Ugly-souled journalist shrugs off male writer who suffers from wife's alcoholism
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Ugly-souled journalist shrugs off male writer who suffers from wife's alcoholism
This relationship counselor for Sunday Independence has a mind-boggling reply to husband who suffers from his wife's drinking.
The husband writes in: "She has turned to drinking wine more often than just casually.
Myself and the wife have two children and we are married 10 years. She has turned to drinking wine more often than just casually and her drinking is wrecking our marriage and our friendships. I have exhausted lots of avenues and feel I have no option now but to give her an ultimatum. I cannot come home to this anymore - it is too hard and I can't cope. I'm about to retire after 25 years of service and I don't think I can live with this anymore. What should I do?"
Mary O'Conor replies: "Very worryingly, this is one of a number of letters I have had from husbands who are concerned with their wives' drinking. Some of the men have complained that not alone has it affected them as a family, but it is also having financial repercussions that they cannot cope with. As a nation we are drinking far more wine than previous generations, and health professionals are constantly warning us about the dangers of over-indulgence; and the suggested limit is up to 11 standards drinks a week for women.
However, I have to say that there is nothing better than sitting around a table with friends and sharing a few bottles of wine..."
I nearly choked on my non-alcoholic drink when I read this . PARDON, WHAT? There are tons of better things than that. (Trust me. I'm sober since five years.) She didn't stop one moment to think about whether THIS is the right message she wants to send out to a tormented husband. She just goes on:
"Or indeed, sharing a bottle with a loved one can be so relaxing and a lovely experience particularly at the end of a busy week. Unfortunately this does not seem to be the case with you and you are obviously very concerned about your wife's drinking."
The author presents silly questions about wife's unhappiness, and does she have addictive personality and finds it difficult to stop once she starts. Addictive personality?? Newsflash: Alcohol IS very addictive. And to further add to the insult, she writes:
"I am not in favour of your issuing an ultimatum, no matter what it is, as this will only serve to make your wife feel very antagonistic towards you and will most likely not address the drinking."
Why is this about HER, and not HIM. Isn't it himself that he should primarily be thinking about? I was in a relationship with an alcoholic spouse for years and felt very bad, precisely because I cared much what my spouse thought.
Article:
independent dot ie / style / sex-relationships / dear-mary-my-wifes-winedrinking-is-wrecking-our-marriage-35021877 dot html
The husband writes in: "She has turned to drinking wine more often than just casually.
Myself and the wife have two children and we are married 10 years. She has turned to drinking wine more often than just casually and her drinking is wrecking our marriage and our friendships. I have exhausted lots of avenues and feel I have no option now but to give her an ultimatum. I cannot come home to this anymore - it is too hard and I can't cope. I'm about to retire after 25 years of service and I don't think I can live with this anymore. What should I do?"
Mary O'Conor replies: "Very worryingly, this is one of a number of letters I have had from husbands who are concerned with their wives' drinking. Some of the men have complained that not alone has it affected them as a family, but it is also having financial repercussions that they cannot cope with. As a nation we are drinking far more wine than previous generations, and health professionals are constantly warning us about the dangers of over-indulgence; and the suggested limit is up to 11 standards drinks a week for women.
However, I have to say that there is nothing better than sitting around a table with friends and sharing a few bottles of wine..."
I nearly choked on my non-alcoholic drink when I read this . PARDON, WHAT? There are tons of better things than that. (Trust me. I'm sober since five years.) She didn't stop one moment to think about whether THIS is the right message she wants to send out to a tormented husband. She just goes on:
"Or indeed, sharing a bottle with a loved one can be so relaxing and a lovely experience particularly at the end of a busy week. Unfortunately this does not seem to be the case with you and you are obviously very concerned about your wife's drinking."
The author presents silly questions about wife's unhappiness, and does she have addictive personality and finds it difficult to stop once she starts. Addictive personality?? Newsflash: Alcohol IS very addictive. And to further add to the insult, she writes:
"I am not in favour of your issuing an ultimatum, no matter what it is, as this will only serve to make your wife feel very antagonistic towards you and will most likely not address the drinking."
Why is this about HER, and not HIM. Isn't it himself that he should primarily be thinking about? I was in a relationship with an alcoholic spouse for years and felt very bad, precisely because I cared much what my spouse thought.
Article:
independent dot ie / style / sex-relationships / dear-mary-my-wifes-winedrinking-is-wrecking-our-marriage-35021877 dot html
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Ugh. Yep this "relationship counselor" seems pretty badly informed about alcoholism. Also, I tend to think that people defend their own gender so I wonder if it was a woman writing in about her husband's alcoholism perhaps "Mary O'conner" would be less tolerant of the alcoholic.
There is so much information available now and so much of it is misinformation or misleading information or just bad information. It is really hard to sieve out what is good from what is bad.
There is so much information available now and so much of it is misinformation or misleading information or just bad information. It is really hard to sieve out what is good from what is bad.
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Welcome to SR JTLor 
It seems to be a thing these days that opinion pieces, and the like, seem deliberately controversial to get people to click/buy/read them.
The Independent is usually pretty good tho - I'm disappointed by this, even tho the article itself is from 2016....
