Dumb Question
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Dumb Question
I guess this has to do with making decisions for me and not so much worrying about AH. But he's in that outpatient program and says he's not drinking and doing it for him. More specifically, he says 'my priority is my family. I'd be drinking every night otherwise and I sure wouldn't be going to this outpatient program' - he says this because he knows I'm finally done with his words and his promises and me and the kids will just go if he continues on drinking.
Anyway, I'm a very social person. I'm feeling VERY cooped up, I want to go out and be with people and go to dinners and have contact with other humans AS A FAMILY. I've avoided much of this for the past many months because I didn't want to argue with AH about how many drinks he was going to have etc. and it just gives me anxiety to think about going out to a restaurant at night because the norm is for him to drink and me to be annoyed. He says we can do these things and I shouldn't worry about what he's going to do, he knows the consequences this time.
So do I go ahead and make plans to do things? Ugh this sounds so dumb. Or do I give him more time to press into this concept of not drinking and get comfortable? I really think I'll lose my friggin mind if we go out as a family to see a movie or whatever and he goes to the bathroom and comes back having had something to drink.
And I cannot IMAGINE having people over to swim or have dinner or whatever and him choosing not to drink. This has never happened. I don't even know that he knows how to navigate this situation. In the past he's said it's emasculating not to drink in social settings.
Do I sound like a co-dependent or what.
Anyway, I'm a very social person. I'm feeling VERY cooped up, I want to go out and be with people and go to dinners and have contact with other humans AS A FAMILY. I've avoided much of this for the past many months because I didn't want to argue with AH about how many drinks he was going to have etc. and it just gives me anxiety to think about going out to a restaurant at night because the norm is for him to drink and me to be annoyed. He says we can do these things and I shouldn't worry about what he's going to do, he knows the consequences this time.
So do I go ahead and make plans to do things? Ugh this sounds so dumb. Or do I give him more time to press into this concept of not drinking and get comfortable? I really think I'll lose my friggin mind if we go out as a family to see a movie or whatever and he goes to the bathroom and comes back having had something to drink.
And I cannot IMAGINE having people over to swim or have dinner or whatever and him choosing not to drink. This has never happened. I don't even know that he knows how to navigate this situation. In the past he's said it's emasculating not to drink in social settings.
Do I sound like a co-dependent or what.
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If he says he is ready, believe him.
His recovery is his side of the street. You need to do things you enjoy to nuture yourself. Myself, I would try to make an outing or two where there is no alcohol involved. Then go from there. I personally never drank in front of my XAH simply because I felt it was important to support him if he was trying. If he feels good to move forward, move forward. If not, do it without him! You need to take good care of YOU!
His recovery is his side of the street. You need to do things you enjoy to nuture yourself. Myself, I would try to make an outing or two where there is no alcohol involved. Then go from there. I personally never drank in front of my XAH simply because I felt it was important to support him if he was trying. If he feels good to move forward, move forward. If not, do it without him! You need to take good care of YOU!
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Honestly, I think you need to prepare yourself for the fact that he will relapse. Here's a HUGE red flag waving, right here:
He's not ready to quit for the right reasons.
But yes - you need to figure boundaries like this for you & really, only you CAN decide what is comfortable for your life & situation.
Have you read much about boundary setting?
he says 'my priority is my family. I'd be drinking every night otherwise and I sure wouldn't be going to this outpatient program'
But yes - you need to figure boundaries like this for you & really, only you CAN decide what is comfortable for your life & situation.
Have you read much about boundary setting?
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Oh I wouldn't drink in front of him. I remember back right after the DWI when he didn't drink for a couple of weeks he'd always pour me a drink, like every night, saying I shouldn't have to suffer just because he was. But it always made me feel uneasy.
You're right - I should do a non-alcoholic outing. Not much to do in this town besides drink (how sad is that), even our movie theater has a BAR. WHY?!
I guess I just need to start learning to trust him until his actions suggest otherwise. But man will my mind wander when he leaves us for any period of time!
