Epictetus

Hi,

So the AV that I have read referenced here is that supposedly the inner dialogue that you have with yourself when you convince yourself to drink or use despite having previously gone through the ringer and (honestly) swearing off numerous times?

Strategies for recognizing and dealing with? Where does this come from? unresolved issues? inner child?

Snowydelrico

There’s a quote from mark maron. Im finding it hard to manage the monster I created to protect my inner kid.

The addictive part of my brain stirs up excitement when I am offered a prescription drug for instance. Now there’s something wrong there I tell myself.
So I ask a my sister and she doesn’t feel the same way when she is offered them.

It can start by doing old routines , working hard in the day to finish early. Why?
To get a drink of course. I have to question myself why am I doing this action, what purpose does it serve. This questioning is I suppose a form of mindfulness an it helps me then enjoy the moment as I begin to form a new path. A healthy one, by doing the next right thing.

I think the AV comes from being dependent/addicted to alcohol/substances . Not from anything else. When the brain has learned how to become addicted it then it cannot unlearn it.

The way forward is to use your brain to form and learn another pathway away from addiction.

all this why can’t I have fun, I’m better when I’ve had a couple, etc is all born of addiction. A false world if you like. All a lie.
Hard to take in at first and very scary.
That’s why the ‘leap of faith’ is needed. Believe you can do it, what ever it takes.

Take care.
Hope I haven’t rambled too much.

Oh play the tape forward always helps.
9 mins of cravings
Then be on guard for when it comes back

Dee74

Its become shorthand here for any alcoholic thinking or rationalisation, but the concept itself comes from the Rational Recovery method originally.

I can't link to it cos it's a commercial site by our rules, but I'd google 'Crash Course on AVRT' (Addictive Voice Recognition Technique) if you want to know more.

D

Epictetus

I actually have the book Rational Recovery but I've not read it. It's collecting dust like the other books I have on the subject. I've tried to reread Allan Carr's book but I'm not sure if I can't concentrate or I'm simply finding it boring. Perhaps I'll give the Rational Recovery one a go today if the AV comes from that.

I'm reading Charles Bukowski at the moment. Initially put it off as was concerned as he is obviously a fan of booze and drinking is a theme throughout the book. However, it's having the effect on me of seeing drinking for what it is, tiring. Very tiring and all consuming habit.

Ok so from what was said, the av is every time I manage to change my mind or convince myself or justify or rationalise or find an excuse. That's the part that has left me perplexed at times so getting to the root of that is key.

I thought it was related to inner child issues.

Meddles

I had no idea what the 'AV' was until about two weeks ago (I'm 21 days sober today) and I started opening up for help and listening to people, and reading what people had to share.
For me personally, when I became aware of it, I started to question my decisions and behaviours and what the intention is behind it. Recovery now dominates my life, and I always ask myself these questions on a daily basis:
Who am I meeting with? Will I be able to leave easily if I need to? Am I putting myself at risk by being in that location or with those people? Am I putting my recovery first? Have I done something towards my recovery today? Do I have some chocolate in my bag in case I get hungry?
I relapsed several times previously, but now I put recovery before everything else, and everyday I have things I do towards it. For me it's working. I feel calmer, and the AV is slowly getting less. Don't get me wrong it's still very much there and probably will be forever, but it's definitely getting easier to manage!

Epictetus

Good way of looking at things Meddles.

Probably a good idea for me to frame my day like that. Sobriety as the overall frame and priority. I've been without doubt putting other goals or issues as more important. But then this thing has a tendency to pull everything else down to the ground and destroy all in its path.

We'll be moving house within the next few weeks and so we are searching right now, which has become all consuming and the "priority" along with work. Perhaps that was an opportunity for the av ("hey moving is a pain....fresh start in the new place?!!").

Guener

I have not taken the time to find the origins and explanations of AV, I read other people's use of it here and adopted it as such. And when I hear that voice it's clearly recognizable, though sometimes it starts quite subtly. When it comes I shut it down by remembering how I got here or by playing the tape forward, and I recognize it as irrational and a threat. It's not one of the thoughts that I put aside to examine at a later time, like I will do with other troubling ideas that may come into my mind, I treat it like a dangerous bug that has to be put outside the house. I'm not long enough in my recovery to calmly examine my AV with a cool head.

