Update, not the greatest one
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Join Date: Jun 2017
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Update, not the greatest one
Hi everyone, I am back once again, after AH returned two weeks ago from 30 days inpatient rehab. During rehab, there was just one meeting with AH, me, and his therapist. The therapist asked him what was his biggest obstacle to staying sober once he goes home, and he said it was "our relationship, how he and I communicate". It felt like blaming at the time, and since this facility allowed phone communication for patients, I admitted I felt upset to him, later that night. He is also very upset that "I only called him twice while he was in rehab". I thought I was supposed to give him space to work on him. I went through a course 15 years ago, where you didn't talk to the outside world for a week, so that's part of where I got that. I didn't want him to feel I was controlling his recovery. And frankly, it's simply not true that I only called twice--he just says that only two of the calls were "just to see how he was doing"--which I still don't think is accurate.
Fast forward to Thursday night, two nights ago. I went out of town, and upon returning (my father was just put on hospice), I felt AH had been drinking. My BAC wasn't working, but my gut was. We had a fight. This morning, he admitted he'd been drinking, and he said he felt unsupported by me, that I never accept his feelings, and that his therapist did not recommend him coming back home. Well, I had asked his therapist about sober living in that meeting, and asked why they didn't recommend it, and she said he didn't need it. I guess after I became upset w/what he said about our communication, he was angry at that, and from there his therapist changed her tune about him coming home, which he obviously ignored. Again, my own therapist warned he would say anything to get back home with DS but that he needed to do his work on his own for at least a year.
So it feels like today I received a lot of blame for not supporting AH in getting sober. For never "accepting his feelings". I just didn't know how to help him, and I've been doing loving detachment. It's hard to smile around him, and be positive, with an ill parent, and watching him have to jump right back into work and temptations that were here the day he left. AH also said I am not a very nice person, to DS, to him, and other people--which was a surprise. I know I'm not perfect. I wonder if he really meant it. Maybe my resentments have made me not very nice, but I didn't think I treated DS that way, whom I've gotten into therapy, had sessions w/his therapist on how to help him, and made lots of progress with. I told AH that his sobriety isn't caused, cured, or controlled by me, and that I want to be supportive, and will try to be/do better.
I told AH that my boundary was that if he got back into drinking post-rehab, that I just can't live like that. DS feels the stress when AH is gone, but me being unhappy is a huge part of that, and DS got used to AH being gone to rehab. Thanks for letting me share this. I do go to Al-Anon, and read the literature, and rely a lot on the experience, strength, and hope here. Is this gaslighting? I want to be supportive, but I'm trying to build my own strength, and feel like I'm being called a horrible person for bailing on all this. But there has been no intimacy, and a lot of lying, for years.
Fast forward to Thursday night, two nights ago. I went out of town, and upon returning (my father was just put on hospice), I felt AH had been drinking. My BAC wasn't working, but my gut was. We had a fight. This morning, he admitted he'd been drinking, and he said he felt unsupported by me, that I never accept his feelings, and that his therapist did not recommend him coming back home. Well, I had asked his therapist about sober living in that meeting, and asked why they didn't recommend it, and she said he didn't need it. I guess after I became upset w/what he said about our communication, he was angry at that, and from there his therapist changed her tune about him coming home, which he obviously ignored. Again, my own therapist warned he would say anything to get back home with DS but that he needed to do his work on his own for at least a year.
So it feels like today I received a lot of blame for not supporting AH in getting sober. For never "accepting his feelings". I just didn't know how to help him, and I've been doing loving detachment. It's hard to smile around him, and be positive, with an ill parent, and watching him have to jump right back into work and temptations that were here the day he left. AH also said I am not a very nice person, to DS, to him, and other people--which was a surprise. I know I'm not perfect. I wonder if he really meant it. Maybe my resentments have made me not very nice, but I didn't think I treated DS that way, whom I've gotten into therapy, had sessions w/his therapist on how to help him, and made lots of progress with. I told AH that his sobriety isn't caused, cured, or controlled by me, and that I want to be supportive, and will try to be/do better.
