Endless cycle I can’t get out of
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Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 43
Endless cycle I can’t get out of
So here I am with an update that’s not really an update. I’m incredulous of how dumb I am. I joined SR about a month or two ago and since then I have been on an endless cycle of what I consider, nonsense. Mostly on my part.
AH has come back into my life many times now. A month or so ago, I thought we were done for sure because he didn’t contact me for about 10 days (he was away for work, though he was supposed to come back for 2-3 days during that time). Then he just texted me one day saying he was on his way back.
While he was at home, I took what I thought to be a very unlikely (for me) step and went to go see/stay with my family despite his protests, “I wish you’d stay so that we can work on things.” I had previously agreed on going on a few dates and seeing what changes we each had made and if we could possibly try again. Once I left, I sent an email saying we were/are separated for sure because his drinking and the associated behaviors cause me too much pain and I’m too invested in trying to control him, which is not healthy. I told him that he needs to let me go as much as I need to stop trying to controlling him. I also told him that he should find a place or I will, so that we can maintain the separation.
Fast forward 2-3 weeks and it’s the same thing. He went away to work again and came back home. It’s not like he’s pretending that nothing has happened because he acknowledged that he needs to change and that he’s started to look for a place. Yet again, he just came back. Yet again, I just let him. We live in one for the most expensive cities in the country so it’s not easy to just get another place (though I’d been dealing with all expenses for 99% of the relationship, so certainly he should be the one to move out and bear the additional expense, not me). During this last visit, I told him how much of a burden it is/has been over the past several years. He admitted and apologized. He told me knows that he’s in a much better place professionally and financially because I’ve been generous.
I feel so stupid. Why do I keep letting him come back? Granted, he seems to be doing more around the house, paying his share, and drinking a bit less (not by much). He tells me he wants to change but that he doesn’t know why he feels so down and that he’d never “hurt” himself even though no one will really miss him. That he’d never do anything because he doesn’t want anyone to “clean up and deal with the mess.” It clicked then, that I may be staying due to the fear he might do something to himself. He said something similar in the past... my heart sank. I left for the bedroom without saying anything.
I’m too coward or stupid, I don’t know which. I just think he has me in ball and chains now because I’d feel so guilty if something were to happen to him. I could not forgive myself. I do know he is depressed and was well before I met him but I didn’t see the red flags as I was totally head over heels over him. He has been looking to lease or getting roommates since I asked that we remain apart but nothing much has happened. I have so many mixed feeling about leaving him because I can’t bear to think he’s in such a deep place. But every day, I feel like I’m drowning.
I know now that I am not responsible for a grown man. But how do I leave a person in need? Or is this something else? Is this manipulation?
AH has come back into my life many times now. A month or so ago, I thought we were done for sure because he didn’t contact me for about 10 days (he was away for work, though he was supposed to come back for 2-3 days during that time). Then he just texted me one day saying he was on his way back.
While he was at home, I took what I thought to be a very unlikely (for me) step and went to go see/stay with my family despite his protests, “I wish you’d stay so that we can work on things.” I had previously agreed on going on a few dates and seeing what changes we each had made and if we could possibly try again. Once I left, I sent an email saying we were/are separated for sure because his drinking and the associated behaviors cause me too much pain and I’m too invested in trying to control him, which is not healthy. I told him that he needs to let me go as much as I need to stop trying to controlling him. I also told him that he should find a place or I will, so that we can maintain the separation.
Fast forward 2-3 weeks and it’s the same thing. He went away to work again and came back home. It’s not like he’s pretending that nothing has happened because he acknowledged that he needs to change and that he’s started to look for a place. Yet again, he just came back. Yet again, I just let him. We live in one for the most expensive cities in the country so it’s not easy to just get another place (though I’d been dealing with all expenses for 99% of the relationship, so certainly he should be the one to move out and bear the additional expense, not me). During this last visit, I told him how much of a burden it is/has been over the past several years. He admitted and apologized. He told me knows that he’s in a much better place professionally and financially because I’ve been generous.
I feel so stupid. Why do I keep letting him come back? Granted, he seems to be doing more around the house, paying his share, and drinking a bit less (not by much). He tells me he wants to change but that he doesn’t know why he feels so down and that he’d never “hurt” himself even though no one will really miss him. That he’d never do anything because he doesn’t want anyone to “clean up and deal with the mess.” It clicked then, that I may be staying due to the fear he might do something to himself. He said something similar in the past... my heart sank. I left for the bedroom without saying anything.
