thequest

How much responsibility should anyone have when they know a drinker will drive drunk? I'm not talking about a few times a year but weekly if not daily.

I've seen an alcoholic expect those rides with an unwieldy sense of entitlement and threaten not only to drive drunk but call anyone he pleases for a ride including sick or old relatives. To me that's a form of extortion and/or manipulation. He's also tried shaming by saying he'll walk for 3 hours if has to(and when he has complained bitterly about the physical consequences).

His chief enabler/designated driver has grown tired physically and mentally of his routine at least for now. Another enabler/facilitator who doesn't have to drive him says somebody should make sure he doesn't drive home drunk-not he should stop drinking or less but they think his drinking to the point of not being able to drive is normal for him(Oh he just likes to drink and/or go out) but this is weekly and at times daily.

Just a vent I guess but it seems like some alcoholics try to extort a ride for in exchange for public safety. Along for their own selfish desire to drink at a bar. Even if they're implying they'll drive drunk I think that's extortion.

Troubledone

This is definitely manipulative behavior. A normal person either pays for a cab or has some kind of reciprocal relationship with someone as designated driver.

But of course, it is easier and cheaper to go after a codependent so they don't have to do either of those things. The problem is that most of us codependents have hot buttons and if an addict/alcoholic can find the right button to push, bingo, they get what they want and continue their behavior.

I also have seen that most addicted people have a whole crew of enablers lined up and it can take years to cycle through enough people that they run out of enablers.

Each of us is responsible for our own contribution to public safety. And it's up to the cops to identify drunk drivers and deal with them.

The thing is, an alcoholic will use whatever "hook" they can ("poor me, I had to walk home" or "If I kill someone by driving drunk it's your fault"). But the reality is that if he gets picked up for drunk driving or has an accident, the cops are going to arrest him, not the person who was supposed to give him a ride.

I guess for me this might be one of those times where a codependent dealing with this might want to work the 12 steps and accept that they are powerless over this person, etc. And then simply pray that this alcoholic's higher power provides whatever circumstances are in his/her best interest.

Of course, if I knew he was driving drunk, I might call the police and tell them his license plate number and whereabouts - but even that is a little too "codependent" - trying to arrange outcomes.

So yes, this is a form of extortion - not using threats to get money - but threats to force people to provide a service that a responsible adult would handle themselves - especially when it happens so often.

Hoping you and others involved find clarity.

thequest

Funny you mention 'cycle through enablers' because in less than a decade he's been tossed out by several GFs and his close circle friends has changed just as much. He keeps a few older friends at arms length by his own admission because he might need a favor one day.

I was an enabler then one day I refused to give him a ride to a bar after a day of driving him around like a soccer mom. He went on a tirade. Then after he realized there would have to be absolutely no other alternatives or dire straits and that I and others would not be driving to him to bars. So to blatantly disguise his request to go to a bar he would have me and others drop him off in the middle of the day at a store, gym, bank fast food place etc. Then about 4-6 hours later someone would get a call saying he needed to be picked up yes at or near bar. He was very careful to spread out his 'requests'. To keep the peace in the family I wound up picking him a few times. He realized he was on borrowed time/just about out of good will so he conned a friend to let him have 24/7 use of a second vehicle(We're still working on that but he is a good manipulator and knows how to throw a pity party).

The troubling part here is that he has been able to fool or make allies with that other enabler that defends him. They are the oldest and should not be fooled by or accept his excuses. Probably because they like to drink/go out on the town and have an adult alcoholic child themselves that they seem so blissfully ignorant of.

The biggest problem with the new friends is that they get younger and younger with some literally half his age. They don't know any better and validate his drinking and visa versa. He's perpetuating his lifestyle like someone spreads a disease.

Maudcat

Ach, sorry. This is a tough one.
My experience has been that the alcohol addict hates to spend
on anything but booze, so taxis or Uber's are, by them, considered extraneous expenses, and If they can get people to drive them, it's all good.
In an ideal world, my addict sib would love it if I would drive him to his bank for drinking money, then to his store so he can re supply, then home.
Uh, no.
I drop him off at the bank, and from there he is on his own.
He lives in a small town, and he gets rides from people who know him.
But not from me.

thequest

You described it pretty accurately. The only thing he seems to gleefully spend money on besides drinks is clothing and even that's bar related. High fashion is part of his contrived image.