You're right - I should do a non-alcoholic outing. Not much to do in this town besides drink (how sad is that), even our movie theater has a BAR. WHY?!
I guess I just need to start learning to trust him until his actions suggest otherwise. But man will my mind wander when he leaves us for any period of time!
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Firesprite - I agree, he's made some comments like that one above that just seem off to me.
I asked him last night what he wanted to do this weekend and he made the 'joke' that he wants to go somewhere and have some beers... he knew I was annoyed and then said he was joking and then talked about the things we'd do around here. Go on walks, swim, play with the kids.
I asked him last night what he wanted to do this weekend and he made the 'joke' that he wants to go somewhere and have some beers... he knew I was annoyed and then said he was joking and then talked about the things we'd do around here. Go on walks, swim, play with the kids.
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Yes, your mind will wonder because there will ALWAYS be a choice in front of him to drink or not. There is not a single thing you can do to change that. However, you can take care of YOU, and do things you enjoy, and have a life that is not eaten up with anxiety and worry. It takes a lot of work, but when it happens it's a beautiful thing.
You did not Cause it, you cannot Control it, and you cannot Cure it. These decisions are his to do what he will. It's available and out there and you cannot change that.
I agree though with Firesprite above, I hope you have boundaries and protections in place for yourself. It's always a hope and pray for the best but prepare for the worst when dealing with an addict.
You did not Cause it, you cannot Control it, and you cannot Cure it. These decisions are his to do what he will. It's available and out there and you cannot change that.
I agree though with Firesprite above, I hope you have boundaries and protections in place for yourself. It's always a hope and pray for the best but prepare for the worst when dealing with an addict.
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Location: Southern US
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I agree with what Hopeful said.....and the only way you're going to know if your husband means what he's saying is to give it a shot. Maybe you could go to a restaurant that doesn't serve? Though, honestly, as you said - - that doesn't mean he can't excuse himself to use the restroom or something and sneak a drink. Then it's up to you how you respond.
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Originally Posted by fortworthnative 
Do I sound like a co-dependent or what.
The only person you have control over is you, that's it. Personally, instead of wondering what he would do in all these situations you mentioned, your only consideration is your boundary and what you would do.
What is your boundary? Do you not want to be out with a person (your Husband) if he drinks at all?
Boundaries can't be wishy washy. What he does is out of your control, what you do, in terms of your boundaries is completely in your control. For example, say your boundary is, I don't want to be around anyone who is drinking on family social outings.
So if you then go to the movie, he drinks, you response might be to get up and leave.
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Join Date: Feb 2013
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Posts: 11,589
AS A FAMILY
i noticed this a recurring theme in some of your posts. is there anything about "presenting" a family unit at outings that is important to you?
you had mentioned a 5 year old's bd party and were worried about taking AH and if he could stay sober. but that then seemed to create some type of obstacle for you to take the kids and go WITHOUT him.
if you feel the need to be social and go do stuff with other people, what is stopping you from doing so? anytime you have your children with you , you ARE a family.
i noticed this a recurring theme in some of your posts. is there anything about "presenting" a family unit at outings that is important to you?
you had mentioned a 5 year old's bd party and were worried about taking AH and if he could stay sober. but that then seemed to create some type of obstacle for you to take the kids and go WITHOUT him.
if you feel the need to be social and go do stuff with other people, what is stopping you from doing so? anytime you have your children with you , you ARE a family.
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I would make the plans with your kids. You can tell him your plan if you want and let him know if he is up for it he can join. You are thus out as a family (with the kids) and not taking on responsibility for making sure he can handle. He can make that call.
if he is too much of a delicate flower to not be offended by some sort of blanket “I’m going to make plans for me now and I am happy to invite you and let you decide if you can stomach them sober”, then I probably wouldn’t invite him. If after like 45 seconds of sober he is offended at the implication you still need to state your boundary that “family outing” is sober time, he doesn’t deserve the invite.
