addiction. You said your daughter has a program, which is great. But you really need one, too.
Wishing you clarity...
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 276
Ok so some clarity has come. I got a text message from EXAW friend. She was at the hospital. So I just got back from there and sure enuf she was there. She has been there since Monday and has done her medical detox. Ugh!! She wants to see our daughter. I told daughter mom is in the hospital and has stopped drinking for a bit and that we will go visit her later. Any advice on this...?
Member
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 8,617
I forget how old your Daughter is?
She has only been there a few days and while she might be detoxed, how is she exactly? You don't want your Daughter walking in to a woe is me cryfest or anything like that.
If she is stable and seems pulled together (as together as someone who is in hospital and has just detoxed can be) then I would allow it.
She has only been there a few days and while she might be detoxed, how is she exactly? You don't want your Daughter walking in to a woe is me cryfest or anything like that.
If she is stable and seems pulled together (as together as someone who is in hospital and has just detoxed can be) then I would allow it.
Guest
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Northwest
Posts: 4,215
That’s not really clarity...that’s another round of drama starting up.
From your first post, June 17...
“Fast forwrd to 3 weeks ago...my AW came home so that we could have a romantic evening and it was the start of us trying to re-build. We agreed to be exclusive and work a 12 step program as a family. The next day she was with her boyfriend, was verbally abusive to me and left on a 10 day bender. She never even reached out when she came back...I had to.
I am so done...does this ring true to anyone?
The lies, manipulation, cheating and discarding?”
You also said her alcohol abuse has been an escalating problem for ten years of your fifteen year marriage.
No amount of burying and sacrificing your own feelings, needs and self-respect will fix her, but it will certainly continue to damage you.
I wish you well.
From your first post, June 17...
“Fast forwrd to 3 weeks ago...my AW came home so that we could have a romantic evening and it was the start of us trying to re-build. We agreed to be exclusive and work a 12 step program as a family. The next day she was with her boyfriend, was verbally abusive to me and left on a 10 day bender. She never even reached out when she came back...I had to.
I am so done...does this ring true to anyone?
The lies, manipulation, cheating and discarding?”
You also said her alcohol abuse has been an escalating problem for ten years of your fifteen year marriage.
No amount of burying and sacrificing your own feelings, needs and self-respect will fix her, but it will certainly continue to damage you.
I wish you well.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 8,617
So here is the thing. It's easy for us to point out the slip ups here, just like it is easy for you to tell your wife to stop drinking.
The practical application and the mental shift and tools it takes to do that are something else, I know you are not there yet, it takes time.
Now, you are rather throwing yourself under the bus here, but hey, you are also a grown up person and you get to make those decisions for yourself, but since you asked.
Your 11 year old is not a grown up and perhaps you should seriously consider keeping her as far away from her Mother's drama as possible. Now, 11 year olds have their own ideas and opinions, I know this well but you are still in charge and need to use your best judgement, of course.
She is not going to thank you later on for dragging her about to all of Moms little tea parties. Your wife may well want to see her Daughter and that's nice but it's also incredibly selfish.
If you can't bring yourself to do this to protect your Daughter from the tornado of madness, and you can't even do it for yourself, then perhaps do it for your wife? Should she ever get in to recovery she will not be thanking you for allowing your Daughter exposure to her during some of her darkest struggles.
She's not thinking right, your Daughter doesn't have the life experience to navigate this, that leaves you.
The practical application and the mental shift and tools it takes to do that are something else, I know you are not there yet, it takes time.
Now, you are rather throwing yourself under the bus here, but hey, you are also a grown up person and you get to make those decisions for yourself, but since you asked.
Your 11 year old is not a grown up and perhaps you should seriously consider keeping her as far away from her Mother's drama as possible. Now, 11 year olds have their own ideas and opinions, I know this well but you are still in charge and need to use your best judgement, of course.
She is not going to thank you later on for dragging her about to all of Moms little tea parties. Your wife may well want to see her Daughter and that's nice but it's also incredibly selfish.
If you can't bring yourself to do this to protect your Daughter from the tornado of madness, and you can't even do it for yourself, then perhaps do it for your wife? Should she ever get in to recovery she will not be thanking you for allowing your Daughter exposure to her during some of her darkest struggles.