PennyLane76

Dee mentioned Crash course on AVRT . I found that very very helpful. The main thing to remember is AV's only goal is to kill you. I did a lot of arguing with it in early sobriety, was furious at it! That helped me a lot somedays just to yell and curse at it! . Ultimately as time goes on you will find ignoring it is what kills it. That was my process with AV anyway. The Alan Carr book triggered me, it made me anxious..

DriGuy

It's like a dialog you have with yourself, but it doesn't seem like a dialog until you become introspective enough to recognize it as such. Early in my alcoholism, I saw no dialog taking place, I just had reasons to drink, and I acted on them.

The operative words here for me are "Recognition Technique."

AVRT tries to provide a technique to help you focus your attention on RECOGNIZING the rationalizations, falsehoods, and general bull$hit we feed ourselves and to separate that from logical reality. This is part of introspection and personal growth.

Example: Once you recognize that you cannot drink like a normal person, you recognize that as your personal reality. Now after a few months or year of sobriety, where you have been feeling and acting like a normal person, you AV says, "Hey you are now normal," which you are, except for the reality that you know from past experience that you cannot drink normally. The AV then says, "Go ahead. Have a few drinks. You can do it. You're normal."

See how that becomes a sort of dialog? Everyone has these sorts conflicts where inner voices (not necessarily voices, but more like thoughts) compete with reality on a daily basis. Some of those conflicts are harmless. Others can be dangerous.

AVRT, psychotherapy, and logic all attempt to bring ourselves face to face with our own erring perspectives, rationalizations, and falsehoods. When you see these thoughts for what they are, you can choose not to act on them. If you don't recognize them, you buy in to them and often act against your own self interests.

Recognizing them becomes the key, and I think people who fail after a year of sobriety often do so because they are not willing to recognize these fallacies expressed by the so called AV. Recondition pains the ego and grandiose self perceptions we like to have about ourselves.

At least that's my current interpretation of the dynamics of AVRT, subject to change of course.

PeacefulWater12

For me it was about learning that my thoughts were not reality. Also learning that I did not have to act on them.

Not just in regards alcohol drinking, everything in life. I learnt to PAUSE! I used to automatically act on whatever nonsense floated through my mind!

Has made my life a lot better.

DriGuy

That in a nutshell is what I took so many paragraphs to explain (because I always tend to get carried away).

As you point out, the technique applies to everything in life. I would say we are bombarded by these dialogs on numerous issues on a daily basis. Sometimes we don't even know the dialogs are taking place, and we just act without thinking.

Tetrax

Yeah I remember his descriptions of being hideously hungover at his Postal Service job. Vivid and off-putting!

PalmerSage

The biggest mistake I made with my AV is engaging with it - meaning the opposite of what PeacefulWater posted so succinctly above. My AV would "suggest" a drink as a fine idea, and rather than firmly shutting it down, I would follow it down the path of romanticizing drinking. I have to shut it down at the first whisper.

DriGuy

lol; That's the AV followed by another AV and then another. Instead of testing the first AV against reality, we end up engaging the the first AV with more nonsense, and then we end up with a conversation between several AVs, while happily ignoring reality.

In the mental fog we often operate under, it seems like a reasonable conversation, rather than the jumble of half thoughts strung together with leaps of logic that it really is.

Epictetus

A virus that pops up in the Mind OS

Zap it and perhaps reframe it. I suppose it takes practice and eventually it becomes second nature.

biminiblue

Epictetus, there is a whole subforum devoted to AVRT, here is the link

Permanent Abstinence Based Recovery

There are a few threads pinned to the top of that forum that are informative and well worth reading.

tomsteve

theres a sub forum here on AVRT that may be able to help ya.
https://www.soberrecovery.com/forums...ased-recovery/

Epictetus

A little tricky. There's dialogue going on. I tend to introspect. Contrary to the cliché that "speaking to yourself is the first sign of madness", I reckon it's essential if critical thinking and reflection is to take place.

Really need to get back into meditation. It's funny how much time is spent working on the physical and yet often very little time devoted to training the mind. The operating system that runs the show. Meditation was extremely useful before, working on being aware of distractions to the practice and bringing yourself back to the now.

I have related the misadventures to the unhealed inner child running amok; the little brat. I'll read the links and see is it on the same lines. I read a book on acoa and she mentioned one trait is compulsive behavior and acting it out (once you get it in to your head). So techniques to curb that sort of reckless abandon would work a treat

Meddles

Tailai