I’m too coward or stupid, I don’t know which. I just think he has me in ball and chains now because I’d feel so guilty if something were to happen to him. I could not forgive myself. I do know he is depressed and was well before I met him but I didn’t see the red flags as I was totally head over heels over him. He has been looking to lease or getting roommates since I asked that we remain apart but nothing much has happened. I have so many mixed feeling about leaving him because I can’t bear to think he’s in such a deep place. But every day, I feel like I’m drowning.
I know now that I am not responsible for a grown man. But how do I leave a person in need? Or is this something else? Is this manipulation?
Member
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Chicago
Posts: 5,450
Piper, you cannot save someone. There is plenty of help out there for him--professional help--if he chooses to seek it. Which, thusfar, he has not done. That should tell you everything you need to know. Besides, the kind of help he is intimating he needs is far beyond the scope of what a partner can provide.
If you really want out of this situation, you are going to have to stop looking for him to release you.
If you really want out of this situation, you are going to have to stop looking for him to release you.
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Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: uk
Posts: 2,428
Hi PiperDream
I relate to such a lot of what you share about how you feel and act.
What I have been doing is working on changing myself and my outlook on relationships. I work the Al-anon program. I am with an alcoholic too, my third!! I want to change so this will be my last!
We can't change them but we can change ourselves.
I relate to such a lot of what you share about how you feel and act.
What I have been doing is working on changing myself and my outlook on relationships. I work the Al-anon program. I am with an alcoholic too, my third!! I want to change so this will be my last!
We can't change them but we can change ourselves.
Member
Join Date: May 2019
Posts: 51
Piper dream.... you are not dumb. You have a heart....one so big he doesn’t realize just how much you do love. It’s very difficult to just let go of someone that you have so much time invested in. I too have been living with the same difficulty. So no... you are not stupid nor a coward. You are like me.. you aren’t a quitter. You can’t just walk away.. it’s harder than staying. I’ll pray for you as I feel we are similar in nature..
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Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 8,618
Piperdream. I will tell you something that I know for a fact.
Alcoholism, depression, OCD, ADD, other mental health issues, other addictions, doesn't matter.
With ANY challenge that anyone has there is simply NO excuse for poor treatment of others, none. You can be depressed and not rude, mean and abusive and manipulative. You can be an addict and not share your demons around. You can have OCD and not drag your friends and family in to it.
Point being, it is a choice by the person. No matter the issue, there is, again, no excuse for poor treatment of others. Can depressed people be hard to be around, for sure, doesn't mean they need to be purposefully hurtful. Do they isolate, some do, doesn't mean they need to disappear without contact for weeks.
His mentioning, well skirting around, the issue of suicide, I guess he needed to tell someone and he did. Is it manipulation or just sharing? Who knows. But the facts, he takes off for weeks and doesn't even contact you. Where has he been, what is he doing? Just going off the deep end on a bender or hanging out at a resort? Do you know?
If he has problems with depression he needs to seek professional help or deal with it. Yes, people do deal with their own mental health issues sometimes. Is that ideal? Maybe not, but it can be a choice. You can't help him with it anyway and you are not responsible for him.
You have carried him financially for years, which is very odd. Now that he has money he has freedom and is using it.
He sounds very aloof and cold, is that accurate?
Alcoholism, depression, OCD, ADD, other mental health issues, other addictions, doesn't matter.
With ANY challenge that anyone has there is simply NO excuse for poor treatment of others, none. You can be depressed and not rude, mean and abusive and manipulative. You can be an addict and not share your demons around. You can have OCD and not drag your friends and family in to it.
Point being, it is a choice by the person. No matter the issue, there is, again, no excuse for poor treatment of others. Can depressed people be hard to be around, for sure, doesn't mean they need to be purposefully hurtful. Do they isolate, some do, doesn't mean they need to disappear without contact for weeks.
His mentioning, well skirting around, the issue of suicide, I guess he needed to tell someone and he did. Is it manipulation or just sharing? Who knows. But the facts, he takes off for weeks and doesn't even contact you. Where has he been, what is he doing? Just going off the deep end on a bender or hanging out at a resort? Do you know?
If he has problems with depression he needs to seek professional help or deal with it. Yes, people do deal with their own mental health issues sometimes. Is that ideal? Maybe not, but it can be a choice. You can't help him with it anyway and you are not responsible for him.