Also, family time without that stress of “how drunk will he be” with just your kids is actually fun and totally counts. And doesn’t require his performance of Family.
if he is too much of a delicate flower to not be offended by some sort of blanket “I’m going to make plans for me now and I am happy to invite you and let you decide if you can stomach them sober”, then I probably wouldn’t invite him. If after like 45 seconds of sober he is offended at the implication you still need to state your boundary that “family outing” is sober time, he doesn’t deserve the invite.
Also, family time without that stress of “how drunk will he be” with just your kids is actually fun and totally counts. And doesn’t require his performance of Family.
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Join Date: Oct 2013
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When he says he'd be drinking but his priority is his family, he isn't "doing it for him" really whatever the placating rhetoric.
He's doing it because he knows you mean what you say this time about not living with active addiction.
And you are right being uneasy with his "joke".
With my addict hat on, I can tell you that relapse starts well before we pour the first drink.
I agree with others--do something alcohol free and be clear on your boundaries.
I really hope it goes well but I have learned the hard way hope isn't a plan.
He's doing it because he knows you mean what you say this time about not living with active addiction.
And you are right being uneasy with his "joke".
With my addict hat on, I can tell you that relapse starts well before we pour the first drink.
I agree with others--do something alcohol free and be clear on your boundaries.
I really hope it goes well but I have learned the hard way hope isn't a plan.
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fwn……..I have heard more than one long-term recovering alcoholic say that they were very leary of going to places that were triggers for their drinking, when they were in early recovery. Especially, to places where there was a lot of drinking, or, where they had done their drinking, previously.....
He just started the outpatient program...so, to my way of thinking, it seems awfully early to be testing him...or, to ask him to "test" himself.....
Another thought....I know when one is married, after a while, the thinking has a tendency to shift to "Us" or "We" as the social identity...rather than "I" or "Me".... So it may take a while to get comfortable in showing up as a singleton rather than the partner in attendance. also....
Like, at family outings, dinners, weddings, funerals, day trips, etc....
But, you will get used to it....
For example...if you want to go to a movie...invite a girlfriend or someone else who wants to get out of their own house...lol....
Want to go out to a restaurant....same thing....
You may have to spend time cultivating friends and girlfriends to do things with....
I know it might sound weird, but my husband (the good one) and I, had so many single friends....that, we did all kinds of things with....It was, often, my husband and I and one other single person....and, we all had tons of fun....
My point is...it is possible to fly solo without it being weird....
Of course, I realize that in very small towns, it may be more unusual to socialize that way, than in a more urban area....
I do think, that, in sobriety...there will be many changes that need to be made, on both sides...in all kinds of ways that you probably have never even thought of, until now......So, I think that it is better if one can accept and adjust to change rather than to fight against it....constructive change.....
He just started the outpatient program...so, to my way of thinking, it seems awfully early to be testing him...or, to ask him to "test" himself.....
Another thought....I know when one is married, after a while, the thinking has a tendency to shift to "Us" or "We" as the social identity...rather than "I" or "Me".... So it may take a while to get comfortable in showing up as a singleton rather than the partner in attendance. also....
Like, at family outings, dinners, weddings, funerals, day trips, etc....
But, you will get used to it....
For example...if you want to go to a movie...invite a girlfriend or someone else who wants to get out of their own house...lol....
Want to go out to a restaurant....same thing....
You may have to spend time cultivating friends and girlfriends to do things with....
I know it might sound weird, but my husband (the good one) and I, had so many single friends....that, we did all kinds of things with....It was, often, my husband and I and one other single person....and, we all had tons of fun....
My point is...it is possible to fly solo without it being weird....
Of course, I realize that in very small towns, it may be more unusual to socialize that way, than in a more urban area....
I do think, that, in sobriety...there will be many changes that need to be made, on both sides...in all kinds of ways that you probably have never even thought of, until now......So, I think that it is better if one can accept and adjust to change rather than to fight against it....constructive change.....
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Originally Posted by AnvilheadII
AS A FAMILY
i noticed this a recurring theme in some of your posts. is there anything about "presenting" a family unit at outings that is important to you?
i noticed this a recurring theme in some of your posts. is there anything about "presenting" a family unit at outings that is important to you?
