FionnaPerSe

FeelingGreat

I have stayed 'friends' with my ex who is not an A, but only by keeping my distance in many respects. If you're thinking buddies who get together now and then and keep in touch, it's very dependent on lots of factors. I would never call my ex without a good reason because he's remarried, but I visited him recently in hospital. Also visited his wife when she was in hospital. When we get together as a family I try not to talk to him on his own for any length of time.

There are qualifications here:
- Both of you have to be over the other, or you're just prolonging the agony
- If you or he finds another partner you need to be able to step back and be completely unthreatening. Observe strict etiquette regarding exes.
- Any later partners have to be ok with it.

FionnaPerSe

Completely agree with all that you said! I suppose it is a bit different when there is addiction involved too, as perhaps boundaries might still be easily broken, even if youre not together any longer. Which is why Im wondering wherher is possible to actually even HAVE friendship with anyone in active addiction>!

honeypig

Yes, IMHO, this is the issue. After a number of ups and downs after the separation and then divorce, XAH and I are "friends" too. At least that's the simple term I'd use to tell someone what our situation was. As you say, though, it's not a real friendship simply b/c of the trust issues and other problems that are part and parcel of active addiction.

For me, a lot of making the "friendship" work has been about lowering the bar of my expectations. For instance, if he doesn't remember something that we talked about recently (it happened a lot while we were married, drove me crazy), I am able to let it pass by now, 99 times out of 100. Many times, what used to be really irritating is now bearable simply b/c I know he's going to be going home, to his own house, in a little while, and I will have my own space back again. Having to live with someone in active addiction is very different from having occasional contact with that same person, I think.

He has been very helpful in some ways, and I'm really grateful for that. For example, he stops over to feed and let out my dogs at lunchtime--something I used to be able to work into my old job but can't, now that I've switched jobs. The past two summers he's helped me w/the yard work a great deal, which again, I appreciate. At first, I was suspicious of his motives, but eventually decided I'd just smile and say thank you. He might be doing these things out of guilt or out of a need to see himself as a good person, who knows, but in the end, it all comes down to whether I let it be controlling or just take it at face value.

Many of the stories I've read here feature A's who I can't imagine their partners/spouses would EVER want to be "friends" with, absolutely. But depending on the particular individuals involved and the situation, I think it's possible to have--shall we call it an "amicable relationship" rather than a friendship?--with one's X, yes.

FallenAngelina

Don't ever judge what's right for you compared to someone else's horrendous situation. Your X not being abusive is no reason to maintain contact and friendship. Many Xs, addicts or not, are not enemies, but also not pals after a non-abuse relationship. The bottom line always has to be our peace of mind, not whether someone deserves our company. If you feel at peace about a friendship, then the friendship is a wonderful thing to have. If you are constantly having to manage and massage the "friendship," then it's likely not contributing positively to your life.

My own experience:
I am quite close with my XH, who is not an alcoholic nor an addict of any kind. He's emotionally healthy. We share a lot of harmonious time together with our sons, one of whom has special needs. This works because we have done a lot of good work around honesty and boundaries. He is happily re-married and all three of us have healthy respect for this.

I am not able to maintain any kind of friendship with my XABF. He is in active addiction with alcohol and consequently, not up to the level of honesty and self-awareness that would make for a fulfilling friendship for me. His boundaries are horrendous. He's a wonderful person, so full of life, imagination and love, but because of the honesty and boundary issues, I can't have him in my life in any way. We tried friendship many times, such as my XH and I are able to have, and we were unable to stick to the boundaries. I say "we" because I recognize that I have just as much of a challenge as he does in our relationship.

Bottom line:
Your peace of mind needs to be your measure, not what you "should" be able to do or what "should" be salvaged or what he deserves. If you do not feel at peace with the contact, it's no good to you. If you do, then treasure it.

FionnaPerSe

Thanks a lot honeypig, this somehow resonates with my situation, as my X is really a good person deep down so I believe we could be in such 'amicable relations' as u said too. However, this is only to be figured out I suppose, as im still to see how many of his suggestions to remain ok with each other will actually have real ACTIONS behind it to prove it.

Last time he said he will come to visit, he just didnt. So i suppose we'll see whats behind all these 'good intentions' which I even honestly believe he DOES have (or perhaps its indeed a feeling of guilt too alright). But nevertheless- it is what it is and at this point, I am completely lowering my expectations too.

It does sucks tho, but its the reality of things.

Thanks again, this is very helpful and promising indeed

FionnaPerSe

FallenAngelina this is a great reply ,thanks so much and again, it completely resonates too.

So far, like i said, I am still indecisive what exactly it brings me-it has been a rollercoaster, as I am still trying to see about those boundaries. But indeed, youre so right on point- I have to follow my own inner peace in that sense and at all times too.

SO, if I see that nothing positive is contributed to my life in that sense any longer, I will have to detach entirely then, I suppose.

Amaranth

I would wait till you are absolutely sure that you no longer want to be in a relationship with him. You would be very vulnerable to his manipulations if deep down you still want to be with him.

Apply it to the alcoholic drinking socially. The intention to drink in a controlled manner might be there but many of us know how that can end.

Are you sure that you can see him as a friend without the old dynamic between you taking over again? Are you are putting yourself in a position where you can be hurt again?

I fantasize about completely breaking down and dismantling my relationship with my husband and then starting again from scratch, as if we just met, and rebuild a new relationship. I will stay in contact with him to some extent because we have kids together. What is your motivation?

