Why does a recovering meth addict seem like a sociopath?
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Why does a recovering meth addict seem like a sociopath?
I’ve posted here before about my ex who is a meth addict. I’ve been doing pretty well with facing reality and moving forward with life. Though, I’m not perfect, to say the least. I had a weak moment and reached out a couple of weeks ago. After the chaos and intense hurt (I don’t think there’s a word to describe this feeling, really), over the last 3 years of having him in and out of my life - I saw he was finally on probation for 3 years and caved. I hoped that maybe he’d have something to say now that he was sober again. Some sort of remorse or just anything. He had sent me an email during his last relapse (I have blocked him in every other form of communication). His words were barely comprehensible. But, I gathered he was trying to tell me he loved me.. and that he knows how much I hate him. It was very sad seeing him barely able to spell a word, but I really felt no sympathy for him. But, after becoming sober, he had not one thing to say. Barely remembers speaking to me - and unconvincingly says that, “well yes, I do have remorse, I just don’t know how to convey it.” For a lack of a better way of explaining how he seems - after a month of sobriety, (though I know this isn’t long), he still seems to be in some sort of a zombie mode. He even seemed this way after his last full year of sobriety. He just doesn’t seem to have any sympathy, empathy, remorse or any other sort of emotion. He didn’t use to be like this at all.
I am searching to find peace on my own - I just struggle understanding that the man I once loved has turned into what feels like a sociopathic zombie. Even after being a year sober - he just seems gone. Counseling is helping me with the insane amount of damage he’s done to my soul - I think apart of me wishes to understand how this has happened and what is going on with this? I hope there’s no judgement here - as I have come leaps and bounds with moving forward. My aim is to just understand how someone could feel nothing about what he’s done to himself or others.
I am searching to find peace on my own - I just struggle understanding that the man I once loved has turned into what feels like a sociopathic zombie. Even after being a year sober - he just seems gone. Counseling is helping me with the insane amount of damage he’s done to my soul - I think apart of me wishes to understand how this has happened and what is going on with this? I hope there’s no judgement here - as I have come leaps and bounds with moving forward. My aim is to just understand how someone could feel nothing about what he’s done to himself or others.
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it's futile to look to those that HURT us to now HEAL us.
he is not required to have remorse or to attempt to fix how you feel. that may seem harsh, but it is what it is.
meth messes people up in a lot of ways - this is a small excerpt from a longer article about the lasting effects of meth use:
Dr. James A. Peck, a clinical psychologist who specializes in addiction, offers the following lesson in brain chemistry: “Crystal meth forces dopamine and norepinephrine to be blasted through the brain, so when you stop using meth, there’s a definite effect on your brain, which creates the anhedonia. The jury is still out as to whether it is permanent. We do have P.E.T. scan studies showing that for some users, it takes up to two years for the brain function to return to where it was prior to the meth use.” But Peck has seen cases where the damage has been permanent. “Part of this has to do with what these drugs are composed of,” he says. “Meth is cooked up from a bunch of toxic chemicals.”
https://www.thefix.com/content/going-sad
he is not required to have remorse or to attempt to fix how you feel. that may seem harsh, but it is what it is.
meth messes people up in a lot of ways - this is a small excerpt from a longer article about the lasting effects of meth use:
Dr. James A. Peck, a clinical psychologist who specializes in addiction, offers the following lesson in brain chemistry: “Crystal meth forces dopamine and norepinephrine to be blasted through the brain, so when you stop using meth, there’s a definite effect on your brain, which creates the anhedonia. The jury is still out as to whether it is permanent. We do have P.E.T. scan studies showing that for some users, it takes up to two years for the brain function to return to where it was prior to the meth use.” But Peck has seen cases where the damage has been permanent. “Part of this has to do with what these drugs are composed of,” he says. “Meth is cooked up from a bunch of toxic chemicals.”
https://www.thefix.com/content/going-sad
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[QUOTE=AnvilheadII;7164031]it's futile to look to those that HURT us to now HEAL us.
he is not required to have remorse or to attempt to fix how you feel. that may seem harsh, but it is what it is.
meth messes people up in a lot of ways - this is a small excerpt from a longer article about the lasting effects of meth use:
Dr. James A. Peck, a clinical psychologist who specializes in addiction, offers the following lesson in brain chemistry: “Crystal meth forces dopamine and norepinephrine to be blasted through the brain, so when you stop using meth, there’s a definite effect on your brain, which creates the anhedonia. The jury is still out as to whether it is permanent. We do have P.E.T. scan studies showing that for some users, it takes up to two years for the brain function to return to where it was prior to the meth use.” But Peck has seen cases where the damage has been permanent. “Part of this has to do with what these drugs are composed of,” he says. “Meth is cooked up from a bunch of toxic chemicals.”