Do you have friendships and a social circle for yourself, separate from your husband and kids, fortworthnative?
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Join Date: Mar 2017
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It sounds like you want two things:
-to socialize "as a family"
-to socialize without worrying about whether husband is going to start drinking
I think that right now the two are not compatible. You may have to decide which one is more important for you right now - getting some of your social needs met by doing things that don't involve him; or going out into the social world "as a family", with the ever-present worry that he's going to pick up a drink.
(I'd go for the former - but I am that weird person who goes to movies and out for coffee on her own and always had my own friends even when married).
-to socialize "as a family"
-to socialize without worrying about whether husband is going to start drinking
I think that right now the two are not compatible. You may have to decide which one is more important for you right now - getting some of your social needs met by doing things that don't involve him; or going out into the social world "as a family", with the ever-present worry that he's going to pick up a drink.
(I'd go for the former - but I am that weird person who goes to movies and out for coffee on her own and always had my own friends even when married).
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Do you go to alanon meetings fwn?
The relapse process can begin weeks before they take
a drink, it starts with their thinking - which you have no
control over. Best to focus your energy and effort
on your boundaries - things you can control.
The relapse process can begin weeks before they take
a drink, it starts with their thinking - which you have no
control over. Best to focus your energy and effort
on your boundaries - things you can control.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 316
Back home (5 hours away) I have a wonderful group of girlsfriends that I've been friends with for 10+ years. Up until his DWI, I was going back there monthly for weekends with my friends and the boys and my husband would stay here for the weekend. Sure can't do that anymore, I'm not comfortable leaving them for the whole weekend without me.
I have friends here, absolutely. But it's a small town, everyone works with everyone and my friends are all wives of his friends. It's complicated.
I have ZERO problem going to functions on my own and don't 'need' my AH with me at all times. Recently been to a wedding, a couples night for school parents, and many other parties by myself here in this town when literally everyone else there had their spouses. I do lunches with one girlfriend I've made here (wife of my husbands co-worker) quite often.
Digging deeper, I guess I'm feeling a bit resentful and angry because our norm on the weekends used to be going out with other families, having them over, or going to their house so the kids could play and the adults could be together. Which is all anyone really does here. But of course for the men it always involved quite a bit of drinking. And most of the time I'd always end up in a fight with him by the end of the night because of his drinking anyway. So the norm actually isn't that great and we're probably going to need to find a new norm eventually.
So that's it. I'm feeling angry and resentful at the situation we've found ourselves in. And my guess is based on his comments this week that he's feeling angry and resentful himself because Lord knows he wouldn't be trying to quit drinking if I weren't one foot out the door.
I have friends here, absolutely. But it's a small town, everyone works with everyone and my friends are all wives of his friends. It's complicated.
I have ZERO problem going to functions on my own and don't 'need' my AH with me at all times. Recently been to a wedding, a couples night for school parents, and many other parties by myself here in this town when literally everyone else there had their spouses. I do lunches with one girlfriend I've made here (wife of my husbands co-worker) quite often.
Digging deeper, I guess I'm feeling a bit resentful and angry because our norm on the weekends used to be going out with other families, having them over, or going to their house so the kids could play and the adults could be together. Which is all anyone really does here. But of course for the men it always involved quite a bit of drinking. And most of the time I'd always end up in a fight with him by the end of the night because of his drinking anyway. So the norm actually isn't that great and we're probably going to need to find a new norm eventually.
So that's it. I'm feeling angry and resentful at the situation we've found ourselves in. And my guess is based on his comments this week that he's feeling angry and resentful himself because Lord knows he wouldn't be trying to quit drinking if I weren't one foot out the door.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 316
Originally Posted by mylifeismine
Do you go to alanon meetings fwn?
The relapse process can begin weeks before they take
a drink, it starts with their thinking - which you have no
control over. Best to focus your energy and effort
on your boundaries - things you can control.
The relapse process can begin weeks before they take
a drink, it starts with their thinking - which you have no
control over. Best to focus your energy and effort
on your boundaries - things you can control.