I told AH that my boundary was that if he got back into drinking post-rehab, that I just can't live like that. DS feels the stress when AH is gone, but me being unhappy is a huge part of that, and DS got used to AH being gone to rehab. Thanks for letting me share this. I do go to Al-Anon, and read the literature, and rely a lot on the experience, strength, and hope here. Is this gaslighting? I want to be supportive, but I'm trying to build my own strength, and feel like I'm being called a horrible person for bailing on all this. But there has been no intimacy, and a lot of lying, for years.
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Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Nashville, Tennessee
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Hello, Clarity
"I told AH that my boundary was that if he got back into drinking post-rehab, that I just can't live like that."
Stick to your guns on this one, 100 percent. He had an opportunity to get drunk and he took it.
I've been sober for 21 years, and he's not ready to commit to sobriety. If he was serious about changing he would have attended an AA meeting while you were gone. He made his choice, to drink or not to drink, and he chose to drink. He wanted to get drunk more than he wanted to get sober.
"I told AH that my boundary was that if he got back into drinking post-rehab, that I just can't live like that."
Stick to your guns on this one, 100 percent. He had an opportunity to get drunk and he took it.
I've been sober for 21 years, and he's not ready to commit to sobriety. If he was serious about changing he would have attended an AA meeting while you were gone. He made his choice, to drink or not to drink, and he chose to drink. He wanted to get drunk more than he wanted to get sober.
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Join Date: Apr 2018
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I'm sorry, Clarity. I get it. Been there, done that and still dealing with these things. Having physical distance is important for me in rebuilding my life. I stopped by a lawyer's office three days ago. My Plan A lawyer that has been on hold as my gut and God signs keep pointing to staying with my plan B lawyer who's nearby. The office was under renovation, in beautiful stages of being put back together. It hit me hard and I could only smile as it felt so much like what my life is going through. Small moments like these create touchstones for me to revisit to keep the positive momentum going.
Trust your gut and your healthy instincts. You'll get through this and things will improve in many ways. ((((hugs))))
Trust your gut and your healthy instincts. You'll get through this and things will improve in many ways. ((((hugs))))
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Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 4,036
Where is the pressure coming from that you're a horrible person for wanting happiness in your home, family and life? Recognizing and naming these things can help put them in perspective. Taking new actions that are "in the solution" are where I find freedom from emotional weights that aren't mine to carry.
Things change all the time. It's necessary to know our own truth and take actions that honor this.
One day at a time. Small actions create big changes.
Things change all the time. It's necessary to know our own truth and take actions that honor this.
One day at a time. Small actions create big changes.
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Location: Chicago
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Clarity, the only person responsible for his recovery--or his lack thereof--is him.
I think you know this, but that you simply haven't had the time and distance from the situation we sometimes need to really accept it.
He can throw all the blame in the world your way but you do not have to catch it. He drank. That's on him. You don't want to live with that? Then it's on you to do something about it.
I think you know this, but that you simply haven't had the time and distance from the situation we sometimes need to really accept it.
He can throw all the blame in the world your way but you do not have to catch it. He drank. That's on him. You don't want to live with that? Then it's on you to do something about it.
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Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: California
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Hi clarity888, I just wanted to respond because the things he said to you sounded really similar to the things my AH said to me during our last conversation about his drinking. Very similar. The more I read the more I am beginning to understand that alcoholics blame those closest to them for their drinking problem - we aren't unique in this. And they develop an "external locus of control" which I understand to mean that they react to their external circumstances without really taking responsibility for their part in things. Blaming their SO and the relationship can be an excuse to drink I guess.
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Join Date: Nov 2016
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I'm sorry this isn't going so well clarity. Everyone hopes for the best when the addict attends treatment of any kind, however, as you know, addiction is a beast and things don't always work out.
How much support can one provide realistically? Not having a drink fest in the living room? Driving someone to an AA meeting?
Addiction is deep rooted and complicated. You are not his counsellor or his psychiatrist so I'm not sure how much you actually can do.
Taking any responsibility for his recovery leads to the blame game it seems and while the first part of your statement is spot on, the second part is a slippery slope. All you can be is yourself. Whether the break down in the relationship is one sided or everyone had a hand in it is irrelevant, it will take two to mend it. Does he show any inclination in doing that or is he just going to blame you and keep you on the back-foot? He's deflecting and he lied to your face and allowed an argument to happen because of that lie. That doesn't seem like relationship mending behaviour.
You are threatening his addiction, that's not a great position to be in. Personally I would ignore his "recovery" completely.
