Fantasy vs Reality (in my head)
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Join Date: Jun 2019
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Fantasy vs Reality (in my head)
I am currently on another trip with my kids and away from my husband. I do not what know why I keep doing this, but I keep thinking on nights that I called him that maybe he will choose to be sober. I do not know what has happened, it’s like that is never the choice anymore and I do not understand. I called him tonight much later than he thought I was awake, he did not answer but texted immediately and said he was waiting on a work call. What he was doing since this morning, but when he called me back after I texted asking if he could talk I could tell he was drunk. And all I said was he needs to turn his phone off and go to bed, there is no way he should be answering the phone sounding like that. And after he texted me saying I should not crap on him, he has a fear of losing his family etc.
Something has shifted in the last few months since the DWI, I cannot recall it always been this way or maybe I just did not realize. But he has more on the line than he ever has in his life and I feel like he cannot hold it together at night. He does not drink during the day, he has a breathalyzer in his car etc. but it is just the evenings that he cannot seem to control himself.
And stupid me, I keep thinking with all of his promises of trying out AA and reading “the book and “getting better” that he will simply make the choice to not drink.
And now he’s texting me that’s he is “not even close” to being drunk and that he’s “held back” even tonight because he was waiting on this work call.
Why cant I make my thoughts line up with what is really happening here. It’s like having hope is useless and that’s the saddest thought.
Something has shifted in the last few months since the DWI, I cannot recall it always been this way or maybe I just did not realize. But he has more on the line than he ever has in his life and I feel like he cannot hold it together at night. He does not drink during the day, he has a breathalyzer in his car etc. but it is just the evenings that he cannot seem to control himself.
And stupid me, I keep thinking with all of his promises of trying out AA and reading “the book and “getting better” that he will simply make the choice to not drink.
And now he’s texting me that’s he is “not even close” to being drunk and that he’s “held back” even tonight because he was waiting on this work call.
Why cant I make my thoughts line up with what is really happening here. It’s like having hope is useless and that’s the saddest thought.
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Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 8,630
It is sad.
Is it possible that the DWI was a wake up call for you. In order to continue you must have hope, as in hope that he will quit drinking or telling yourself it's not that bad, questioning your perception of it, especially if a person is standing in front of you saying these things (I assuming that).
After the DWI perhaps neither of you can go back to where you were in the denial of this really big problem.
Hope is not useless, however the reality is he has no intention of stopping drinking. He has made his decision. You said your wife and children will be leaving you if you don't stop drinking and he made a list and now he's sitting at home - drinking.
Then when you call him on it he defends himself. I feel bad (because my wife and children are leaving) so I must drink.
That's addiction.
All I want is a little relief!
Justification of addictive behavior is often self-pitying and subtly manipulative. The addict feels victimized, perhaps even martyred by what he believes to be the unfair circumstances of his existence and seeks consolation from his addiction. He believes himself thereby an exception and entitled to special treatment, including remission or at least mitigation of the sins caused by his addictive behavior.
The prospect of giving up his addiction or, even worse, having it taken away from him by the unsympathetic demands and requirements of others fills him with horror and indignation. Blind to the fact that it is his addiction and its consequences that are making him miserable, he falsely believes that the addiction is the only source of comfort and security available to him in a cruel, cruel world.
Excuses Alcoholics Make
Is it possible that the DWI was a wake up call for you. In order to continue you must have hope, as in hope that he will quit drinking or telling yourself it's not that bad, questioning your perception of it, especially if a person is standing in front of you saying these things (I assuming that).
After the DWI perhaps neither of you can go back to where you were in the denial of this really big problem.
Hope is not useless, however the reality is he has no intention of stopping drinking. He has made his decision. You said your wife and children will be leaving you if you don't stop drinking and he made a list and now he's sitting at home - drinking.
Then when you call him on it he defends himself. I feel bad (because my wife and children are leaving) so I must drink.
That's addiction.
All I want is a little relief!