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Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 8,628
Originally Posted by fortworthnative
So that's it. I'm feeling angry and resentful at the situation we've found ourselves in. And my guess is based on his comments this week that he's feeling angry and resentful himself because Lord knows he wouldn't be trying to quit drinking if I weren't one foot out the door.
But it does happen again and again, and again, and again. Each time the promises, each time their breaking. Those who first responded to his sincere sounding promises of reform with relief, hope and at times even joy soon become disillusioned and bitter.
Spouses and other family members begin to ask a perfectly logical question: "If you really love and care about me, why do you keep doing what you know hurts me so badly?" To this the addict has no answer except to promise once again to do better, "this time for real, you'll see!" or to respond with grievances and complaints of his own.
The question of fairness arises as the addict attempts to extenuate his own admitted transgressions by repeated references to what he considers the equal or greater faults of those who complain of his addictive behavior. This natural defensive maneuver of "the best defense is a good offense" variety can be the first step on a slippery slope that leads to the paranoid demonization of the very people the addict cares about the most. Unable any longer to carry the burden of his own transgressions he begins to think of himself as the victim of the unfairness and unreasonableness of others who are forever harping on his addiction and the consequences that flow from it. "Leave me alone," he may snap. "I'm not hurting anybody but myself!"
He has become almost totally blind to how his addictive behavior does in fact harm those around him who care about him; and he has grown so confused that hurting only himself has begun to sound like a rational, even a virtuous thing to do"!
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FWN, i think you did a great job of getting down below the anger to the WHAT. obviously having a drunk idiot for a partner (sorry, my words not yours!!!) is nobody's idea of a good time. but how that DI then impacts and CHANGES our lives and lifestyle can really take toll! and next thing ya know, our entire life is centered around the DI and his level of soberness or drunkeness at any given time on any given day.
NOT alcohol related but - about 12 years ago we made the "mistake" of just going to look at a puppy. and somehow that puppy came home with us. we joke that we actually bought our house FOR the damn dog, so he'd have a nice big fenced yard to frolic in and protect.
then cuz we're stupid like that, a couple years later, what did we do? went to just look at another puppy. (mind you all i really wanted was a cat, but i digress). when the puppy was old enough we brought her home. we did all the "right" stuff - totally nailed the potty training, never had issues with chewing shoes, dogs were in their nice comfy pen during the day so they could not destroy the house, nor left out in the yard all day unattended.
long story short, dog #2 turned out to have some issues. we had been taking both dogs to the dog park for socializing etc, and she didn't cotton to this one schnauzer.........long story short, once my husband got the schnauzer's head OUT of her mouth, we never went back. the schnauzer was unharmed, except for the terror of dangling out of another dog's mouth and all the screaming........
dog #2 has some serious territorial issues. this has manifested in attacking our other dog a few times. the last "attack" ended up with dog #1 going to the vet to get the hole in his neck cleaned up and sutured. it wasn't AS BAD as it sounds but still pretty bad.
we now have peace between the two dogs because we have arranged our damn lives AROUND them. dog #2 is not a suitable candidate for being boarded, and the one time we did try to have someone stay here with the dogs while we went somewhere did not go well. so WE have not been on a trip or vacation together in like forever. either he goes somewhere and i stay home with the dogs, or i go and he stays home.
people are not a problem so we can have people over, but if dog #1 gets too excited and dog #2 feels cramped or stressed, there can be problems. we live on a lake, and dog #2 thinks she owns the lake (territory again) and has actually tried to drown dog #1 by putting her foot on his head and holding it underwater. so just to let dog #1 INTO the water safely takes some orchestration.
we cannot have anyone bring THEIR dog over. dog #2 is either going finally say "ok, enough MY house, MY yard, you need to stop" and do a grab and hold, or get confused and possibly attack dog #1. we have one idiot friend who ignores this rule and has brought his big dufus of a mastiff/pit bull mix and sho 'nuf, dog #2 finally had enough and put him in the down position. even tho dog #2 is female and the smaller of the two.