Your post brought a part of this article to mind:
You're not so pure yourself!
Following the adage that "the best defense is a good offense" the addict seeks to turn the tables and distract attention from himself by "attacking the attacker," i.e. the individual who attempts to point out to him the reality of his addictive behavior. Under the spur of necessity to defend their addiction as they are, most addicts possess a keen eye and a sharp tongue for the shortcomings and faults of others - even as they deny or are indifferent to those of themselves. Thus the addict is often almost demonically astute at exploiting the vulnerabilities and Achilles Heels of those who, wittingly or unwittingly, threaten the continuance of his addiction.
I'd be OK if it weren't for you!
The addict blames his addictive behavior on his significant other, usually his spouse. He feels resentful and self-pitying about the way he considers himself to be treated and uses this to justify his addiction. Since one of the commonest causes of resentment and self-pity in addicts is criticism by others of their addictive behavior, and since the characteristic response of the addict to such criticism is to escalate addictive behavior, this process tends to be self-perpetuating.
The addict is often quite cruel in highlighting, exaggerating and exploiting any and every defect or flaw the significant other may have, or even in fabricating them out of his own mind in order to justify and rationalize his own behavior.
http://www.bma-wellness.com/papers/Excuses_Alcoholics.html
How much support can one provide realistically? Not having a drink fest in the living room? Driving someone to an AA meeting?
I told AH that his sobriety isn't caused, cured, or controlled by me, and that I want to be supportive, and will try to be/do better
Taking any responsibility for his recovery leads to the blame game it seems and while the first part of your statement is spot on, the second part is a slippery slope. All you can be is yourself. Whether the break down in the relationship is one sided or everyone had a hand in it is irrelevant, it will take two to mend it. Does he show any inclination in doing that or is he just going to blame you and keep you on the back-foot? He's deflecting and he lied to your face and allowed an argument to happen because of that lie. That doesn't seem like relationship mending behaviour.
You are threatening his addiction, that's not a great position to be in. Personally I would ignore his "recovery" completely.
Your post brought a part of this article to mind:
You're not so pure yourself!
Following the adage that "the best defense is a good offense" the addict seeks to turn the tables and distract attention from himself by "attacking the attacker," i.e. the individual who attempts to point out to him the reality of his addictive behavior. Under the spur of necessity to defend their addiction as they are, most addicts possess a keen eye and a sharp tongue for the shortcomings and faults of others - even as they deny or are indifferent to those of themselves. Thus the addict is often almost demonically astute at exploiting the vulnerabilities and Achilles Heels of those who, wittingly or unwittingly, threaten the continuance of his addiction.
I'd be OK if it weren't for you!
The addict blames his addictive behavior on his significant other, usually his spouse. He feels resentful and self-pitying about the way he considers himself to be treated and uses this to justify his addiction. Since one of the commonest causes of resentment and self-pity in addicts is criticism by others of their addictive behavior, and since the characteristic response of the addict to such criticism is to escalate addictive behavior, this process tends to be self-perpetuating.
The addict is often quite cruel in highlighting, exaggerating and exploiting any and every defect or flaw the significant other may have, or even in fabricating them out of his own mind in order to justify and rationalize his own behavior.
http://www.bma-wellness.com/papers/Excuses_Alcoholics.html
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Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 66
Originally Posted by clarity888 
Hi everyone, I am back once again, after AH returned two weeks ago from 30 days inpatient rehab. During rehab, there was just one meeting with AH, me, and his therapist. The therapist asked him what was his biggest obstacle to staying sober once he goes home, and he said it was "our relationship, how he and I communicate". It felt like blaming at the time, and since this facility allowed phone communication for patients, I admitted I felt upset to him, later that night. He is also very upset that "I only called him twice while he was in rehab". I thought I was supposed to give him space to work on him. I went through a course 15 years ago, where you didn't talk to the outside world for a week, so that's part of where I got that. I didn't want him to feel I was controlling his recovery. And frankly, it's simply not true that I only called twice--he just says that only two of the calls were "just to see how he was doing"--which I still don't think is accurate.