I agree with you, and thank you for the article. I am only human - when someone has done so much harm to you, I can’t lie and say that a amends of sorts wouldn’t help my heart heal faster. But, I am seeing now that I don’t think this will ever happen. I know I am responsible for my feelings and that’s why I’m working through things in counseling. I was hoping to at least get some insight as to why he’s like this, as I do think this will help heal by understanding. The article definitely helps - thank you for your advice!
he is not required to have remorse or to attempt to fix how you feel. that may seem harsh, but it is what it is.
meth messes people up in a lot of ways - this is a small excerpt from a longer article about the lasting effects of meth use:
Dr. James A. Peck, a clinical psychologist who specializes in addiction, offers the following lesson in brain chemistry: “Crystal meth forces dopamine and norepinephrine to be blasted through the brain, so when you stop using meth, there’s a definite effect on your brain, which creates the anhedonia. The jury is still out as to whether it is permanent. We do have P.E.T. scan studies showing that for some users, it takes up to two years for the brain function to return to where it was prior to the meth use.” But Peck has seen cases where the damage has been permanent. “Part of this has to do with what these drugs are composed of,” he says. “Meth is cooked up from a bunch of toxic chemicals.”
I agree with you, and thank you for the article. I am only human - when someone has done so much harm to you, I can’t lie and say that a amends of sorts wouldn’t help my heart heal faster. But, I am seeing now that I don’t think this will ever happen. I know I am responsible for my feelings and that’s why I’m working through things in counseling. I was hoping to at least get some insight as to why he’s like this, as I do think this will help heal by understanding. The article definitely helps - thank you for your advice!
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well he did say: “well yes, I do have remorse, I just don’t know how to convey it.”
which is an admission, of sorts. if you read around SR you will see many stories of partners who have been wronged or hurt and trying to get an amends out of the addict. those that don't are frustrated and those that do often claim it wasn't enough.
if we want closure, we must take the actions to close the door. which you are doing!!! keep it up. might be time to go full No Contact with the ex. not really a whole lot of reasons to keep that channel open.
which is an admission, of sorts. if you read around SR you will see many stories of partners who have been wronged or hurt and trying to get an amends out of the addict. those that don't are frustrated and those that do often claim it wasn't enough.
if we want closure, we must take the actions to close the door. which you are doing!!! keep it up. might be time to go full No Contact with the ex. not really a whole lot of reasons to keep that channel open.
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Originally Posted by AnvilheadII 
well he did say: “well yes, I do have remorse, I just don’t know how to convey it.”
which is an admission, of sorts. if you read around SR you will see many stories of partners who have been wronged or hurt and trying to get an amends out of the addict. those that don't are frustrated and those that do often claim it wasn't enough.
if we want closure, we must take the actions to close the door. which you are doing!!! keep it up. might be time to go full No Contact with the ex. not really a whole lot of reasons to keep that channel open.
which is an admission, of sorts. if you read around SR you will see many stories of partners who have been wronged or hurt and trying to get an amends out of the addict. those that don't are frustrated and those that do often claim it wasn't enough.
if we want closure, we must take the actions to close the door. which you are doing!!! keep it up. might be time to go full No Contact with the ex. not really a whole lot of reasons to keep that channel open.
The door is definitely closed. I slipped and have definitely learned my lesson. I guess it took 3 years to find out that every contact hurts and takes me back several steps. That the human being he used to be just isn’t there anymore. That, more likely than not, he won’t ever come back. I’ve struggled between feeling utter despair to help him, to feeling traumatized, to being so angry I thought it might kill me. I still am grappling to process how I feel since he’s been gone, but I do know I feel a since of peace not having him in my present life. Not worrying about if he’s dead, if he’s trying to intentionally hurt me, deciphering his words and weeding out the lies from the truth. It is terribly sad, the damage he’s done to his brain - it is tragic that he may live the rest of his life either using or sustaining and never feeling any pleasure again if he chooses the later. All because during one drug deal, they were out of his drug of choice, cocaine and said, “why not, sure, I’ll try meth.” But, I’m learning I am not responsible for his actions. In turn, I’m trying to learn that he isn’t responsible for my feelings. This is where I get stuck some days. Because, in my eyes, if you love someone, even just care for them, when you cause them physical, mental or spiritual pain, you make things right - even if just out of respect for the other person. But, I’m learning that addicts are quite different from others. I’m trying to work through this stickiness.