SoberRican

Unfortunately I cannot or will not be friends with my ex wife. Its toxic. And a big trigger for me. Her lable to me is just my baby mama. Thats it. I dont wish I'll will. And her happiness in whatever.

SparkleKitty

I guess my question is, can you honestly say you are friends now?

Does he treat you with the same respect you would treat someone you consider a friend? Does he offer the support and space you'd hold for your friends? Is he there for you when you need him?

I'm fortunate to have a great relationship with my ex-husband (not an A), but had we not given each other space and time and, yes, distance, in the wake of our divorce we would not have been able to achieve the friendship we have now. We needed to be ourselves apart before we could even imagine ourselves as anything other than Two People in a Relationship. This is part of the cycle of relationship. And unless you were good friends to begin with, before you became lovers, I think the challenge is even greater.

When you say that you want to remain friends because he was never abusive, it sound like you think you owe him something for not engaging in behavior you'd find unacceptable? Or is that what you are saying to yourself because you are simply not ready to let go of him? There are no judgments here, but questions you should ask yourself--for your OWN growth and well-being.

FionnaPerSe

Of course Sparkle, dont worry, I dont find any of this as 'preaching'... and am truly happy with anyones imput on the subject.

I do feel genuinely drawn to him as a person too, and a person behind his illness- we were also friends not just partners, and so we can talk for hours on end on certain subjects, so I guess i would miss that a lot. However, there was lot of emotions here too of course, and so, I cant detach properly just yet, and from imagining him getting better and actually being in a relationship with him again. Which i suppose is not really healthy for me, at least not for now.

ALso, I offered my support should he want to seek help in the future, so in this way, i also feel guilty too if i 'dissapear' totally out of his life and sight.

Its complex enough alright- I guess I am better off detaching for now entirely and maybe later on go back IN as a friend. Even if I believe I am already OVER HIM once I fully realised how he cant choose differently, for that matter.

But i do believe in friendships in general. I mean, just because someone is not with you anymore doesnt necessarily mean you have to forget all other stuff that was good with that person. And if they are addict, perhaps its much harder to accomplish consistency in that sense, but as HoneyPig said, maybe to a certain degree it is!? It somehow seems right for me now to be able to have that with him. But as I said, time will tell in my case I suppose, as everything is still fresh and im tryin to find my way of dealing with it.

Which is why everyones stories are a great example too. And which is why i wondered if there are any which proved successful over time!?

AnvilheadII

your thread from a couple days ago had a different "theme" - conversations had not gone well, he threw some barbs at you, said some other hurtful things and you were seeing the benefit of going No Contact. since you are still early in the break up process, you are likely cycling thru some of the grief stages, and not really sure at all WHAT it is you want.

which is ok. it takes time.

FionnaPerSe

well he said this about our marriage which is why i 'lost it' in the moment, and was posting about it, but overall, he was and still is mainly respectful towards me. Also, this thread is about friendship, not whether to stay in relationship.

But I get what youre saying- there is still unprocessed hurt alright. But hopefully, this is why we also have this forum, to help us with clearing our thinking and help additionally discern whats what.

thanks for your thoughts

FallenAngelina

This was also key for me and my XH (not an alcoholic.)



Feeling guilty about not "being there" for the alcoholic is a huge flapping red flag.

Any alcoholic who wishes to embrace recovery has an enormous recovery community at his fingertips, people ready and eager to help him every single baby step of the way for as long as it takes. These people are educated and emotionally equipped to truly help an alcoholic who is serious about recovery. There is no alcoholic whose recovery depends on the "help" of a spouse, lover or friend - and if that recovery does depend on that person, then it is not truly recovery at all. Our guilt over not "being there" (or fear that the alcoholic will crumble without our "help") is toxic for those of us who love an alcoholic as well as for the alcoholic himself.

Amaranth

Any alcoholic who wishes to embrace recovery has an enormous recovery community at his fingertips, people ready and eager to help him every single baby step of the way for as long as it takes. These people are educated and emotionally equipped to truly help an alcoholic who is serious about recovery. There is no alcoholic whose recovery depends on the "help" of a spouse, lover or friend - and if that recovery does depend on that person, then it is not truly recovery at all. Our guilt over not "being there" is toxic for those of us who love an alcoholic as well as for the alcoholic himself.

well said angelina. May we never forget this fact

FionnaPerSe

Which is why I said 'support' not 'help', as we can still potentially be friends with them hopefully, even with them getting help elsewhere...

But definitely, this is a great point for all those who think they can actually be the ones that should help their partner.

In my opinion, support yes, but help no. Unless youre an expert on the subject, but not even then, as you cant be objective if emotionally involved alright

dandylion

To me.....I see "support" for one's partner or friend...about their recovery...is just not being obstructive.

Hawkeye13

I think distance to heal and maybe going back "in" as you said might be best for you.
You seem still intensely attached, which I understand but leaves you open for additional hurt and manipulation.

LifeChangeNYC

FionnaPerSe

I am simply in awe with all the insightful and heartfelt comments. You absolutely rock, peeps and thank you so much for all the feedback! Also, its so comforting to know how I'm not the only one with those complex emotions and dilemmas and question marks above my head. It IS a process alright. And I just figured, even not knowing everything at once and understanding it fully or even partially right now CAN be actually quite a positive space to be in also- and so, I suppose, to be comfortable in our own discomfort is also to be learned from and it is self-honouring too.

Respect u guys!!!!!