Fast forward to Thursday night, two nights ago. I went out of town, and upon returning (my father was just put on hospice), I felt AH had been drinking. My BAC wasn't working, but my gut was. We had a fight. This morning, he admitted he'd been drinking, and he said he felt unsupported by me, that I never accept his feelings, and that his therapist did not recommend him coming back home. Well, I had asked his therapist about sober living in that meeting, and asked why they didn't recommend it, and she said he didn't need it. I guess after I became upset w/what he said about our communication, he was angry at that, and from there his therapist changed her tune about him coming home, which he obviously ignored. Again, my own therapist warned he would say anything to get back home with DS but that he needed to do his work on his own for at least a year.
So it feels like today I received a lot of blame for not supporting AH in getting sober. For never "accepting his feelings". I just didn't know how to help him, and I've been doing loving detachment. It's hard to smile around him, and be positive, with an ill parent, and watching him have to jump right back into work and temptations that were here the day he left. AH also said I am not a very nice person, to DS, to him, and other people--which was a surprise. I know I'm not perfect. I wonder if he really meant it. Maybe my resentments have made me not very nice, but I didn't think I treated DS that way, whom I've gotten into therapy, had sessions w/his therapist on how to help him, and made lots of progress with. I told AH that his sobriety isn't caused, cured, or controlled by me, and that I want to be supportive, and will try to be/do better.
I told AH that my boundary was that if he got back into drinking post-rehab, that I just can't live like that. DS feels the stress when AH is gone, but me being unhappy is a huge part of that, and DS got used to AH being gone to rehab. Thanks for letting me share this. I do go to Al-Anon, and read the literature, and rely a lot on the experience, strength, and hope here. Is this gaslighting? I want to be supportive, but I'm trying to build my own strength, and feel like I'm being called a horrible person for bailing on all this. But there has been no intimacy, and a lot of lying, for years.
Fast forward to Thursday night, two nights ago. I went out of town, and upon returning (my father was just put on hospice), I felt AH had been drinking. My BAC wasn't working, but my gut was. We had a fight. This morning, he admitted he'd been drinking, and he said he felt unsupported by me, that I never accept his feelings, and that his therapist did not recommend him coming back home. Well, I had asked his therapist about sober living in that meeting, and asked why they didn't recommend it, and she said he didn't need it. I guess after I became upset w/what he said about our communication, he was angry at that, and from there his therapist changed her tune about him coming home, which he obviously ignored. Again, my own therapist warned he would say anything to get back home with DS but that he needed to do his work on his own for at least a year.
So it feels like today I received a lot of blame for not supporting AH in getting sober. For never "accepting his feelings". I just didn't know how to help him, and I've been doing loving detachment. It's hard to smile around him, and be positive, with an ill parent, and watching him have to jump right back into work and temptations that were here the day he left. AH also said I am not a very nice person, to DS, to him, and other people--which was a surprise. I know I'm not perfect. I wonder if he really meant it. Maybe my resentments have made me not very nice, but I didn't think I treated DS that way, whom I've gotten into therapy, had sessions w/his therapist on how to help him, and made lots of progress with. I told AH that his sobriety isn't caused, cured, or controlled by me, and that I want to be supportive, and will try to be/do better.
I told AH that my boundary was that if he got back into drinking post-rehab, that I just can't live like that. DS feels the stress when AH is gone, but me being unhappy is a huge part of that, and DS got used to AH being gone to rehab. Thanks for letting me share this. I do go to Al-Anon, and read the literature, and rely a lot on the experience, strength, and hope here. Is this gaslighting? I want to be supportive, but I'm trying to build my own strength, and feel like I'm being called a horrible person for bailing on all this. But there has been no intimacy, and a lot of lying, for years.
he went to inpatient once and relapsed. we also only had one group counseling session because the rehab was about 90 minutes away, I had 2 jobs and a college student at the time. he of course got released early because he was doing such a good job. So, we just couldn't coordinate more than one visit for group. the promises he made us there could have been the foundation for a whole new life. But, he chose to drink.
"support" and "accepting his feelings" feel like mushy alcoholic excuse words to me. What is support? if you cant think of an "action" than....its a mushy undefinable word. kinda like when they say they'll "try". without a plan, trying is just.. vague intent.
if he says "you could support me by going to an open AA meeting with me once a month" (just for example)...great, this is actionable and you can decide if that's something you can do or not.