Justification of addictive behavior is often self-pitying and subtly manipulative. The addict feels victimized, perhaps even martyred by what he believes to be the unfair circumstances of his existence and seeks consolation from his addiction. He believes himself thereby an exception and entitled to special treatment, including remission or at least mitigation of the sins caused by his addictive behavior.
The prospect of giving up his addiction or, even worse, having it taken away from him by the unsympathetic demands and requirements of others fills him with horror and indignation. Blind to the fact that it is his addiction and its consequences that are making him miserable, he falsely believes that the addiction is the only source of comfort and security available to him in a cruel, cruel world.
Excuses Alcoholics Make
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Join Date: Jun 2019
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His texts to me just now... and I’m somehow supposed to believe that he’s not drunk.
”I hear what you are saying but I am not drunk. Not even close. I have deliberately obsconcded from drinking as a result of this call.
I am a far from being whole at this point (as in being fixed or pure), but I am honestly trying to get there. You can come down on me all you want but in the end you will have to assess me as just that, an aggregation of my plus and minuses of personality.”
”What I am trying to say at this point, is that I am honestly trying to see my way to be the person you and I want me to be. I have plenty of BS of in the way my development and I really could use some support from you, my betroved.
I know based upon all of our previous conversations that you being an advocate for me is likely impossible, but I can't fight an uphill battle and have you **** down hill on me at the same time.
I have claimed prior that you truly want me to fail. You need to answer the call yourself.
Please help me. If nothing else it will benefit you in the divorce settlement”
He would never speak to me this way sober.
”I hear what you are saying but I am not drunk. Not even close. I have deliberately obsconcded from drinking as a result of this call.
I am a far from being whole at this point (as in being fixed or pure), but I am honestly trying to get there. You can come down on me all you want but in the end you will have to assess me as just that, an aggregation of my plus and minuses of personality.”
”What I am trying to say at this point, is that I am honestly trying to see my way to be the person you and I want me to be. I have plenty of BS of in the way my development and I really could use some support from you, my betroved.
I know based upon all of our previous conversations that you being an advocate for me is likely impossible, but I can't fight an uphill battle and have you **** down hill on me at the same time.
I have claimed prior that you truly want me to fail. You need to answer the call yourself.
Please help me. If nothing else it will benefit you in the divorce settlement”
He would never speak to me this way sober.
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Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Blue Ridge Mountains
Posts: 816
fwn,
Have you read any posts in the "quackers" thread?
Thats some kind of shakespearean quackers there.....
You've likely read about the 3 c's
You can't
control it
cure it
cause it
I told my now RAH not long after I began attending
alanon meetings about the 3 c's and if I did have any
control he would have stopped drinking a llooooong
time ago. His recovery is his, your's is your's.
Most important, never ever argue with a drunk person
or try to have any sort of meaningful dialogue - it is
a complete and utter waste of your breath and time.
Asking you to help is setting you up to be blamed for his
failure to get sober. You can help him find a detox center.
Have you read any posts in the "quackers" thread?
Thats some kind of shakespearean quackers there.....
You've likely read about the 3 c's
You can't
control it
cure it
cause it
I told my now RAH not long after I began attending
alanon meetings about the 3 c's and if I did have any
control he would have stopped drinking a llooooong
time ago. His recovery is his, your's is your's.
Most important, never ever argue with a drunk person
or try to have any sort of meaningful dialogue - it is
a complete and utter waste of your breath and time.
Asking you to help is setting you up to be blamed for his
failure to get sober. You can help him find a detox center.
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Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Northwest
Posts: 4,215
Ah, yes...the “well actually I’ve had two six packs in the last two hours but that’s not enough to make me DRUNK technically so how DARE she suggest I’m drunk?”
Betroved? Really?
It’s funny but it’s really not. So sorry, sweetie...
Betroved? Really?
It’s funny but it’s really not. So sorry, sweetie...