i should note that she really is a sweet dog? unless you'd ever seen her go all red zone you'd think we were crazy - that sweet baby???
my rambling point is.....i did not sign up for a life of being trapped on my own property!!! or never going on an overnight much less a vacation with my husband. my own adult daughter can't bring HER dog over - and that dog LOVES the water! my daughter isn't a big fan of dog #2 and is a tiny bit afraid of her.
the big difference of course is dog #2 doesn't have the option to embrace upon a different way of life and make CHANGES. we humans have done the best we can FOR her. we also could not relinquish her to a rescue as she had a history of attacking other dogs, so she would have had to be put down.
with an adult human partner we do have more choices. no you can't put him down! LOL you can however leave him on his own and leave him to it, IF he refuses to embrace changes. however, regardless, getting back to that preferred lifestyle, that is forever changed. knowing and accepting that, and then proceeding from a new perspective can go a long way to finding the peace and serenity you so richly deserve.
NOT alcohol related but - about 12 years ago we made the "mistake" of just going to look at a puppy. and somehow that puppy came home with us. we joke that we actually bought our house FOR the damn dog, so he'd have a nice big fenced yard to frolic in and protect.
then cuz we're stupid like that, a couple years later, what did we do? went to just look at another puppy. (mind you all i really wanted was a cat, but i digress). when the puppy was old enough we brought her home. we did all the "right" stuff - totally nailed the potty training, never had issues with chewing shoes, dogs were in their nice comfy pen during the day so they could not destroy the house, nor left out in the yard all day unattended.
long story short, dog #2 turned out to have some issues. we had been taking both dogs to the dog park for socializing etc, and she didn't cotton to this one schnauzer.........long story short, once my husband got the schnauzer's head OUT of her mouth, we never went back. the schnauzer was unharmed, except for the terror of dangling out of another dog's mouth and all the screaming........
dog #2 has some serious territorial issues. this has manifested in attacking our other dog a few times. the last "attack" ended up with dog #1 going to the vet to get the hole in his neck cleaned up and sutured. it wasn't AS BAD as it sounds but still pretty bad.
we now have peace between the two dogs because we have arranged our damn lives AROUND them. dog #2 is not a suitable candidate for being boarded, and the one time we did try to have someone stay here with the dogs while we went somewhere did not go well. so WE have not been on a trip or vacation together in like forever. either he goes somewhere and i stay home with the dogs, or i go and he stays home.
people are not a problem so we can have people over, but if dog #1 gets too excited and dog #2 feels cramped or stressed, there can be problems. we live on a lake, and dog #2 thinks she owns the lake (territory again) and has actually tried to drown dog #1 by putting her foot on his head and holding it underwater. so just to let dog #1 INTO the water safely takes some orchestration.
we cannot have anyone bring THEIR dog over. dog #2 is either going finally say "ok, enough MY house, MY yard, you need to stop" and do a grab and hold, or get confused and possibly attack dog #1. we have one idiot friend who ignores this rule and has brought his big dufus of a mastiff/pit bull mix and sho 'nuf, dog #2 finally had enough and put him in the down position. even tho dog #2 is female and the smaller of the two.
i should note that she really is a sweet dog? unless you'd ever seen her go all red zone you'd think we were crazy - that sweet baby???
my rambling point is.....i did not sign up for a life of being trapped on my own property!!! or never going on an overnight much less a vacation with my husband. my own adult daughter can't bring HER dog over - and that dog LOVES the water! my daughter isn't a big fan of dog #2 and is a tiny bit afraid of her.
the big difference of course is dog #2 doesn't have the option to embrace upon a different way of life and make CHANGES. we humans have done the best we can FOR her. we also could not relinquish her to a rescue as she had a history of attacking other dogs, so she would have had to be put down.
with an adult human partner we do have more choices. no you can't put him down! LOL you can however leave him on his own and leave him to it, IF he refuses to embrace changes. however, regardless, getting back to that preferred lifestyle, that is forever changed. knowing and accepting that, and then proceeding from a new perspective can go a long way to finding the peace and serenity you so richly deserve.
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