Lying is hard to get past as well and something I have experienced a lot. I'm also not sure I can ever get past it. hes probably forgotten most of the lies he has told, but I haven't. I feel like we need to start over from scratch (with no drinking) to have even a flicker of hope for a future. I think I have better chances to win the lottery.
That all being said, I am grateful to be living on my own. To have time and space and peace to process my feelings and my future future. We are able to talk to each other civilly and I have alot of life to live. we will figure this all out
anyway,anyway, thanks for giving a voice to something that's been on my mind as well.
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Clarity, I am the alcoholic whose drinking was the major cause for the marriage breakup. I speak with a little credibility being 3y sober. I agreed to all the conditions of my ex's divorce settlement, and as this wearying process drags on, leave my ex wife and 2 adult sons be, respecting their right to privacy and need for healing.
Now that is out of the way- I can see a lot of your partner's behaviours reflecting how I thought when actively drinking.
You are not responsible for his behaviours- and need to be, and feel safe. You also cannot spend your life in a holding pattern, waiting for his to turn the page on his boozing, only he can do that.
Addictions, be they booze or drugs or gambling- has only one rule. There are no rules. A true recovery has to be shown, over time- with evidence....I was an expert of appearing to do the right thing- where some legitimate excuse would see me doing promised actions - 'tomorrow'.
Any recovery cannot truly depend on family members for support- you have your own stuff to deal with and there is too much room for emotional trauma. For blaming and name calling. Blaming others was a mainstay in my self pity, which then turned into anger and accusing others for my problems... True recovery means having a plan in place, support from health professionals (for me- it is doing very hard work with a psychologist, health checks for my depression with GP, doing what the Burns Unit tell me- long story that, counsellor...plus meetings and using SR every day.
My prayers and support to you, my prayers to your family.
Now that is out of the way- I can see a lot of your partner's behaviours reflecting how I thought when actively drinking.
You are not responsible for his behaviours- and need to be, and feel safe. You also cannot spend your life in a holding pattern, waiting for his to turn the page on his boozing, only he can do that.
Addictions, be they booze or drugs or gambling- has only one rule. There are no rules. A true recovery has to be shown, over time- with evidence....I was an expert of appearing to do the right thing- where some legitimate excuse would see me doing promised actions - 'tomorrow'.
Any recovery cannot truly depend on family members for support- you have your own stuff to deal with and there is too much room for emotional trauma. For blaming and name calling. Blaming others was a mainstay in my self pity, which then turned into anger and accusing others for my problems... True recovery means having a plan in place, support from health professionals (for me- it is doing very hard work with a psychologist, health checks for my depression with GP, doing what the Burns Unit tell me- long story that, counsellor...plus meetings and using SR every day.
My prayers and support to you, my prayers to your family.
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Gosh, you all make good points. Thank you. I am sad that his therapist at the rehab allegedly told him not to go back home to us, since "I am not supportive". I guess though like you said Trailmix, what exactly can supportive even look like? Detachment for me has not meant that I smile much or interact much--though I was getting better at that day by day, in being more relaxed w/him. I waited five hours for him to leave and give some space, he had two places to go, but he passed out upstairs without a sleep apnea mask. He started yelling like he used to when drinking, nightmares I guess, so I found his mask in his suitcase and he finally understood what I was doing and that he was being loud. It scares me to think what he will do or not do with the mask, once we live apart. Can't binge drinking and untreated apnea kill you? Probably was due to him forgetting to unpack it (usually it's on the nightstand and he doesn't forget). Codie worrying, I know. But the sleep issues and nightmares are newer in the last year, and I believe that's later stage alcoholism, though it's very possible I'm way off base and worrying. I know I have to get out of his way. Thanks for the prayers and the insights, friends.
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Originally Posted by clarity888
Detachment for me has not meant that I smile much or interact much--though I was getting better at that day by day, in being more relaxed w/him.