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When a person actually dies, we have rituals like funerals to help us grieve. When we come to realize someone we love has "died" but his/her body is still walking around doing strange things - it is shocking, confusing and unbearably sad. I think maybe this is why some zombie movies are so compelling.
My addict was addicted to meth. And every time she relapsed, she became full blown psychotic. There is no making sense of a psychotic episode. It is pointless to try to separate truth from lies, because in psychosis, the person is not inhabiting reality anymore. So, your addict may be having this type of episode. My addict relapsed several times in the past 15 years, and each time her recovery did not take her back to the original state. She was committed last year and now lives in a Chemical Dependency/Mental Illness supportive living facility at 37 years old.
What has helped me is to first accept fully "what is". My addict has damaged him/herself possibly irreparably. In our society, adults are free and I have no power to control another adult. And, I cannot control the consequences that my addict's higher power uses to get their attention - nor should I.
Usually that brings up for me two things - sadness (which I take time to grieve properly - by journaling, therapy, whatever) and the need to forgive. I read somewhere that people forgive when they need to heal, not for the other person. And the other person's apology is not needed for one to forgive - only the desire to be free and heal.
I usually find that I have resentments toward the addict - and oddly - myself. So forgiving myself for how I enabled and forgiving them for making the mistakes.
And third, turning it all over to my Higher Power. Probably this last bit is the hardest, but also the most essential.
So to answer you question directly - I don't know if I'd label it "sociopath" (I'm not a psychologist), but meth use definitely causes behavior that is so way outside of normal that it is dangerous.
Wishing you peace as you work toward a better life!
My addict was addicted to meth. And every time she relapsed, she became full blown psychotic. There is no making sense of a psychotic episode. It is pointless to try to separate truth from lies, because in psychosis, the person is not inhabiting reality anymore. So, your addict may be having this type of episode. My addict relapsed several times in the past 15 years, and each time her recovery did not take her back to the original state. She was committed last year and now lives in a Chemical Dependency/Mental Illness supportive living facility at 37 years old.
What has helped me is to first accept fully "what is". My addict has damaged him/herself possibly irreparably. In our society, adults are free and I have no power to control another adult. And, I cannot control the consequences that my addict's higher power uses to get their attention - nor should I.
Usually that brings up for me two things - sadness (which I take time to grieve properly - by journaling, therapy, whatever) and the need to forgive. I read somewhere that people forgive when they need to heal, not for the other person. And the other person's apology is not needed for one to forgive - only the desire to be free and heal.
I usually find that I have resentments toward the addict - and oddly - myself. So forgiving myself for how I enabled and forgiving them for making the mistakes.
And third, turning it all over to my Higher Power. Probably this last bit is the hardest, but also the most essential.
So to answer you question directly - I don't know if I'd label it "sociopath" (I'm not a psychologist), but meth use definitely causes behavior that is so way outside of normal that it is dangerous.
Wishing you peace as you work toward a better life!
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Zombie is a good word for it. Psychotic is another. Meth is terrible stuff. All addictions are terrible, but there seems to be a special place in hell for meth. I was on the other side of addiction, and in rehab I witnessed several people come in to detox during a meth psychosis. They were barely human.
Mourn the passing like he really has died. Sit with the sadness and hurt. Because to you, he has. This may sound paradoxical, but also realize the hell he's living in and try to have compassion. Not for him, but for you. Compassion doesn't mean contact, or helping, or anything like that, you need to protect yourself. But if you acknowledge it, I think you'll find it far easier to let go, resentments and anger just hold you into a toxic relationship.
12 Step recovery has amend making as a step. Resentment and anger don't work for the recovering addict either. The two step dance is vicious. Stop dancing. When the damage that's been done is so great as it seems to be in this case, is there really any level or remorse that will make it better?
We can only change our own attitudes and behavior. I hope you can move on and end your nightmare.
Mourn the passing like he really has died. Sit with the sadness and hurt. Because to you, he has. This may sound paradoxical, but also realize the hell he's living in and try to have compassion. Not for him, but for you. Compassion doesn't mean contact, or helping, or anything like that, you need to protect yourself. But if you acknowledge it, I think you'll find it far easier to let go, resentments and anger just hold you into a toxic relationship.
