Money Quacker alert?
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Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2019
Posts: 36
Money Quacker alert?
Okay, so here's the deal (sorry for this rambling post) , both funny and sad really, but I thought I'd post it. About six weeks ago, I put the car that my AH was driving drunk into storage. Then I came home two weeks ago and found him drunk in the yard. He said he had stolen from an AA meeting.
Well, that was a big old lie. It turns out he cashed a check for a $500 no-interest loan from an old credit card that we haven't used in a year or so that has no balance, and that's how he bought the beer (and lottery tickets). I found out when I got an email a few days later ("Thank you for banking with us!"). Needless to say, I (calmly) confronted him about it when he got in from an AA meeting. He was embarrassed, gave me $350 back, took funds from our bank account, paid the credit card off and closed the account in front of me.
Then the next day, two Sundays ago, we had this conversation:
AH: I know you don't want to hear it, but I'd like to have the car back. I've made a plan. Here's a schedule all typed out. I'm going to go to TWO meetings a day. I don't have enough things to keep me busy, and I start thinking about beer and get into trouble.
ME: You don't have enough things to do all day? I think I can keep busy for at least a YEAR with the things that have to be done around here. How about the garden?
AH: It's too hot. I don't like the sun.
ME: cleaning out the garage?
AH: I don't know what you would like me to get rid of, and it's too hard to second guess.
ME: Light cleaning, dusting?
AH: It's too boring.
ME: Vacuuming?
AH: Hurts my ears.
ME: Helping out in my home office with the paperwork?
AH: I don't know all your software programs.
ME: Feeding/brushing the animals?
AH: They like you better.
ME: Organizing the basement?
AH: It brings back OCD memories, too stressful.
ME: Helping me list more books on Bookmooch/Paperback swap?
AH: You know I don't like to read.
ME: Listing sales on ebay?
AH: Too complicated.
ME: Well, what do you like to do?
AH: Listen, I just would like to go to two meetings a day to keep me sober.
ME: Can't you get a ride from someone else?
AH: Nobody lives close by, and if they do, they go to a meeting that I don't like.
ME: Sheesh!
AH: Just let me have the car back, and you'll see!
And so I caved. (Okay, raise your hand if you think he went to two meetings a day?) ***insert sound of crickets here****
Obviously not. But he did go to one a meeting a day and was home afterwards within ten minutes with the car. I have no evidence that he was drinking when I wasn't here in my office, but he was sober when I got in that week. Then as luck would have it, the car developed a mechanical problem and turns out it needs a new gasket last week.
ME: It's going to cost about $2,000 to fix it, but I want it done.
AH: Why don't you just buy me a new car? You can afford it!
ME: No, no, no, no, no, no, no.
AH: A gently used car on craigslist, say, a $10,000 car?
ME: Are you out of your mind? No, no, no, no, no.
So the car is still being worked on currently. On Monday, he gets a ride to an AA meeting, while I go to meet a new potential client who would be a great client, but is somewhat difficult and will require lots of work/attention. I got his person's business (woohoo) and I was extremely excited about it, but then when I called home to tell him....he was totally plastered ("I'm not drunk! And if I am, don't yell at me!") He had borrowed money from a co-worker on Friday night, saved it, planned to use it to get drunk while I was out, and as soon as he was dropped off home from the meeting, he walked to the liquor store (on his bad knees) and bought two six packs of beer and drank all 12 cans within two hours (which was how long I was gone). How he didn't pass out, I don't know. He took off monday from work because he was too drunk to go in and Tuesday because "I'm still recovering."
Then last night this:
AH: I want you to take me off all your bank accounts and never give me access to money. That way I won't drink. Put your jewelry in a safe deposit box.
ME: But you've stolen money out of my wallet before, cashed in british pounds that I was holding onto, borrowed money from work, stole my mother's credit card. How would that stop you from drinking?
AH: See, it's the money that's the problem. If I didn't have money, i wouldn't be drinking. I won't borrow anything from anyone. Anyway, it's kind of your fault because you've been making more money these last few years.
ME: Getting us out of debt is my fault???