Maudcat

Interesting. My addict sib is exactly the opposite.
He looks like the worst rack ever of a thrift shop.

Ann

Luckily, my son never had a license or a car so I didn't have to deal with this.

I think if I knew a person who was drunk, ANY person who was drunk, was about to get behind the wheel, I would call the police pronto...and then let it unfold as it may. This would be to protect the innocents on the road, not the drunk. The drunk is already doing a pretty good job of destroying themselves.

For me, learning to not be manipulated took a lot of lessons...a LOT of lessons, but I learned and when I knew better, I did better.

Good luck with this. I pray nobody gets hurt, but especially the innocent sober drivers on the road with children in the car.

GreenChair

I agree that if I knew s/he was driving drunk, I'd call the police with auto and location info. I don't think that's being codependent. It's not helping the person who's driving; it's helping those who might be injured by that person. I would feel ashamed and guilty if I knew someone was driving drunk, did nothing about it, and then learned they'd injured or killed someone!

About Uber and Lyft -- I know a driver who suffered a head injury when friends of a drunk arranged a ride for that person. He got into the car, and then as they were driving couldn't quite reconcile where he was or why he was in this person's car, and physically assaulted the driver. So I don't recommend putting someone who is drunk to that degree into a hired car -- you're just endangering that driver! Let them walk or let the cops pick them up.

BriarSkye

You are right, of course an alcoholic/addict is an extortionist.
They can't be honest about anything because they can't be honest about the number 1
most important thing in their lives. The drink and/or drug is the most important thing.

Thesaurus
Extortion

nounblackmail; cheating
Synonyms for extortion

coercion
fraud
shakedown
theft
arm
badger
bite
compulsion
demand
exaction
force
oppression
payoff
payola
pressure
protection
racket
rapacity
shake
squeeze
stealing
swindle

hopeful4

I personally would say happy walking and don't answer when he calls. If he drives himself, call the police.

That's just my two cents!

Jiggs

Our son is an addict, drugs, alcohol, mouthwash, it doesn't matter to him. He was on one.of his usual week long benders just before Christmas a couple of years ago. We were of course hosting Christmas and the rest of our children and their significant others were all coming out.

AJ called demanding a ride to our place and we told him very clearly that the rule that he only visits when sober stands. In other words no. Well a few hours later we hear a car skidding to a stop and our front door bursts open.

Its winter, snowing and below zero. There's AJ stoned out of his mind wearing a t shirt, one shoe and no socks. He couldn't even put two words together. My wife put him to bed and he slept for the next two days, missing Christmas entirely.

I still don't know how but thank god that he didn't kill anyone.

When he sobered up we told him if he ever showed up like that again the police would be dealing with him.

A couple of weeks later he wrapped his car around a hydro pole. He wasn't injured but was charged and lost his license, he was high.

Fortunately for the motoring public he can t and probably never will be able to afford a car again, and will probably never have a license either.

I was a cop for 35 years and he knows better but being an addict he is selfish and only thinks about himself. The consequences of his actions are of zero concern to him no matter what the situation may be.
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Jiggs

....just as an add on, everyone has a degree of responsibility ensuring that someone impaired doesn't get behind the wheel whether that's hiding the keys and/or calling the authorities who do have more powers to stop such an individual from driving.

You however are not obligated into being their personal chauffeur or taxi cab. No one, including the police or the courts, would ever assume otherwise. We are talking about adults who are making choices and the courts have made it very clear that being an addict or alcoholic does not allow you an excuse for making the wrong choices. Being an addict or alcoholic does not relieve you of your responsibilities.

In the case of my son had I known that he was going to drive the 30 miles to our house while impaired I would've dropped a dime to local law enforcement in a heartbeat to stop him. After witnessing the injury, death and destruction caused by impaired driving for over 3 decades I wouldn't hesitate to turn in anyone and I hope everyone else would do the same thing.

Ann

Thanks for your input, Jiggs, as a retired police officer you have a clearer view of this than many of us and have seen first hand the destruction.

I think letting the police know is trying to affect the outcome only in that it may save the lives of other innocents on the road. If I saw anyone anywhere getting into a car to drive drunk or stoned...there is no doubt in my mind that I would make that call.

Sometimes I tend to "over think" what should be a logical and life saving decision.