D
It seems to be a thing these days that opinion pieces, and the like, seem deliberately controversial to get people to click/buy/read them.
The Independent is usually pretty good tho - I'm disappointed by this, even tho the article itself is from 2016....
D
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Not sure exactly what you're so upset about with the columnists reply. First, she acknowledges that people are drinking too much and she's had more than one letter from people about it. So it's not like she's denying it happens. She says she likes sharing a bottle of wine with friends. That is simply her personal opinion. Nothing more. She's entitled to it. As for the "silly questions" you mock, they are actually very relevant to the whole issue. Does she have an addictive personality? Does she find it hard to stop drinking when she starts? Etc. She's simply asking for more information, Sounds pretty reasonable, really. As for your statement that alcohol is very addictive, that simply isn't true. Most of the world can use alcohol in moderation just fine. But for some people it becomes a problem. It's not the alcohol that's the issue. It's the misuse of it. One last thing, the author was dead on about the ultimatums. They don't work. That's why 90% of the people who post their ESH on this site don't recommend them.
Could this columnist have handled her response better? Probably. But to call her "ugly souled" is just flat out overboard, IMHO.
Could this columnist have handled her response better? Probably. But to call her "ugly souled" is just flat out overboard, IMHO.
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Some counselors are promarriage and don't advocate divorce under most circumstances. After all alcoholism is a disease, would you tell someone to divorce there wife or give then an altomatom if she had cancer.
And I know it's not that simple..
But I'm going to answer my own question, I might if they refuse to get treatment for the cancer when she could be helped.
And I know it's not that simple..
But I'm going to answer my own question, I might if they refuse to get treatment for the cancer when she could be helped.
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Originally Posted by BlownOne 
She says she likes sharing a bottle of wine with friends.
Originally Posted by BlownOne
That is simply her personal opinion. Nothing more. She's entitled to it.
Originally Posted by BlownOne
One last thing, the author was dead on about the ultimatums. They don't work. That's why 90% of the people who post their ESH on this site don't recommend them.
Could this columnist have handled her response better? Probably. But to call her "ugly souled" is just flat out overboard, IMHO.
Could this columnist have handled her response better? Probably. But to call her "ugly souled" is just flat out overboard, IMHO.
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Originally Posted by JTLor3
This relationship counselor for Sunday Independence has a mind-boggling reply to husband who suffers from his wife's drinking.
The husband writes in: "She has turned to drinking wine more often than just casually.
Myself and the wife have two children and we are married 10 years. She has turned to drinking wine more often than just casually and her drinking is wrecking our marriage and our friendships. I have exhausted lots of avenues and feel I have no option now but to give her an ultimatum. I cannot come home to this anymore - it is too hard and I can't cope. I'm about to retire after 25 years of service and I don't think I can live with this anymore. What should I do?"
Mary O'Conor replies: "Very worryingly, this is one of a number of letters I have had from husbands who are concerned with their wives' drinking. Some of the men have complained that not alone has it affected them as a family, but it is also having financial repercussions that they cannot cope with. As a nation we are drinking far more wine than previous generations, and health professionals are constantly warning us about the dangers of over-indulgence; and the suggested limit is up to 11 standards drinks a week for women.
However, I have to say that there is nothing better than sitting around a table with friends and sharing a few bottles of wine..."
I nearly choked on my non-alcoholic drink when I read this . PARDON, WHAT? There are tons of better things than that. (Trust me. I'm sober since five years.) She didn't stop one moment to think about whether THIS is the right message she wants to send out to a tormented husband. She just goes on:
"Or indeed, sharing a bottle with a loved one can be so relaxing and a lovely experience particularly at the end of a busy week. Unfortunately this does not seem to be the case with you and you are obviously very concerned about your wife's drinking."
The author presents silly questions about wife's unhappiness, and does she have addictive personality and finds it difficult to stop once she starts. Addictive personality?? Newsflash: Alcohol IS very addictive. And to further add to the insult, she writes:
"I am not in favour of your issuing an ultimatum, no matter what it is, as this will only serve to make your wife feel very antagonistic towards you and will most likely not address the drinking."
Why is this about HER, and not HIM. Isn't it himself that he should primarily be thinking about? I was in a relationship with an alcoholic spouse for years and felt very bad, precisely because I cared much what my spouse thought.
Article:
independent dot ie / style / sex-relationships / dear-mary-my-wifes-winedrinking-is-wrecking-our-marriage-35021877 dot html
The husband writes in: "She has turned to drinking wine more often than just casually.
Myself and the wife have two children and we are married 10 years. She has turned to drinking wine more often than just casually and her drinking is wrecking our marriage and our friendships. I have exhausted lots of avenues and feel I have no option now but to give her an ultimatum. I cannot come home to this anymore - it is too hard and I can't cope. I'm about to retire after 25 years of service and I don't think I can live with this anymore. What should I do?"
Mary O'Conor replies: "Very worryingly, this is one of a number of letters I have had from husbands who are concerned with their wives' drinking. Some of the men have complained that not alone has it affected them as a family, but it is also having financial repercussions that they cannot cope with. As a nation we are drinking far more wine than previous generations, and health professionals are constantly warning us about the dangers of over-indulgence; and the suggested limit is up to 11 standards drinks a week for women.