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Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 1,618
It sounds like:
I can only quit drinking if you're really nice to me ("I could really use some support ..."). I have not stopped drinking, so that proves that you're not really nice to me ("... you truly want me to fail ... "). Therefore the REAL problem is you not being nice.
It's warped and messed up, and I agree with the other posters, there is nothing to be gained in any kind of discussion.
I can only quit drinking if you're really nice to me ("I could really use some support ..."). I have not stopped drinking, so that proves that you're not really nice to me ("... you truly want me to fail ... "). Therefore the REAL problem is you not being nice.
It's warped and messed up, and I agree with the other posters, there is nothing to be gained in any kind of discussion.
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 16,246
fwn…..Yes, it is soo true----that any conversations with a person who is drunk is a waste of time....
That fact was so HARD for me to get through my own head!
I would forget that they, most likely would remember none...or, very little...of it....While I would still be agonizing about every word of it.....sigh....
That fact was so HARD for me to get through my own head!
I would forget that they, most likely would remember none...or, very little...of it....While I would still be agonizing about every word of it.....sigh....
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 10,944
Unfortunately and predictably, the words out of the mouth of an active alcoholic/addict are often lies to protect the addiction and to keep the consequences of drinking/using at bay. When we go along with or accept what we know to be untrue, we are also going along with the lie in order to: be nice, not make waves, support the lies we tell ourselves that everything is OK.
Alcoholism runs in my family like a thread that binds the generations. My stepson has been hospitalized because of his drinking and drug use, lets see, 6 times including currently (closest he's been to dead). He usually tries to tell everyone it's his blood pressure, but we all know. As soon as he is released from the hospital, we are pretty sure he will be right back to it. Even now, stone-cold sober, it would be pointless to have a conversation with him as long as his addiction is untreated. And whether or not he does something about his drinking and drug use is out of my control.
Took me a while to learn that, and it's something I keep working at--but I'm much more at peace now. I tell him I love him, and I pray for him. That is something I can do still
I'm sorry you've had to go through all this with your husband! Hang in there! Remember, we're open 24/7.
Alcoholism runs in my family like a thread that binds the generations. My stepson has been hospitalized because of his drinking and drug use, lets see, 6 times including currently (closest he's been to dead). He usually tries to tell everyone it's his blood pressure, but we all know. As soon as he is released from the hospital, we are pretty sure he will be right back to it. Even now, stone-cold sober, it would be pointless to have a conversation with him as long as his addiction is untreated. And whether or not he does something about his drinking and drug use is out of my control.
Took me a while to learn that, and it's something I keep working at--but I'm much more at peace now. I tell him I love him, and I pray for him. That is something I can do still
I'm sorry you've had to go through all this with your husband! Hang in there! Remember, we're open 24/7.
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 16,246
fqn…..I am going to do some spitballing, here....
Have you considered going to your lawyer and getting a separation agreement...AND, requesting the court that you be able to stay in the house (for now) with the children...and, him live elsewhere...?
That is what I did when I divorced the father of m y three young children....
My lawyer walked me through all of it and handled everything, for me....
I only saw my lawyer two or three times, in his office...and, the rest was done by him...by phone, etc....
I think that you have one young child and will be delivering in a couple of months will put in an advantage, in this request....
I am giving you the link to the following website...it is informative and educational in nature....and, it is listed by state....
www.womansdivorce.com
Have you considered going to your lawyer and getting a separation agreement...AND, requesting the court that you be able to stay in the house (for now) with the children...and, him live elsewhere...?
That is what I did when I divorced the father of m y three young children....
My lawyer walked me through all of it and handled everything, for me....
I only saw my lawyer two or three times, in his office...and, the rest was done by him...by phone, etc....
I think that you have one young child and will be delivering in a couple of months will put in an advantage, in this request....
I am giving you the link to the following website...it is informative and educational in nature....and, it is listed by state....
www.womansdivorce.com
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Join Date: May 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 13,560
Sending you a big hug as I know it's painful to watch. The reality is that addiction progresses, and this is progressed for him and this is where he is in the alcoholism stage. He is not going to admit or see it because along with addiction comes very strong denial.