AH: It's a well-known fact that alcoholics can't handle money. I'm trying to be brutally honest with myself.
ME: (eye roll)
so....do I indulge his ridiculous fantasy that this will help? Maybe it's a good idea anyway just to protect myself? Surely money is not "the problem." and I know that running a successful business is a GOOD thing, not a bad thing. I was wondering, has anyone heard this from other alcoholics, blaming money as the problem?
He still has no sponsor, does such little action. It's like being a dry drunk, isn't it?
Oh, and this morning he asked if we're going on a vacation this year (but wants me to plan it, as it's too hard apparently to make travel arrangements lol).
Well, that was a big old lie. It turns out he cashed a check for a $500 no-interest loan from an old credit card that we haven't used in a year or so that has no balance, and that's how he bought the beer (and lottery tickets). I found out when I got an email a few days later ("Thank you for banking with us!"). Needless to say, I (calmly) confronted him about it when he got in from an AA meeting. He was embarrassed, gave me $350 back, took funds from our bank account, paid the credit card off and closed the account in front of me.
Then the next day, two Sundays ago, we had this conversation:
AH: I know you don't want to hear it, but I'd like to have the car back. I've made a plan. Here's a schedule all typed out. I'm going to go to TWO meetings a day. I don't have enough things to keep me busy, and I start thinking about beer and get into trouble.
ME: You don't have enough things to do all day? I think I can keep busy for at least a YEAR with the things that have to be done around here. How about the garden?
AH: It's too hot. I don't like the sun.
ME: cleaning out the garage?
AH: I don't know what you would like me to get rid of, and it's too hard to second guess.
ME: Light cleaning, dusting?
AH: It's too boring.
ME: Vacuuming?
AH: Hurts my ears.
ME: Helping out in my home office with the paperwork?
AH: I don't know all your software programs.
ME: Feeding/brushing the animals?
AH: They like you better.
ME: Organizing the basement?
AH: It brings back OCD memories, too stressful.
ME: Helping me list more books on Bookmooch/Paperback swap?
AH: You know I don't like to read.
ME: Listing sales on ebay?
AH: Too complicated.
ME: Well, what do you like to do?
AH: Listen, I just would like to go to two meetings a day to keep me sober.
ME: Can't you get a ride from someone else?
AH: Nobody lives close by, and if they do, they go to a meeting that I don't like.
ME: Sheesh!
AH: Just let me have the car back, and you'll see!
And so I caved. (Okay, raise your hand if you think he went to two meetings a day?) ***insert sound of crickets here****
Obviously not. But he did go to one a meeting a day and was home afterwards within ten minutes with the car. I have no evidence that he was drinking when I wasn't here in my office, but he was sober when I got in that week. Then as luck would have it, the car developed a mechanical problem and turns out it needs a new gasket last week.
ME: It's going to cost about $2,000 to fix it, but I want it done.
AH: Why don't you just buy me a new car? You can afford it!
ME: No, no, no, no, no, no, no.
AH: A gently used car on craigslist, say, a $10,000 car?
ME: Are you out of your mind? No, no, no, no, no.
So the car is still being worked on currently. On Monday, he gets a ride to an AA meeting, while I go to meet a new potential client who would be a great client, but is somewhat difficult and will require lots of work/attention. I got his person's business (woohoo) and I was extremely excited about it, but then when I called home to tell him....he was totally plastered ("I'm not drunk! And if I am, don't yell at me!") He had borrowed money from a co-worker on Friday night, saved it, planned to use it to get drunk while I was out, and as soon as he was dropped off home from the meeting, he walked to the liquor store (on his bad knees) and bought two six packs of beer and drank all 12 cans within two hours (which was how long I was gone). How he didn't pass out, I don't know. He took off monday from work because he was too drunk to go in and Tuesday because "I'm still recovering."
Then last night this:
AH: I want you to take me off all your bank accounts and never give me access to money. That way I won't drink. Put your jewelry in a safe deposit box.
ME: But you've stolen money out of my wallet before, cashed in british pounds that I was holding onto, borrowed money from work, stole my mother's credit card. How would that stop you from drinking?