12 Step recovery has amend making as a step. Resentment and anger don't work for the recovering addict either. The two step dance is vicious. Stop dancing. When the damage that's been done is so great as it seems to be in this case, is there really any level or remorse that will make it better?
We can only change our own attitudes and behavior. I hope you can move on and end your nightmare.
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Troubledone, first and foremost, I want to say I’m so very sorry for what you’re going through. My heart goes out to you. I hope you are progressing on your journey to healing.
Forgiveness with him has always been a tough process for me. In theory, I’m on board with the whole idea of forgiveness, how holding anger and resentment is like drinking the poison and hoping the other person dies, but I haven’t quite gotten there yet. I feel I almost don’t know how to forgive at this point. The amount of betrayal, lies, gaslighting, emotional abuse - not to mention the mental instability all of this treatment has made me feel. I haven’t gotten there yet and it’s possibly because we haven’t had more than a couple of months of space from talking. Maybe this will come with time - God I hope. I pray for indifference everyday.
I have trouble forgiving myself for saying such nasty things due to this treatment. I have trouble forgiving myself for allowing this kind of treatment from anyone for as long as I did. I guess I’m just having trouble forgiving period.
Thank you for your helpful advice and kind words. They are much appreciated valued. I hope you heal from your wounds.
Mindfulman - I really do have a hard time finding compassion. I try to find compassion and every time I do, he does or says something so hurtful. I’ve always considered myself to be one of THE most compassionate, forgiving person walking this earth, but I just can’t find either right now. I want to be there so badly, I’m just not yet. I am trying to mourn, but it’s tough when my head keeps telling me, but he IS alive!
But, I know you’re absolutely right, that mourning, forgiving and letting go is the key to healing.
I think when it comes to him having remorse - I have come to realize that it won’t help heal the past, that I will still have to continue to sort out and work through the pain, but it definitely would help take away some of the resentment.
Honestly, I just feel I’m in a sticky/ tricky place. I know where I need to be, but I’m just not there yet.
In fact, I just find myself beating up on myself for having not fully shut the door. We still have had some words here and there. And truly, I thought I was in a better place, but after a few conversations with him, I’m an emotional mess. Regretting the mean things I said, wondering why I can’t forgive and be supportive, why do I care, why am I letting this get to me, why do I miss him, why do I hate and love him so much?
Just a mess. I don’t know how to react properly to addiction. It’s a confusing situation. But I do know, I need to stay away from him. I’m just too angry, to vulnerable and miss who he used to be too much.
But, I did feel I walked away understanding a little better. Andohenia seems to be what’s he’s going through - he did explain the remorse is there he just can’t identify feelings at the moment. That did feel nice to understand finally.
I’m sorry for the rambling, I just had to let all of this out.
Thank you all for your words and taking the time to respond.
Forgiveness with him has always been a tough process for me. In theory, I’m on board with the whole idea of forgiveness, how holding anger and resentment is like drinking the poison and hoping the other person dies, but I haven’t quite gotten there yet. I feel I almost don’t know how to forgive at this point. The amount of betrayal, lies, gaslighting, emotional abuse - not to mention the mental instability all of this treatment has made me feel. I haven’t gotten there yet and it’s possibly because we haven’t had more than a couple of months of space from talking. Maybe this will come with time - God I hope. I pray for indifference everyday.
I have trouble forgiving myself for saying such nasty things due to this treatment. I have trouble forgiving myself for allowing this kind of treatment from anyone for as long as I did. I guess I’m just having trouble forgiving period.
Thank you for your helpful advice and kind words. They are much appreciated valued. I hope you heal from your wounds.
Mindfulman - I really do have a hard time finding compassion. I try to find compassion and every time I do, he does or says something so hurtful. I’ve always considered myself to be one of THE most compassionate, forgiving person walking this earth, but I just can’t find either right now. I want to be there so badly, I’m just not yet. I am trying to mourn, but it’s tough when my head keeps telling me, but he IS alive!
But, I know you’re absolutely right, that mourning, forgiving and letting go is the key to healing.
I think when it comes to him having remorse - I have come to realize that it won’t help heal the past, that I will still have to continue to sort out and work through the pain, but it definitely would help take away some of the resentment.