You have carried him financially for years, which is very odd. Now that he has money he has freedom and is using it.
He sounds very aloof and cold, is that accurate?
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Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 319
^ The above trailmix just posted is true, and I’m wonder if a part of you knows that, that “higher self” part that gets p****d off on your behalf. Like, you know what’s really true, but because facing it and knowing what you’re going to go through when you face it can be so challenging and uncomfortable, that it’s easier to participate in that “magical thinking” type stuff, and part of you knows it’s magical thinking, so you get mad at yourself?
And by magical thinking, I mean when you have all of what you’ve experienced so far in front of you, and you know that nothing is really that different- that perhaps a bandaid has been slapped over a gaping, gushing, bloody infected wound, and you’re hoping it will heal but deep down you really know that hope is false, and what it really is magical thinking, because you *know* bandaids don’t heal infected, gushing bloody wounds..
I’ve definitely been there, and know that feeling, and when I’m angry with myself like that, sometimes it is because I let my thinking get derailed from reality, and my self preservation part is screeching at me internally to have some boundaries, because really, if you don’t do that for yourself, no one else will. I don’t know about you or how you are, if any of this sounds relatable, but for me, there’s always that inner most part of me that knows when I’m bs-ing myself, and that’s where that getting mad at myself part sometimes comes in, trying to step in and help.
And by magical thinking, I mean when you have all of what you’ve experienced so far in front of you, and you know that nothing is really that different- that perhaps a bandaid has been slapped over a gaping, gushing, bloody infected wound, and you’re hoping it will heal but deep down you really know that hope is false, and what it really is magical thinking, because you *know* bandaids don’t heal infected, gushing bloody wounds..
I’ve definitely been there, and know that feeling, and when I’m angry with myself like that, sometimes it is because I let my thinking get derailed from reality, and my self preservation part is screeching at me internally to have some boundaries, because really, if you don’t do that for yourself, no one else will. I don’t know about you or how you are, if any of this sounds relatable, but for me, there’s always that inner most part of me that knows when I’m bs-ing myself, and that’s where that getting mad at myself part sometimes comes in, trying to step in and help.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 6,262
When I finally extricated myself from a disastrous relationship with rabf I made a vow that anyone who disrespects or hurts me for ANY reason will be immediately evicted from my life. Hindsight, of course, is 20/20. I saw that my own low self-esteem coupled with denial and rationalization kept me a very unhappy prisoner. I was the author of my own misery and will never go there again.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 1,144
I'm in that round about myself. I can take one of four roads or I can continue to go around in circles hitting some potholes in the round about. The choice is really mine not my car's or my husband's. My husband will make his choices healthy or unhealthy and there is nothing I can do to make him come along.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 356
I think my counselor told me it takes most abused people an average of 8 times before they leave the abusive relationship. It is hard.
And you probably are worried about the what if’s if you do leave, what will happen to him, will he do anything to hurt himself etc.i think his mentioning the suicidé thing is more than likely manipulative in nature. He knows you are a caring person and he is taking advantage of your kindness.but what will happen to YOU if you don’t leave. I think that is the more important part that you need to worry about. Be selfish and think about yourself. He is a grown man and should be able to take care of himself. You cannot save him. If love could save our qualifiers than none of us would be here. Ultimately we end up going down with them. In another thread someone mentioned being happy social and outgoing. That all went by the wayside after living with an alcoholic and she is still trying to make her her way back out now that she is divorced. Alcohol not only changes the alcoholic but everyone around them (spouses and kids especially). And the alcoholic is very good and roping you back in each time you give any indication that you might be done. Not only alcoholics btw. I have a friend whose BF dumped her after 6 years, they have had a lot of ups and downs the last 3-4 years. She moved out and 2 months after she moved out they’re seeing each other again, because the sex is good, because he is being so nice and saying all the nice things. He is totally acting like an add it except for he isn’t one. But his behavior is the same. She is seeing it but she keeps getting sucked in. I just want to shake her but I know I can’t. We have talked about it a lot and she sees a counselor. And when there isn’t physical abuse it is even harder I think because you think “well he isn’t beating me so it isn’t as bad”. Emotional abuse and manipulation is just as bad, but there are not visible marks left so “it can’t be as bad a someone who is physically abusing another person. If I remember right you don have any kids together right? What is keeping you from breaking things off? I mean really? Is it because you worry about what will happen to him, you think that he will follow through with wanting to quit (wanting and actually seeking recovery are very different). What is in it for you? What are you getting out of it for you. Because marriage/being in a relationship needs to be a two way street and if one person is not getting their needs met there is a problem. You deserve to be happy and be treated with respect. And just because he travels a lot and you get periods of peace doesn’t mean you have to tolerate his behavior when he comes back. You say you basically have paid for most of your bills and you are financially independent. He has a job, he can find another place and maybe he will decide to get clean and maybe he will continue. Even if he stayed and tells you he is working a program, he is gone so much that he can drink all he wants during that time and then be on his best behavior when he is with you. But that can only last so long, he eventually would spiral out of control. You really want to live like that. If he decided she really wants to get clean then he can seek treatment. And if he is successful and works hard at recovery you can always re-evaluate but I would give it at least a year so that he could prove through actions that he has changed. How do you feel when he is gone? More at peace? Less stressed? Because I know that when things got really bad with my ex’ drinking I was always glad when he wasn’t at home, or would go to bed early. That was the only time I could relax.