AH: See, it's the money that's the problem. If I didn't have money, i wouldn't be drinking. I won't borrow anything from anyone. Anyway, it's kind of your fault because you've been making more money these last few years.
ME: Getting us out of debt is my fault???
AH: It's a well-known fact that alcoholics can't handle money. I'm trying to be brutally honest with myself.
ME: (eye roll)
so....do I indulge his ridiculous fantasy that this will help? Maybe it's a good idea anyway just to protect myself? Surely money is not "the problem." and I know that running a successful business is a GOOD thing, not a bad thing. I was wondering, has anyone heard this from other alcoholics, blaming money as the problem?
He still has no sponsor, does such little action. It's like being a dry drunk, isn't it?
Oh, and this morning he asked if we're going on a vacation this year (but wants me to plan it, as it's too hard apparently to make travel arrangements lol).
Guest
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Northwest
Posts: 4,215
This is a terrific opportunity to separate your finances as much as possible including your credit if you can.
It will have zero affect on whether he drinks but maybe you can put some things in place to protect your assets from him.
Is that car going back in storage, I hope?
wishing you strength and clarity...
It will have zero affect on whether he drinks but maybe you can put some things in place to protect your assets from him.
Is that car going back in storage, I hope?
wishing you strength and clarity...
Member
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 8,617
Absolutely I would be logged in to the accounts right now and on the phone removing him from all credit cards, destroy his bank card, take his name off everything.
As you stated this has exactly zero to do with his drinking but could benefit you greatly.
He does need a bank account, of course, so if he already has one that's great. The only hitch might be if he is having his wages direct deposited in to your joint account, so perhaps sort that out first.
I say go for it.
It does sound very much like he thinks you are going to be the alcohol/money police and that's a terrible spot to be in, so for sure he needs access through his own account to some money.
Sounds like he is not in a good place at all sheepherder. Anyone who thinks "confessing" to stealing from a contribution jar at AA is better than confessing to firing up an unused credit card - well.
As you stated this has exactly zero to do with his drinking but could benefit you greatly.
He does need a bank account, of course, so if he already has one that's great. The only hitch might be if he is having his wages direct deposited in to your joint account, so perhaps sort that out first.
I say go for it.
It does sound very much like he thinks you are going to be the alcohol/money police and that's a terrible spot to be in, so for sure he needs access through his own account to some money.
Sounds like he is not in a good place at all sheepherder. Anyone who thinks "confessing" to stealing from a contribution jar at AA is better than confessing to firing up an unused credit card - well.
Community Greeter
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 16,246
OMG...skipper stole the very words out of my head/mouth......I was thinking that it sounds so much like a parent-child relationship.....
lol...like the teenager who wants to use the car...but, doesn't want to do his chores.
And...the mother who just gives in to the kid because he wears her down.....(
(I couldn't believe that you gave him the car....when you KNEW that he wasn't going to go to 2 meetings per day!)…..and, not to mention that when he is drunk driving he could bring financial disaster to your family by getting into an accident and even killing or maiming someone else....
Having said that---I DId find his abilities to give excuses and his boldness in giving the most feeble of arguments, to be very funny!...lol....
Sounds like he is really struggling with his disease....
At this time, he is controlled by the disease and the war that is going on in his head....
It will be impossible to trust him and to negotiate with him....and, he probably remembers l ittle of the things that he has said or promised....
the boundaries that keep you protected will have to be done by you...
lol...like the teenager who wants to use the car...but, doesn't want to do his chores.
And...the mother who just gives in to the kid because he wears her down.....(
(I couldn't believe that you gave him the car....when you KNEW that he wasn't going to go to 2 meetings per day!)…..and, not to mention that when he is drunk driving he could bring financial disaster to your family by getting into an accident and even killing or maiming someone else....
Having said that---I DId find his abilities to give excuses and his boldness in giving the most feeble of arguments, to be very funny!...lol....
Sounds like he is really struggling with his disease....
At this time, he is controlled by the disease and the war that is going on in his head....