Honestly, I just feel I’m in a sticky/ tricky place. I know where I need to be, but I’m just not there yet.
In fact, I just find myself beating up on myself for having not fully shut the door. We still have had some words here and there. And truly, I thought I was in a better place, but after a few conversations with him, I’m an emotional mess. Regretting the mean things I said, wondering why I can’t forgive and be supportive, why do I care, why am I letting this get to me, why do I miss him, why do I hate and love him so much?
Just a mess. I don’t know how to react properly to addiction. It’s a confusing situation. But I do know, I need to stay away from him. I’m just too angry, to vulnerable and miss who he used to be too much.
But, I did feel I walked away understanding a little better. Andohenia seems to be what’s he’s going through - he did explain the remorse is there he just can’t identify feelings at the moment. That did feel nice to understand finally.
I’m sorry for the rambling, I just had to let all of this out.
Thank you all for your words and taking the time to respond.
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Originally Posted by NWDad
Perhaps, stop looking backward. You're not going that way.
You're absolutely right - I’m trying to keep looking forward - I just struggle at times.. but I’m trying!
Thank you for your input.
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I’ve always considered myself to be one of THE most compassionate, forgiving person walking this earth, but I just can’t find either right now.
addiction is the great equalizer, eh? none of us are THE most anything....it's not a contest, and there is no prize.
addiction is the great equalizer, eh? none of us are THE most anything....it's not a contest, and there is no prize.
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Originally Posted by AnvilheadII
I’ve always considered myself to be one of THE most compassionate, forgiving person walking this earth, but I just can’t find either right now.
addiction is the great equalizer, eh? none of us are THE most anything....it's not a contest, and there is no prize.
addiction is the great equalizer, eh? none of us are THE most anything....it's not a contest, and there is no prize.
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Originally Posted by AnvilheadII
as was i.........
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We hear you Kennedy. Compassion isn't easy. The Dalai Lama said the hardest thing he had to do was practice compassion towards the Chinese government that destroyed his country, banned religion, and sent him into exile.
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I think with any drug things change a lot for the addict. Their priority of the day is not the next hit/high so right off the bat they're in strange territory. This is probably one reason many want to stay high along with not having a drug crutch to deal with all the normal emotions, discomfort, pressures even physical pain many sober experience without a hitch on a daily basis. Short version they don't have that drug crutch so it may take time for them to proceed through life on their own.
If they did it a really long time or started as a teen then as an adult they truely are in strange territory with little sober life to refer to.
If they did it a really long time or started as a teen then as an adult they truely are in strange territory with little sober life to refer to.
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There came a point in time during the relationship with my addict where her & I were fighting often. Sometime it was worse than others. It got highly charged & emotional. Bad things were said by both of us.
I started to really think about that is she what she is & has been that way for a very long time. I wanted her to change. I wanted a different better life for her. She didn't want to change. In my ignorance I was forcing the issue. She didn't have a problem I had the problem.
Over the years, I did a lot for her. Possibly a shocking amount. Towards the end I knew I wasn't helping her at all. I knew I was adding a lot of stress to her life. I knew in part I needed to let go of her because she didn't want what I wanted.
She is what she is & has been that way for many years. I had to be fair to her - let go of her - let her live her life how she chooses - I have no right to impose my choices on her.
This in part is why I let go of her.
I started to really think about that is she what she is & has been that way for a very long time. I wanted her to change. I wanted a different better life for her. She didn't want to change. In my ignorance I was forcing the issue. She didn't have a problem I had the problem.
Over the years, I did a lot for her. Possibly a shocking amount. Towards the end I knew I wasn't helping her at all. I knew I was adding a lot of stress to her life. I knew in part I needed to let go of her because she didn't want what I wanted.
She is what she is & has been that way for many years. I had to be fair to her - let go of her - let her live her life how she chooses - I have no right to impose my choices on her.
This in part is why I let go of her.
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over on the other F&F forum there is a current thread about Codependency
https://www.soberrecovery.com/forums...ependency.html (Codependency is...................?)
a really interesting growing list of traits that we draw from our own experiences. one of those posts is related to what i posted earlier:
And you care more about your public image as a nice person rather than whether this is healthy.
https://www.soberrecovery.com/forums...ependency.html (Codependency is...................?)
a really interesting growing list of traits that we draw from our own experiences. one of those posts is related to what i posted earlier:
And you care more about your public image as a nice person rather than whether this is healthy.
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