And as far as why he feels so down.......one word: alcohol. Suspect that is the biggest cause for his depression. Not that he will likely believe that if you told him but I am fairly certain that is a huge reason. Not that everyone that quit drinking is no longer depressed (since not everyone that is depressed is an alcoholic ) but alcohol is a downer. My XRAH is sleeping better, happier at work (despite his job not having changed, he has just learned how to manage his stress and things that annoy him in a much healthier way and overall just feeling much better (well other than the fact I couldn’t get past all that had happened and we ended up getting divorced, he is still bitter about that) .
Think about what you need for you and take care of you. He can take care of himself and if he can’t than that is not your problem. Don’t be hard on your self with the “why do I let him come back”. It is very common and even though it is easy for us to say get the heck out, we also know that that is easier said than done. Just like the alcoholic has to want to quit for themselves, us Codie’s need to get ourselves to a point where we are ready to do something about our situation. If you’re not doing counseling I would highly suggest it. And if you are, you may just need more time to come to terms with it. Even though I told my counselor I felt like the marriage was not going to survive from the time I started seeing him when my ex went into rehab it still took me many weekly counseling sessions to be ok with the fact that I did not want to stay. That is was ok to feel that way even if my ex had gotten sober and was doing well, even though it would impact our kid a lot. Even though I would “ruin” our little family (my words not his, and obviously my ex did a bang up job of ruining our family because of his addiction) etc. Many of us stayed for too long with our addicts so most of us are guilty of letting the alcoholic back in or not being able to leave. Don’t feel guilty about wanting out. My counselor told me that even if my ex had not been an addict and I felt like I wanted out because I wasn’t happy it would be ok to want out. Sometimes people can fix their relationship through marriage counseling but there is no hope of that with an active addict.
And you probably are worried about the what if’s if you do leave, what will happen to him, will he do anything to hurt himself etc.i think his mentioning the suicidé thing is more than likely manipulative in nature. He knows you are a caring person and he is taking advantage of your kindness.but what will happen to YOU if you don’t leave. I think that is the more important part that you need to worry about. Be selfish and think about yourself. He is a grown man and should be able to take care of himself. You cannot save him. If love could save our qualifiers than none of us would be here. Ultimately we end up going down with them. In another thread someone mentioned being happy social and outgoing. That all went by the wayside after living with an alcoholic and she is still trying to make her her way back out now that she is divorced. Alcohol not only changes the alcoholic but everyone around them (spouses and kids especially). And the alcoholic is very good and roping you back in each time you give any indication that you might be done. Not only alcoholics btw. I have a friend whose BF dumped her after 6 years, they have had a lot of ups and downs the last 3-4 years. She moved out and 2 months after she moved out they’re seeing each other again, because the sex is good, because he is being so nice and saying all the nice things. He is totally acting like an add it except for he isn’t one. But his behavior is the same. She is seeing it but she keeps getting sucked in. I just want to shake her but I know I can’t. We have talked about it a lot and she sees a counselor. And when there isn’t physical abuse it is even harder I think because you think “well he isn’t beating me so it isn’t as bad”. Emotional abuse and manipulation is just as bad, but there are not visible marks left so “it can’t be as bad a someone who is physically abusing another person. If I remember right you don have any kids together right? What is keeping you from breaking things off? I mean really? Is it because you worry about what will happen to him, you think that he will follow through with wanting to quit (wanting and actually seeking recovery are very different). What is in it for you? What are you getting out of it for you. Because marriage/being in a relationship needs to be a two way street and if one person is not getting their needs met there is a problem. You deserve to be happy and be treated with respect. And just because he travels a lot and you get periods of peace doesn’t mean you have to tolerate his behavior when he comes back. You say you basically have paid for most of your bills and you are financially independent. He has a job, he can find another place and maybe he will decide to get clean and maybe he will continue. Even if he stayed and tells you he is working a program, he is gone so much that he can drink all he wants during that time and then be on his best behavior when he is with you. But that can only last so long, he eventually would spiral out of control. You really want to live like that. If he decided she really wants to get clean then he can seek treatment. And if he is successful and works hard at recovery you can always re-evaluate but I would give it at least a year so that he could prove through actions that he has changed. How do you feel when he is gone? More at peace? Less stressed? Because I know that when things got really bad with my ex’ drinking I was always glad when he wasn’t at home, or would go to bed early. That was the only time I could relax.