It will be impossible to trust him and to negotiate with him....and, he probably remembers l ittle of the things that he has said or promised....
the boundaries that keep you protected will have to be done by you...
Member
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 1,618
What the others said ... sounds like this dude is infantilizing himself (he can't resist temptation, he can't think for himself, he needs Mommy to tell him what to do) and in the process, parentifying you as Mean Mommy, whether you want to be parentified or not.
My suggestion is to keep your finances separate, don't negotiate about the car (he lies about drinking and can't be relied on, therefore he's not safe to operate a few thousand pounds of metal moving at high speed), and practice saying things like "I don't know" or "why don't you think about that?" when he comes up with something that requires you to do things for him.
(I was in a similar situation - alcoholic ex used to position me so that I would be trying to come up with "solutions" to his problems, which he would shoot down one by one, and then get mad because I wasn't helping him enough. I also got the "I'm being brutally honest [about doing some godawful drunk thing and therefore deserve praise rather than criticism])".
My suggestion is to keep your finances separate, don't negotiate about the car (he lies about drinking and can't be relied on, therefore he's not safe to operate a few thousand pounds of metal moving at high speed), and practice saying things like "I don't know" or "why don't you think about that?" when he comes up with something that requires you to do things for him.
(I was in a similar situation - alcoholic ex used to position me so that I would be trying to come up with "solutions" to his problems, which he would shoot down one by one, and then get mad because I wasn't helping him enough. I also got the "I'm being brutally honest [about doing some godawful drunk thing and therefore deserve praise rather than criticism])".
Member
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: W Washington
Posts: 11,589
you are trying respond logically to someone who has not a clue about anything except their need for MORE. everything he has done and said has been about getting more alcohol. he's trying throw a smoke bomb so you don't SEE that, but even his trips to AA, are just part of the show.
is it true to some degree that ready access to cash can fuel addiction? certainly. is cash the PROBLEM? no.
this isn't about his new "wish" to not have access to money - due to his behaviors that should already be in play. it's about limiting the damage they can do financially. it's about preserving the financial resources for actual, real life, grown up expenses. and getting out of debt, running a successful business, retirement, etc.
if two people are in a boat, and one has a bailing pot and the other a drill, that boat ain't going nowhere and is eventually gonna sink. if you row, you can't bail, if you can't bail, the water keeps flowing in. while you are struggling with should i row or should i bail, other dude is busy drilling as many holes in the boat as possible.
imo, it's time to take "his bright ideas" out of the equation, and treat it all as fiscal prudence. no more money, no more toys, no more pretending like any of this is leading him towards sobriety. or that anything YOU do will nudge, urge, coerce or force him into sobriety.
is it true to some degree that ready access to cash can fuel addiction? certainly. is cash the PROBLEM? no.
this isn't about his new "wish" to not have access to money - due to his behaviors that should already be in play. it's about limiting the damage they can do financially. it's about preserving the financial resources for actual, real life, grown up expenses. and getting out of debt, running a successful business, retirement, etc.
if two people are in a boat, and one has a bailing pot and the other a drill, that boat ain't going nowhere and is eventually gonna sink. if you row, you can't bail, if you can't bail, the water keeps flowing in. while you are struggling with should i row or should i bail, other dude is busy drilling as many holes in the boat as possible.
imo, it's time to take "his bright ideas" out of the equation, and treat it all as fiscal prudence. no more money, no more toys, no more pretending like any of this is leading him towards sobriety. or that anything YOU do will nudge, urge, coerce or force him into sobriety.
Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 13,560
I would absolutely remove him from every account, and also change my address to a PO Box to protect YOURSELF from him. An addict will find a way, they always do.
My XAH stole from my children and from the mite box for church. I blamed by children for stealing out of the mite box and yelled at them, right in front of him. He let his young children take the heat for his thievery. Awesome.
I felt TERRIBLE after I found out.
Ugh. Is this really what you want for your life??
My XAH stole from my children and from the mite box for church. I blamed by children for stealing out of the mite box and yelled at them, right in front of him. He let his young children take the heat for his thievery. Awesome.
I felt TERRIBLE after I found out.
Ugh. Is this really what you want for your life??
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