However, I have to say that there is nothing better than sitting around a table with friends and sharing a few bottles of wine..."
I nearly choked on my non-alcoholic drink when I read this . PARDON, WHAT? There are tons of better things than that. (Trust me. I'm sober since five years.) She didn't stop one moment to think about whether THIS is the right message she wants to send out to a tormented husband. She just goes on:
"Or indeed, sharing a bottle with a loved one can be so relaxing and a lovely experience particularly at the end of a busy week. Unfortunately this does not seem to be the case with you and you are obviously very concerned about your wife's drinking."
The author presents silly questions about wife's unhappiness, and does she have addictive personality and finds it difficult to stop once she starts. Addictive personality?? Newsflash: Alcohol IS very addictive. And to further add to the insult, she writes:
"I am not in favour of your issuing an ultimatum, no matter what it is, as this will only serve to make your wife feel very antagonistic towards you and will most likely not address the drinking."
Why is this about HER, and not HIM. Isn't it himself that he should primarily be thinking about? I was in a relationship with an alcoholic spouse for years and felt very bad, precisely because I cared much what my spouse thought.
Article:
independent dot ie / style / sex-relationships / dear-mary-my-wifes-winedrinking-is-wrecking-our-marriage-35021877 dot html
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With that statement she is either validating her drinking/wine consumption or thinks she's playing to a particular audience/reader.
When people try to explain why they want to drink they are basically selling their behavior to you. They are seeking validation. I've had people in a very stern investigative manner ask things 'Why aren't you having a drink or why don't you drink?' I even gotten how can you drink just one drink(Yes, Sometimes I have A drink on some special occasions and absolutely must be followed by a meal) But they look at me funny because I can stop after or nurse one drink.
If alcohol or any issue is a problem I definitely wouldn't be trying to rationalize it.
When people try to explain why they want to drink they are basically selling their behavior to you. They are seeking validation. I've had people in a very stern investigative manner ask things 'Why aren't you having a drink or why don't you drink?' I even gotten how can you drink just one drink(Yes, Sometimes I have A drink on some special occasions and absolutely must be followed by a meal) But they look at me funny because I can stop after or nurse one drink.
If alcohol or any issue is a problem I definitely wouldn't be trying to rationalize it.
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Entitled or not, she's a professional who is supposed to give advice to troubled couples. If I exchange thoughts with someone, who's spouse might be an alcoholic, I should choose my words a little differently than saying "there's nothing better than sharing a bottle of wine with friends". Yet who is the professional here? For all we know, the spouse might be lying in her own **** every day.
She also goes on to say that she acknowledges the man is concerned about his wife's drinking. how far down the rabbit hole she has slipped the writer does not reveal, so we simply don't know. My point in this whole thing, is that you refer to the author as "ugly souled". Now whether or not this particular counselor has any training in addiction at all isn't made known to us. I've known physicians who are pretty clueless about it as well. You seem to take serious umbrage with her reply, when for someone who may not know much about addiction, it seems reasonable to me (minus the injection of her own opinion). Personally, as a recovered alcoholic, I cut her the same slack as I would anyone else who may not have a grip on the disease.
She also goes on to say that she acknowledges the man is concerned about his wife's drinking. how far down the rabbit hole she has slipped the writer does not reveal, so we simply don't know. My point in this whole thing, is that you refer to the author as "ugly souled". Now whether or not this particular counselor has any training in addiction at all isn't made known to us. I've known physicians who are pretty clueless about it as well. You seem to take serious umbrage with her reply, when for someone who may not know much about addiction, it seems reasonable to me (minus the injection of her own opinion). Personally, as a recovered alcoholic, I cut her the same slack as I would anyone else who may not have a grip on the disease.
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This made me crack up:
Codie - 11 drinks a week for women?? That seems excessive.
As someone who easily had 11+ in a day by the end...
And, the one thing I completely agree with here is that an ultimatum is simply not going to work. It has to be the person who wants to quit, and only their decision. I'm talking about permanent sobriety- not, I went to rehab and was sober 3 mo stuff.
Also....opinion pieces are just that. The reality is that many many professionals (including MDs) simply do not know about addiction, for various reasons.
And - I hope the man and his wife are (still) seeking help more than writing into a column. Wonder where they are a few years since that piece.
Codie - 11 drinks a week for women?? That seems excessive.
As someone who easily had 11+ in a day by the end...
And, the one thing I completely agree with here is that an ultimatum is simply not going to work. It has to be the person who wants to quit, and only their decision. I'm talking about permanent sobriety- not, I went to rehab and was sober 3 mo stuff.
Also....opinion pieces are just that. The reality is that many many professionals (including MDs) simply do not know about addiction, for various reasons.
And - I hope the man and his wife are (still) seeking help more than writing into a column. Wonder where they are a few years since that piece.
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You can also "take what you like and leave the rest" from what she had to say. That's what I found helpful as I too found some of her suggestions not so effective for a substance abuse scenario. Not all counselors are very well versed of the disease.
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