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Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: W Washington
Posts: 11,589
I hear what you are saying but I am not drunk. Not even close. I have deliberately obsconcded from drinking as a result of this call.
obsconded?? not a word, dude, not a word.
again while he refused to admit that he is DRUNK, he did "admit" in so many word that he is or has been consuming alcohol.
the rest?
Load of Hooey.
obsconded?? not a word, dude, not a word.
again while he refused to admit that he is DRUNK, he did "admit" in so many word that he is or has been consuming alcohol.
the rest?
Load of Hooey.
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Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 223
We should start a thread “ texts from a drunk (ex)spouse”. Then we can all recognize our own lives in each others manipulative text messages and this defuse them. I found it actually comforting to read basically the same crap I get all the time coming from someone else’s drunken fingers. It’s so hard to believe you’re being manipulated constantly but, almost everyone of us have been served that same steaming plate of crap.
he’s not drunk. But you’re just going to have to decide if his plusses outweigh his minuses (being drunk). Also you are responsible for making him better. Insert veiled insinuation that you will be viewed poorly in divorce if you didn’t manage to cure him.
he’s not drunk. But you’re just going to have to decide if his plusses outweigh his minuses (being drunk). Also you are responsible for making him better. Insert veiled insinuation that you will be viewed poorly in divorce if you didn’t manage to cure him.
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Location: Boston
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It is a favorite and well-worn feint that As use: "I'm not drunk!" As if their personal assessment of level of intoxication has any relevance to the fact that THEY ARE STILL DRINKING!!!
Ummmm....yeah that's why the law utilizes breathalyzers! What a world it would be if the person who is legally bound to be sober and responsible could just say, "But Officer, I'm fine! I may have consumed alcohol but I'm not drunk!" while standing next to the wreckage of a drunk driving accident or a botched surgery or an airplane mishap or train accident etc., etc...
"How do you know an alcoholic is lying? Their lips are moving." Now, alcoholics don't like that joke, no they do not. They will get indignant as if you are implying they are out and out liars about everything. Some are, some aren't. But they will lie about their drinking, to you and to themselves, guaranteed. That's why one tenet of recovery, at least in AA, is a program of rigorous honesty. And that has to start with being honest with themselves, something we have no control over.
Peace,
B.
Ummmm....yeah that's why the law utilizes breathalyzers! What a world it would be if the person who is legally bound to be sober and responsible could just say, "But Officer, I'm fine! I may have consumed alcohol but I'm not drunk!" while standing next to the wreckage of a drunk driving accident or a botched surgery or an airplane mishap or train accident etc., etc...
"How do you know an alcoholic is lying? Their lips are moving." Now, alcoholics don't like that joke, no they do not. They will get indignant as if you are implying they are out and out liars about everything. Some are, some aren't. But they will lie about their drinking, to you and to themselves, guaranteed. That's why one tenet of recovery, at least in AA, is a program of rigorous honesty. And that has to start with being honest with themselves, something we have no control over.
Peace,
B.
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Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 6,262
It has helped me to ask myself the question: what is my motive? Typically not as selfless as I tell myself. Remember, denial and rationalization affect the codependent as much as the alcoholic.
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Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 1,618
"I'm not really drunk" while drinking reminds me of my now-deceased ex arguing that he was not actually a drunk driver despite crashing his car into a bridge while drinking. Apparently "real" drunk drivers are habitual offenders who drink and drive all the time - because he was sober most of the time when he drove, he was therefore not one of those drunk drivers.
You may note that there are some problems with this logic.
I too found it very helpful to hear from others exactly the same thing that I was experiencing. That helped me understand that a) my situation wasn't some uniquely awful thing that happened to me because I was a bad person; and b) ex's relationship with alcohol wasn't unique either, his disease was entirely predictable.