And as far as why he feels so down.......one word: alcohol. Suspect that is the biggest cause for his depression. Not that he will likely believe that if you told him but I am fairly certain that is a huge reason. Not that everyone that quit drinking is no longer depressed (since not everyone that is depressed is an alcoholic ) but alcohol is a downer. My XRAH is sleeping better, happier at work (despite his job not having changed, he has just learned how to manage his stress and things that annoy him in a much healthier way and overall just feeling much better (well other than the fact I couldn’t get past all that had happened and we ended up getting divorced, he is still bitter about that) .
Think about what you need for you and take care of you. He can take care of himself and if he can’t than that is not your problem. Don’t be hard on your self with the “why do I let him come back”. It is very common and even though it is easy for us to say get the heck out, we also know that that is easier said than done. Just like the alcoholic has to want to quit for themselves, us Codie’s need to get ourselves to a point where we are ready to do something about our situation. If you’re not doing counseling I would highly suggest it. And if you are, you may just need more time to come to terms with it. Even though I told my counselor I felt like the marriage was not going to survive from the time I started seeing him when my ex went into rehab it still took me many weekly counseling sessions to be ok with the fact that I did not want to stay. That is was ok to feel that way even if my ex had gotten sober and was doing well, even though it would impact our kid a lot. Even though I would “ruin” our little family (my words not his, and obviously my ex did a bang up job of ruining our family because of his addiction) etc. Many of us stayed for too long with our addicts so most of us are guilty of letting the alcoholic back in or not being able to leave. Don’t feel guilty about wanting out. My counselor told me that even if my ex had not been an addict and I felt like I wanted out because I wasn’t happy it would be ok to want out. Sometimes people can fix their relationship through marriage counseling but there is no hope of that with an active addict.
Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 13,560
I stayed with my XAH for years for fear he would do something to himself. It was the worst form of emotional abuse and manipulation I have ever experienced. Eventually through getting help myself I came to realize I am only responsible for one person, myself. That I cannot control him, his choices, or make him well. Only he can do that. And his choice to drag me down the rabbit hole with him nearly drove me to a nervous breakdown.
You deserve more. I hope you get the help you deserve to get out of this cycle.
Many hugs!
You deserve more. I hope you get the help you deserve to get out of this cycle.
Many hugs!
Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,103
He tells me he wants to change but that he doesn’t know why he feels so down and that he’d never “hurt” himself even though no one will really miss him. That he’d never do anything because he doesn’t want anyone to “clean up and deal with the mess.” It clicked then, that I may be staying due to the fear he might do something to himself.
Those words took all of the focus off of “he wants to change”, and put that right on the back burner out of site and out of mind so now you will only focus on him possibly hurting himself and heck doesn't have to or even attempt to make an effort to change. He's living his easy life just as he wishes over here. And there you are over there worried, living in fear waiting, watching and hoping to witness something he has no intention of doing.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 2,052
There are enough people in the world who will insult you and "should" on you. You are not dumb. You are human-- just like me.
Don't insult yourself. Don't "should" on yourself, don't should on others, and don't let others should on you.
I say this as somebody whose "go to" is to insult myself and should on myself. Both things have made my life much, much harder, and I can't even blame them on my alcoholics.
Don't insult yourself. Don't "should" on yourself, don't should on others, and don't let others should on you.
I say this as somebody whose "go to" is to insult myself and should on myself. Both things have made my life much, much harder, and I can't even blame them on my alcoholics.
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