Don't
Even
Think
About
Changing
Him
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Yes ma'am, he relayed it. I responded that perhaps his therapist was right. I do feel my gas can is empty and I even asked them both why sober living would not be in order. During this convo yesterday, I now know he was very drunk during it, and he said all sorts of things. Mainly it was "I don't get any credit for what I did for 30 days" and "you won't allow my feelings". I definitely know I seem hardened to him *at times*, but I also have asked him many, many times how he is doing, does he need to hit a meeting, etc.. He calls himself "the *sshole with the problem", and then conveys that I am not a very nice person for _____ reasons and that his therapist told him to tell me that. I am sure she encouraged him sharing from the heart. He denied drinking yesterday (he admitted to the day before while I was out of town), and tried to avoid the question, and passed out later clearly drunk, smelling of alcohol, glassy eyed--just more lying directly to my face. Which I know is the disease. He never went to his parents last night, he challenged me to make him leave, so I left for awhile because he would not stop arguing with me, saying "fine, I'll leave--be mad". On repeat--while he went to get "one more thing" before leaving (prob a swig of something). He disappeared this morning at 6 a.m..
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I am sure she encouraged him sharing from the heart.
I gently will suggest putting this thought aside. No one I've been around who's been through alcoholism recovery has said these things to an alcoholic in early recovery or active addiction.
I gently will suggest putting this thought aside. No one I've been around who's been through alcoholism recovery has said these things to an alcoholic in early recovery or active addiction.
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What exactly does "you won't allow my feelings" mean?
Well you have asked him to share, how is he doing, does he need a meeting etc - I going to guess that's not what he means at all.
I think translated he means you are not taking in to account his wanting to drink. He wants to drink and the ONLY reason he is having to stop is because you have said stop drinking or this relationship is done. You have left him no where to turn.
He wants credit for his 30 days because he wants time off to drink for "good behaviour". Interesting thinking.
You are applying logic to what he is saying to you when in fact there is no logic. Well there is alcoholic logic, so you need to run everything through that translator to understand what he is really saying.
Basically he did his 30 days and now he's going to drink.
Well you have asked him to share, how is he doing, does he need a meeting etc - I going to guess that's not what he means at all.
I think translated he means you are not taking in to account his wanting to drink. He wants to drink and the ONLY reason he is having to stop is because you have said stop drinking or this relationship is done. You have left him no where to turn.
He wants credit for his 30 days because he wants time off to drink for "good behaviour". Interesting thinking.
You are applying logic to what he is saying to you when in fact there is no logic. Well there is alcoholic logic, so you need to run everything through that translator to understand what he is really saying.
Basically he did his 30 days and now he's going to drink.
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so he's gone then? out of the house?
if so, GOOD. now don't let him back in. i don't care what he SAYS, what he pledges or promises, or anything else said with words. your house needs to be a sane, sober and safe place for your child and of course for you.
i noticed that you really seem bothered by what he SAYS the therapist SAID about you. and that the word support or supportive comes up a lot. we can get caught in the trap of thinking that we have some responsibility or culpability to help GET them sober and KEEP them sober. as if our actions will make all the difference.
not our circus.
not our monkeys.
he can go get sober at any time. he could have chose sobriety, yesterday or last year.
he.did.not.
if so, GOOD. now don't let him back in. i don't care what he SAYS, what he pledges or promises, or anything else said with words. your house needs to be a sane, sober and safe place for your child and of course for you.
i noticed that you really seem bothered by what he SAYS the therapist SAID about you. and that the word support or supportive comes up a lot. we can get caught in the trap of thinking that we have some responsibility or culpability to help GET them sober and KEEP them sober. as if our actions will make all the difference.
not our circus.
not our monkeys.
he can go get sober at any time. he could have chose sobriety, yesterday or last year.
he.did.not.
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I think you are both right, Trailmix and Anvil. The "credit for 30 days" does seem like saying "now I get to do what I want". He did mention his expectations of how I would support him during rehab were not met (my wording). Anvil, like you said, I am wrapped up in how my behaviors are labeled by AH and supposedly by his therapist. He is co-dependent on me as well, which he acknowledged and I could always see. He did fail to leave on Sat. while he was drunk all day, telling me how unkind I've been to him for years. So he came back yesterday morning (Sunday) and helped with some chores, and then said "it's not healthy for me here, so I am leaving to my parent's tonight". He also said it's best he live away from our home. I agree it's not healthy for either of us, but I am incredibly sad. He said "you're getting what you've always wanted, a divorce, which you've brought up 4 times in the past". I feel like him saying all of that is just trying to make it black and white, like he is a victim of me being b*tchy, and he is now saying "fine, I'm done with it". I don't know if I'm making sense, I could not sleep and am confused...shocked really...finding him so drunk.
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