I know some people find the Al Anon/AA lingo a bit obscure, but for me it was really significant to learn that not only were there thousands of other people who had gone through the same thing as me, but that this experience was so common that aspects of it could be rendered in shorthand - "pink cloud", "terminal uniqueness", the "3 Cs", "dry drunk", etc.
You may note that there are some problems with this logic.
I too found it very helpful to hear from others exactly the same thing that I was experiencing. That helped me understand that a) my situation wasn't some uniquely awful thing that happened to me because I was a bad person; and b) ex's relationship with alcohol wasn't unique either, his disease was entirely predictable.
I know some people find the Al Anon/AA lingo a bit obscure, but for me it was really significant to learn that not only were there thousands of other people who had gone through the same thing as me, but that this experience was so common that aspects of it could be rendered in shorthand - "pink cloud", "terminal uniqueness", the "3 Cs", "dry drunk", etc.
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Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 500
FWN - I can totally relate to this, I am so sorry you are experiencing it. He may not be able to stop but who really knows as he has not truly made that choice. My AH pretty much drank every time he was away from the house and lied constantly. Less than one week after our 16 year old daughter did an impromptu intervention he was going to sports bars. I had no idea, only found out when going through credit card statements during divorce two years later. He made all the promises, cried, apologized to all of us and then went and did it anyway. It was such a hard realization for me that the threat and then the follow through of losing your family wasn't enough to make him try to stop. Either he knew he couldn't be successful and couldn't admit that to himself or he just didn't want to. I don't know but it's sad and its painful for everyone involved. I will say for me it was much easier to see the addiction when not living with it on a daily basis. With a little separation I could see the behavior separately from the man I loved. It makes me so sad for him but because he doesn't either have the ability or the desire to self reflect doesn't mean it's okay to abuse others, especially children. Living with an active alcoholic is abusive. I'm sure he is not a bad guy as my AH is not, but he is responsible for his behavior. My AH still tries to tell my children that "marriage is hard" 100% true, it was hard for me too , but I chose not to drink, over eat, drug, sleep around whatever to deal with my pain. He chose to drink, drive, lie, and manipulate his way through it, 100% his choice, and 100% my responsibility to no longer expose our children to that abuse once I was of healthy mind and body. I will be thinking and praying for you and your family.
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Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 224
Sending you support FWN. You've received tons of experienced feedback. I just wanted to add, the garbage he says to you worked for him for a long time, he is just upping the game as he realizes it is no longer working. As you learn, adjust and grow, it inevitably changes the dynamic and the situation/relationship between the two of you. On our best day, we could never "expect" what they would do/say next. Please save/document his texts in case you need them for your attorney. For me, a desperate alcoholic, afraid of losing his family can become dangerous. Mentally, financially, emotionally, etc., please be careful.
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Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 534
I agree with Dandy, who suggested you get a lawyer and begin the legal separation process. You're pregnant, you're not the one who DROVE DRUNK WITH YOUR CHILD....why should he get the house?
This way, you can get the kids settled in their schools, be closer to your Dr. etc.
He's obviously an alcoholic and it doesn't matter if he's "just drinking at night".
Get him kicked out of the house, let him find an apartment or whatever to live in and try to keep your life for you and your kids semi-normal.
Maybe he will sober up and you will still be his "betroved" again. Maybe you give him a name or two of some reputable rehabs.
But, it's time, fwn, to cut the cord. This isn't getting any better on its own and certainly will get worse as time goes on.
I'm really, really sorry.
This way, you can get the kids settled in their schools, be closer to your Dr. etc.
He's obviously an alcoholic and it doesn't matter if he's "just drinking at night".
Get him kicked out of the house, let him find an apartment or whatever to live in and try to keep your life for you and your kids semi-normal.
Maybe he will sober up and you will still be his "betroved" again. Maybe you give him a name or two of some reputable rehabs.
But, it's time, fwn, to cut the cord. This isn't getting any better on its own and certainly will get worse as time goes on.
I'm really, really sorry.
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