She's not thinking right, your Daughter doesn't have the life experience to navigate this, that leaves you.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: W Washington
Posts: 11,589
please consider the impact of all of this on your child. your AW is her other parent - children have an intrinsic dependence on their parents for their very survival. one of her parents has totally bailed on her responsibility and obligation to assure the child's safety and security. the child is going to experience serious abandonment issues and their sense of self and security takes a big hit, even if they still have one active involved parent.
but then THAT parent is so focused on the parent who abandoned them, they once again feel emotionally abandoned. no one is fully present TO THEM. it's all about the other parent. this sets up feelings of Less Than, Not Good Enough, Unimportant, Devalued, Unsafe, Insecure, Frightened. and they are continually reinforced by whatever latest antics the other parent is up to. they see the other parent being rewarded for bad behavior by getting all the remaining parent's attention.
it is also quite upsetting for any child to see their parent in the hospital. this reinforces the sense of possible loss of one of their (supposed) guardians. or they will have a temporary sense of hope that maybe mommy will get better and come home. how many times in your child's short life has that hope been dashed? same child who knew her mother was living on the property but drinking herself to oblivion?
it's really time to think about how this is all impacting the tender young 11 year old who does not have the skills to manage ANY of this. time to start being part of the solution. your baby needs you.
but then THAT parent is so focused on the parent who abandoned them, they once again feel emotionally abandoned. no one is fully present TO THEM. it's all about the other parent. this sets up feelings of Less Than, Not Good Enough, Unimportant, Devalued, Unsafe, Insecure, Frightened. and they are continually reinforced by whatever latest antics the other parent is up to. they see the other parent being rewarded for bad behavior by getting all the remaining parent's attention.
it is also quite upsetting for any child to see their parent in the hospital. this reinforces the sense of possible loss of one of their (supposed) guardians. or they will have a temporary sense of hope that maybe mommy will get better and come home. how many times in your child's short life has that hope been dashed? same child who knew her mother was living on the property but drinking herself to oblivion?
it's really time to think about how this is all impacting the tender young 11 year old who does not have the skills to manage ANY of this. time to start being part of the solution. your baby needs you.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 276
Ok. I did not take the daughter and am following the advice to have AW make the move to see her when she is out and I told AW that just now. Apparently she has been referred to . one month in patient program and that is good also. Still seeing her activates the longing...but still so upset at all the stuff that went down, which she always reminds me how hard I was on her.
sigh
sigh
Guest
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Northwest
Posts: 4,215
It’s good your daughter didn’t have to
deal with that, yes? Your ex might be through detox but attacking you for her actions is not a positive sign of any recovery progress.
Do you have access to a therapist or program that can help you?
deal with that, yes? Your ex might be through detox but attacking you for her actions is not a positive sign of any recovery progress.
Do you have access to a therapist or program that can help you?
Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Boston
Posts: 2,936
...she always reminds me how hard I was on her.
Well there is no "equivalency" here. Yes you should get into AlAnon and therapy and start owning your own less than stellar behavior. But that does not in any way mitigate what you have seen and lived with. The destructive behavior of the alcoholic is devastating especially when children are involved. Get busy getting your own sanity back so you can start providing the truly healthy examples of how to cope with this for your daughter.
Your wife can sling all the barbs she wants at you, you did not cause her drinking. You did not make her choose so badly with such addicted consistency.
AlAnon and counseling helped me recognize what was on my side of the street, the stuff I could control and clean up, and gave me tools to not be so triggered by the verbal abuse and manipulation of the A.
Good choice not to bring DD to hospital. Just keep talking to her and letting her know you are there for any questions and that you too struggle in dealing with this, but that you are always there to listen and talk. Strengthen the healthy bond.
Peace,
B
Well there is no "equivalency" here. Yes you should get into AlAnon and therapy and start owning your own less than stellar behavior. But that does not in any way mitigate what you have seen and lived with. The destructive behavior of the alcoholic is devastating especially when children are involved. Get busy getting your own sanity back so you can start providing the truly healthy examples of how to cope with this for your daughter.
Your wife can sling all the barbs she wants at you, you did not cause her drinking. You did not make her choose so badly with such addicted consistency.
AlAnon and counseling helped me recognize what was on my side of the street, the stuff I could control and clean up, and gave me tools to not be so triggered by the verbal abuse and manipulation of the A.
Good choice not to bring DD to hospital. Just keep talking to her and letting her know you are there for any questions and that you too struggle in dealing with this, but that you are always there to listen and talk. Strengthen the healthy bond.
Peace,
B
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 276
Hi All,
So during my meeting with AW at the hospital I foolishly asked her, "what do you want from me"? That question upset her because I have been asking her that throughout the last 7 months as our relationship was breaking under the pressure of the drinking, infidelity and my total distrust of her and not to mention my checking up on her (codie) behaviours.
I asked her that question because I need to know where her head is at with me and us. Foolish question, I know that now. But I need to know because I have to determine if there is any reason in investing in her. The question upset her instantly and she responded back to me that, "you always do this...our relationship is more important than my well being. Like here I am, in a hospital, and your only concern is the status of our relationship. So here I am asking you all if that question was out of touch, out of place or inappropriate? To my defence, I asked the question because again, she didn't even reach out to me. I found out she was in the hospital when her work notified me. So I am the last to know...just like a month ago when she ended up in the hospital after a bender. I responded then as I did this time....but she gave me hope that we could work together and then things fell apart.
Is it so wrong to want some clarity around what she wants to do? I feel like I am waiting for her to say, oh yes I love you. She kind of went around in circles, on one hand saying she wants me to be agood friend to her during this time, to, what do you want me to do to show you I love you...very confusing.
She has gone back and forth on me before so it is a scary prospect. Part of me loves her so and another part of me is so hurt by what has happened and when I bring stuff up she flies off the handle at me, telling me I am so hard on her for never letting it go and that she knows she did wrong but can't do anything to change it. Would a normal person be able to get over this? I feel like a mutant right now somehow like maybe I am being too demanding?
So during my meeting with AW at the hospital I foolishly asked her, "what do you want from me"? That question upset her because I have been asking her that throughout the last 7 months as our relationship was breaking under the pressure of the drinking, infidelity and my total distrust of her and not to mention my checking up on her (codie) behaviours.
I asked her that question because I need to know where her head is at with me and us. Foolish question, I know that now. But I need to know because I have to determine if there is any reason in investing in her. The question upset her instantly and she responded back to me that, "you always do this...our relationship is more important than my well being. Like here I am, in a hospital, and your only concern is the status of our relationship. So here I am asking you all if that question was out of touch, out of place or inappropriate? To my defence, I asked the question because again, she didn't even reach out to me. I found out she was in the hospital when her work notified me. So I am the last to know...just like a month ago when she ended up in the hospital after a bender. I responded then as I did this time....but she gave me hope that we could work together and then things fell apart.
Is it so wrong to want some clarity around what she wants to do? I feel like I am waiting for her to say, oh yes I love you. She kind of went around in circles, on one hand saying she wants me to be agood friend to her during this time, to, what do you want me to do to show you I love you...very confusing.
She has gone back and forth on me before so it is a scary prospect. Part of me loves her so and another part of me is so hurt by what has happened and when I bring stuff up she flies off the handle at me, telling me I am so hard on her for never letting it go and that she knows she did wrong but can't do anything to change it. Would a normal person be able to get over this? I feel like a mutant right now somehow like maybe I am being too demanding?
Member
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Chicago
Posts: 5,450
WL, you are not wrong to WANT clarity, but can you accept that it is not reasonable for you to EXPECT it from her right now, and for the foreseeable future?
How can she tell you what she is feeling when she clearly does not know herself? All you can expect from her now is meaningless appeasement or ambiguity. That's where she is. You can either meet her there or you cannot, but to expect that she is going to figure everything out all of a sudden and be able to guarantee you something is not reasonable.
Are you getting help for yourself? Expecting her to fix your emotional state is like going to the hardware store for bread. But there is support and help out there for you if you want to do something that might actually make a difference.
How can she tell you what she is feeling when she clearly does not know herself? All you can expect from her now is meaningless appeasement or ambiguity. That's where she is. You can either meet her there or you cannot, but to expect that she is going to figure everything out all of a sudden and be able to guarantee you something is not reasonable.
Are you getting help for yourself? Expecting her to fix your emotional state is like going to the hardware store for bread. But there is support and help out there for you if you want to do something that might actually make a difference.
Community Greeter
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 16,246
wll…...I consider it very normal for a spouse to be concerned about the "status" of their marriage---in the light of a situation where the forces are so severe that it could be torn apart.....
It looks, to me, like she is trying to steer the conversation away from her drinking and make you out to be a "black hat".....This is a very common tactic for the alcoholic to try to use....
It looks, to me, like she is trying to steer the conversation away from her drinking and make you out to be a "black hat".....This is a very common tactic for the alcoholic to try to use....
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 276
This is the sadness about alcoholism. It has destroyed my family and somehow I have to accept it, and not only that be okay with endless ambiguity. So it's either accept it and live in limbo or leave it and accept the huge changes and costs that it would entail. I had someone tell me about how co-dependent I was and it made me furious. Dealing with this in your personal life is hard enough...pretty sure NOBODY in this situation would not act in this fashion. So the prize for the spouse...being called co-dependent, losing so much. But the alcoholic who get's well is the hero. Sorry to be such a jerk tonight.
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